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Rosss

Is Star Citizen a giant scam?

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4 hours ago, Jet_ski said:

Roberts Space Industries is the Theranos of the gaming industry. If it had been setup as a corporation with investors instead of a kickstarter with backers, they’d be in so much trouble. And that’s the scam part of it: they never delivered anything solid because they made vague promises.

Setting things up as a corporation with investors is no guarantee of solid promises. Look at the dot coms from the 90s. Look at the WeWork situation. Look at the ongoing undercurrent of real estate "investment" schemes. If RSI/CIG was defying the laws of financial gravity, it'd be a different situation; it'd show that they were hiding their true financial nature, then they'd go bust in a wave of scandals and that's when everybody'd find out how much the top brass had profited while maintaining little more than a shell company. That kind of methodology is much easier to do with venture capital and traditional investment methods; crowdfunded backers are a quicker, dirtier business that usually involve something that looks too good to be true. Whereas with Star Citizen, it's been a rocky ride for certain, with moments where it loked like the whole thing might come to a complete end.

 

But it hasn't, and it's only gotten better and better as time goes on. Sometimes, it's not about the finished product; it's about being part of the development process as it goes along, something a lot of other video game companies can seriously learn from.


What is a mad scientist but a wizard who writes things down?

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Topic is old, but I keep seeing people saying "Star Citizen" isn't a scam. How wrong can you be. Let me break down several types of scammers since I deal with them a lot as an investor and I want to shed light how these people operate in terms of "legality" and what they do to get by, by the skin of their teeth while still robbing you on your money. Robert is not a saint and he have in the past ripped people off of their money. That alone should give you a clear warning of his personality and what he's really after. Instead of trying fall for all the speculation talk, the features, this, and that... Understand that Robert has been accused of the same type of situation before.

 

Lets skip all the details and go straight to his bank account. How much is Robert banking off of this crowd-funding and what he makes selling speculative products? He's net worth is $76 Million in USD. Let that sink in for a bit once you understand that they do not have a working product and yet, they're selling speculative products that you don't even own nor are you guaranteed to it. Chris Roberts has no background in gaming, the industry of gaming, how it works, and how it is run. Once he received the crowdfunding, it's by law that he shows work towards that project in which he receive that funding for. In essence, he can claim to have started something, but never give you a working product, ever. They can keep this going year by year while still getting paid because morons are still purchasing their speculative products from their website and he's getting paid millions a year off your money, and you have nothing to show for it.

 

What is speculative product? Think Bitcoin, think cryptocurrencies, think tulip mania. All they need is hype and a bunch of deceitful words to "promise" you that they are "working" on something. I can go on-and-on about this situation and how regular normies get caught up in such hype and retardation, that they don't realize how they are in-fact being scammed while the scammers are doing it legally. Lets get something straight, they are working on the product, the problem is, they themselves know this game is a massive let-down and every hype BS they come up with to make the game more appeasing, is just that... BS. They will keep doing this, keep selling their speculative trash products until the game is finally released in 2030. By then, they already made their money, and it doesn't matter if the product is trash when it's finally released, they wouldn't give care because they made their money by scamming you legally for 20 years.

 

It's time to stop calling games like this, "legit" because it is not. Deception, fraud, and lies can all work under the legal system. Just because they're doing it legally, doesn't mean what they're doing isn't wrong. I suggest you all stop funding this game, stop purchasing their speculative products, until they DELIVER on their words. Until then, call it fraud and marketing scam.

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20 hours ago, c00face said:

Topic is old, but I keep seeing people saying "Star Citizen" isn't a scam. How wrong can you be. Let me break down several types of scammers since I deal with them a lot as an investor and I want to shed light how these people operate in terms of "legality" and what they do to get by, by the skin of their teeth while still robbing you on your money. Robert is not a saint and he have in the past ripped people off of their money. That alone should give you a clear warning of his personality and what he's really after. Instead of trying fall for all the speculation talk, the features, this, and that... Understand that Robert has been accused of the same type of situation before.

 

Lets skip all the details and go straight to his bank account. How much is Robert banking off of this crowd-funding and what he makes selling speculative products? He's net worth is $76 Million in USD. Let that sink in for a bit once you understand that they do not have a working product and yet, they're selling speculative products that you don't even own nor are you guaranteed to it. Chris Roberts has no background in gaming, the industry of gaming, how it works, and how it is run. Once he received the crowdfunding, it's by law that he shows work towards that project in which he receive that funding for. In essence, he can claim to have started something, but never give you a working product, ever. They can keep this going year by year while still getting paid because morons are still purchasing their speculative products from their website and he's getting paid millions a year off your money, and you have nothing to show for it.

 

What is speculative product? Think Bitcoin, think cryptocurrencies, think tulip mania. All they need is hype and a bunch of deceitful words to "promise" you that they are "working" on something. I can go on-and-on about this situation and how regular normies get caught up in such hype and retardation, that they don't realize how they are in-fact being scammed while the scammers are doing it legally. Lets get something straight, they are working on the product, the problem is, they themselves know this game is a massive let-down and every hype BS they come up with to make the game more appeasing, is just that... BS. They will keep doing this, keep selling their speculative trash products until the game is finally released in 2030. By then, they already made their money, and it doesn't matter if the product is trash when it's finally released, they wouldn't give care because they made their money by scamming you legally for 20 years.

 

It's time to stop calling games like this, "legit" because it is not. Deception, fraud, and lies can all work under the legal system. Just because they're doing it legally, doesn't mean what they're doing isn't wrong. I suggest you all stop funding this game, stop purchasing their speculative products, until they DELIVER on their words. Until then, call it fraud and marketing scam.

This is the stupidest post i have ever read, "what you've just said...is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul".

 

Chris Roberts has a huge background in gaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(video_game_developer). In addition to that he has been involved with several movies, his net worth is not tied to this title directly, it is just one of many projects he has been a part of. 

 

You have no clue what you are talking about and anyone that thinks this game is a a scam is a either a complete moron or completely ignorant and does not understand the meaning of the word. BBC just done this piece https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000cglv no scam found.

 

This will clue you in to the other myths surrounding this game

 

https://scfocus.org/star-citizen-myths/

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55 minutes ago, c00face said:

Is that so? You literally didn't read anything I just said. Before you open your stupid mouth and calling something stupid without reading, I suggest you re-evaluate yourself. Next time, try understanding the context of the post before being quick to type. It'll save you a lot of trouble.

 

I have every clue on what I am talking about. Of course it's labelled as not a scam. Maybe you didn't get the part where I differentiate between what is legal and what is morally wrong. Oh, how silly of me to suggest you would... I can already tell you didn't. Go fuck off somewhere kid.

 

---

 

You know what, I was just going to leave it at that. I decided to school your dumb ass. Lets talk about Chris Roberts, $90~ Million Net Worth. Keep donating your money to this "non-scammer." I'm sure he appreciate your belief in 'Star Citizen' while burning through your wallet. There's a fine line kid, between what you can do legally and what you can't. Most scammers, big corporations work in the scope of the law to scam your dumb ass while not having the title of a 'scammer'. I'm sure that's too hard for a moron like you to understand.

 

Let tell you exactly whats going to happen when Star-Citizen is finally released. All your hope and hype about the game will come crashing down because you realize you funded and donated your money to something that didn't live up to their promises. Legally, it's not a scam. Morally, it is a scam. Notice the words I used, until they deliver, it's a bunch of lies. But I see morons like you everyday who is just to fucking stupid to discern for yourself. It's no wonder you idiots like you have problems with money and who to trust.

 

But hey, keep posting links of fucking BBC TELLING YOU WHAT IS NOT A SCAM. Fuck, how fucking stupid are you to let a fucking website tell you what isn't a scam and what is. Try using your own fucking brain.

Read the whole erroneous post you made and factually refuted it. All your whining and crying is for nought.

 

IT IS NOT A SCAM IN ANY FORM OR FASHION!

 

As I figured when I replied initially you likely don't don't have the capacity to understand the difference between fact (my comments) and fiction (your comments). Don't worry tho' you are in good company with all the other haters that don't have a clue.

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2 minutes ago, c00face said:

Yea... I can tell you're ___. Give Apple your money please. Go buy some shares, and when you die and lose all your money and ask Apple to help you. Lets see if they lift their finger to even give you a phone call on your death bed.

 

Time to wise up kiddo.

Well I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Apple so there is that lol. 

 

As far as kiddo, heh, that's a compliment at my age ;)

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3 minutes ago, c00face said:

Hey man, try not to wink at someone who YOU literally started off insulting by calling "moron, stupid, etc..." Maybe you wouldn't get blasted so hard.

 

"Absolutely nothign whatsoever to do with Apple..." Yea, I have no hope for you, good bye.

Moronic posts get called out. If you don't want to be associated with the stigma don't make posts that provide such evidence. IIRC, I also use the descriptor ignorant which can be anyone about a given subject but for some reason you chose to harp on the term moron....interesting.

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So here’s an interesting article I saw the other day. Crytek asks judge to delay their lawsuit against Cloud Imperium Games until Squadron 42 is released. Crytek believes the game won’t be released in 2020 and think the lawsuit won’t be actionable until the game is released. Here’s some of what the Crytek lawyers said about the release of Squadron 42:

 

Crytek refers to a redacted comment by Cloud Imperium during its discovery phase wherein it claims the developer had not yet decided how Squadron 42 would be released and stating, “While this came as a surprise to Crytek (and undoubtedly will to the public who has pre-paid for Squadron 42), assuming the truth of CIG’s response, Crytek’s Squadron 42 claim is not yet ripe.”

 

Here’s an excerpt from Euro Gamer:

There is also a dispute over whether CIG switched from CryEngine to Lumberyard for Star Citizen and Squadron 42, as CIG has indicated. Here's Crytek in the motion to dismiss:

"This case has been marked by a pattern of CIG saying one thing in its public statements and another in this litigation. For example, at the outset of this case, CIG had publicly claimed it had switched to using the Lumberyard Engine for both Star Citizen and Squadron 42, but was forced to confirm during this litigation that no such switch had taken place."

 

I’m not sure how this will impact Star Citizen and Squadron 42 besides the release date because the legal corporate structure of the CIG/Robert Space Industries is unknown to me. If it wasn’t a crowdfunded project, the developer could release the game and then pay off the lawsuit if they lost. But here people have already paid for the game!! Also if they lose the case, the judge will slap them with fines too, Crytek could ask for a % of sales which would be even worse. What is certain is that they won’t be able to just switch a game engine that easily. And I’ve heard the other engine still uses Crytek under the hood so CIG won’t get out of it that easily. 

I actually feel bad for the people who bought in and waited.


Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/01/06/software-developer-seeks-to-delay-its-suit-against-makers-of-the-over-300-million-game-star-citizen/amp/

EuroGamer:

https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2020-01-04-crytek-wants-to-dismiss-its-own-lawsuit-against-the-star-citizen-developer-until-squadron-42-comes-out


PCGamesN:

http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/crytek-lawsuit-motion-to-dismiss%3famp

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7 minutes ago, Jet_ski said:

So here’s an interesting article I saw the other day. Crytek asks judge to delay their lawsuit against Cloud Imperium Games until Squadron 42 is released. Crytek believes the game won’t be released in 2020 and think the lawsuit won’t be actionable until the game is released. Here’s some of what the Crytek lawyers said about the release of Squadron 42:

 

Crytek refers to a redacted comment by Cloud Imperium during its discovery phase wherein it claims the developer had not yet decided how Squadron 42 would be released and stating, “While this came as a surprise to Crytek (and undoubtedly will to the public who has pre-paid for Squadron 42), assuming the truth of CIG’s response, Crytek’s Squadron 42 claim is not yet ripe.”

 

Here’s an excerpt from Euro Gamer:

There is also a dispute over whether CIG switched from CryEngine to Lumberyard for Star Citizen and Squadron 42, as CIG has indicated. Here's Crytek in the motion to dismiss:

"This case has been marked by a pattern of CIG saying one thing in its public statements and another in this litigation. For example, at the outset of this case, CIG had publicly claimed it had switched to using the Lumberyard Engine for both Star Citizen and Squadron 42, but was forced to confirm during this litigation that no such switch had taken place."

 

I’m not sure how this will impact Star Citizen and Squadron 42 besides the release date because the legal corporate structure of the CIG/Robert Space Industries is unknown to me. If it wasn’t a crowdfunded project, the developer could release the game and then pay off the lawsuit if they lost. But here people have already paid for the game!! Also if they lose the case, the judge will slap them with fines too, Crytek could ask for a % of sales which would be even worse. What is certain is that they won’t be able to just switch a game engine that easily. And I’ve heard the other engine still uses Crytek under the hood so CIG won’t get out of it that easily. 

I actually feel bad for the people who bought in and waited.


Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/01/06/software-developer-seeks-to-delay-its-suit-against-makers-of-the-over-300-million-game-star-citizen/amp/

EuroGamer:

https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2020-01-04-crytek-wants-to-dismiss-its-own-lawsuit-against-the-star-citizen-developer-until-squadron-42-comes-out


PCGamesN:

http://www.pcgamesn.com/star-citizen/crytek-lawsuit-motion-to-dismiss%3famp

The Crytek suit is all but dead in the water. The judge already dismissed the bulk of their claims in 2018 ( https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/07/a-judge-has-dismissed-another-chunk-of-the-cryteks-star-citizen-engine-lawsuit/ ) . This is an attempt by Crytek to get out of the case, which they will never refile, without forfeiting the 500k (for CIGs legal expenses) the judge required them to put up in the event (when) they lose. Nothing Crytek states (the excerpt from Eurogamer) is based on fact, just their opinion. 

 

As far as the engine, Star Engine has been switched to Lumberyard for around 3 years now IIRC. Lumberyard is based on Cryengine and Star Engine is a fork of both but that has nothing to do with the license that CIG has from Amazon to use Lumberyard. 

 

This page shows the games being built with Lumberyard:

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

 

This article from 2016 has direct quotes from Chris Roberts about the switch:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/241674-star-citizen-developer-chris-roberts-clarifies-engine-change-promises-move-amazons-lumberyard-wont-delay-game

 

 

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18 minutes ago, george357 said:

The Crytek suit is all but dead in the water. The judge already dismissed the bulk of their claims in 2018 ( https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/07/a-judge-has-dismissed-another-chunk-of-the-cryteks-star-citizen-engine-lawsuit/ ) . This is an attempt by Crytek to get out of the case, which they will never refile, without forfeiting the 500k (for CIGs legal expenses) the judge required them to put up in the event (when) they lose. Nothing Crytek states (the excerpt from Eurogamer) is based on fact, just their opinion. 

 

As far as the engine, Star Engine has been switched to Lumberyard for around 3 years now IIRC. Lumberyard is based on Cryengine and Star Engine is a fork of both but that has nothing to do with the license that CIG has from Amazon to use Lumberyard. 

 

This page shows the games being built with Lumberyard:

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/

 

This article from 2016 has direct quotes from Chris Roberts about the switch:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/241674-star-citizen-developer-chris-roberts-clarifies-engine-change-promises-move-amazons-lumberyard-wont-delay-game

 

 

If Squadron 42 isn’t released this year, would you concede that CIG lies to their backers, as the Crytek lawyers are saying?

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54 minutes ago, Jet_ski said:

If Squadron 42 isn’t released this year, would you concede that CIG lies to their backers, as the Crytek lawyers are saying?

No.

 

SQ42 is not been, at any time, stated by CIG to release this year. The Roadmap ( https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/2-Squadron-42 ) states that Q3 this year for BETA. This will not be an open Beta that anyone outside of CIG gets to play. With all the leaks I doubt even the Evocati will be involved with the Beta testing of SQ42. Additionally, any and all dates on the Roadmap or otherwise are NOT promises of any kind. These are general statements about what they hope to achieve. Blockers can arise at any time. 

 

There is no way whatsoever, to state with any accuracy, that CIG or Chris Roberts has ever lied to their backers. Lying must have the component of making a statement with the knowledge it is not true. I have not seen any evidence of that ever taking place. Have they made ambitious or even outlandish predictions? Yeah that may have happened but that's not lying. 

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23 hours ago, george357 said:

No.

 

SQ42 is not been, at any time, stated by CIG to release this year. The Roadmap ( https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/2-Squadron-42 ) states that Q3 this year for BETA. This will not be an open Beta that anyone outside of CIG gets to play. With all the leaks I doubt even the Evocati will be involved with the Beta testing of SQ42. Additionally, any and all dates on the Roadmap or otherwise are NOT promises of any kind. These are general statements about what they hope to achieve. Blockers can arise at any time. 

 

There is no way whatsoever, to state with any accuracy, that CIG or Chris Roberts has ever lied to their backers. Lying must have the component of making a statement with the knowledge it is not true. I have not seen any evidence of that ever taking place. Have they made ambitious or even outlandish predictions? Yeah that may have happened but that's not lying. 

Is there a number of years after which if the game isn’t released you’d accept Robert & Co are liers? Like 2 more years?

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1 hour ago, Jet_ski said:

Is there a number of years after which if the game isn’t released you’d accept Robert & Co are liers? Like 2 more years?

Unless there is some form of proof that shows CIG/Chris Roberts actually knew  game was not going to come out there are no lies at any time frame. If the game don't come out at all it would be a failure for sure but failing does not equal lying.

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That's the key thing here. Star Citizen is an extremely ambitious project, probably too ambitious for the state of technology at the moment, much less when it was kick-started, however it is also, pretty much, the only large scale space game in the industry right now. The only thing comparable is No Man's Sky, and that is still a relatively limited in scope. 

 

Basically the only other space shooters available if this type,or even close to this type are games dating back 20 years or more, and Elite Dangerous, which both came later and accrued a very strong pay-to-win reputation when it did arrive. It's playing in a very empty market space, where there's still a lot of untapped demand. 

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Disclaimer, I dropped over 1k on it during the first couple of years but since then I have stopped following development closely. 

 

That said, what I HAVE seen leads me to believe it's not a scam, but it's a supremely poorly managed project.  Chris Roberts has a history of creep and scope management apparently, to the point where publishers had to push things along.  I think the excessive ship selling and development time compared to planets or world assets is to ensure a continued flow of cash just to keep things rolling.  

 

I feel like this project will either eventually lose its whales and fall apart or it'll stay in perpetual development because Chris is incapable of managing feature creep.


Quinnell - PC Gaming Enthusiast

 

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@Quinnell If you've already got a game pack, it's worth taking a look at it again. It's still very much in alpha with the associated mind-bending bugs, but it looks like they've either gotten a new head or revamped how they do things, so it appears over the last two years they've actually gotten a cadence going. 

 

At this point, the base player systems seem to be mostly in the game, and you can go do things. What they seem to be working on now is how to get the procedural world generators actually working. 

 

It's not a product yet, but flying around in it has been worth at least the time to download and get it set up for me. We'll see if it's still fun after a month or so, but for now I'm having a good time, even with the beds occasionally dropping me into space lol... 

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i dont think its a scam. ive spent some money into it but no 15k and i cant believe they charge some of the cash they do but im a sucker ive spent probably all together 8 bills into the game. its cool they are making progress. its just MASSSSSSIVE SCALE!

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On 2/17/2019 at 4:11 AM, Rosss said:

Now, I do not know much about Star Citizen. Maybe you all can tell me if it's living up to the hype.

 

It's just that I recently binge watched all of the WAN show archive, and they mentioned Star Citizen quite a lot, back from like 2012 when it was still fresh (and they talked about how they can't wait for it to be released as if it was on the horizon).

 

Seeing as it's been in development for so long, and got funded quite a lot-- what's going on?

 

Like, is the stuff they made/developed years ago even usable now?

 

Is it a no-man's sky case, or did they maybe scrap a bunch of work they weren't happy with?

 

Has respect for Chris Roberts dwindled? In the archive they were so fond of him lol

 

Thanks for the info-- I'm too lazy to do a historical study on this, so I figured maybe some peeps who were along for the ride can explain it!

it has a very big scope but 

developments are being made and the money is being used to develop the game so it is not a scam

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? I think its comical how this game gets preferential treatment with its own sub forum. Just goes to show how revered this game really is, for achieving little to nothing. You would think Chris Roberts is our lord and savior with the way a lot of the fans, his disciples have reacted over the years to anyone giving constructive feedback they deem to be "too negative" or whatever, getting people suspended and banned from the SC forum. I mean, I guess this game is supposed to change the world, the very fabric of society itself with the amount of hype its gotten, that has yet to be fulfilled mind you. 


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On 2/22/2020 at 10:49 PM, BlackManINC said:

? I think its comical how this game gets preferential treatment with its own sub forum. Just goes to show how revered this game really is, for achieving little to nothing. You would think Chris Roberts is our lord and savior with the way a lot of the fans, his disciples have reacted over the years to anyone giving constructive feedback they deem to be "too negative" or whatever, getting people suspended and banned from the SC forum. I mean, I guess this game is supposed to change the world, the very fabric of society itself with the amount of hype its gotten, that has yet to be fulfilled mind you. 

Pretty sure your trolling but your wrong.

This game got its own sub forum because of this original community, we had a big following of people, second largest at one point and now the 6th but we had one thread that moved so quickly it made sense but when we started to meet in game the forum wasn't adequate enough, so we moved to an early addition of discord and "abandoned" the forum when it started getting toxic.

 

That community has now become its own gaming community where we all meet up and we have a few seasonal games, we usually jump on VC and criticise a lot of the game. We wave the LTT banner more than the SC. I believe that the only reason why this forum exists is so we don't lose the original plans on here.

 

May have achieved little to nothing to you but I can find plenty of people who would disagree, as well as write a large list of things it has achieved.

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59 minutes ago, rentaspoon said:

Pretty sure your trolling but your wrong.

This game got its own sub forum because of this original community, we had a big following of people, second largest at one point and now the 6th but we had one thread that moved so quickly it made sense but when we started to meet in game the forum wasn't adequate enough, so we moved to an early addition of discord and "abandoned" the forum when it started getting toxic.

 

That community has now become its own gaming community where we all meet up and we have a few seasonal games, we usually jump on VC and criticise a lot of the game. We wave the LTT banner more than the SC. I believe that the only reason why this forum exists is so we don't lose the original plans on here.

 

May have achieved little to nothing to you but I can find plenty of people who would disagree, as well as write a large list of things it has achieved.

I'm sure they can give us a laundry list of so called "achievements". Thing is though, all those achievements still add up to little to nothing since the game is still at alpha stage almost ten years later. I'll start to care if the game at least hits beta stage at some point within our lifetimes, and gets to a point to where it is playable on my PC. This is of course assuming the whole project doesn't go tits up beforehand. 


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On 2/17/2019 at 4:18 AM, Radium_Angel said:

Ego and feature creep. A combination that is a real game killer. Witness Duke Nukem Forever and No Man's Sky.

 

Also the prices to be a bug tester are weapons-grade insanity.

What prices are you talking about? game packs cost around 40$.... 30 if you can get them on a good occasion. I'd not call that insane.
Of course if you want to start the game with a whole fleet you can go overboard... but that's up to you entirely then.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 1/15/2020 at 9:45 PM, Quinnell said:

Disclaimer, I dropped over 1k on it during the first couple of years but since then I have stopped following development closely. 

 

That said, what I HAVE seen leads me to believe it's not a scam, but it's a supremely poorly managed project.  Chris Roberts has a history of creep and scope management apparently, to the point where publishers had to push things along.  I think the excessive ship selling and development time compared to planets or world assets is to ensure a continued flow of cash just to keep things rolling.  

 

I feel like this project will either eventually lose its whales and fall apart or it'll stay in perpetual development because Chris is incapable of managing feature creep.

Yeah you can't really deny it's been terribly mismanaged. Not only when looking at the roadmaps they promised from the kickstarter, but the absolutely mental amount of funding it received. How could they not come even close to delivering within that amount of funding? It's like quoting someone to do a project, and choosing to deliver a shell or milk the customer out of money. They indeed chose to do both, and it's going to leave a lasting sour taste probably for the remainder of the project. 

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