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SesMoge

Power Outlets PISSES LINUS OFF. [Discussion]

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Posted (edited) · Original PosterOP

We should take all the plug standards today, throw them all in a big crock pot, an cook up a plug that has all the benefits.

 

While we are at it, we might as well make it so easy to plug in, even a blind person could do it.

 

It shouldn’t be too hard if EVERYONE  agrees to replace all standards with something better. I mean, we did it with USB, and are currently doing it with USB-C. Can’t be that hard with power outlets, right?

 

43A49351-D8F0-4F91-BC6C-9BABC295D7BA.jpeg

Edited by SesMoge
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Yes, because it making adapters for "pre-unifying" shit and overhauling all the outlets everywhere isn't a pain in the ass at all.


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On 2/26/2019 at 2:37 AM, campy said:

when my girlfriend comes over and sees my dining room and kitchen counters covered in pc parts from pre 2006 she immediately takes off her clothes

nothing sexual, she just doesnt want the nerd dust on her clothes 

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5 minutes ago, SesMoge said:

PS: the picture; a student who designed a new wall thing for the europe standard:

 

https://www.dn.no/grundervirksomhet/design/kan-tjene-20-millioner-pa-skoleoppgaven-sin/1-1-5219583

That's pretty cool. Is the ground around the outside?


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9 minutes ago, flibberdipper said:

Yes, because it's making adapters for "pre-unifying" shit and overhauling all the outlets everywhere isn't a pain in the ass at all.

^^^. Is replacing every single outlet on the entire planet a better option than carrying some adapters? Cause if you don't replace 100% of them you'll need an adapter sometime. 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
15 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

That's pretty cool. Is the ground around the outside?

Not sure how or if they solved ground. I guess a ground ring, or contact point, or something would do the trick. 

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1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

^^^. Is replacing every single outlet on the entire planet a better option than carrying some adapters? Cause if you don't replace 100% of them you'll need an adapter sometime. 

Yes, because the things in your wall you're probably gonna replace once every 5-10 years, maybe less often.

Think of how much waste you have making all those adapters.

 

I think the easiest path would be to simply make legislation to require any new home or any update of electrical stuff in a home to install 220..240v outlets at least in places that would benefit from them (kitchen, for electric plates, heaters etc and near bathroom for washing machines, dryers etc, and garages for charging cars, unless there's an option to use tri-phase 380v or some alternative)

This way you could install the EU style plugs in US (as they're the most common and well known) and continue to use the old plugs for 110-130v only.

Gradually, houses would end up having 230v-ish plugs everywhere.

 

The EU plugs aren't the best (for example they're not keyed, which in rare cases can cause problems if a device has fuse only on the live wire

The UK plugs are much better, keyed, child proof, big earth prong, designed to have live and neutral wires break off before earth wire breaks if you pull hard on the cable to rip it out, have built in fuse, killer pain if you step on them ... but I don't expect to see both US and Europe switch to them.

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
8 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

^^^. Is replacing every single outlet on the entire planet a better option than carrying some adapters? Cause if you don't replace 100% of them you'll need an adapter sometime. 

I can only imagine the process would take a very, very, very long time. Like, the new plug would be standard in new houses, and leave the old houses alone.

 

At least there would hopefully be one and only standard for when we populate other planets. 

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11 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

^^^. Is replacing every single outlet on the entire planet a better option than carrying some adapters? Cause if you don't replace 100% of them you'll need an adapter sometime. 

In comes the GO GREEN'ers to lynch you, should they ever decide to do this.  I mean even I can agree this would be a 100% waste of time and literal energy.

 

The amount of ENERGY spent to dig the precious metals, the materials for plastics etc... just because?

 

Its nothing like USB, or USB C - there is zero benefit beyond...cords.

 

Sorry Bob quoted you but agreeing with you 100% lol


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1 minute ago, SesMoge said:

I can only imagine the process would take a very, very, very long time. Like, the new plug would be standard in new houses, and leave the old houses alone.

 

At least there would hopefully be one and only standard for when we populate other planets. 

There's a minuscule benefit to having everyone switch to a single unifying plug. Only a handful of people travel around enough for this to be a problem and even then, most times an adapter gets these people by since many electronics are now universal with regards to AC input.

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1 minute ago, Tristerin said:

Its nothing like USB, or USB C - there is zero benefit beyond...cords.

 

There is benefit ... higher voltage means less current.  You can have products which use more than 1600w (you're limited to 110v 15a or something like that, so you could have 230v 16A or around 2400w), like let's say induction cookers, electric plates, electric ovens, various kitchen devices.

Also switching power supplies are more efficient when running at higher voltages, like let's say 90% efficiency on 110v vs 92% efficiency on 230v

 

Other things that come to mind... it may make sense to come up with a standard to have 24v or 48v DC in the house. With more and more LED based lightning, pretty much every led bulb comes with either a cheap but poor efficiency capacitive dropper power supply or a switching power supply / led driver ...

We could have 24v or 48v DC for lightning, and that would make conversion more efficient and less problematic (less flickering etc)

There would be a problem with losses in cables but when we have 10-20w led bulbs vs 100w incadescent bulbs ...

 

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7 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yes, because the things in your wall you're probably gonna replace once every 5-10 years, maybe less often.

Think of how much waste you have making all those adapters.

And the waste of all old electronics and outlets is somehow better than adapters that really only a handful of people on this planet will use?


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On 2/26/2019 at 2:37 AM, campy said:

when my girlfriend comes over and sees my dining room and kitchen counters covered in pc parts from pre 2006 she immediately takes off her clothes

nothing sexual, she just doesnt want the nerd dust on her clothes 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

In comes the GO GREEN'ers to lynch you, should they ever decide to do this.  I mean even I can agree this would be a 100% waste of time and literal energy.

 

The amount of ENERGY spent to dig the precious metals, the materials for plastics etc... just because?

 

Its nothing like USB, or USB C - there is zero benefit beyond...cords.

 

Sorry Bob quoted you but agreeing with you 100% lol

Energy and resources, precius metals, isn’t this just a question of producing less of one and more of the other? Like, the amount of resources dug out is constant, regardless what is made? Them new houses will be built anyways.

 

Although it is true for those who travel little. And then when travelling, you already probably have an adapter.

 

Yeah, I don’t think worldwide standard power plug is an urgent problem these days. 

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While it's true you could make 240V flow through a plug/outlet that is 110V you certainly wouldn't be able to draw the same amount of current because its wires are probably thinner.

 

Also what SesMoge said, switching from one standard to another would take years, for example my house has outlets with round holes but new houses have outlets with flat holes (chinese model) and both are still in use except stuff that comes from China already have a plug with flat pins installed and are not compatible with the other type which sucks. 


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8 minutes ago, flibberdipper said:

And the waste of all old electronics and outlets is somehow better than adapters that really only a handful of people on this planet will use?

Few devices are truly 110v only - most manufacturers use same power supplies for multiple territories, just the cable changes.

So if your device has a removable power cable, then it's worth looking on the label on the back and if it says something like 80v .. 250v ac, then that device would work by simply changing the power cable.

If you have some vintage device that really only has 110v, then you could simply buy a 230v to 110v AC power converter, which can be something as simple as a plain old linear isolation transformer that converts 230v AC into 2 x 115v AC...

 

The outlets .. really, you only change them once every several years, 5-10 maybe even more years. The 110v ones in US are crappy design, they lack modern features, child safety, sometimes earthing, the benefits of changing those outlets would outweigh the costs.

And let's keep it real ... an outlet is like 100-200g (3.5-7 ounces) of plastic and metal - you have maybe 10-20 outlets in a regular apartment / house etc ... there's loads of other products that use loads more plastic and metal, like cars for example. 

 

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31 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yes, because the things in your wall you're probably gonna replace once every 5-10 years, maybe less often.

Not unless you're pushing well past what they're rated for.


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6 minutes ago, mariushm said:

And let's keep it real ... an outlet is like 100-200g (3.5-7 ounces) of plastic and metal - you have maybe 10-20 outlets in a regular apartment / house etc ... there's loads of other products that use loads more plastic and metal, like cars for example. 

 

Hey 🅱️ig 🅱️rain gang, this is a weak argument considering its more material than an adapter, considerably more in fact because the unification BS would require replacing every outlet that there is.

 

And then this argon-brain material...

Quote

really, you only change them once every several years, 5-10 maybe even more years.

The hell are you doing? Plugging in a car and letting it hang off the outlet?


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On 2/26/2019 at 2:37 AM, campy said:

when my girlfriend comes over and sees my dining room and kitchen counters covered in pc parts from pre 2006 she immediately takes off her clothes

nothing sexual, she just doesnt want the nerd dust on her clothes 

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Been using those cool guys (Type L) since I was born and I got surprised to see how other countries outlets are strange when I first travelled abroad

image.png.04dd62f03de93c6e90d08a9e61c75cd1.png

Even if the european CEI standard (not schuko) is similar to this and it's compatible, but without ground


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wtf is this?
image.png.e37013ec742b91abd595bab64bbe48e6.png

42 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yes, because the things in your wall you're probably gonna replace once every 5-10 years, maybe less often.

Think of how much waste you have making all those adapters.


In my grandma house the outlets are 40 years old and they still work properly, the standard is still the same here and the grip has not loosen up during time

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1 minute ago, flibberdipper said:

Hey 🅱️ig 🅱️rain gang, this is a weak argument considering its more material than an adapter, considerably more in fact because the unification BS would require replacing every outlet that thre is.

 

And then this argon-brain material...

The hell are you doing? Plugging in a car and letting it hang off the outlet?

 

The outlet may have more plastic and metal than an adapter, but a person would buy an adapter for every device here's gonna have, because most people can't be bothered to unplug one device, remove the adapter, put the adapter on the other device he/she wants to use and so on..

 

Anyway, you could make legislation and stuff that would not force everyone to switch right away, but only require to ADD outlets besides existing ones, or upgrade outlets only for some purposes (as I explained) or for some usage scenarios (if user wants solar panels for example, tesla power wall and the likes, if user wants a car charge in garage etc)

This way people would slowly upgrade over the course of years.

 

As for your question.. outlets don't have to be replaced often, I agree. I was simply accounting for scenarios like people wanting to paint the walls in a room to another color and want to match the color of the outlets to the new color, so they'll probably replace the outlets as well.

Also, if I buy a house, I wouldn't trust the outlets, I would call an electrician and have him replace the outlets with new ones, and test the grounding at the same time. So assuming houses are bought and sold every decade or so ... you could have outlets replaced that often in SOME houses.

 

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1 minute ago, Lukyp said:

Been using those cool guys (Type L) since I was born and I got surprised to see how other countries outlets are strange when I first travelled abroad

image.png.04dd62f03de93c6e90d08a9e61c75cd1.png

 

The problem with those is the pins can bend... let's say the outlet is  1 meter from the ground or at some height (not near the bottom) and a device falls down and pulls down on the cable.

Or you have a kid that can't reach the outlet but pulls sideways on the cable ... the plug could come out with the pins bent.

And another flaw with that design ... how are your power strips designed? Can you break the middle earth pin or use a version with no earth pin to insert the plug between two sockets/outlets?

 

I mean.. you probably have to pretty much use such splitters

 

image.png.59bdf3c4400685f13f06c259bbc8e625.png

and not this design which may make it possible to connect a plug between two sockets:

 

image.png.59b06e0e1de350c31f6562b8d08dc43a.png

 

and this design makes it difficult to have power strips where each socket is at 45 degrees because then the bus bars inside may be too close to each other, so you could have sparks and arcs between them

With regular EU sockets, you can have power strips which have the sockets at 45 degree, which increases the density and makes room for cables coming out the plugs at 90 degree angle.  And you can plug things from either direction Here's an example:

 

image.png.ad1765f276471b1155e7d0c6475cd7a3.png

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, SesMoge said:

Energy and resources, precius metals, isn’t this just a question of producing less of one and more of the other? Like, the amount of resources dug out is constant, regardless what is made? Them new houses will be built anyways.

 

Although it is true for those who travel little. And then when travelling, you already probably have an adapter.

 

Yeah, I don’t think worldwide standard power plug is an urgent problem these days. 

Have you calculated the amount of "energy" is used running a lightbulb in todays standard, for lets say 100 years...versus replacing just 1 receptacle.  

 

I haven't done the math, this is your idea so I challenge you to do so, to support your claims - how much energy in watts is consumed in a lightbulb running 5 years in current standard (we will say, US perhaps?) and then the amount of energy required to "create" a single receptacle.  

 

Convince me with facts that this is the way to pave forward.

 

 


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USB C as the benchmark is actually horrible. It's not nearly as reliable as Type A, and still a pain to plug in. I'll keep my type A ports.


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48 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

In comes the GO GREEN'ers to lynch you, should they ever decide to do this.  I mean even I can agree this would be a 100% waste of time and literal energy.

 

The amount of ENERGY spent to dig the precious metals, the materials for plastics etc... just because?

 

Its nothing like USB, or USB C - there is zero benefit beyond...cords.

 

Sorry Bob quoted you but agreeing with you 100% lol

for things like this it doesn't need to be a sudden switch forcing an unusual spike in production and sales of a new product, but rather a gradual change over as new buildings are built. Also (probably not affected by outlet standards but...) if a new standard increases power use efficiency, then the benefits have the potential to outweight the negative costs of a new production.

1 hour ago, SesMoge said:

We should take all the plug standards today, throw them all in a big crock pot, an cook up a plug that has all the benefits.

While we are at it, we might as well make it so easy to plug in, even a blind person could do it.

It shouldn’t be too hard if EVERYONE  agrees to replace all standards with something better. I mean, we did it with USB, and are currently doing it with USB-C. Can’t be that hard with power outlets, right?

for standardization sake, we don't need more than use of the three prong design shown a few comments above this. If a focus on blind or handicapped is given, then little more than an angle is needed.

I've got two hole designs here that can apply to the three pronged center ground design above

image.png.3b92192a907aa79154e89aa94c76d960.png

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