response time vs refresh rate

madomadsen · February 20, 2019

Hey guys! Apex recently got me - as my aim sucks I ll do what any older gamer would do - throw money at the problem and upgrade! All kidding aside - I am curious on your experience with 144 hz and the response time of 1 vs 4 ms? I d like to stick with IPS but I would regret if 1ms is a gimmick you shouldnt miss playing fps game semi competitivly? Do you notice a difference between 1 tn and 4 ips ms? p.s. what do you think of this puppy Acer Nitro VG270UP 69 cm (27 Zoll) Monitor (2x HDMI, DisplayPort, ZeroFrame-Design, 1ms Reaktionszeit, 144Hz, WQHD Auflösung) schwarz https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07G9J35CQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_BMkBCbHWP9QV3 IPS with 1 ms through vrb technologie - never heard of that - is it any good compared to true 1 ms on tn panels?

p.s. any news on upcoming panels with similiar or better specks I should be waiting for?

Your opinions are greatly appreciated

Untitled · February 20, 2019

you won't notice the different between 1ms and 4ms unless your eye is a high speed camera.

for gaming, refresh rate is king. always go for higher refresh rate first.

tn panel always win in term of response time, but again, you won't notice it. unless you're professional player, every ms delay mean so much for them and they always go for tn.

SolarNova · February 20, 2019

13 hours ago, madomadsen said:

Hey guys! Apex recently got me - as my aim sucks I ll do what any older gamer would do - throw money at the problem and upgrade! All kidding aside - I am curious on your experience with 144 hz and the response time of 1 vs 4 ms? I d like to stick with IPS but I would regret if 1ms is a gimmick you shouldnt miss playing fps game semi competitivly? Do you notice a difference between 1 tn and 4 ips ms? p.s. what do you think of this puppy Acer Nitro VG270UP 69 cm (27 Zoll) Monitor (2x HDMI, DisplayPort, ZeroFrame-Design, 1ms Reaktionszeit, 144Hz, WQHD Auflösung) schwarz https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07G9J35CQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_BMkBCbHWP9QV3 IPS with 1 ms through vrb technologie - never heard of that - is it any good compared to true 1 ms on tn panels?

p.s. any news on upcoming panels with similiar or better specks I should be waiting for?

Your opinions are greatly appreciated

IGNORE manufacturer specified resposne times.

They mean almost nothing. There is no industry wide standard for response time. Most turn out to be incorrect, with 1ms Monitors regularly having an acutual resposne time of 4ms, and 5ms panels actualy being over 10ms. The closest they usualy come to is the 80% transition speed.

What you need to do is check proper reviews of any monitor u are interested in, ones that text pixel response.

Note: Make sure ur not mixing up response time with input lag.

Next you need to understand that at 144hz an ideal pixel response would be 7ms or less. While this sounds easy to find, remember that 'actual' pixel response is never the same as what the manufactuers advertise. Infact the only monitors that can achieve this are TN panels. IPS and VA have yet to get fast enough.

What will happen if u get a 144hz panel that is IPS or VA , is you will refresh at 144hz but the pixels wont be able to transition fully (100%) fast enough and will result in bluring, reducing the effectivness ,visualy, of the 144 refresh rate.

At 60hz u want a 100% pixel transiton speed of below 16ms.

at 120hz u want a 100% transition speed of below 8.3ms

At 144hz u want a 100% transition speed f below 7ms

at 200hz u want a 100% transiton speed of below 5ms

And at 240hz u want a 100% transiton speed of below 4.1ms

Regardless of these speeds however, you likely to notice ghosting at anything above 10ms, especialy if the 80% transtion speed is more than 4ms.

If a monitor also has BFI (black frame insertion) that will enhance the clarity of moving objects helping to reduce the effect of image persitence and slow pixel response.

One of the monitors i know of which does hit the right specs for 144hz is the Asus ROG Swift PG279Q (144hz, 80% time of 3.5ms and 100% time of 7.5ms), also has BFI/ULMB options. Now im sure there are others but this is one i know of. Its black performance isnt great being an IPS, but overall its good. it is ofc mroe expensive than the one you linked however.

madomadsen · February 20, 2019

1 hour ago, SolarNova said:

IGNORE manufacturer specified resposne times.

They mean almost nothing. There is no industry wide standard for response time. Most turn out to be incorrect, with 1ms Monitors regularly having an acutual resposne time of 4ms, and 5ms panels actualy being over 10ms. The closest they usualy come to is the 80% transition speed.

What you need to do is check proper reviews of any monitor u are interested in, ones that text pixel response.

Note: Make sure ur not mixing up response time with input lag.

Next you need to understand that at 144hz an ideal pixel response would be 7ms or less. While this sounds easy to find, remember that 'actual' pixel response is never the same as what the manufactuers advertise. Infact the only monitors that can achieve this are TN panels. IPS and VA have yet to get fast enough.

What will happen if u get a 144hz panel that is IPS or VA , is you will refresh at 144hz but the pixels wont be able to transition fully (100%) fast enough and will result in bluring, reducing the effectivness ,visualy, of the 144 refresh rate.

At 60hz u want a 100% pixel transiton speed of below 16ms.

at 120hz u want a 100% transition speed of below 8.3ms

At 144hz u want a 100% transition speed f below 7ms

at 200hz u want a 100% transiton speed of below 5ms

And at 240hz u want a 100% transiton speed of below 4.1ms

Regardless of these speeds however, you likely to notice ghosting at anything above 10ms, especialy if the 80% transtion speed is more than 4ms.

If a monitor also has BFI (black frame insertion) that will enhance the clarity of moving objects helping to reduce the effect of image persitence and slow pixel response.

One of the monitors i know of which does hit the right specs for 144hz is the Asus ROG Swift PG279Q (144hz, 80% time of 3.5ms and 100% time of 7.5ms), also has BFI/ULMB options. Now im sure there are others but this is one i know of. Its black performance isnt great being an IPS, but overall its good. it is ofc mroe expensive than the one you linked however.

This forum is awesome! thx for the infos!

I ll probably go for tn then -viewing angles I dont care about and the colors I ll check in reviews.

Currently I am on ultrawide 32" IPS with 60 fps(one of the first LGs) - its a dream for strategy or turn based titles but with fast moving fps titles I was never quite comfartable with it - thx to your info though - I now know what to look for - hopefully navi wont be a let down this year to power the new baby!