Schools doing field trips to the...... Apple Store?!

[Salv8 (sam)]

here in down under that would not fly with out government

we have very similar laws (except it apply to everyone, not just young children)

not only would apple get fined QUITE a lot of money (we're talking about a million or so depending on the seriousness of the situation)

they would actually be restricted from doing certain things in Australia e.g limited advertising

Christ will they start using hypnoses on their devices to ensure people keep buying their products?!

[maartendc]

15 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The parents are feed the same crap that the school got feed too from Apple in planning trip. It is easy to convince people that don't know much.

So you as a parent have the choice. Either you say No, and your 10 year old kid will either, at your choice, stay at home, meaning you'll need to get a baby sitter as both parents (usually) goes to work, or they are stuck alone in some classroom or library bored to death.

No, I am saying the parents shouldn't even come into the equation. The school should not organize the trip. End of story.

 

Are you going to organize a trip to Walmart the week after? This is just ridiculous. Unless they are getting some educational "behind the scenes" look at how the logistics of the store / operation work, there is ZERO.ZERO educational value.

 

 

[Doobeedoo]

Fucked up society

[NumLock21]

Most school uses macs and students would still want to get a mac anyway, even when there is no field trip to the apple store. My elementary school uses macs and because of that, till this day I always wanted to get one. 

Imo the fieldtrip is just letting kids know the technological device they use today in their everyday lives. I bet if other companies can do this, they will do this too. 

[GabeThePCHelper]

23 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

Ain't indoctrination grand? Get 'em early, hook 'em for life

 

That sounds about right, this is also very wrong to do..

[Brooksie359]

5 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Most school uses macs and students would still want to get a mac anyway, even when there is no field trip to the apple store. My elementary school uses macs and because of that, till this day I always wanted to get one. 

That's super strange to me. My school only had a few macs for software that only ran on macs. I always preferred using the pcs because they were much more powerful partially because they were used to run different engineering software. 

[GoodBytes]

26 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

That's super strange to me. My school only had a few macs for software that only ran on macs. I always preferred using the pcs because they were much more powerful partially because they were used to run different engineering software. 

Not really.

Normally, schools have special discounts when they buy pre-build systems from manufactures. Sometimes you can get some pretty sweet specs as well, as many times manufactures will throw in extra parts they want to get rid off, like extra RAM, I won't be surprised if a school can end up with PCs with 8GB of RAM, and a 128GB SATA SSD, because they have too much 4GB sticks, and they are stuck with too many old, slower than the competition, SSDs, for not a penny more over a 4GB RAM model with a 5400RPM HDD that it would normally get for the price. Not to mention deep discounts on not only the system, but also warranty coverage, like for the price of 1 year with accidental damage protection they get 5 years.

 

Sometimes, computer manufacture will donate computers to universities to form a few labs, which can be a group effort of other companies, or alone.

 

Apple like to sign exclusivity deals. While I have no hard facts on this, we were offered this when I worked in the days at a school institution, where Apple is willing to give the school all the computers (model varies) for free or super deep discount, but in exchange, students can't see a PCs from the school. So they have iPads for classes, or MacBooks, labs have iMacs, teachers uses iMacs, class room podiums (if any) runs off a Mac Mini, etc. For Apple, it advertising.. still cheaper than making TV ads. And they know that when the kids grow up, they'll buy an Apple computer when they reach University.

This is why you have schools with only Apple computers, when normally they would not be able to come close to afford them.

[EarthWormJM2]

...This is absolutely sickening. Exploiting our kids to buy Apple products. I don't care that it is Apple, absolutely NO school should be taking our kids to any STORE to promote that stores products. Maybe if they were taking them to an Apple factory or repair shop (), then you can make the argument to get them into engineering. But taking them to a retail store to play around with their products then have them return home begging their parents to buy them one, is too far. Apple knows exactly what they are doing with this kind of "school program".

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

That's super strange to me. My school only had a few macs for software that only ran on macs. I always preferred using the pcs because they were much more powerful partially because they were used to run different engineering software. 

During my time at elementary it as all just Macs, there wasn't a single IBM based PC, it wasn't until I got into High School that's when I see school starting to have more PCs than Macs. In college it was all PCs, and I've only seen 4 iMacs during my time there. What they did was the iMac was placed on a stand up desk with no chair, so students won't be hogging it all day.

[Brooksie359]

10 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

During my time at elementary it as all just Macs, there wasn't a single IBM based PC, it wasn't until I got into High School that's when I see school starting to have more PCs than Macs. In college it was all PCs, and I've only seen 4 iMacs during my time there. What they did was the iMac was placed on a stand up desk with no chair, so students won't be hogging it all day.

My college had 2 mac computer labs and one lab that was half and half but they had many more PC labs. In high school I think there was only 8 to 10 macs in the entire school.

[NumLock21]

6 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

My college had 2 mac computer labs and one lab that was half and half but they had many more PC labs. In high school I think there was only 8 to 10 macs in the entire school.

I guess schools knows what they're doing. Can't be buying Macs just to look cool, when more software are supported for PCs than Macs.

[Brooksie359]

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

I guess schools knows what they're doing. Can't be buying Macs just to look cool, when more software are supported for PCs than Macs.

Yeah the majority of the software I used in high school and college wont run on a mac unless it's running windows. 

[LAwLz]

23 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

What if the field trip is fully paid by Apple?

I mean, already Apple offer free computers to any school that is willing to sign an exclusivity deal with them. The School gets all the iMac's and iPad's they need, as long as there is no PCs in sign form the students eyes.

Source?

The reason why I ask is because those kinds of practices has been found illegal on several occasions, and it's a pretty big accusation you're making.

Besides, I think more schools would pick that offer if it actually existed, which I doubt.

 

 

I used to have classes in how to use Windows back when I was a pre-teen and I see very little difference in that and this school trip. In high school I had classes in how to use Photoshop and Premier. Both of those were structured that way because the schools I went to got special deals from PC manufacturers, Microsoft and Adobe, which they most certainly didn't do because of their good will but rather to get people used to their products so they would keep buying them.

The baby duck syndrome.

 

It would be interesting to see for-profit company products banned in schools and what affects that would have on the industry long-term. My guess is that software companies would see a quite large decline in users over time in favor of free alternatives.

[Radium_Angel]

2 hours ago, GabeThePCHelper said:

That sounds about right, this is also very wrong to do..

Never said anything about morality....

BTW, money and morality rarely intersect. The more you have of one, the less you have of the other

[pas008]

21 hours ago, k.m.p said:

Once people get into the apple ecosystem, its designed in a way to make is as difficult and hard as possible to leave it, you teach a kid that the best thing you can buy is an iphone and an Ipad, they will never think or look at anything else. At that age kids need to understand and appreciate the market as a whole, and the understanding of hardware/software that comes from figuring things out yourself is never there when everything given to you on a plate.

 

Its clear what the aim is, get kids into the apple ecosystem at a young age, and have customers for life that will never think to look for anything else.

I have witnessed many younger kids leave or bounce around it

eco systems is non issue now days with all the music apps and how easily everything can be loaded to any phone same with apps

20 hours ago, maartendc said:

Really, people seem to be blaming Apple, but who is really to blame here is the school / the teachers organizing these "field trips".

The school should have some principles and not allow their students to be subjected to advertising. If they want to learn about computers, take them on a field trip to the computer science dept of the nearest college/ university or something. Not this.

 

18 hours ago, Tristerin said:

If this happened in the US Id head straight to my states Capital building.  They would not think to use my State resources that I and my Countrymen provide.  I don't care if Apple pays for it.  This is exactly what is sounds like.  Advertising through our children.  

 

3 hours ago, maartendc said:

No, I am saying the parents shouldn't even come into the equation. The school should not organize the trip. End of story.

 

Are you going to organize a trip to Walmart the week after? This is just ridiculous. Unless they are getting some educational "behind the scenes" look at how the logistics of the store / operation work, there is ZERO.ZERO educational value.

 

 

for next 3 posts

education is ridiculously high in price

and teachers arent paid even close to their worth

so you want kids to be locked down in a classroom

or subject to a little advertising with the freedom of learning how the fucking real world works but any fucking video now days has advertisement

yet it be a tech/sales/owner

apple store actually shows alot of success no matter you dont like it

 

please tell me how a this sponsored trip is really all that bad because what an iphone? or ipad? really dont we all fucking have one any ways so whats the difference

[pas008]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Source?

The reason why I ask is because those kinds of practices has been found illegal on several occasions, and it's a pretty big accusation you're making.

Besides, I think more schools would pick that offer if it actually existed, which I doubt.

who cares who pays but in the end hopefully apple does

a little advertising isnt going to hurt any more than a youtube video or commerical on tv

 

get them out of the fucking classroom is key and very educational no matter what store

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, pas008 said:

who cares who pays but in the end hopefully apple does

I do, and I do for three reasons.

1) I don't like for profit companies having an influence on things like laws, much less on our education system, determining what our children learns. Companies should not see schools as an advertising target full of potential customers.

2) I like in Sweden and I pay a lot of tax. I have no problem paying a lot of tax, but I want that money to go towards good things and not spent frivolously.

3) The practices GoodBytes accused Apple of doing have been found to be illegal in some similar court cases. For example Microsoft and Intel have both been found guilty of illegal business practices doing similar things. If Apple does something like that they I believe they deserve to be punished too. The deal also sounds way too good to be true, to the point where I do not believe it.

[LinusTech]

On 2/20/2019 at 7:28 AM, Thaldor said:

How the hell do you even get through with idea about a field trip to any store? I could understand if it was some kind of marketing school but elementary schools are far from it.

I actually think from a life skills perspective going on a field trip to a grocery store with practical assignments like "find all the ingredients for cheese souffle for the best price" would be amazing.

 

Apple Store... not so much...

[Brooksie359]

8 minutes ago, pas008 said:

who cares who pays but in the end hopefully apple does

a little advertising isnt going to hurt any more than a youtube video or commerical on tv

 

get them out of the fucking classroom is key and very educational no matter what store

I would have to disagree. I went to a school with competent teachers that would teach me much more than what I would gain from a trip to an apple store. Time is a valuable resource and to waste it on something like this is actually detrimental to kids education and development. 

[Syntaxvgm]

Just now, LinusTech said:

I actually think from a life skills perspective going on a field trip to a grocery store with practical assignments like "find all the ingredients for cheese souffle for the best price" would be amazing.

 

Apple Store... not so much...

they found apples. 

[pas008]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I do, and I do for three reasons.

1) I don't like for profit companies having an influence on things like laws, much less on our education system, determining what our children learns. Companies should not see schools as an advertising target full of potential customers.

2) I like in Sweden and I pay a lot of tax. I have no problem paying a lot of tax, but I want that money to go towards good things and not spent frivolously.

3) The practices GoodBytes accused Apple of doing have been found to be illegal in some similar court cases. For example Microsoft and Intel have both been found guilty of illegal business practices doing similar things. If Apple does something like that they I believe they deserve to be punished too. The deal also sounds way too good to be true, to the point where I do not believe it.

 

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

I would have to disagree. I went to a school with competent teachers that would teach me much more than what I would gain from a trip to an apple store. Time is a valuable resource and to waste it on something like this is actually detrimental to kids education and development. 

lol

so advertisement is ok everywhere else but a class?

how much do you think it costs for a field trip?

and going to any store is a benefit to a child

they arent going to "buy" but they are taught what do look for and questioned on it many times over from my experiences with my kids

and as we are talking about costs, how much do you think a fucking teacher makes and how shitty schools have become with them having zero power to control the class room now days considering many aspects

soon no one will go to school to become educators

 

 

[Syntaxvgm]

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

 

lol

so advertisement is ok everywhere else but a class?

how much do you think it costs for a field trip?

and going to any store is a benefit to a child

they arent going to "buy" but they are taught what do look for and questioned on it many times over from my experiences with my kids

and as we are talking about costs, how much do you think a fucking teacher makes and how shitty schools have become with them having zero power to control the class room now days considering many aspects

soon no one will go to school to become educators

 

 

yah any store

when I was 4 they took my class to a butcher and showed us how to kill and process everything. 

Not sure that's helped since I didn't become a butcher. 

[Brooksie359]

2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

 

lol

so advertisement is ok everywhere else but a class?

how much do you think it costs for a field trip?

and going to any store is a benefit to a child

they arent going to "buy" but they are taught what do look for and questioned on it many times over from my experiences with my kids

and as we are talking about costs, how much do you think a fucking teacher makes and how shitty schools have become with them having zero power to control the class room now days considering many aspects

soon no one will go to school to become educators

 

 

No advertising is not ok everywhere else. There are many laws restricting advertising and this type of advertising is not ok. Again the time it would take to go on a field trip to an apple store would be much better used doing something else. I got outside of the classroom many times by simply going and doing things outside like creating bottle rockets and egg drops. These things don't cost alot yet are significantly more beneficial. 

[pas008]

9 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

yah any store

when I was 4 they took my class to a butcher and showed us how to kill and process everything. 

Not sure that's helped since I didn't become a butcher. 

doesnt matter butcher or not

running a store is still running a store

being part of a system is still being part of a system

5 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

No advertising is not ok everywhere else. There are many laws restricting advertising and this type of advertising is not ok. Again the time it would take to go on a field trip to an apple store would be much better used doing something else. I got outside of the classroom many times by simply going and doing things outside like creating bottle rockets and egg drops. These things don't cost alot yet are significantly more beneficial. 

wow, you thing educating and keeping interest in kids is easy?

 

please inform me of how to educate and interest my kids while keeping costs down? along with hopefully giving teachers more?

please write this up for me I will go to my pta meetings and city council meetings and talk with my political friends of why this can be done please inform me

 

alittle sponsorship and advertising will not hurt as long as its legally safe to the target audience

 

lol ltt has sponsor every video even a couple

it fucking pays costs to make things better

[Syntaxvgm]

3 minutes ago, pas008 said:

doesnt matter butcher or not

running a store is still running a store

being part of a system is still being part of a system

 

It did matter when I was for, at 4 I learned what cow brains looked like, watched a pig get electrocuted, and a cow get shot with the air gun, then processed all the way from cow to meat hook. 

Leaves an impression that I think should have waited until 8-10