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SesMoge

Power Outlets PISSES LINUS OFF. [Discussion]

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Since someone mentioned the UK plugs, I figured I'd post this:

 

 

The multi-adapters are terrifying as well. The one that Linus actually showed in the video is __amazing__ because it includes a feature that most people didn't even know about! In the UK or parts of Europe, it turns into a free lamp tester! The ever wonderful Big Clive talks about them here:

 

 

One of the safety things that we in the US are more and more commonly seeing (and something that to this day saves lives and eliminates those nasty shocks that Linus so hates) are RCD devices. They've been part of the US National Electric Code for some time now and are super cool, and Technology Connections has a wonderful video on how they work over here:

 

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1 hour ago, SesMoge said:

We should take all the plug standards today, throw them all in a big crock pot, an cook up a plug that has all the benefits.

 

While we are at it, we might as well make it so easy to plug in, even a blind person could do it.

 

It shouldn’t be too hard if EVERYONE  agrees to replace all standards with something better. I mean, we did it with USB, and are currently doing it with USB-C. Can’t be that hard with power outlets, right?

 

43A49351-D8F0-4F91-BC6C-9BABC295D7BA.jpeg

There's at least some reason why outlets are different.

 

Example: North America uses the NEMA 5-15R Receptacle, which uses 120V (+/- 5V) at 15A. If you plugged a 220V item into it, it wouldn't work. If you plugged a 120V item into a 220V circuit, you'd probably blow the 120V item up.

 

Plus you've got to get every country to agree on the standard. You've also got to differentiate between different voltages and amps.

 

Examples (All North American plugs):

NEMA 5-15P (125V 15A max)

Spoiler

original.jpg

 

NEMA 5-20P (125V 20A max)

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s-l300.jpg

Note how it's backwards compatible with a 5-15P plug, but a 5-20P plug cannot fit into a 5-15R receptacle.

 

NEMA 5-30P (125V 30A max)

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yp-90l.jpg

 

And then you've got the higher voltage plugs, which are a different set entirely.

 

Even in a single country, there are at least a half dozen different plug standards used, due to different usages and requirements.


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I don't think the biggest issue is implementing the change. The biggest issue is getting everyone to agree on it.

 

It's a damn miracle even two countries agree on something for perpetuity. Let alone a country agreeing on nationalizing something.

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36 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The problem with those is the pins can bend... let's say the outlet is  1 meter from the ground or at some height (not near the bottom) and a device falls down and pulls down on the cable.

 

Or you have a kid that can't reach the outlet but pulls sideways on the cable ... the plug could come out with the pins bent.

Never seen one bent in this way, I don't think the kind of contact they have make this possible... I can't connect a single pin to try to bent even if I try with just one single side of it, the only time I broke one was when I was accidentally moving a furniture on the side of it but at this point I think every plug would broke

The most common thing I seen happen is the outlets just becoming loose when you plug something and really crappy if you force one with a shucko plug (some people do that because stupidity) which enlarges the hole and makes any future contact with a type L plug very very crappy
 

36 minutes ago, mariushm said:

And another flaw with that design ... how are your power strips designed? Can you break the middle earth pin or use a version with no earth pin to insert the plug between two sockets/outlets?

I mean.. you probably have to pretty much use such splitters

 

and not this design which may make it possible to connect a plug between two sockets:

 

and this design makes it difficult to have power strips where each socket is at 45 degrees because then the bus bars inside may be too close to each other, so you could have sparks and arcs between them

With regular EU sockets, you can have power strips which have the sockets at 45 degree, which increases the density and makes room for cables coming out the plugs at 90 degree angle.  And you can plug things from either direction Here's an example:

The 16A is grounded everytime with 3 pins while the 10A just sometimes, but the 10A is a bit smaller so this does not happen, but why should some people broke one tho and then put it between two? While I still don't think it's possible, why should people broke plugs? This is dangerous with every one...
Btw still I find very hard to break one, but for any plug of any country I tried so far, I don't know how they are made inside but certainly it's not that easy to remove the ground without any strong nipper

Btw L plugs with a 45 degree angle are very rare, most of the time are just straight so they don't interfere with each other
 

Spoiler


The only thing I know here is that inside the outlet the two poles have a plastic insulation first that makes sure the earth is connected first, and protects against accidental contact on both plug and outlet

Btw those hurted no one since they were made so I think they are safe

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35 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

for things like this it doesn't need to be a sudden switch forcing an unusual spike in  apply to the three pronged center ground design above

image.png.3b92192a907aa79154e89aa94c76d960.png

They actually look like the one on the right in the inside of the outlet...

 

wops I double posted sorry

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3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

There's at least some reason why outlets are different.

 

Example: North America uses the NEMA 5-15R Receptacle, which uses 120V (+/- 5V) at 15A. If you plugged a 220V item into it, it wouldn't work. If you plugged a 120V item into a 220V circuit, you'd probably blow the 120V item up. 

  Reveal hidden contents

original.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

s-l300.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

yp-90l.jpg

 

Most consumer electronics with switching power supplies don't give a damn about voltage or frequency now. Look at your laptop's PSU, it'll look something like this:

 

image.png.1d390ee7e5d37226827cd07993b55d24.png

This object can be plugged into a local outlet anywhere in the world and it'll probably work. There's some weirdness with stuff that isn't natively able to auto-adjust to 110/220, but these objects typically have a voltage switch (e.g. power supplies meant for LED displays). This is why these travel adapters work; There's no smarts in them, they're just fit-all plugs that mostly make enough connection to work.

 

Literally the best thing to take with you to another country is a C5/6 grounded cable (or C7 ungrounded cable) with the local plug. Your laptop PSU doesn't give a damn. If it's got the CE (Conformitee European) mark it's meant to be sold in Europe. Going to Britain? Take one of these: image.png.701b498f864c181e05a4ffc68c5cd59d.png

Going elsewhere in Europe?

image.png.4a642413770a769f4516fdd724790b1e.png

They're like, $10, plus they're a lot safer. Plus, a nice long one (I like 2-3M long) means you're never searching for an outlet because there's always an outlet if you're brave enough to stand on chairs.

 

I hacked an IEC connector onto my old fixed-plug laptop and enshrined it in clear resin to make it look "official" and folks really didn't give me a hard time.

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12 minutes ago, indrora said:

 

Most consumer electronics with switching power supplies don't give a damn about voltage or frequency now. Look at your laptop's PSU, it'll look something like this:

 

image.png.1d390ee7e5d37226827cd07993b55d24.png

This object can be plugged into a local outlet anywhere in the world and it'll probably work. There's some weirdness with stuff that isn't natively able to auto-adjust to 110/220, but these objects typically have a voltage switch (e.g. power supplies meant for LED displays). This is why these travel adapters work; There's no smarts in them, they're just fit-all plugs that mostly make enough connection to work.

 

Literally the best thing to take with you to another country is a C5/6 grounded cable (or C7 ungrounded cable) with the local plug. Your laptop PSU doesn't give a damn. If it's got the CE (Conformitee European) mark it's meant to be sold in Europe. Going to Britain? Take one of these: image.png.701b498f864c181e05a4ffc68c5cd59d.png

Going elsewhere in Europe?

image.png.4a642413770a769f4516fdd724790b1e.png

They're like, $10, plus they're a lot safer. Plus, a nice long one (I like 2-3M long) means you're never searching for an outlet because there's always an outlet if you're brave enough to stand on chairs.

 

I hacked an IEC connector onto my old fixed-plug laptop and enshrined it in clear resin to make it look "official" and folks really didn't give me a hard time.

I'm not talking about devices with auto-sensing power supplies that are capable of both 120V and 220V. Sure most consumer electronics would be fine, but plenty of other things wouldn't be.

 

Besides... that's not even the point. That was just a side anecdote of how things could go horribly wrong.

 

You're always going to have a need for different Voltages and Amperages being supplied, so one universal plug simply isn't going to work. You could - say - standardize all the different voltages/amperages needed into a series of plugs, but that's not realistic.

 

At best, we might see some global standardization happen when colonization of the solar system starts to happen. So, get that moon base coming, and we'll see.

 

Either way, the concept of a universal plug sounds good, but as many have pointed out, it's quite simply not realistic, and would take decades (at best) to pay off.


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3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

image.png.acd6e32b0b2cecd11664a72a10094f2b.png

Yep.

 

It would have to be legally enforced by every government. And even then, it would likely only affect new construction/renovations.

 

And even in that best case scenario, anyone with the new property would have to buy adapters.

 

Or everyone else would have to buy adapters.

 

Either way, lots of people buying adapters.

 

#adapterindustryconspiracy


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3 hours ago, mariushm said:

This way you could install the EU style plugs in US 

Pls call it by its name:
Its the GERMAN Plugs.

Aka Schuko

 

3 hours ago, mariushm said:

The EU plugs aren't the best (for example they're not keyed, which in rare cases can cause problems if a device has fuse only on the live wire

There is a simple solution if you absolutely need it keyed:
Use the French Plug.

This one:

https://www.banggood.com/16A-EU-Outlet-ABS-Copper-French-Standard-Power-Single-Plug-Wall-Socket-p-1121105.html?cur_warehouse=CN

 

3 hours ago, mariushm said:

The UK plugs are much better, keyed, child proof, big earth prong, designed to have live and neutral wires break off before earth wire breaks if you pull hard on the cable to rip it out, have built in fuse, killer pain if you step on them ... but I don't expect to see both US and Europe switch to them.

The UK Plugs are shit.

Try using them. And watch Bigclive...

They are big, clunky and if you step on them, its really bad as they lie on the ground with the metal to the sky so that it really hurts.

 

The Child "Proof" stuff is bogus as there are Child Proof Schuko Outlets as well.

for example:
https://www.e-material.de/epages/17883757.mobile/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/17883757/Products/Bj20EUCKS-214

 

 

The "Europlugs" that you know and get are compatible with both Schuko and the French stuff...

 


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3 hours ago, SesMoge said:

It shouldn’t be too hard if EVERYONE  agrees to replace all standards with something better. I mean, we did it with USB, and are currently doing it with USB-C. Can’t be that hard with power outlets, right?

How about we get all countries using the same measurement system first. Can't be that hard, right?
 

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image.png.787b1cc8c497c864c9f5a8da8196864d.png

 


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i'm gonna have my first house done with international wall sockets ._.

 

actually quick question: are all the wirings consistent in colour everywhere? (brown is live etc) i vaguely remember there are two sets/kinds of wall wiring colours

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5 hours ago, flibberdipper said:

Yes, because it's making adapters for "pre-unifying" shit and overhauling all the outlets everywhere isn't a pain in the ass at all.

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

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2 minutes ago, Ertman said:

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

Incorrect conclusion. Newer outlets were backwards compatible with the old non-grounded plugs that used to be common. 

 

There was simply no downside to switching to the new three prong grounded sockets with new construction, aside from say - economic factors like cost - since all of the existing equipment was already immediately compatible with the new sockets. 

 

Even if it ends up ultimately a better idea, you can’t directly compare the two. 


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6 minutes ago, Ertman said:

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

Not sure what you're tying to get at but no. Only buildings that seem to use them are old houses that haven't been electrically updated for whatever reason.


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My grandma's house is 60 years old, has grounding, and the sockets are still good. Why bother?

 

And switching NA to 220V would cost billions at best. Why not use that money for a infrastructure projects, like building a HSR line that would actually save more energy than switching NA to 220V?

 

And also, All my appliances are rated for 115V only, and I don't want to spend $6000 on new appliances and gadgets. Who is paying for this?


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1 hour ago, Ertman said:

Is all of the US still using the non-grounded outlets that were common pre-1969?

That's (mostly) Japan IIRC...


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This is absolutely absurd. It's not just a matter of making everyone use the same plug. There would have to be universal code requirements, safety standards, retraining of tradespeople... Not to mention the cost of replacing literal billions of plugs so some bloke from the UK can charge his iPhone when he travels. This is a complete non-issue.

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2 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

are all the wirings consistent in colour everywhere? (brown is live etc) i vaguely remember there are two sets/kinds of wall wiring colours

Of course NOT!

At least in EU its standardized - even though Clive don't like it.

 

Here in Germany we used Black as Phase, grey as Neutral and, if available, RED as Ground/Earth. That was the really old shit. THe more modern one was Black: L1, L3, Brown L2 and Blue Neutral.

The New Standard is Brown/Black/Grey and Blue stayed neutral.

 

Clive said that in the old British System Red was the Phase, Neutral was black and the Earth Green/Yellow...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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+1 for the UK or Australian plug.  I like the idea of the world having one outlet like they di with USB.  It might not be an easy path but if every appliance doesn't need to ship with a power cord and every power cord is identical then not only will we use less materials, but we'll have cheaper appliances. 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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as long as places like the USA want to run antiquated power delivery, where energy loss is so big, then we need to run diversified plugs. building intelligence into the plugs is simply too expensive.

 

but a standardized 220-240v delivery system is the way forward, it will also cheapen all components, since you do not have to build in 110v/220v options. 

 

but the infrastructure update, is extremely expensive, i remember, how much it actually is, to build in the full scale powerconversion, on f.ex. a windmill, so it could both deliver 50hz or 60hz

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

+1 for the UK or Australian plug.  I like the idea of the world having one outlet like they di with USB.  It might not be an easy path but if every appliance doesn't need to ship with a power cord and every power cord is identical then not only will we use less materials, but we'll have cheaper appliances. 

The main problem is if they begin to introduce them in people's homes, all their existing appliances won't work, they can't buy as many second-hand goods and it could be harder to sell the house on. It's one thing to have a good idea, but you need it to sell well in many aspects.

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13 minutes ago, floofer said:

The main problem is if they begin to introduce them in people's homes, all their existing appliances won't work, they can't buy as many second-hand goods and it could be harder to sell the house on. It's one thing to have a good idea, but you need it to sell well in many aspects.

Short term pain for long term gain. 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Incorrect conclusion. Newer outlets were backwards compatible with the old non-grounded plugs that used to be common. 

 

There was simply no downside to switching to the new three prong grounded sockets with new construction, aside from say - economic factors like cost - since all of the existing equipment was already immediately compatible with the new sockets. 

 

Even if it ends up ultimately a better idea, you can’t directly compare the two. 

Speaking incorrect conclusions... In all fairness, it purposely vague, and I guess the conclusion you drew was reasonable.

 

I wasn't trying to compare the two. The idea I was floating is that we are not incapable of changing. Even with the aspect of it being able to be backwards compatible, which adapters will satisfy well enough, people had to adapt to new fangled equipment with a third pin plug before, I think we can handle a few adapters (in either direction).

 

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