Jump to content

Microsoft employees protest against Hololens military contract

30 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I'll introduce you to the idea that anyone selling weapons to any country is anti human.

What if you're selling guns so a country or what ever place so they can defend themselves from evil intruders? You know, like in WWII and USA sending aid to the UK. There are plenty of times to support a particular people. Plenty of times people make mistakes and give aid to the wrong people though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Or in developing counter-agents to chemical weapons.

I thought the phrase "the prevention of their use as a chemical weapon" covered that nicely...

ENCRYPTION IS NOT A CRIME

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny thing is, if Microsoft would drop that deal it wouldn't take long until "We-certainly-don't-sell-guns-and-gear-for-military" ltd. would put an order of 100,000 Hololenses. This time Microsoft would only provide the hardware and this other company the software and these developers would be just "okay" because they are not selling to the military and either way they couldn't do much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I'm pretty sure that's not true. I mean I'm no expert but I do live in Europe and I've never heard of a US subsidised military in any EU country before. I've personally travelled to almost every country in the EU at some point.

Sorry, I meant EU as an abbreviation for Europe, not the EU specifically.  In any case, it's not just about subsidizing the military in a country.  Sometimes just by being in a neighboring country, our forces provide a stability that may otherwise not exist, allowing that country to reduce their defense spending accordingly.

1 hour ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

That is hilarious (not to mention hypocritical) coming from the one who said, "I am sick of these progressive cultists thinking they can force their Anti-American, Anti-Capitalist views on everyone."

Really?  And where precisely did I write that?  If you'd bother to read back, you'd see someone else wrote that, not me.  Now how about addressing your conflation of conservatives with "hate", rather than trying to deflect from my criticism of you or quoting pointless dictionary definitions.

46 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

I thought the phrase "the prevention of their use as a chemical weapon" covered that nicely...

That's not how it came across to me, but fair enough.  I read that as meaning something else entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting reading, relevant to topic:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Armstrong,_1st_Baron_Armstrong

 

 

He profited out of the US civil war (sold guns to both sides) as well.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Deleted by poster.

Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

as a softwaredeveloper myself i do agree with them. i wouldnt want to spend my salary either knowing the bills are bloody.

however i feel like in every bigger company there always gonna be skeletons in the basement. the only difference they may achive is wether the public knows about it or not.

i myself have not yet worked for the military , partly because i cant. my russian roots prevent me from passing the background checks for certain security level. but i know this because i have colleagues that so work in that sector. 

regretably i still have also ethical problems sometimes. for example , for a short period of time i worked for a company installing automated warehouses around the globe and while that might seem fine. we were still confronted with the fact that our "robots" put hundreds of people out of work. we even got into a fist fight at a local bar once during our stay there. 

in the end if you follow the chain of ....idk what to call it but somewhere down the road it always ends up in the wrong hands. 

i now develop testing software for big automotive companies and again that sounds fine but those companies also supply military vehicles that my software was used to test. i dont think theres a way around it anymore. so just do it like all the other sheep and turn a blind eye so i can sleep at night

"You know it'll clock down as soon as it hits 40°C, right?" - "Yeah ... but it doesnt hit 40°C ... ever  😄"

 

GPU: MSI GTX1080 Ti Aero @ 2 GHz (watercooled) CPU: Ryzen 5600X (watercooled) RAM: 32GB 3600Mhz Corsair LPX MB: Gigabyte B550i PSU: Corsair SF750 Case: Hyte Revolt 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

russian roots

we even got into a fist fight at a local bar once during our stay there. 

Well, Russians ?
Sorry, had to say it ^^

 

5 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

in the end if you follow the chain of ....idk what to call it but somewhere down the road it always ends up in the wrong hands. 

Yeah, like the Toyotas in the hands of some very extreme peoples. 

There really isn't something you can do about it. The only thing you can hope and pray for is that it is done for peace to protect your country/people and not someone else somewhere else in a way that shouldn't happen that way.

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Well, Russians ?
Sorry, had to say it ^^

 

Yeah, like the Toyotas in the hands of some very extreme peoples. 

There really isn't something you can do about it. The only thing you can hope and pray for is that it is done for peace to protect your country/people and not someone else somewhere else in a way that shouldn't happen that way.

:D really? im  very peaceful dude i dint start it. but you right i sure didnt run from a fight either once the first punch was thrown.

 

i mean sure you can always go to the extrem and make connections like a company making pencils and then some evil contract gets signed with them or the toilet paper the evil overlords wipe their buts with.

the difference i guess is that i you made the toilet paper better that wouldnt also make it easier for them to kill people. where active weapons development does and id argue vehicles also to some extent.

"You know it'll clock down as soon as it hits 40°C, right?" - "Yeah ... but it doesnt hit 40°C ... ever  😄"

 

GPU: MSI GTX1080 Ti Aero @ 2 GHz (watercooled) CPU: Ryzen 5600X (watercooled) RAM: 32GB 3600Mhz Corsair LPX MB: Gigabyte B550i PSU: Corsair SF750 Case: Hyte Revolt 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

as a softwaredeveloper myself i do agree with them. i wouldnt want to spend my salary either knowing the bills are bloody.

however i feel like in every bigger company there always gonna be skeletons in the basement. the only difference they may achive is wether the public knows about it or not.

-snip-

....idk what to call it but somewhere down the road it always ends up in the wrong hands. 

i now develop testing software for big automotive companies and again that sounds fine but those companies also supply military vehicles that my software was used to test. i dont think theres a way around it anymore. so just do it like all the other sheep and turn a blind eye so i can sleep at night

The way I see it (been part of one military project), it's just question about who gets that fat paycheck. If they have already locked their hardware, they are just going to find some other company who will put an order for the hardware if the hardware manufacturer refuses to sell for the military or they just pay someone to develope exact same hardware. Software is a lot the same, it's even you to get paid and do it or they find someone else to do it. In Microsofts case, it's the first one, if they have locked down to use Hololens, they are going to get it and they are going to use Microsofts code in it and only question is who is going to build the software they are going to use.

If you refuse to have anything to do with companies who have projects with military, you are going to cut out pretty much every bigger contract out there. Not to mention that military contracts are always more than well paid and they have quite high continuation rate which means steady and good income. And as the joke goes: There's only two kinds of people: prostitutes and idiots (you would be idiot if you wouldn't do it for "10 million moneys" and if you did, you would be a prostitute).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

-snip-

i guess everyone got a price. but 10 million wouldnt be mine. although anualy might be a different story

"You know it'll clock down as soon as it hits 40°C, right?" - "Yeah ... but it doesnt hit 40°C ... ever  😄"

 

GPU: MSI GTX1080 Ti Aero @ 2 GHz (watercooled) CPU: Ryzen 5600X (watercooled) RAM: 32GB 3600Mhz Corsair LPX MB: Gigabyte B550i PSU: Corsair SF750 Case: Hyte Revolt 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cluelessgenius said:

as a softwaredeveloper myself i do agree with them. i wouldnt want to spend my salary either knowing the bills are bloody.

I'm on the opposite side, I don't care who ends up using my work and having the military as a client would mean a lifetime commission or till pension, after that it's either more money or no longer my problem

One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!!

Phones: iPhone 4S/SE | LG V10 | Lumia 920

Laptops: Macbook Pro 15" (mid-2012) | Compaq Presario V6000

 

<>EVs are bad, they kill the planet and remove freedoms too some/<>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Jito463 said:

That's not unfortunate.  A strong military is necessary to the survival of our country, this technology will help ensure our military stays strong.  Yes, soldiers kill in battle.  However, that can improve the world when the ones killed are those who wish evil upon us.

That's not how it works.  You don't get to tell your employer how your work is used.  You either accept it or quit.  If you want a say in how your work is used, you start up your own company and work for yourself.

Exactly.

Being pacifist yourself is all fine and well, but being anti-military is not the same thing (and opposing improvements in technology that can aid the military is being anti-military in my opinion).  Even if they're not willing to fight themselves, someone else still needs to stand on the wall as the watchman.  Technology like this will help keep those watchmen safe.

Not true, though I can understand how you'd believe that given the propaganda in the media.  While we do too often get into battles that we shouldn't, many of the ones we are involved in revolve around protecting other countries and people from harm.  Not to mention that we're the only country in the world (possibly in history) that will defeat a nation and then spend our own money helping them rebuild.

That's because we also provide defense for many countries in Europe and other places around the world.

Or in developing counter-agents to chemical weapons.

How is it "the right thing to do"?  Serious question.

I love how you conflate "conservative" with "cultist", and "narrow minded" and "hateful" (and what the heck is a "jingoist"?).  Really lets your bias shine through, eh?

Im well aware of how emploiyement works in the U.S I am a fully independent adult  

but being employed doesnt mean you should have to go against ethical use of technology, I think they have a right to state they are against it and thats MY opinion

Desktop:ryzen 5 3600 | MSI b45m bazooka | EVGA 650w Icoolermaster masterbox nr400 |16 gb ddr4  corsiar lpx| Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1070ti |500GB SSD+2TB SSHD, 2tb seagate barracuda [OS/games/mass storage] | HpZR240w 1440p led logitech g502 proteus spectrum| Coolermaster quick fire pro cherry mx  brown |

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

I'm on the opposite side, I don't care who ends up using my work and having the military as a client would mean a lifetime commission or till pension, after that it's either more money or no longer my problem

i wish i could be this ignorant to the whole (really not meant as an insult i just couldnt find a better word) would make life much easier. 

"You know it'll clock down as soon as it hits 40°C, right?" - "Yeah ... but it doesnt hit 40°C ... ever  😄"

 

GPU: MSI GTX1080 Ti Aero @ 2 GHz (watercooled) CPU: Ryzen 5600X (watercooled) RAM: 32GB 3600Mhz Corsair LPX MB: Gigabyte B550i PSU: Corsair SF750 Case: Hyte Revolt 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

i wish i could be this ignorant to the whole (really not meant as an insult i just couldnt find a better word) would make life much easier. 

not really turning a blind eye on the issue, more like: the world has already gone to shit, might as well profit off of it as much as possible and ensure a good life for me and my family

One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!!

Phones: iPhone 4S/SE | LG V10 | Lumia 920

Laptops: Macbook Pro 15" (mid-2012) | Compaq Presario V6000

 

<>EVs are bad, they kill the planet and remove freedoms too some/<>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 2/24/2019 at 6:40 AM, VegetableStu said:

AND ON THAT BOMBSHELL--

More like, And on that terrible disappointment... ?

Main Rig: cpu: Intel 6600k OC @ 4.5Ghz; gpu: Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 2080 (OC'd); mb: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3; ram: 16 GB (2x8GB) 3000 G.Skill Ripjaws V; psu: EVGA 650BQ; storage: 500GB Samsung 850 evo, 2TB WD Black; case: Cooler Master HAF 912; cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, Lots of fans, Air!; display: 4k Samsung 42" TV, Asus MX259H 1080p audio: Schiit Audio Magni Amp w/ Audio Technica M50x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, jmack said:

The tone of this thread is a bit toxic and turning into a left vs right battle. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but remember that there is no place here for demeaning a person because of their views. 

really wasnt my attention. actually just couldnt find a better word for turning a blind eye i guess :D

"You know it'll clock down as soon as it hits 40°C, right?" - "Yeah ... but it doesnt hit 40°C ... ever  😄"

 

GPU: MSI GTX1080 Ti Aero @ 2 GHz (watercooled) CPU: Ryzen 5600X (watercooled) RAM: 32GB 3600Mhz Corsair LPX MB: Gigabyte B550i PSU: Corsair SF750 Case: Hyte Revolt 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm behind Microsoft employees on this one. Like all great inventions, there's always someone somewhere that will weaponize new technologies. If it would have been a  technology developed by and for the military from the ground up, I would not say but it's not that.

These engineers developed a tool to make it easier for people to build buildings and assemble critical equipment. I don't remember if it was NASA, SpaceX or some other Aerospatial companies but they were showing footage of hololens being used to make sure every bolts were screwed to a device (a rocket I think). That's what this device was built for and the reason why these engineers signed on the project in the first place.

What's worse in all of this beside yet an another technology being weaponized is that it will dehumanize war even more. They are right by calling out that Hololens augmented soldiers will be eventually be playing IRL Call of Duty. We have drones and I don't see any reasons why the next step would not be remote controlled tanks and vehicles. We'll reach an another milestone once a country creates a "battle" robot.

Current Build: SD-DESK-07

 

Case: Bitfenix Prodigy // PSU: SeaSonic SS-650RM // Motherboard: P8Z77-I DELUXE // CPU: Intel Core i5 3570k // Cooler: Corsair H80i // RAM: Patriot Intel Extreme Masters 2X8GB DDR3 1600MHz // SSD: Crucial M500 240GB // Video: EVGA GeForce GTX 660Ti SC 2GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tribalinius said:

I'm behind Microsoft employees on this one. Like all great inventions, there's always someone somewhere that will weaponize new technologies. If it would have been a  technology developed by and for the military from the ground up, I would not say but it's not that.

These engineers developed a tool to make it easier for people to build buildings and assemble critical equipment. I don't remember if it was NASA, SpaceX or some other Aerospatial companies but they were showing footage of hololens being used to make sure every bolts were screwed to a device (a rocket I think). That's what this device was built for and the reason why these engineers signed on the project in the first place.

What's worse in all of this beside yet an another technology being weaponized is that it will dehumanize war even more. They are right by calling out that Hololens augmented soldiers will be eventually be playing IRL Call of Duty. We have drones and I don't see any reasons why the next step would not be remote controlled tanks and vehicles. We'll reach an another milestone once a country creates a "battle" robot.

The type of tech used in hololens was born from the Military in an effort to give US soldiers an AR HUD at least a decade ago.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, AR HUD been around in the military for awhile on aircraft.  This is just the next step and not really a surprise.  There been talks and even full blown documents talking about using these devices within the military.

 

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1000872.pdf

Straight up the Hololens is mentioned within this document back in 2015 along with several other companies and their devices.  So, basically Microsoft most likely won out agaisnt other companies on a contract with DoD to provide these devices to the military.

2023 BOINC Pentathlon Event

F@H & BOINC Installation on Linux Guide

My CPU Army: 5800X, E5-2670V3, 1950X, 5960X J Batch, 10750H *lappy

My GPU Army:3080Ti, 960 FTW @ 1551MHz, RTX 2070 Max-Q *lappy

My Console Brigade: Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, Switch, PS2 Fatty, Xbox One S, Xbox One X

My Tablet Squad: iPad Air 5th Gen, Samsung Tab S, Nexus 7 (1st gen)

3D Printer Unit: Prusa MK3S, Prusa Mini, EPAX E10

VR Headset: Quest 2

 

Hardware lost to Kevdog's Law of Folding

OG Titan, 5960X, ThermalTake BlackWidow 850 Watt PSU

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, TheCMan said:

What if you're selling guns so a country or what ever place so they can defend themselves from evil intruders? You know, like in WWII and USA sending aid to the UK.

That's a circular argument, "evil" intruders get their weapons from companies that don't refuse to provide them. Weapons or not the final outcome is the same, minus a few million deaths. It's pointless to argue on a "what if", WWII was what it was and who knows what the world would be today without it - but that doesn't mean we can't strive for a better future, one where peace isn't negotiated at nuke point and the US doesn't get to invade and destroy countries for profit with minimal losses due to their extremely overfunded and overequipped military.

20 hours ago, TheCMan said:

There are plenty of times to support a particular people. Plenty of times people make mistakes and give aid to the wrong people though.

Name one time where the US intervened to "support" a people since WWII. The best I can think of is the recent fight against ISIS which was the result of previous US military and political influence over the middle east - and Siria was basically in ruins by the time the US stepped in. Even if we accept that as a positive intervention, the current forces the US possesses are already WAYYYYYYYYYYY overpowered to deal with what was essentially a bunch of desperate thugs with recycled weapons - so we come back to the original point; the US army doesn't need more advanced weapons and giving them more is to enable mass murder.

20 hours ago, TheCMan said:

Fourth, you can't stop the military from buying something. Either you partner with them or they will buy it straight up.

Hololens is not a product yet, and even if it were it wouldn't be interesting for the military in its current state. They want it modified to their spec, which is what these employees are protesting against.

20 hours ago, TheCMan said:

You agreed to work for MS and should know very well that they have partnered with military. 

MS having worked for the military in the past has no relation to employees not wanting to work for them now... MS is a megacorporation, only a small part of their staff is involved in any given project. The hololens guys want nothing to do with the military, and they're right to protest in that case.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Sauron said:

That's a circular argument, "evil" intruders get their weapons from companies that don't refuse to provide them.

Or, you know, the invading country just manufactures it themselves.  Because it certainly never happens where the government either controls or outright owns the means of production *cough*China*cough*.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

They should feel pride that they are making something that will defend their country. This is just as bad as taking the knee in the NFL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×