Jump to content

Power Outlets PISSES LINUS OFF. [Discussion]

SesMoge
1 hour ago, SesMoge said:

We should take all the plug standards today, throw them all in a big crock pot, an cook up a plug that has all the benefits.

 

While we are at it, we might as well make it so easy to plug in, even a blind person could do it.

 

It shouldn’t be too hard if EVERYONE  agrees to replace all standards with something better. I mean, we did it with USB, and are currently doing it with USB-C. Can’t be that hard with power outlets, right?

 

43A49351-D8F0-4F91-BC6C-9BABC295D7BA.jpeg

There's at least some reason why outlets are different.

 

Example: North America uses the NEMA 5-15R Receptacle, which uses 120V (+/- 5V) at 15A. If you plugged a 220V item into it, it wouldn't work. If you plugged a 120V item into a 220V circuit, you'd probably blow the 120V item up.

 

Plus you've got to get every country to agree on the standard. You've also got to differentiate between different voltages and amps.

 

Examples (All North American plugs):

NEMA 5-15P (125V 15A max)

Spoiler

original.jpg

 

NEMA 5-20P (125V 20A max)

Spoiler

s-l300.jpg

Note how it's backwards compatible with a 5-15P plug, but a 5-20P plug cannot fit into a 5-15R receptacle.

 

NEMA 5-30P (125V 30A max)

Spoiler

yp-90l.jpg

 

And then you've got the higher voltage plugs, which are a different set entirely.

 

Even in a single country, there are at least a half dozen different plug standards used, due to different usages and requirements.

For Sale: Meraki Bundle

 

iPhone Xr 128 GB Product Red - HP Spectre x360 13" (i5 - 8 GB RAM - 256 GB SSD) - HP ZBook 15v G5 15" (i7-8850H - 16 GB RAM - 512 GB SSD - NVIDIA Quadro P600)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the biggest issue is implementing the change. The biggest issue is getting everyone to agree on it.

 

It's a damn miracle even two countries agree on something for perpetuity. Let alone a country agreeing on nationalizing something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The problem with those is the pins can bend... let's say the outlet is  1 meter from the ground or at some height (not near the bottom) and a device falls down and pulls down on the cable.

 

Or you have a kid that can't reach the outlet but pulls sideways on the cable ... the plug could come out with the pins bent.

Never seen one bent in this way, I don't think the kind of contact they have make this possible... I can't connect a single pin to try to bent even if I try with just one single side of it, the only time I broke one was when I was accidentally moving a furniture on the side of it but at this point I think every plug would broke

The most common thing I seen happen is the outlets just becoming loose when you plug something and really crappy if you force one with a shucko plug (some people do that because stupidity) which enlarges the hole and makes any future contact with a type L plug very very crappy
 

36 minutes ago, mariushm said:

And another flaw with that design ... how are your power strips designed? Can you break the middle earth pin or use a version with no earth pin to insert the plug between two sockets/outlets?

I mean.. you probably have to pretty much use such splitters

 

and not this design which may make it possible to connect a plug between two sockets:

 

and this design makes it difficult to have power strips where each socket is at 45 degrees because then the bus bars inside may be too close to each other, so you could have sparks and arcs between them

With regular EU sockets, you can have power strips which have the sockets at 45 degree, which increases the density and makes room for cables coming out the plugs at 90 degree angle.  And you can plug things from either direction Here's an example:

The 16A is grounded everytime with 3 pins while the 10A just sometimes, but the 10A is a bit smaller so this does not happen, but why should some people broke one tho and then put it between two? While I still don't think it's possible, why should people broke plugs? This is dangerous with every one...
Btw still I find very hard to break one, but for any plug of any country I tried so far, I don't know how they are made inside but certainly it's not that easy to remove the ground without any strong nipper

Btw L plugs with a 45 degree angle are very rare, most of the time are just straight so they don't interfere with each other
 

Spoiler


The only thing I know here is that inside the outlet the two poles have a plastic insulation first that makes sure the earth is connected first, and protects against accidental contact on both plug and outlet

Btw those hurted no one since they were made so I think they are safe

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

for things like this it doesn't need to be a sudden switch forcing an unusual spike in  apply to the three pronged center ground design above

image.png.3b92192a907aa79154e89aa94c76d960.png

They actually look like the one on the right in the inside of the outlet...

 

wops I double posted sorry

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

There's at least some reason why outlets are different.

 

Example: North America uses the NEMA 5-15R Receptacle, which uses 120V (+/- 5V) at 15A. If you plugged a 220V item into it, it wouldn't work. If you plugged a 120V item into a 220V circuit, you'd probably blow the 120V item up. 

  Reveal hidden contents

original.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

s-l300.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

yp-90l.jpg

 

Most consumer electronics with switching power supplies don't give a damn about voltage or frequency now. Look at your laptop's PSU, it'll look something like this:

 

image.png.1d390ee7e5d37226827cd07993b55d24.png

This object can be plugged into a local outlet anywhere in the world and it'll probably work. There's some weirdness with stuff that isn't natively able to auto-adjust to 110/220, but these objects typically have a voltage switch (e.g. power supplies meant for LED displays). This is why these travel adapters work; There's no smarts in them, they're just fit-all plugs that mostly make enough connection to work.

 

Literally the best thing to take with you to another country is a C5/6 grounded cable (or C7 ungrounded cable) with the local plug. Your laptop PSU doesn't give a damn. If it's got the CE (Conformitee European) mark it's meant to be sold in Europe. Going to Britain? Take one of these: image.png.701b498f864c181e05a4ffc68c5cd59d.png

Going elsewhere in Europe?

image.png.4a642413770a769f4516fdd724790b1e.png

They're like, $10, plus they're a lot safer. Plus, a nice long one (I like 2-3M long) means you're never searching for an outlet because there's always an outlet if you're brave enough to stand on chairs.

 

I hacked an IEC connector onto my old fixed-plug laptop and enshrined it in clear resin to make it look "official" and folks really didn't give me a hard time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, indrora said:

 

Most consumer electronics with switching power supplies don't give a damn about voltage or frequency now. Look at your laptop's PSU, it'll look something like this:

 

image.png.1d390ee7e5d37226827cd07993b55d24.png

This object can be plugged into a local outlet anywhere in the world and it'll probably work. There's some weirdness with stuff that isn't natively able to auto-adjust to 110/220, but these objects typically have a voltage switch (e.g. power supplies meant for LED displays). This is why these travel adapters work; There's no smarts in them, they're just fit-all plugs that mostly make enough connection to work.

 

Literally the best thing to take with you to another country is a C5/6 grounded cable (or C7 ungrounded cable) with the local plug. Your laptop PSU doesn't give a damn. If it's got the CE (Conformitee European) mark it's meant to be sold in Europe. Going to Britain? Take one of these: image.png.701b498f864c181e05a4ffc68c5cd59d.png

Going elsewhere in Europe?

image.png.4a642413770a769f4516fdd724790b1e.png

They're like, $10, plus they're a lot safer. Plus, a nice long one (I like 2-3M long) means you're never searching for an outlet because there's always an outlet if you're brave enough to stand on chairs.

 

I hacked an IEC connector onto my old fixed-plug laptop and enshrined it in clear resin to make it look "official" and folks really didn't give me a hard time.

I'm not talking about devices with auto-sensing power supplies that are capable of both 120V and 220V. Sure most consumer electronics would be fine, but plenty of other things wouldn't be.

 

Besides... that's not even the point. That was just a side anecdote of how things could go horribly wrong.

 

You're always going to have a need for different Voltages and Amperages being supplied, so one universal plug simply isn't going to work. You could - say - standardize all the different voltages/amperages needed into a series of plugs, but that's not realistic.

 

At best, we might see some global standardization happen when colonization of the solar system starts to happen. So, get that moon base coming, and we'll see.

 

Either way, the concept of a universal plug sounds good, but as many have pointed out, it's quite simply not realistic, and would take decades (at best) to pay off.

For Sale: Meraki Bundle

 

iPhone Xr 128 GB Product Red - HP Spectre x360 13" (i5 - 8 GB RAM - 256 GB SSD) - HP ZBook 15v G5 15" (i7-8850H - 16 GB RAM - 512 GB SSD - NVIDIA Quadro P600)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

image.png.acd6e32b0b2cecd11664a72a10094f2b.png

Yep.

 

It would have to be legally enforced by every government. And even then, it would likely only affect new construction/renovations.

 

And even in that best case scenario, anyone with the new property would have to buy adapters.

 

Or everyone else would have to buy adapters.

 

Either way, lots of people buying adapters.

 

#adapterindustryconspiracy

For Sale: Meraki Bundle

 

iPhone Xr 128 GB Product Red - HP Spectre x360 13" (i5 - 8 GB RAM - 256 GB SSD) - HP ZBook 15v G5 15" (i7-8850H - 16 GB RAM - 512 GB SSD - NVIDIA Quadro P600)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, mariushm said:

This way you could install the EU style plugs in US 

Pls call it by its name:
Its the GERMAN Plugs.

Aka Schuko

 

3 hours ago, mariushm said:

The EU plugs aren't the best (for example they're not keyed, which in rare cases can cause problems if a device has fuse only on the live wire

There is a simple solution if you absolutely need it keyed:
Use the French Plug.

This one:

https://www.banggood.com/16A-EU-Outlet-ABS-Copper-French-Standard-Power-Single-Plug-Wall-Socket-p-1121105.html?cur_warehouse=CN

 

3 hours ago, mariushm said:

The UK plugs are much better, keyed, child proof, big earth prong, designed to have live and neutral wires break off before earth wire breaks if you pull hard on the cable to rip it out, have built in fuse, killer pain if you step on them ... but I don't expect to see both US and Europe switch to them.

The UK Plugs are shit.

Try using them. And watch Bigclive...

They are big, clunky and if you step on them, its really bad as they lie on the ground with the metal to the sky so that it really hurts.

 

The Child "Proof" stuff is bogus as there are Child Proof Schuko Outlets as well.

for example:
https://www.e-material.de/epages/17883757.mobile/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/17883757/Products/Bj20EUCKS-214

 

 

The "Europlugs" that you know and get are compatible with both Schuko and the French stuff...

 

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SesMoge said:

It shouldn’t be too hard if EVERYONE  agrees to replace all standards with something better. I mean, we did it with USB, and are currently doing it with USB-C. Can’t be that hard with power outlets, right?

How about we get all countries using the same measurement system first. Can't be that hard, right?
 

Spoiler

image.png.787b1cc8c497c864c9f5a8da8196864d.png

 

CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x16GB 3000MHz Corsair Vengeance LPX | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Arctic Freezer 34 eSports | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB + Crucial MX500 2TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, flibberdipper said:

Yes, because it's making adapters for "pre-unifying" shit and overhauling all the outlets everywhere isn't a pain in the ass at all.

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ertman said:

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

Incorrect conclusion. Newer outlets were backwards compatible with the old non-grounded plugs that used to be common. 

 

There was simply no downside to switching to the new three prong grounded sockets with new construction, aside from say - economic factors like cost - since all of the existing equipment was already immediately compatible with the new sockets. 

 

Even if it ends up ultimately a better idea, you can’t directly compare the two. 

For Sale: Meraki Bundle

 

iPhone Xr 128 GB Product Red - HP Spectre x360 13" (i5 - 8 GB RAM - 256 GB SSD) - HP ZBook 15v G5 15" (i7-8850H - 16 GB RAM - 512 GB SSD - NVIDIA Quadro P600)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ertman said:

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

Not sure what you're tying to get at but no. Only buildings that seem to use them are old houses that haven't been electrically updated for whatever reason.

Main rig on profile

VAULT - File Server

Spoiler

Intel Core i5 11400 w/ Shadow Rock LP, 2x16GB SP GAMING 3200MHz CL16, ASUS PRIME Z590-A, 2x LSI 9211-8i, Fractal Define 7, 256GB Team MP33, 3x 6TB WD Red Pro (general storage), 3x 1TB Seagate Barracuda (dumping ground), 3x 8TB WD White-Label (Plex) (all 3 arrays in their respective Windows Parity storage spaces), Corsair RM750x, Windows 11 Education

Sleeper HP Pavilion A6137C

Spoiler

Intel Core i7 6700K @ 4.4GHz, 4x8GB G.SKILL Ares 1800MHz CL10, ASUS Z170M-E D3, 128GB Team MP33, 1TB Seagate Barracuda, 320GB Samsung Spinpoint (for video capture), MSI GTX 970 100ME, EVGA 650G1, Windows 10 Pro

Mac Mini (Late 2020)

Spoiler

Apple M1, 8GB RAM, 256GB, macOS Sonoma

Consoles: Softmodded 1.4 Xbox w/ 500GB HDD, Xbox 360 Elite 120GB Falcon, XB1X w/2TB MX500, Xbox Series X, PS1 1001, PS2 Slim 70000 w/ FreeMcBoot, PS4 Pro 7015B 1TB (retired), PS5 Digital, Nintendo Switch OLED, Nintendo Wii RVL-001 (black)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

My grandma's house is 60 years old, has grounding, and the sockets are still good. Why bother?

 

And switching NA to 220V would cost billions at best. Why not use that money for a infrastructure projects, like building a HSR line that would actually save more energy than switching NA to 220V?

 

And also, All my appliances are rated for 115V only, and I don't want to spend $6000 on new appliances and gadgets. Who is paying for this?

PSU Nerd | PC Parts Flipper | Cable Management Guru

Helpful Links: PSU Tier List | Why not group reg? | Avoid the EVGA G3

Helios EVO (Main Desktop) Intel Core™ i9-10900KF | 32GB DDR4-3000 | GIGABYTE Z590 AORUS ELITE | GeForce RTX 3060 Ti | NZXT H510 | EVGA G5 650W

 

Delta (Laptop) | Galaxy S21 Ultra | Pacific Spirit XT (Server)

Full Specs

Spoiler

 

Helios EVO (Main):

Intel Core™ i9-10900KF | 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V / Team T-Force DDR4-3000 | GIGABYTE Z590 AORUS ELITE | MSI GAMING X GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GPU | NZXT H510 | EVGA G5 650W | MasterLiquid ML240L | 2x 2TB HDD | 256GB SX6000 Pro SSD | 3x Corsair SP120 RGB | Fractal Design Venturi HF-14

 

Pacific Spirit XT - Server

Intel Core™ i7-8700K (Won at LTX, signed by Dennis) | GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS GAMING 5 | 16GB Team Vulcan DDR4-3000 | Intel UrfpsgonHD 630 | Define C TG | Corsair CX450M

 

Delta - Laptop

ASUS TUF Dash F15 - Intel Core™ i7-11370H | 16GB DDR4 | RTX 3060 | 500GB NVMe SSD | 200W Brick | 65W USB-PD Charger

 


 

Intel is bringing DDR4 to the mainstream with the Intel® Core™ i5 6600K and i7 6700K processors. Learn more by clicking the link in the description below.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ertman said:

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

That's (mostly) Japan IIRC...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is absolutely absurd. It's not just a matter of making everyone use the same plug. There would have to be universal code requirements, safety standards, retraining of tradespeople... Not to mention the cost of replacing literal billions of plugs so some bloke from the UK can charge his iPhone when he travels. This is a complete non-issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

are all the wirings consistent in colour everywhere? (brown is live etc) i vaguely remember there are two sets/kinds of wall wiring colours

Of course NOT!

At least in EU its standardized - even though Clive don't like it.

 

Here in Germany we used Black as Phase, grey as Neutral and, if available, RED as Ground/Earth. That was the really old shit. THe more modern one was Black: L1, L3, Brown L2 and Blue Neutral.

The New Standard is Brown/Black/Grey and Blue stayed neutral.

 

Clive said that in the old British System Red was the Phase, Neutral was black and the Earth Green/Yellow...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for the UK or Australian plug.  I like the idea of the world having one outlet like they di with USB.  It might not be an easy path but if every appliance doesn't need to ship with a power cord and every power cord is identical then not only will we use less materials, but we'll have cheaper appliances. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they should all be combined into one and every plug have a switch. It's most common to find switches on power outlets in UK and Australia. This is a good idea

Universal-USB-Wall-Socket-AC90-250V-Double-USB-Charger-Australian-AU-Plug-Wall-Socket-Home-Power.jpg

untitled.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

as long as places like the USA want to run antiquated power delivery, where energy loss is so big, then we need to run diversified plugs. building intelligence into the plugs is simply too expensive.

 

but a standardized 220-240v delivery system is the way forward, it will also cheapen all components, since you do not have to build in 110v/220v options. 

 

but the infrastructure update, is extremely expensive, i remember, how much it actually is, to build in the full scale powerconversion, on f.ex. a windmill, so it could both deliver 50hz or 60hz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

+1 for the UK or Australian plug.  I like the idea of the world having one outlet like they di with USB.  It might not be an easy path but if every appliance doesn't need to ship with a power cord and every power cord is identical then not only will we use less materials, but we'll have cheaper appliances. 

The main problem is if they begin to introduce them in people's homes, all their existing appliances won't work, they can't buy as many second-hand goods and it could be harder to sell the house on. It's one thing to have a good idea, but you need it to sell well in many aspects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, floofer said:

The main problem is if they begin to introduce them in people's homes, all their existing appliances won't work, they can't buy as many second-hand goods and it could be harder to sell the house on. It's one thing to have a good idea, but you need it to sell well in many aspects.

Short term pain for long term gain. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Incorrect conclusion. Newer outlets were backwards compatible with the old non-grounded plugs that used to be common. 

 

There was simply no downside to switching to the new three prong grounded sockets with new construction, aside from say - economic factors like cost - since all of the existing equipment was already immediately compatible with the new sockets. 

 

Even if it ends up ultimately a better idea, you can’t directly compare the two. 

Speaking incorrect conclusions... In all fairness, it purposely vague, and I guess the conclusion you drew was reasonable.

 

I wasn't trying to compare the two. The idea I was floating is that we are not incapable of changing. Even with the aspect of it being able to be backwards compatible, which adapters will satisfy well enough, people had to adapt to new fangled equipment with a third pin plug before, I think we can handle a few adapters (in either direction).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

honestly lets get wireless power everywhere and we wont have to bother with any of this. linus did a basic presentation of it once.

if we invested more into researching that and somehow could make it possible that'd be awesome. 

or if youre really hardcore you could just cut the connectors off entirely and have 2 - 3 cables that you connect directly to an outlet box like you do with speakers on an amp. :D

"You know it'll clock down as soon as it hits 40°C, right?" - "Yeah ... but it doesnt hit 40°C ... ever  😄"

 

GPU: MSI GTX1080 Ti Aero @ 2 GHz (watercooled) CPU: Ryzen 5600X (watercooled) RAM: 32GB 3600Mhz Corsair LPX MB: Gigabyte B550i PSU: Corsair SF750 Case: Hyte Revolt 3

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, floofer said:

The main problem is if they begin to introduce them in people's homes, all their existing appliances won't work,

If its just standardizing on a plug and not changing the voltage, I disagree.

As you can use a simple Adaptor.

Price of that change isn't high either...

If you do plug in replacements, that is really easy to do...

Especially if you know someone that knows someone that happen to be an Electrician.

 

A good quality Schuko inlet is normally around 5€ or so, you might need some kind of Frame as well if you have multiple outlets...

 

Here the price of a Schuko Outlet:

https://www.elektricworld24.de/schalterprogramme/busch-jaeger/busch-balance-si/steckdosen-balance-si/2363/busch-jaeger-balance-si-20euc-914-steckdose?gclid=CjwKCAiAkrTjBRAoEiwAXpf9CZPJPemq3cMI3P_n4uus0hTR0GERY2YUNyAlf0B-j_qmxS9mJLQ9DxoC3ZkQAvD_BwE

 

Was just one of the first and its Busch-Jäger, wich are pretty good. And its 2,71€/piece. So for 100 Outlets less than 300€.

But who has 100 in a house??
Normal is something like 1-2 Dozend...

 

So its really not a big deal.

 

But I disagree with the overengineered British Plug. THat one is just shit and probably rather expensive. Schuko a good Compromize. Or the French Plug if you need Polarized...

 

3 hours ago, floofer said:

they can't buy as many second-hand goods and it could be harder to sell the house on.

If we talk about a Plug Change without Voltage, no.

You will be able to get an adaptor.

 

Germany also did change the plugs a couple of times.

Back in the Day there was "Type C" common.

 

And also we had the so called "Kragenstecker", wich was forbidden.

Forbidden as in totally forbidden, must not be used. If you have that shit, you have to replace it forbidden.

 

3 hours ago, floofer said:

It's one thing to have a good idea, but you need it to sell well in many aspects.

Selling is not a Problem as the Outlets are dirt cheap.

The Plugs are not much more...

Like 2,5€, something like that.

 

So replacing 10 Outlets and Plugs is like 50€, that's pretty cheap.

ANd if you do that, there will be "conversion kits" sold for old Plugs. Nikon uses something like that on their Batter Charger...

 

And with some kind of State Sponsorship, its really not that big of a deal. Just really annoying...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×