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A Mac as a work machine?

7 minutes ago, Lukyp said:


Either a mac or a ThinkPad with Linux, or XPS which have a developer edition with ubuntu, they are perfectly supported with linux and work like a charm without driver incompatibility and shitty battery life (often caused by not installing the proper driver with the driver manager in optimus systems)

Also hipdpi displays are supported as well in the recent linux versions

I use currently an XPS and pretty much on my work I rely heavily on a *nix environment, so far is working great, you only have to install the nvidia graphics driver, i got major issues with sound card driver bugs in my desktop but I ditched it and using Windows to game on it. Guess I have to wait until they fix it

this. I'd love a new XPS13 developer addition.

Recovering Apple addict

 

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3 minutes ago, FuzzyYellow said:

this. I'd love a new XPS13 developer addition.

At least with it you are sure the ACPI is not messed up for Linux like some vendors did in the past and actually still do today with no backlight keys working or sleep issues, or wait for acpi fixes in the kernel or dig and use workarounds unless you are lucky

in general today is a better story since even broadcom decided to make an open source driver... In the past was completely a nightmare

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5 hours ago, FuzzyYellow said:

Linux, even Ubuntu is FAR from plug and play. I have yet to get a reliable Linux distro running on my machine. Wireless adapters are flakey, battery life is hell on notebooks. I would LOVE to daily drive Linux, but it truly isn’t there yet. It’s getting close, but not quite.

From my experience, desktops are way easier to get Linux working on with the fewest headaches. When I first built my PC, the only driver I had to deal with was the NVIDIA drivers for my GTX 1070, as everything else worked out of the box. There were some issues with desktop-related stuff, but games worked fine. Later, I swapped my 1070 for an RX 580, and things were smooth sailing.

 

On a laptop, though, it's hell. Most laptops I've used that I installed Linux required doing quite a few things to make wireless networking work. Touch screens have been hit or miss for me, but they're getting better. Same with art tablets. My brother's Wacom tablet worked out of the box requiring only some setup to get the buttons to work, but my Huion tablet required installing a driver just to get anything to work.

 

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Interesting. I’ve had the exact opposite be true in my experience. AMD drivers have been nothing but a headache, even preventing successfully booting many many many times. Nvidia and intel just work out of the box.

I'm surprised. AMD and Intel work out of the box for me, and all that is required is to install an up-to-date version of Mesa (while staying away from AMD Catalyst). I usually only have issues with NVIDIA.

 

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6 minutes ago, Kavawuvi said:

From my experience, desktops are way easier to get Linux working on with the fewest headaches. When I first built my PC, the only driver I had to deal with was the NVIDIA drivers for my GTX 1070, as everything else worked out of the box. There were some issues with desktop-related stuff, but games worked fine. Later, I swapped my 1070 for an RX 580, and things were smooth sailing.

 

On a laptop, though, it's hell. Most laptops I've used that I installed Linux required doing quite a few things to make wireless networking work. Touch screens have been hit or miss for me, but they're getting better. Same with art tablets. My brother's Wacom tablet worked out of the box requiring only some setup to get the buttons to work, but my Huion tablet required installing a driver just to get anything to work.

 

I'm surprised. AMD and Intel work out of the box for me, and all that is required is to install an up-to-date version of Mesa (while staying away from AMD Catalyst). I usually only have issues with NVIDIA.

 

In my desktop I come out with a bugged sound card where microphone recording sounded like s***t... because of a driver codec bug they still have to solve

When I buy a laptop I will first look at the specs and check the linux kernel if it is supported or has strange bugs or not, or just buy supported laptops from vendors...

I got an Huion tablet too for osu and it worked plug and play, it mostly depends, sometimes can be insanely easy since even on Windows you are often required to find a driver manually, other times is just a nightmare

Yeah AMD should work fine since they support directly the graphics driver unlike the past, if you got one from the fglrx era well it will be a bit of an hassle

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1 hour ago, FuzzyYellow said:

Glad to hear it's working well for you.  I'll just say that I've had a hell of a time just getting things up and running on my MacBook. On my 2011 I couldn't get it to boot without running in safe mode due to graphic driver issues (yay AMD). no matter which driver I used, it wouldn't work. now with my 2012 it boots, (yay Nvidia GPU) but it runs REALLY hot and I have yet to get the wireless card working, which is interesting considering it's the same card as with the 2011. Literally the same exact wireless physical card. 

 

I've honestly given up until I'm on a device with a single GPU and more time.

Ah yeah, mine doesn't have a dGPU. That probably solves a lot of trouble, because Nvidia and Linux... yeah, not the best experience with that either.

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The biggest thing I have against MacOS is their license.

 

For awhile there, I really respected Apple hardware.  For most of a decade, you got a machine that was a very standardized, curated subset of the "Intel PC."  Their electrical and mechanical parts were interchangeable, so you could upgrade RAM, replace hard drives, fix broken keyboards, etc.  You could make one working Macbook out of two non-working Macbooks.

 

That seems to have changed. 

 

Apple's business practices are questionable at best, particularly the kinds of businesses they contract with for manufacture, warranty service, and some app development.  Not everyone at Apple works in that big UFO they built.  The more I look at them, the more they remind me of Ben Stiller in Happy Gilmore.

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15 minutes ago, captain_aggravated said:

The biggest thing I have against MacOS is their license.

 

For awhile there, I really respected Apple hardware.  For most of a decade, you got a machine that was a very standardized, curated subset of the "Intel PC."  Their electrical and mechanical parts were interchangeable, so you could upgrade RAM, replace hard drives, fix broken keyboards, etc.  You could make one working Macbook out of two non-working Macbooks.

 

That seems to have changed. 

 

Apple's business practices are questionable at best, particularly the kinds of businesses they contract with for manufacture, warranty service, and some app development.  Not everyone at Apple works in that big UFO they built.  The more I look at them, the more they remind me of Ben Stiller in Happy Gilmore.

hence why I have an early-2011 unibody 15" that I put a mid-2012 logic board in, upgraded the RAM, and SSD. 

 

 

yeah, not your typical Mac user...

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It's not like anyone else is better.  I'm pretty sure the people building Raspberry Pis in PRC are held down and punched in the face for 2 hours out of the workday because managing factories seems to do things to people's brains.  There simply isn't a correct choice to make here. 

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9 hours ago, FuzzyYellow said:

Linux, even Ubuntu is FAR from plug and play. I have yet to get a reliable Linux distro running on my machine. Wireless adapters are flakey, battery life is hell on notebooks. I would LOVE to daily drive Linux, but it truly isn’t there yet. It’s getting close, but not quite.

Interesting. I’ve had the exact opposite be true in my experience. AMD drivers have been nothing but a headache, even preventing successfully booting many many many times. Nvidia and intel just work out of the box.

ubuntu is quiet plug n play though as with mac os you have to buy compatible hardware there's alot of plug n play linux wireless adapters and out of my last 8 laptops have not had a issue with it not working and my battery is way better then when it was running windows. though im talking about desktops either way not notebook compatibility. and on desktop its extremely plug n play and i havent had any issues on a desktop with it? what issues were you having?

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5 hours ago, Kavawuvi said:

I wouldn't consider a hexacore i5 to be "weak sauce". As for 8 GB of RAM, while I do agree that it is lackluster, this isn't exactly a workstation. It's a small form factor desktop computer designed for people who just need a decently fast desktop PC.

 

Xeon CPUs only go up to 28 cores per CPU socket, so no PC can do that. Also, I'm wondering how you plan on fitting four Titan X cards into a PC the size of a Mac Mini.

 

As for 64 GB, the iMac Pro can supports up to 128 GB.

 

Yes, for $1099, I agree that when you consider only performance, the Mac Mini isn't a good value and you could easily build a $1100 PC that would run laps around any $1100 prebuilt PC, especially a Mac. I personally wouldn't buy a Mac because of that as well as the lack of options, plus I really enjoy building PCs. Performance isn't the be all and end all for everyone, though. Some people just like using Macs, and I think that's fair.

 

For best performance, you shouldn't be getting a Mac. It is about as common sense as don't get a laptop over desktop for performance.  Macs performance simply range from weak sauce to mediocre. 

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I've never met a serious businesses in my various fields of interest that didn't run off Macs or wish they were.

 

They just work in a way Windows doesnt and can't. No reason to run Windows for anything other than gaming, imo. (And I say this as a life long windows user, techie, and PC technician.)

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2 minutes ago, wasab said:

For best performance, you shouldn't be getting a Mac. It is about as common sense as don't get a laptop over desktop for performance.  Macs performance simply range from weak sauce to mediocre. 

The iMac Pro, MBP 15", or hell, even Mac Pro are weak sauce? They out perform most of out battle stations in actual work...

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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

I mean I'm getting a used 1070 laptop for semi-desktop performance on the go for rendering.

If you use Windows software, then you're doing the right thing.

 

Most schools in the states teach you how to use macOS and do everything you would want in terms of media creation on macOS.

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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

From my experience on Macs, and Linux, there's more than just games that don't run perfectly on either.  I know people like to argue stuff like WINE and other stuff; however, that crap is far from perfect and the SW usually has stability/performance issues when going that route.

Ive yet to find a windows program that didn't have a flawless macOS port, or alternative. macOS actually has better apps for lots of things like Carbon Copy Cloner for making whole machine backups (CCC>Time machine), FCP's superior optimization to Adobe Premier, so on...

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Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

I've only had one school that actually had macs in them, and they were barely used.  I know how to use all 3 personally, but the only SW I use that works well on Linux is Blender.

Odd. Every school I've been to has Macs and use them well. All the way back to Elementary school, and most of my online buddies spread around the nation have the same experience. May be a regional thing, theyre all coastal (as am I)

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Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ATX AM4 Motherboard  (Purchased For $356.99) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
Storage: Crucial MX300 1.05 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $180.00) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB WINDFORCE Video Card  (Purchased For $370.00) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $120.00) 
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $75.00) 
Total: $1891.98
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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

It has alternatives yes, but that doesn't mean every school or workplace allows the alternatives.  Using stuff like WINE or other methods to run the applications has problems compared to the native platform.  I've run into myself on an off for quite some time.

Thats fair. Never an issue I have had myself, but one I could see having

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Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ATX AM4 Motherboard  (Purchased For $356.99) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
Storage: Crucial MX300 1.05 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $180.00) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB WINDFORCE Video Card  (Purchased For $370.00) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $120.00) 
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Total: $1891.98
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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

It's not as common In Maryland from my experience.  I've lived here my whole life, and I've literally only had one school that has Macs in them.  Outside of some editing places most places here run Dells with windows on them.

I may have been a little too general in my statement then I guess. Even my under-funded university shelled out for multiple computer labs worth of Macbooks. Only use Dell SFF towers for the public (since its an open campus. Anybody can check in and use the PC's)

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CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core OEM/Tray Processor  (Purchased For $419.99) 
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ATX AM4 Motherboard  (Purchased For $356.99) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
Storage: Crucial MX300 1.05 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $180.00) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB WINDFORCE Video Card  (Purchased For $370.00) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $120.00) 
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $75.00) 
Total: $1891.98
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Just now, valdyrgramr said:

I think it's dependent on what you're doing and who is in charge too.  Personally, I dual boot between different Linux distros and Windows 10 Pro.  Sometimes I'll use Ubuntu other times Fedora Workstation.

I've never used Linux seriously. I understand its appeal, and if I could live without Office 365 desktop (required by my uni) I would probably run it myself. Seems nice

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1 hour ago, Alaradia said:

ubuntu is quiet plug n play though as with mac os you have to buy compatible hardware there's alot of plug n play linux wireless adapters and out of my last 8 laptops have not had a issue with it not working and my battery is way better then when it was running windows. though im talking about desktops either way not notebook compatibility. and on desktop its extremely plug n play and i havent had any issues on a desktop with it? what issues were you having?

Like I said earlier in this thread, I've had a single wireless card be supported in one system, and not supported in another, both clean installs by me. And it's not Ubuntu's fault, Ubuntu does a great job at supporting certain hardware, just like MacOS does a great job supporting certain hardware. 

 

Graphics drivers is another area that's extremely hit-or-miss with Ubuntu. Same with touchscreens, funky audio setups, etc. Mainly the issues lie with laptops/notebooks. Unless you're getting a machine that's been specifically configured to run ubuntu on it, and therefor has all the perfect drivers, there are going to be issues. that's a fact.

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15 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

The thing with Linux is making sure you have supported hw or community made drivers because not a lot of companies are focusing on Linux, let alone MacOS or OSX, compared to Windows.    Ubuntu is pretty straight forward, but as mentioned you can get a build with Linux installed already for you.  From there you just have to update the drivers yourself.  My personal beef with Apple is horrid pricing. 

A LOT of HW companies are supporting Linux nowadays.  Much much more so than 10 years ago.  Generally if you stay away from a couple of vendors, everything "just works."   When I buy a laptop, it's super easy to tell if things will be supported in Linux.   Now some motherboard BIOSes are buggy and screw up things like ACPI tables etc, but that's not Linux's fault at all but purely the motherboard manufactuer's fault.  Linux is generally pretty spot on as far as following specs.  If X company wants to produce trash BIOSs for their motherboards, that's on THEM.

 

14 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

From my experience on Macs, and Linux, there's more than just games that don't run perfectly on either.  I know people like to argue stuff like WINE and other stuff; however, that crap is far from perfect and the SW usually has stability/performance issues when going that route. 

There's also a fair amount of programs that run far better on Linux.  A lot of the engineering tools only used to work on Unix-like systems.  I think there's been recent ports over to Windows but those have been in recent years and almost everyone still uses them on Linux.

 

Also, coming from a mainly Unix-like OS background, doing anything in Windows other than webbrowsing, gaming, etc, is infuriating.  I was trying to do something and was annoyed that I had to go search for SW to do something in Windows that a simple one liner could do in Linux.   Linux has had software repos for god only knows how long where Windows just got the Windows store (and it's so bad that no one uses it).  It's so easy to do an "aptitude install nvi" rather than open a web browser and google for a piece software.

 

What annoys be is when people criticize Linux when they've been using Windows all their lives.  If you take a Unix-like user who's grown up on it and give them Windows, they'll bitch and moan 20 times worse than any Windows user will about using Linux and they will have completely justified reasons for doing so also.  Windows has a very very specific mindset it wants the users to have.   Linux isn't that great at that one Windows like mindset, but it can do so much more than that.

 

I'm NOT saying people should switch to Linux by ANY means.  But when people criticize it without even starting to realize their own inherent bias, it drives me crazy.

"Anger, which, far sweeter than trickling drops of honey, rises in the bosom of a man like smoke."

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5 hours ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

The iMac Pro, MBP 15", or hell, even Mac Pro are weak sauce? They out perform most of out battle stations in actual work...

How is that gonna outperform a 5 thousand dollars pc with amd thread ripper and nvida Titan 4x in sli? 

Sudo make me a sandwich 

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9 hours ago, wasab said:

How is that gonna outperform a 5 thousand dollars pc with amd thread ripper and nvida Titan 4x in sli? 

It wont... But if you need that much horsepower then you should have never even looked at Apple... All software that would even think of utilizing a setup like that doesnt exist on macOS.

 

Apple is aiming for content creators and productivity, not quad GPU compute beasts for... I'm not sure. CAD?

 

Also. That doesn't qualify Apple as weak sauce in specs. The top end MBP already has more power than most people would need. The iMac Pro is a content creating beast, especially in its formfactor. Even the lowest end MBP (2c/4t, 8GB RAM, iGPU) is plenty for the majority of people who don't expect to use it as a portable workstation...

Brands I wholeheartedly reccomend (though do have flawed products): Apple, Razer, Corsair, Asus, Gigabyte, bequiet!, Noctua, Fractal, GSkill (RAM only)

Wall Of Fame (Informative people/People I like): @Glenwing @DrMacintosh @Schnoz @TempestCatto @LogicalDrm @Dan Castellaneta

Useful threads: 

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Guide to Display Cables/Adapters

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Main PC: See spoiler tag

Laptop: 2020 iPad Pro 12.9" with Magic Keyboard

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PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gKh8zN

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core OEM/Tray Processor  (Purchased For $419.99) 
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ATX AM4 Motherboard  (Purchased For $356.99) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
Storage: Crucial MX300 1.05 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $180.00) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB WINDFORCE Video Card  (Purchased For $370.00) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $120.00) 
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $75.00) 
Total: $1891.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-02 19:59 EDT-0400

身のなわたしはる果てぞ  悲しわたしはかりけるわたしは

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13 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Apple is aiming for content creators and productivity, not quad GPU compute beasts for... I'm not sure. CAD?

Render farms and scientific computation mostly.

 

Those are the types of systems that you use for, say, a large scale animation project like Zootopia, where those 8 GPU machines run headless but machines like iMac Pros, Mac Pros, etc. are still going to be what the animators use directly.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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On 2/23/2019 at 5:17 AM, Gordolio said:

But I also think that Mac users are treated like 2nd rate citizens in the tech-tips-topia.

this. 

 

mention a Mac once either on here or the official discord server and you'll get laughed at. 

She/Her

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21 hours ago, wasab said:

can a mac have 4 32 cores server xenon fitted into a 4 socket motherboard or mount 4 titan x cards on it

no it can't. it doesn't need to. 

 

21 hours ago, wasab said:

or do a 64 gb ram configuration?

i believe the iMac Pro goes up to 128GB. 

 

21 hours ago, wasab said:

oh please,

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini

how is $1,099 for an i5 and 8 gb ram not weak sauce? I should be seeing at least a core i7 in this price range. 

you are paying for the design, software, and support. that all factors in with the price. 

 

21 hours ago, wasab said:

It is weak sauce. 

that depends on the Mac. the iMac Pro can have up to an 18 core xeon, 128gb of ram and a vega 64. is that still 'weak sauce'?

 

21 hours ago, Kavawuvi said:

Yes, for $1099, I agree that when you consider only performance, the Mac Mini isn't a good value and you could easily build a $1100 PC that would run laps around any $1100 prebuilt PC, especially a Mac. I personally wouldn't buy a Mac because of that as well as the lack of options, plus I really enjoy building PCs. Performance isn't the be all and end all for everyone, though. Some people just like using Macs, and I think that's fair.

when you consider that Windows 10 home is €145, and that stuff like MS Office also costs a lot of money, i don't think you can build a pc for $1100 that's a lot faster than a Mac Mini. considering the OS on a Mac is free, and software like Pages, Numbers, Keynote and iMovie are all free. 

 

by the time you've paid for the OS, an office suite and a video editor you'll be out a lot of money you could have spent on parts. 

 

and yes i know, not everyone uses that kind of software, but i think it should be considered when calculating a price difference between a Mac and a PC. 

She/Her

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