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robotsalad

Spectrum in Wisconsin Business Internet

14 hours ago, robotsalad said:

Okay, cool. Unfortunately the DIA speeds are slower than the faster internet even during times where we weren't getting the full amount we were paying for. ISPs should sort this out so it actually makes sense for people to use DIA.

The value (mbps per $) of DIA connections are pretty bad at low bandwidth commits, but it gets a lot cheaper per mbps as you purchase more bandwidth (pricing also becomes more negotiable). Plus, they'll offer speeds that aren't available at consumer tiers. At low bandwidth commits, DIA connections are noticeably more expensive because of the SLA that's offered. It's basically just as difficult (or easy) for an ISP to meet its advertised SLA for a 50mbps connection as it is for a 5gbps connection. Support is also the other reason; you might have a dedicated account manager that you communicate with when paying for a DIA, versus dealing with the normal call centers that SMB grade cable/fiber internet provides. Although you did mention that you spoke with people who weren't very knowledgeable, but maybe it would be even worse with SMB grade internet. 

 

I did mention that some people have more advanced requirements. Such has needing a lot of IPv4 address space or advertising your own PI IPv4 space (IPs that you own outright, or lease from someone else). Or accepting customer BGP advertisements so it can be used in tandem with another connection from another ISP for redundancy and more optimized internet routing. 

 

Just because the advantages of a DIA connection aren't important to you doesn't mean there aren't companies out there that rely those features/advantages and are whiling to pay a lot more for them. If those differences don't seem useful or necessary for you, that's why ISPs still offer SMB grade internet, go for that.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

We are currently paying $420 for 23-24 Mb/s (up and down i believe). It is fiber optic but what is the point if the speeds are so slow?

 

Called to see about increasing internet speed. Spent 30 minutes on hold not including the 3 minutes it took to get transferred to the right office.

50 Mb/s - $599 before taxes and fees
100 Mb/s - $899 before taxes and fees

888-812-2591

 

Is this standard for business internet? And why do they push fiber optic so much when the speeds are so much slower than available consumer plans from the same company? I get 200 Mb/s for $70 a month at home and they offer up to 500 Mb/s.

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Home internet usually has restrictions with hosting high traffic servers, among other things, and doesn't have any guarantee of uptime where business class doesn't have those restrictions and in most cases comes with a guarantee of uptime, support turn around times, etc.


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2 minutes ago, robotsalad said:

We are currently paying $420 for 23-24 Mb/s (up and down i believe). It is fiber optic but what is the point if the speeds are so slow?

 

Called to see about increasing internet speed. Spent 30 minutes on hold not including the 3 minutes it took to get transferred to the right office.

50 Mb/s - $599 before taxes and fees
100 Mb/s - $899 before taxes and fees

888-812-2591

 

Is this standard for business internet? And why do they push fiber optic so much when the speeds are so much slower than available consumer plans from the same company? I get 200 Mb/s for $70 a month at home and they offer up to 500 Mb/s.

Your upload is definitely slower at home, though (I'm assuming it's cable).


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Also you get some technical assistance perks as well. Little to no wait time on the phone and they will send techs out the same day.

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2 hours ago, robotsalad said:

We are currently paying $420 for 23-24 Mb/s (up and down i believe). It is fiber optic but what is the point if the speeds are so slow?

 

Called to see about increasing internet speed. Spent 30 minutes on hold not including the 3 minutes it took to get transferred to the right office.

50 Mb/s - $599 before taxes and fees
100 Mb/s - $899 before taxes and fees

888-812-2591

 

Is this standard for business internet? And why do they push fiber optic so much when the speeds are so much slower than available consumer plans from the same company? I get 200 Mb/s for $70 a month at home and they offer up to 500 Mb/s.

Firstly Fiber generally is symmetrical, most cable co's cant do past 45 Mbps on Upload on Coax. Secondly Residential internet has restrictions, for example running internet facing servers is a no no, secondly large data use is also a no no. Even paying for unlimited data on Comcast, customers have gotten calls around 10TB telling them they need to move to a business plan. 

 

The fact is I dont have Spectrum, Comcast does have business class internet on Coax, its still costs more money than the residential plans for a slower speed, but they figure, your a business and you will pay. Spectrum might not offer business plans on Coax, who knows. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 2/27/2019 at 4:16 PM, ThatFlashCat said:

Your upload is definitely slower at home, though (I'm assuming it's cable).

I get 11 to 15 upload at home all the time, so not that much slower..

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 2/27/2019 at 6:34 PM, Daimaou said:

Also you get some technical assistance perks as well. Little to no wait time on the phone and they will send techs out the same day.

This is definitely not true as you can see by the original post I spent 30 minutes on hold.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

All in all, seems like a pretty easy thing to keep fiber networks up especially for customers with such low bandwidth. Absolute shake-down. "pay us 450 dollars or be a shame something should happen to your internet connection sometimes"

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6 hours ago, robotsalad said:

All in all, seems like a pretty easy thing to keep fiber networks up especially for customers with such low bandwidth. Absolute shake-down. "pay us 450 dollars or be a shame something should happen to your internet connection sometimes"

While Comcast provides business services over Coax, its still shitty like this, you pay a lot more for slower speeds then the residential users. Its because they expect that you will use it more. Also you should see if your provider has a SLA (Service Level Agreement) with you, because if they guarantee a certain up time on service they tend to charge a lot more as well. Your only choice is to see what another provider can do. Just remember your not going to be getting the "Good deal" you would get on residential service. As a business owner you just have to bend over and take it, its not just internet service that is more expensive, every thing is more expensive when your a business. 

 

Fiber is the way of the future as it can handle the bandwidth needs for the foreseeable future. Hell even the standard cable networks have lots of Fiber used in them. Cox, WOW, Comcast, Charter, etc all use Fiber to the node on there Coax network. Because they need to meet the bandwidth demands of today's world. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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On 2/27/2019 at 2:12 PM, robotsalad said:

We are currently paying $420 for 23-24 Mb/s (up and down i believe). It is fiber optic but what is the point if the speeds are so slow?

 

Called to see about increasing internet speed. Spent 30 minutes on hold not including the 3 minutes it took to get transferred to the right office.

50 Mb/s - $599 before taxes and fees
100 Mb/s - $899 before taxes and fees

888-812-2591

 

Is this standard for business internet? And why do they push fiber optic so much when the speeds are so much slower than available consumer plans from the same company? I get 200 Mb/s for $70 a month at home and they offer up to 500 Mb/s.

Yes, those prices are normal for DIA (Dedicated Internet Access) connections. The cost is significantly more because the ISP expects you to utilize the bandwidth you pay for (so it can't oversubscribe to the extent it does for residential or small business connections). In addition, you probably get better customer support, more included IPs, an SLA, flexible billing and plan options (such as being billed by 95th percentile, unmetered or pay as you go), and support for customer BGP advertisements (so you can multi-home with connections from other ISPs and/or use your own provider independent IP space). You will probably notice that DIA connections will commonly use metro Ethernet over fiber instead of the PON based fiber that you get with residential and small business grade fiber (such as AT&T Gigapower, Verizon FiOS, and Google Fiber) which means that your connection to the ISP shouldn't be contended (however, after it reaches the ISP, speeds are no longer guaranteed). 

 

For reference, here's AT&T's list prices (actual prices may vary depending on location): https://www.business.att.com/products/dedicated-internet.html


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On 3/4/2019 at 12:51 PM, robotsalad said:

This is definitely not true as you can see by the original post I spent 30 minutes on hold.

Tech support call Vs wanting to upgrade your service (sales) are 2 different things.

If you are telling me sat on hold for 30 minutes before ever speaking to a tech support rep to fix a technical issue then yes that is a problem.

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Business Internet Services usually come with a few perks:

  • Dedicated support with lower phone queues
  • SLA
  • static IP
  • No private IP NAT bullcrap
  • The ability to set a PTR
  • Better IP reputation since the consumer ranges usually are blacklisted
  • Higher Upload
  • Most consumer lines have a connection limit of around 1000(?) consecutive sessions
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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 3/5/2019 at 3:30 AM, Cree340 said:

Yes, those prices are normal for DIA (Dedicated Internet Access) connections. The cost is significantly more because the ISP expects you to utilize the bandwidth you pay for (so it can't oversubscribe to the extent it does for residential or small business connections). In addition, you probably get better customer support, more included IPs, an SLA, flexible billing and plan options (such as being billed by 95th percentile, unmetered or pay as you go), and support for customer BGP advertisements (so you can multi-home with connections from other ISPs and/or use your own provider independent IP space). You will probably notice that DIA connections will commonly use metro Ethernet over fiber instead of the PON based fiber that you get with residential and small business grade fiber (such as AT&T Gigapower, Verizon FiOS, and Google Fiber) which means that your connection to the ISP shouldn't be contended (however, after it reaches the ISP, speeds are no longer guaranteed). 

 

For reference, here's AT&T's list prices (actual prices may vary depending on location): https://www.business.att.com/products/dedicated-internet.html

Okay, cool. Unfortunately the DIA speeds are slower than the faster internet even during times where we weren't getting the full amount we were paying for. ISPs should sort this out so it actually makes sense for people to use DIA.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 6:21 PM, Acedia said:

Business Internet Services usually come with a few perks:

  • Dedicated support with lower phone queues
  • SLA
  • static IP
  • No private IP NAT bullcrap
  • The ability to set a PTR
  • Better IP reputation since the consumer ranges usually are blacklisted
  • Higher Upload
  • Most consumer lines have a connection limit of around 1000(?) consecutive sessions

Well the internet we had before this was (a still slow) 100 Mb/s and it was business internet, which should still include all of these perks.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 3:24 PM, Daimaou said:

Tech support call Vs wanting to upgrade your service (sales) are 2 different things.

If you are telling me sat on hold for 30 minutes before ever speaking to a tech support rep to fix a technical issue then yes that is a problem.

I don't see how those are different? Perhaps it would have been an emergency to upgrade the internet. Either way the first few people I spoke to were not technical support people they were billing people. Going to switch back from fiber optic soon though actually so I'm happy about that.

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On 3/5/2019 at 4:24 PM, Daimaou said:

Tech support call Vs wanting to upgrade your service (sales) are 2 different things.

If you are telling me sat on hold for 30 minutes before ever speaking to a tech support rep to fix a technical issue then yes that is a problem.

Worked at a call center once. One of the guys I worked with said when he worked at a Comcast call center, they considered every call a sales call. Oh your shit dont work? How about you upgrade to such and such. I guess this is why they have the worst customer service scores out of any provider. 

 

On 3/5/2019 at 7:21 PM, Acedia said:

Business Internet Services usually come with a few perks:

  • Dedicated support with lower phone queues
  • SLA
  • static IP
  • No private IP NAT bullcrap
  • The ability to set a PTR
  • Better IP reputation since the consumer ranges usually are blacklisted
  • Higher Upload
  • Most consumer lines have a connection limit of around 1000(?) consecutive sessions

Depends on what type of business internet. For example Comcast business class (Coax) does include some of these. For example SLA's from my understanding dont happen. Static IP's might cost extra. And the upload speeds I think are the same if not slower. Hell, Business class internet tends to get slower speeds for a higher price. Though you do get a different tech support line to call. Of course this is on Coax not on Fiber (Metro Ethernet). The only plus to Comcast business class is no data caps. But I think you are kinda forced to use their gateway, especially if you have static IP's. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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Posted · Best Answer
14 hours ago, robotsalad said:

Okay, cool. Unfortunately the DIA speeds are slower than the faster internet even during times where we weren't getting the full amount we were paying for. ISPs should sort this out so it actually makes sense for people to use DIA.

The value (mbps per $) of DIA connections are pretty bad at low bandwidth commits, but it gets a lot cheaper per mbps as you purchase more bandwidth (pricing also becomes more negotiable). Plus, they'll offer speeds that aren't available at consumer tiers. At low bandwidth commits, DIA connections are noticeably more expensive because of the SLA that's offered. It's basically just as difficult (or easy) for an ISP to meet its advertised SLA for a 50mbps connection as it is for a 5gbps connection. Support is also the other reason; you might have a dedicated account manager that you communicate with when paying for a DIA, versus dealing with the normal call centers that SMB grade cable/fiber internet provides. Although you did mention that you spoke with people who weren't very knowledgeable, but maybe it would be even worse with SMB grade internet. 

 

I did mention that some people have more advanced requirements. Such has needing a lot of IPv4 address space or advertising your own PI IPv4 space (IPs that you own outright, or lease from someone else). Or accepting customer BGP advertisements so it can be used in tandem with another connection from another ISP for redundancy and more optimized internet routing. 

 

Just because the advantages of a DIA connection aren't important to you doesn't mean there aren't companies out there that rely those features/advantages and are whiling to pay a lot more for them. If those differences don't seem useful or necessary for you, that's why ISPs still offer SMB grade internet, go for that.


My Build : Intel i7-9700K - Asus Strix Z390-E - 32GB Vengeance RGB

- Nvidia Titan Xp - 1TB Samsung 960 Evo SSD - Corsair AX860i Power Supply

 

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