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Intel Confirms: Macs to switch to ARM by 2020.

ARM Computers yes/no?  

319 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you buy an ARM computer as a daily driver?

    • No, thank you
      91
    • Yes please!
      21
    • Let's see the performance figures first - we need more information.
      134
    • as long as all my programs will work, sure, that's really what matters nowadays.
      73


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Posted · Original PosterOP
21 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

But I used to always run it in a VM. So, I suppose I misunderstood the term 'Hackintosh', it's not running a Type 2 Hyper-V Virtualisation of Mac OS with something like VMware Workstation or Oracle Virtualbox but rather, actually booting into Mac OS.

Yeah pretty much. Although I suppose this opens up a new avenue, perhaps a mackintosh Chromebook?

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My guess, IF this is actually happening (rather than Apple simply dropping intel…which could also mean AMD for the next generation), based on what they've done with recent computers, is that we would see 2 processors for the next generation of Pro Macs.  

 

They've actually already been doing this with their T2 chips being similar to partial A chips mainly just containing the secure enclaves and IO/encryption cores, so simply making that (or similar with an actual A chip) in the next generation of "Pro" machines, would allow for full use of both platforms, full future development for/on everything, full compatibility with existing software on both platforms, and in a "pro" space where price is less of a concern for folks.

 

I'd guess then that we'd see a delayed refresh of the more entry level macs such as the MacBook, MacBook Air, Mac mini, and base iMac…then moving to the Arm based chip line down the road.

 

Note: Macs can currently run iOS code in the development environment, and Apple has long been working on merging the APIs such as in CoreUI for mouse/touch and automatically doing something appropriate from the same call based on what is being used.  So, just that they want the same app to run in both places really isn't surprising, nor requiring the chip change.  It isn't like most apps get written in assembly anymore, so the compiler can easily handle making a universal app.

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46 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

wonder if they're still going to support booting windows on an ARM Mac by then ._.

 

also don't think they'll be replacing the entire mac lineup with ARM CPUs exclusively. unless they can get workstation programs to work equally as well

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-performance/page2.html

Windows 10S has to support Apple’s in-house chips first before it can run on Bootcamp but I doubt Apple will allow it. Back in Mac OS X Tiger for Intel, Bootcamp can only run on Intel-based Macs and it’s Apple way to convince PC users that they can get their stuff working on a Mac. 

 

Also, part of me wants Apple to bring back the 2008 polycarbonate MacBook. 


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3 hours ago, Geography said:

So... I guess RISC is the future?

 

I mean RISC has many benefits over CISC, and if a big company like Apple is pushing it, then maybe we'll have ARM CPUs in our desktops in the near future.

You can take the x86 instruction set (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_instruction_listings), and implement your own CPU datapath, say in Verilog/VHDL. Heck you could do it in RISC if you really wanted to.

 

If Intel did that to their chips while maintaining binary compatibility, I wouldn't doubt it so much either.


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1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

wonder if they're still going to support booting windows on an ARM Mac by then ._.

Windows can run on ARM, but it would be up to Microsoft to ensure that it runs well. Which MS is not going to do. 


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Remember people, that Apple is going to test out ARM based MacBooks with the fanless 12" MacBook. The MacBook Airs and Pros will continue to ship with x86 until Apple feels that their ARM implementation has more to offer than tradition x86. 

 

We might also see hybrid MacBook Pros with ARM and x86 capabilities on the same system. That technically already exists with the current TouchBar Macs and the T2 chip. 


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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

ARM have at least a decade long developmental path before they are anywhere near workstation/server suitable.

https://www.marvell.com/server-processors/thunderx2-arm-processors/

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-ec2-instances-a1-powered-by-arm-based-aws-graviton-processors/


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I wonder what will happen to the performance of all the steam games on OSX. It has already suffered because they are not allowing Nvidia/AMD to ship drivers with modern versions of openGL and Vulkan.

 

There are millions of active OSX users on steam.

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QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

and?

yes very good rebuttal of the presented evidence to the contrary of your quote. well done


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@S w a t s o n that was a serious "and",  The best arm super computer is only 2.2 petaflops (theoretical because they still have software issues that makes direct comparisons hard,  it is ranked 205 in the top 500.  Fujistu boast a 1000 petaflop computer based on arm by 2022, but that is like 4 years away. I don;t think it is unreasonable to look at current progress (especially with current software) and see it taking a decade before we see any real competition.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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Just now, mr moose said:

@S w a t s o n that was a serious "and",  The best arm super computer is only 2.2 petaflops (theoretical because they still have software issues that makes direct comparisons hard,  it is ranked 205 in the top 500.  Fujistu boast a 1000 petaflop computer based on arm by 2022, but that is like 4 years away. I don;t think it is unreasonable to look at current progress (especially with current software) and see it taking a decade before we see any real competition.

I dont recall you saying supercomputer. Your quote was suitable for workstation and server and it's clearly being used in commercial server applications so?


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This is the second time Apple moved to a much higher efficiency architecture. (PowerPC->x86(64)->ARM)

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10 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

I dont recall you saying supercomputer. Your quote was suitable for workstation and server and it's clearly being used in commercial server applications so?

Your first link was to ARM processors primarily being used in HP computer clusters like Astra.    Can you link me to a workstation running Arm? can you show me a company that is likely to have a consumer workstation capable of running today's productivity software?  Maybe you can tell me when they are likely to be released en mass and not like the current R+D units. 

 

It still seems there is a long time between current units and an end use that threatens Intel/AMD x86 in server/worksations.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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I feel like this is going to cause a lot of compatibility issues, maybe if they have some sort of x86 emulation it'll be okay but only for some apps.


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A specialised ARM core, with certain x86 instructions implemented at the hardware level, could possibly handle the majority of normal use cases. But, I don't know if such is allowed (ARM and x86 licensing limitations). Apple would have to go through both ARM and Intel to get that to work. Otherwise, x66/AMD64 instructions would have to be emulated, which tends to impact performance to a notable degree. Perhaps the x86_64 applications will be cross compiled from x86 to ARM. Either that, or the applications will have to be rewritten - which will be a pain. Perhaps Cocoa will play a large part?

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Apple's best bet if they want to go the ARM route is to not fuck up the launch of it, and they can avoid that by bringing in major programs into the ARM ecosystem, namely Microsoft Office and the Adobe suite.

They need to take a good look at the most popular applications on macOS and go from there.


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Just now, imreloadin said:

inb4 Apple tries to make people pay $1,200+ for laptops with cell phone CPUs xD

 

 

well... if it sells.. why not? 

 

😛 


If it is not broken, let's fix till it is. 

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2 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

inb4 Apple tries to make people pay $1,200+ for laptops with cell phone CPUs xD

Honestly, and I don't mean this in a bashing way, if Apple could sell beefier variants of what's found on iPads, I'm sure it'd make a killing, so long as the performance was there.


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1 minute ago, imreloadin said:

the sheep will be fleeced...

I've always had a problem with people hating apple for the price,  Not recommending it for the price is one thing, but actually hating a company because they can charge more has never really made any sense to me.   If I could charge more for my services and not actually do anything better than the competition I would have it made.

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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For my daily driver: no. I would lose access to all of my games, certain proprietary software like e.g. FPGA-dev environment, plus I have some peripherals that have drivers only for x86/x64 Windows. That said, aside from those I mentioned, I wouldn't have any problem running an ARM-based computer; most of the software I use is F/OSS and already runs beautifully on ARM-based devices, and I already have a closet full of ARM-based computers!


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Just now, mr moose said:

I've always had a problem with people hating apple for the price,  Not recommending it for the price is one thing, but actually hating a company because they can charge more has never really made any sense to me.   If I could charge more for my services and not actually do anything better than the competition I would have it made.

 

 

Oh I'm not hating on Apple, if they can get away with it then good for them.

I'm hating on the plebs who pay out the ass for the stuff xD

A fool and his money are easily parted is how the saying goes right?

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