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Rosss

Is Star Citizen a giant scam?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Now, I do not know much about Star Citizen. Maybe you all can tell me if it's living up to the hype.

 

It's just that I recently binge watched all of the WAN show archive, and they mentioned Star Citizen quite a lot, back from like 2012 when it was still fresh (and they talked about how they can't wait for it to be released as if it was on the horizon).

 

Seeing as it's been in development for so long, and got funded quite a lot-- what's going on?

 

Like, is the stuff they made/developed years ago even usable now?

 

Is it a no-man's sky case, or did they maybe scrap a bunch of work they weren't happy with?

 

Has respect for Chris Roberts dwindled? In the archive they were so fond of him lol

 

Thanks for the info-- I'm too lazy to do a historical study on this, so I figured maybe some peeps who were along for the ride can explain it!

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5 minutes ago, Rosss said:

what's going on?

Ego and feature creep. A combination that is a real game killer. Witness Duke Nukem Forever and No Man's Sky.

 

Also the prices to be a bug tester are weapons-grade insanity.


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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Basically Short story is the crowd funding happened in 2012... from then they were a team of like 12 i think or something. They had to build up the company(its at 500+ now people), Heavily modify cryengine to work with the game they wanted(64 bit conversion, procedural tech, etc), and yes feature creep tho that has stopped(mostly). The first few years were mostly spent building the company/engine/tools to actually build the game, stuff you normally do not see companies do in the public light. Now its at a point where (hopefully) the single player game will launch next year(they plan a marketing campaign with some new investor money later this year). The online portion is being built and is likely a few years before it reaches the full 100+ star systems promised.  They made missteps with outside contractors early on which didnt work out and forced a lot of reworks so they brought all development in house and ofc CR let his imagination run away but overall no its not a scam. If it was, they are the worst scammers in history(what scammer actually spends most of the money on the product they are scamming you with).

 

As for the prices, Its the same price to get a PU game package as most games, $45-60 which lets you download and test the PU in its current state, . They do sell ships for alot more but thats to fund the development of the game and not required as everything can be earned in the PU when it stops getting reset after server meshing development is finished.

 

In the end we will get the single player game next year likely and some form of the online game that was promised in the months/years to follow as that will be updated quarterly


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No it is not a scam by any stretch of the imagination. It is still a few years from actual release, I would guess Beta around 2021-2022 if no major blockers arise in that time. There were many issues over the years including having to build the company from the ground up, completely alternating and rewriting a large part of the base game engine and developing new tech to support what they are trying to do. Additionally they are building two games at the same time, Star Citizen the MMO/Space SIM and Squadron 42 a single player game that is going to have something around 28 chapters and have at least two sequels. You don't have to play SQ42 but those that do will have some benefits of that carry over into Star Citizen.

 

As DesolationGod stated all you need is the base game package to play which is $45 USD without Squadron 42 and $65 USD with SQ42. There are some very expensive ships and ship packages available for those that want to put more money into the development process but is in no way necessary. All ships will be earnable in game with ingame currency. 

 

The game is still very much alpha with few gameplay loops and various bugs but it has come along steadily since I started in 2016. Currently most have have more fun when playing with friends. I play both in groups and solo and have well over a hundred hours in-game (probably closer to 500). If you want complete game play and can not handle bugs I would say it is probably too early for you currently. If those things don't bother you there is a lot of fun to be had. I suggest checking out Twitch streams such as TheFew, phantom0killer, Moist_Noodle or DrDronez if you want to see what gameplay looks like first hand. 

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2 hours ago, george357 said:

The game is still very much alpha

 

2 hours ago, george357 said:

$65 USD

65$ to play an alpha build?

What did PT Barnum say again?


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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8 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

 

65$ to play an alpha build?

What did PT Barnum say again?

Typical naysayer nitpicking? I plainly wrote it is $45 to play the Alpha but that will also give you full access after release when the entry price will be $60+ just for Star Citizen. The $65 you attempt to misrepresent is the cost of TWO games, Star Citizen and Squadron 42. 

 

Instead of Barnum you might want to check Lorii Myers, “Don’t build roadblocks out of assumptions.” 

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4 hours ago, george357 said:

Typical naysayer nitpicking?

Not naysaying the game, I could not care less about it, not into star sims, I"m pointing out that's a lot of dosh (and it goes way up from there) for a game that's in alpha. You're paying for the privilege of finding bugs....they should be paying you, not the other way around.


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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17 hours ago, george357 said:

The game is still very much alpha with few gameplay loops and various bugs

LOL, a few?? Lets not kid ourselves. The game is MASSIVELY alpha, eats resources like a fat kid at the buffet, and has bugs littered through the verse, etc.

 

 

5 hours ago, george357 said:

The $65 you attempt to misrepresent is the cost of TWO games, Star Citizen and Squadron 42. 

Which was originally marketed as one game but is now two separate purchases.....  But im a bit salty on this one and personally think S42 is a waste of money/time. Would much rather them work on getting SC to a launchable state. Fucking make one game that works, then move on to the other. Building two brand new games with such a small team seems like a setup for massive headaches/let downs.

 

Please don't get me wrong, SC has great potential, but taking the name and CR out of the picture:

Would you spend $40+ on a alpha game that raised $250M+ crowdfunding in 2012, was supposed to launch in 2014 but has been pushed WAYYYY back(2020 MAYBE) because they are constantly changing their minds/features, and has some of the worst marketing/PR i've ever seen by selling $27,000 ship packages??? I wouldn't.

 

If this was say EA, Bethesda, Valve, or anyone else the community would have DEVOURED them into oblivion.

 

 

WITH THAT BEING SAID..... if they do ever reach their goal and follow the roadmap as laid out. It will be an amazing fucking game. Right now though, I think Scott Manley put it best by saying "Looks great - Shame about the Bugs"

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5 hours ago, data55 said:

LOL, a few?? Lets not kid ourselves. The game is MASSIVELY alpha, eats resources like a fat kid at the buffet, and has bugs littered through the verse, etc.

 

 

Which was originally marketed as one game but is now two separate purchases.....  But im a bit salty on this one and personally think S42 is a waste of money/time. Would much rather them work on getting SC to a launchable state. Fucking make one game that works, then move on to the other. Building two brand new games with such a small team seems like a setup for massive headaches/let downs.

 

Please don't get me wrong, SC has great potential, but taking the name and CR out of the picture:

Would you spend $40+ on a alpha game that raised $250M+ crowdfunding in 2012, was supposed to launch in 2014 but has been pushed WAYYYY back(2020 MAYBE) because they are constantly changing their minds/features, and has some of the worst marketing/PR i've ever seen by selling $27,000 ship packages??? I wouldn't.

 

If this was say EA, Bethesda, Valve, or anyone else the community would have DEVOURED them into oblivion.

 

 

WITH THAT BEING SAID..... if they do ever reach their goal and follow the roadmap as laid out. It will be an amazing fucking game. Right now though, I think Scott Manley put it best by saying "Looks great - Shame about the Bugs"

It does not eat resources that bad currently, the implementation of Object Container Streaming client side has really helped. I average 52FPS on a 3440x1440 with an 1800x and Vega 64 at ultra high settings. When I said few I meant few. Unless you have an absolute potato PC there is no reason the game should be unplayable if you don't mind bugs. Gameplay currently consists of cargo running and various missions covering everything from packages delivery to bounty hunting. Yes there are bugs as stated but that's to be expected. I have played over 4 hours (several hundred since 2016) today with just one server side issue.

 

As far as two games issue it was originally started as Squadron 42/Single player and that would have been out if 2014 or so if the community had not voted to build the MMO of Star Citizen. These changes were asked for and more money was pledged to get these stretch goals in game. They are not constantly changing their minds they have to change thing to make the game work the way it is supposed to work. These early changes and the other things that had to be done are the reason we don't have a release yet, and that is a good thing. Why have one good game when you can have two great games?

 

The $250 million was not earned in 2012, it was never earned. The funding currently stands at a little over $218 million and that was reached this past week. The whole $27,000 package thing was not a money grab as people would like to believe, that package was asked for by those that have already backed the game to that level and wanted a way to consolidate their fleets. Again, there is no money required aside form the initial pledge price of $45/$65 depending on whether one wants one or both games.

 

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8 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

Not naysaying the game, I could not care less about it, not into star sims, I"m pointing out that's a lot of dosh (and it goes way up from there) for a game that's in alpha. You're paying for the privilege of finding bugs....they should be paying you, not the other way around.

You are not paying for the privilege of finding bugs, you are pledging support for a game in alpha that you will get access to immediately if you want or when it releases if you don't like bugs.

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8 minutes ago, george357 said:

The whole $27,000 package thing was not a money grab as people would like to believe, that package was asked for by those that have already backed the game to that level and wanted a way to consolidate their fleets.

And yet regular publishers get flak for $5 skins................... Funny how that works.

 

5 minutes ago, george357 said:

Why have one good game when you can have two great games?

 

Because they currently have neither and have missed every release date they have set thus far..

If this wasn't CR and his crew and instead EA or someone else, the community would burn them at the stake.

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1 hour ago, george357 said:

It does not eat resources that bad currently

That's called "damning with faint praise"

1 hour ago, george357 said:

if you don't mind bugs.

Yup, damning with faint praise

and a 27k DLC only available to those who *already* pledged 1k to the game? That's lunacy....utter lunacy, I don't give a damn what the logic/reasoning behind it is, that's a new car pricetag

1 hour ago, george357 said:

The funding currently stands at a little over $218 million

Oh, silly me, that makes it okay then :)

Carry on.


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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13 hours ago, data55 said:

And yet regular publishers get flak for $5 skins................... Funny how that works.

 

 

Because they currently have neither and have missed every release date they have set thus far..

If this wasn't CR and his crew and instead EA or someone else, the community would burn them at the stake.

Because regular publishers continually release crap, reworked content that is so broken it can only be made better with such skins/DLCs. There is no comparison here since CIG is both developer and publisher and have yet to release the game. You are trying to compare released games and supposedly finished products to a game in alpha still being developed and supported by pledges. It is a disconnect that does not work.

 

The missed dates are explained fully by the changes made because of what the people paying for the game development wanted. You can not fault a company for changing things when their funding source wants those changes. Especially when those changes require ground up innovation and adaptation.

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11 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

That's called "damning with faint praise"

Yup, damning with faint praise

and a 27k DLC only available to those who *already* pledged 1k to the game? That's lunacy....utter lunacy, I don't give a damn what the logic/reasoning behind it is, that's a new car pricetag

Oh, silly me, that makes it okay then :)

Carry on.

This is not faint praise it is an accurate representation of the current state of the game. 

 

Your opinions on what other people want to spend their money on is of no consequence. As far as the reasoning, it would take a completely moronic company to not give their backers what they want when those backers determine your funding on their whim. 

 

As far as the amounts funded it just goes to show you have little, if any idea what is going on with the game but continue to spout opinion and rhetoric in response to my facts. A unique situation for someone professing "Not naysaying the game, I could not care less about it, not into star sims".

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2 hours ago, george357 said:

This is not faint praise it is an accurate representation of the current state of the game. 

 

Your opinions on what other people want to spend their money on is of no consequence. As far as the reasoning, it would take a completely moronic company to not give their backers what they want when those backers determine your funding on their whim. 

 

As far as the amounts funded it just goes to show you have little, if any idea what is going on with the game but continue to spout opinion and rhetoric in response to my facts. A unique situation for someone professing "Not naysaying the game, I could not care less about it, not into star sims".

Heh, fair enough, I just find it amusing you can buy some pixels for 27k.

I did a bit a researching on what 27k would get me, instead of the pixel ships and the results were enlightening.

 

For example, I could buy a used Ferrari for less than that. In fact, I did some years a go, for 15k I bought a 308GT4, which would have left me enough money for an engine rebuild (about 9k) and enough left over for a nice re-spray...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I called up the local brothel and asked what it would cost for an "anything goes" evening. It was 1K. So for half a year, once a week, I could get anything goes from the best in the business....or I could buy some pixel ships. 

I could get the interior or my house redone, new flooring, new windows, deck with jacuzzi AND inground swimming pool for 27K...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I could take a round the world cruise to some of the most exotic destinations and take pics (I'm a photographer) that will last a lifetime, and perhaps even sell them...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I could rent a house on the beach for the week in the peak of summer, hire some models for a photoshoot, treat everyone for food, buy outfits for the entire week, or I could buy some pixel ships.

 

I can see where the dilemma is coming from!

Cheers mate!


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 2/18/2019 at 8:37 PM, Radium_Angel said:

Heh, fair enough, I just find it amusing you can buy some pixels for 27k.

I did a bit a researching on what 27k would get me, instead of the pixel ships and the results were enlightening.

 

For example, I could buy a used Ferrari for less than that. In fact, I did some years a go, for 15k I bought a 308GT4, which would have left me enough money for an engine rebuild (about 9k) and enough left over for a nice re-spray...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I called up the local brothel and asked what it would cost for an "anything goes" evening. It was 1K. So for half a year, once a week, I could get anything goes from the best in the business....or I could buy some pixel ships. 

I could get the interior or my house redone, new flooring, new windows, deck with jacuzzi AND inground swimming pool for 27K...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I could take a round the world cruise to some of the most exotic destinations and take pics (I'm a photographer) that will last a lifetime, and perhaps even sell them...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I could rent a house on the beach for the week in the peak of summer, hire some models for a photoshoot, treat everyone for food, buy outfits for the entire week, or I could buy some pixel ships.

 

I can see where the dilemma is coming from!

Cheers mate!

seems ridiculous price for an engine rebuild.. Is that only because the parts are expensive? Like sure you need special tools.. but a 400% premium seems redick.

 

On a related note, i'm going to attempt to rebuild my pathfinder's engine that died when it gets warmer.. Wish me luck

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1 minute ago, Rosss said:

seems ridiculous price for an engine rebuild..

Sadly, no. The valves on my Maserati BiTurbo were 100 each. There are (well, were, I don't have the car any more) 18 of them. That's near 2 grand just for new valves. Nevermind the rest of the parts. 9k for an engine rebuild for the 308GT4 was a bargain.


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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Posted · Original PosterOP
21 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Sadly, no. The valves on my Maserati BiTurbo were 100 each. There are (well, were, I don't have the car any more) 18 of them. That's near 2 grand just for new valves. Nevermind the rest of the parts. 9k for an engine rebuild for the 308GT4 was a bargain.

yah so must mainly be the parts. I was just comparing it to the run of the mill engine rebuild.. Do they just source it to a machine shop?

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25 minutes ago, Rosss said:

yah so must mainly be the parts. I was just comparing it to the run of the mill engine rebuild.. Do they just source it to a machine shop?

Ha no. My mechanics only do Italian cars, and charge 95/hr for labour. Yeah parts are a bear, but their knowledge is priceless.

I saw what happened to a guy's Lotus Esprit who took it to a local generic corner gas station mechanic for an engine rebuild...

way to turn a 40k car into useless scrap. It wasn't pretty.


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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I enjoy playing SC with friends, yes it's not a complete game but it feels like a proper playground to mess around in with new stuff thrown in regularly. It's also so much more stable than it was even 12 months ago.

 

I've had value for money out of it and then some over the past few years.

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On 2/19/2019 at 2:37 AM, Radium_Angel said:

Heh, fair enough, I just find it amusing you can buy some pixels for 27k.

I did a bit a researching on what 27k would get me, instead of the pixel ships and the results were enlightening.

 

For example, I could buy a used Ferrari for less than that. In fact, I did some years a go, for 15k I bought a 308GT4, which would have left me enough money for an engine rebuild (about 9k) and enough left over for a nice re-spray...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I called up the local brothel and asked what it would cost for an "anything goes" evening. It was 1K. So for half a year, once a week, I could get anything goes from the best in the business....or I could buy some pixel ships. 

I could get the interior or my house redone, new flooring, new windows, deck with jacuzzi AND inground swimming pool for 27K...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I could take a round the world cruise to some of the most exotic destinations and take pics (I'm a photographer) that will last a lifetime, and perhaps even sell them...or I could buy some pixel ships.

I could rent a house on the beach for the week in the peak of summer, hire some models for a photoshoot, treat everyone for food, buy outfits for the entire week, or I could buy some pixel ships.

 

I can see where the dilemma is coming from!

Cheers mate!

People have hobbies, some spend it on "pixels". Others on comics, toys, paintings, sculptures, cars, houses, plants, cats, dogs, electronics.

 

Your stupid list doesn't make any sense. Yes you could do any of that, or you can buy anything else.... its your money, no one is forcing you to spend it on any one thing. Who buys a pile of useless rust for 15k? you can do any of those others things in your list for it... yeah i can see where the dilemma is coming from! Cheers Mate!

 

so how that works? You call a bunch of ships from the game of someone's dreams "just pixels", i call your Ferrari a useless pile of rust.... Different priorities and wants for different people. Stop complaining about a company giving people options and just do what you want with your money and let others decide what they do with their money. Trust me, your life will truly change for the better when you do this.


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CiG could always release the half-finished crap they already have. I personally would love the game to succeed but I think it will fail hard.

 

I mean look on the result and compare it to the time and money spend.

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No it's not a scam, the active community wanted it extended and this is the result, yes its frustrating having to wait but I played Kingdom Come and TBH the 4yrs wasn't long enough, I'm happy to wait for a game if its well done. 

 

$65 for 2 games does seem expensive but they changed this in 2015 iirc, I originally paid £27 for the complete package at the time the dog fighting module came out. 

 

Paying bug testers? Not really, that's the evocati, of which some have ended up working for CIG. 

 

Cult? Aren't you part of the PCMR? 

 

Sunk cost/time falicy? Not really, I increased my pledge after I felt I hadn't paid the devs enough for the time spent in arena commander, the reason I've spent that much time? The people on here are awesome, we've branched out in other games and fingers crossed I'm off to different parts of the world at some point to meet a few of them. Best $100 spent for that reason alone. 

 

But this is what I usually expect from people that haven't done the research and only read the title of every article of SC, that and a dude that is trying to justify a purchase of a Ferrari and a night at a brothel. It's why the SC LTT community moved away from the forums. 

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