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fasauceome

Is X399 ITX impossible?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I always love to scan for SFF stuff (as you can probably tell by my sig) and of course there's yet to be an announced product for ITX Threadripper. Now I know cooling the eventual 64 core behemoth (that is due from Zen 2 or maybe Zen 2+) which we can all feel is coming is an immense challenge for the ITX fom factor, but that aside, is the package size of TR not just difficult, but prohibitive for that size? The socket being huge is one thing, but X299 has got around this with sodimms and clever board layouts, but is it flat out impossible on the AMD side? The 16 core options coming for AM4 are neat, I just crave more.


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Kill Trident Z RGB - Force MP500 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - The venerated Hyper 212 Evo (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G2 650W - Black and green theme, Razer branwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - MSI GTX 650 - some 7200RPM SATA II thing - Ubuntu (at the moment)

 

Feel free to critique my website. I am but a young entrepreneur.

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Didn't Asrock make X299 ITX work with DIMM as well? They cut away Kaby-Lake-X support... which is sad imo because that setup could well be a very good LN2 OC competitor. Oh well.


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (1696MHz 0.812V ~ 1860MHz 0.95V) RAM: 12GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Results: Cinebench R15 Single thread:159 Multi-thread: 770 (thx Meltdown Spectre patch) Super Pi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.11s 1M: 8.4s 32M: 7m 45.9s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

They cut away Kaby-Lake-X support... which is sad imo because that setup could well be a very good LN2 OC competitor. Oh well.

Why not just disable cores, and have the same package size and thermal output?


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Kill Trident Z RGB - Force MP500 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - The venerated Hyper 212 Evo (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G2 650W - Black and green theme, Razer branwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - MSI GTX 650 - some 7200RPM SATA II thing - Ubuntu (at the moment)

 

Feel free to critique my website. I am but a young entrepreneur.

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The Threadripper socket alone is more than a quarter of a Mini-ITX motherboard (78x105mm vs 170x170mm). I don't think it's happening.

 

Edit:

Bigger even, that's just the dimensions center to center on the cooler mounting holes, not even the socket clearance. Or 250+ watts worth of VRM.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Desktop:

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Dell XPS 15 9560 4K Touch | Intel Core i5-7300HQ | 12GB Generic (Crucial?) 2133MHz DDR4 | Nvidia GTX 1050 | 256GB Toshiba M.2 NVMe SSD | Windows 10

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Im not sure if they could physically fit everything else on the board with that giant socket. Even the Matx x399 board asrock made was tight and only had two dimm slots.

I could see it as dtx though. An extra pcie slots worth of room for the chipset, probably still gonna be running sodimms though. I could see sodimm slots and nvme on the back of the board making it  possible.

 

The real question is, who's going to make it and who is the market. There's been a trend in the last 5-6 years now where part manufacturers have been doing less and less experimental stuff because it's just not economical. I doubt there's much of any market for it outside of the rare few sff pc enthusiasts who would actually want mini itx or dtx threadripper anyway.

Cooling it would require larger sff cases that support full sized coolers, you're not gonna see TR in a dancase or silverstones milo series, but rather in things like the fractal design Nano s or raijintek metis that can hold either large air coolers or water cooling loops.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, BobVonBob said:

The Threadripper socket alone is more than a quarter of a Mini-ITX motherboard

Damn, didn't think about that before, this picture does put that into perspective

asus rog zenith extreme

Where the distance between mounting holes gives a super clear perspective.

6 minutes ago, campy said:

who's going to make it

Probably asrock, they make fun weird stuff

 

6 minutes ago, campy said:

who is the market.

Me hopefully, and the clients I brainwash into the ITX master race.


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Kill Trident Z RGB - Force MP500 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - The venerated Hyper 212 Evo (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G2 650W - Black and green theme, Razer branwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - MSI GTX 650 - some 7200RPM SATA II thing - Ubuntu (at the moment)

 

Feel free to critique my website. I am but a young entrepreneur.

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13 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Why not just disable cores, and have the same package size and thermal output?

because Skylake-X has weaker memory controller even when both are running dual channel. It could have been better if KabyLake-X keeps the ring bus architecture rather than the mesh architecture


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (1696MHz 0.812V ~ 1860MHz 0.95V) RAM: 12GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Results: Cinebench R15 Single thread:159 Multi-thread: 770 (thx Meltdown Spectre patch) Super Pi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.11s 1M: 8.4s 32M: 7m 45.9s

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3 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Probably asrock, they make fun weird stuff

and then only sell them in Asia where land supply is tight... only.


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (1696MHz 0.812V ~ 1860MHz 0.95V) RAM: 12GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Results: Cinebench R15 Single thread:159 Multi-thread: 770 (thx Meltdown Spectre patch) Super Pi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.11s 1M: 8.4s 32M: 7m 45.9s

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I doubt it'll happen since it isn't practical to have a board that small.

Thermals would be quite bad in an ITX case, as well as DIMM slots and PCI/PCIe slots being scarce (due to the lack of space).

There's a reason why there are no ITX X399 boards.

 


Some may know me as 1kv. I'm not liable for anything that may happen as a result of following my advice. Take what I say with a grain of salt, some things may not be correct.

Make sure to tag or quote who you are trying to reply to, that way they will see your answer.

Useful links: Community Standards | New PSU Tier List | Posting Guidelines | Why you shouldn't buy an EVGA G3 PSU | Build Guide Megathread | GPU Tier List

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

but is it flat out impossible on the AMD side?

Yes, the Socket is just too huge.

Just take a random X399 Board at random and look at the Size of the Socket:

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/PRIME-X399-A/

 

The Socket is almost as long as a DIMM Socket.

 

Now look at a random ITX Board, chosen at random:

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450I-GAMING-PLUS-AC

 

That Socket would take like 75% of the Area of the Board. So you have to do some sandwitch things and other stuff.

 

In short: 
The Socket is just too large for ITX.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, 1kv said:

as well as DIMM slots and PCI/PCIe slots being scarce (due to the lack of space)

I wondered about that because the same issue presents itself on X99/X299, so the tradeoff seems reasonable. Otherwise yeah it's largely impractical, but ITX tends to be that way,


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Kill Trident Z RGB - Force MP500 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - The venerated Hyper 212 Evo (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G2 650W - Black and green theme, Razer branwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - MSI GTX 650 - some 7200RPM SATA II thing - Ubuntu (at the moment)

 

Feel free to critique my website. I am but a young entrepreneur.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

So you have to do some sandwitch things and other stuff.

I really would love a crazy 2 sided beard design, maybe ram and M.2 and some VRM on the bottom, something crazy to leave just enough space for PCIe X16 and the socket. 


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Kill Trident Z RGB - Force MP500 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - The venerated Hyper 212 Evo (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G2 650W - Black and green theme, Razer branwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - MSI GTX 650 - some 7200RPM SATA II thing - Ubuntu (at the moment)

 

Feel free to critique my website. I am but a young entrepreneur.

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3 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I wondered about that because the same issue presents itself on X99/X299, so the tradeoff seems reasonable. Otherwise yeah it's largely impractical, but ITX tends to be that way,

Yeah, practicality is one of the main reasons (apart from the size of the TR4 socket) why I don't think X399 will have ITX boards.

Not to mention production costs would be sky high. X399 boards are already expensive, imagine how much it'd cost to stuff all that into an ITX form factor.


Some may know me as 1kv. I'm not liable for anything that may happen as a result of following my advice. Take what I say with a grain of salt, some things may not be correct.

Make sure to tag or quote who you are trying to reply to, that way they will see your answer.

Useful links: Community Standards | New PSU Tier List | Posting Guidelines | Why you shouldn't buy an EVGA G3 PSU | Build Guide Megathread | GPU Tier List

 

 

 

 

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The TR4 CPU is about as big as the Backplate for AM2-AM3/FM1/2:

Here an ITX Board.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1292417-REG/msi_a68hi_ac_fm2_fm2_mini_itx.html

 

But with all those traces and so on you might have to do something like a 12 Layer Board.

That would be really expensive...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

That would be really expensive...

and fun

Trust me, I didn't expect X399 ITX to come cheap (actually figured it might set some kind of record for motherboard pricing). I was rather hoping I could convince someone to buy a build that uses one.


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Kill Trident Z RGB - Force MP500 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - The venerated Hyper 212 Evo (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G2 650W - Black and green theme, Razer branwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - MSI GTX 650 - some 7200RPM SATA II thing - Ubuntu (at the moment)

 

Feel free to critique my website. I am but a young entrepreneur.

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