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firelighter487

(UPDATED - Claim has been removed) The Linux Gamer's response video to LTT got claimed by Fullscreen

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

You seem to be misinformed. There's a HUGE difference between a copyright claim and a takedown notice resulting in a copyright strike.

Copyright claims, which is what has happened here to The Linux Gamer are often an automatic process where Content ID detects that a portion of your copyrighted content has appeared in another video on Youtube, and will issue a copyright claim on the video. The video remains public and viewable by the viewers, however any ad revenue generated by the video may be redirected to the original copyright holder. There's no punishment for the channel when a copyright claim is made against them, they will just lose the revenue for the video.

Copyright strikes or takedown notices, which is what The Verge did, are when they manually issue a legal notice that a video is infringing on their copyright and that they demand the video be removed from the platform. The channel will then receive a copyright strike against their channel which comes with punishments for the channel, such as losing their ability to live stream or perhaps no longer being 'recommended' or promoted in the search results or feed which can severely hurt the channels traffic and views. If they are issued with multiple copyright strikes, their channel can be removed completely.

 

(snip) 

This is an excellent explanation of how these things work. 

 

I'd like to add that as long as the creator who gets the automated claim disputes it in a timely manner, there is no lost revenue during the period while it was "claimed". 

 

I've been down at IBM Think for the last couple of days and this thread is the first I'm hearing of this issue.. Aaaand it's already resolved. 

 

So, as far as I can tell, everything is working as it should...ish

 

We have noticed a significant uptick in copyright claims in the last couple of weeks, though, with some of them being in really really old content which suggests youtube has made some kind of change to ContentID and we've been trying to figure out how to address it.

 

We are generally pretty supportive of the creation of derivative works by our community and we want to make sure that they aren't being algorithmically claimed, but this change has caused other issues for us too. I woke up the other morning to a handful of claims made against Tech Quickie by LTT... Can't have that. 

 

I'm sure this will be resolved, but it's probably going to take some time for youtube to get their crap in order, as usual. 

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12 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

explain?

 


 

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On 2/15/2019 at 10:29 AM, rcmaehl said:

It is a Multi Channel Network or MCN. Here's a brief summary of what they do by The Game Theorists. They used to do a TON more and were REQUIRED if you wanted to make money. Now-a-days they're not and can be up to shady stuff.
 

 

I am shocked by this video. I don't have words to describe how angry it made me feel. This wasn't simply a misunderstanding, it is just criminal.

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On 2/15/2019 at 12:02 PM, LinusTech said:

We have noticed a significant uptick in copyright claims in the last couple of weeks, though, with some of them being in really really old content which suggests youtube has made some kind of change to ContentID and we've been trying to figure out how to address it.

Here is an idea: Does YouTube allow you to OPT OUT of Content ID? If not, can you choose to "do nothing and just notify you" by DEFAULT when Content ID detects something?

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36 minutes ago, forgotusername said:

Here is an idea: Does YouTube allow you to OPT OUT of Content ID? If not, can you choose to "do nothing and just notify you" by DEFAULT when Content ID detects something?

Why would a content creator do this?  They need to protect their IP and branding.  

 


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41 minutes ago, forgotusername said:

Here is an idea: Does YouTube allow you to OPT OUT of Content ID? If not, can you choose to "do nothing and just notify you" by DEFAULT when Content ID detects something?

 

4 minutes ago, KWelz said:

Why would a content creator do this?  They need to protect their IP and branding.  

 

Not having Monetisacion on at all would be the only way to do that.

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6 minutes ago, KWelz said:

Why would a content creator do this?  They need to protect their IP and branding.  

 

Opting out completely would probably be a bad idea, but not having automatic claims on automatically flagged content could work just fine. It all boils down to (a) how sensitive is the algorithm (that is, how many false positives it generates, and how many true positives slip by), (b) how manageable it is for copyright owners to manually review flagged videos, and (c) how manageable is to flagged youtubers to appeal the claim.

If the algorithm errs on the side of false negatives, and it's easy for false positives to contest the claims, it may be best to leave it all in auto. On the other hand, if the algorithm is overzealous and it's hard for false positives to contest the claims, full automation could quickly become a channel killer (not in the 3 strikes sense, but in the starve sense :P). At the same time, whether manual review is feasible depends on the difficulty for copyright holders to review flags manually (time needed per video times how many videos are flagged).

You may think that the copyright holder wouldn't internalize the cost of abundant false positives, however hard they may be on the victims, but it could also be damaging to their brand if, let say, contentID starts flagging anything with a computer in it as LMG's (or anyone else's for that matter).

 

Judging by the information provided by Linus, The Linux Gamer, and others, the current situation in terms of those 3 axes seems to be: (a) the algorithm has become more prone to false positives, (b) contesting claims is rather easy and quick although it may also be hard and slow depending on who you ask (?), (c) uncertain, but the (suspected) changes in the algorithm may increase the burden of manually reviewing flagged videos. I don't know enough to tell what's the current false positive rate, nor whether a relatively big channel gets 2 flags a month or 200 a day.

 

Finally, whatever you do with flagged videos you still need, or may want, to address copyright violations not captured by the algorithm. 

Ideally, you don't want to waste man hours checking pure re-uploads, nor auto-claim videos with high probability of falling into fair use, but again that would require the bot to accurately make those distinctions for you.

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On 2/15/2019 at 12:02 PM, LinusTech said:

This is an excellent explanation of how these things work. 

 

I'd like to add that as long as the creator who gets the automated claim disputes it in a timely manner, there is no lost revenue during the period while it was "claimed". 

 

I've been down at IBM Think for the last couple of days and this thread is the first I'm hearing of this issue.. Aaaand it's already resolved. 

 

So, as far as I can tell, everything is working as it should...ish

 

We have noticed a significant uptick in copyright claims in the last couple of weeks, though, with some of them being in really really old content which suggests youtube has made some kind of change to ContentID and we've been trying to figure out how to address it.

 

We are generally pretty supportive of the creation of derivative works by our community and we want to make sure that they aren't being algorithmically claimed, but this change has caused other issues for us too. I woke up the other morning to a handful of claims made against Tech Quickie by LTT... Can't have that. 

 

I'm sure this will be resolved, but it's probably going to take some time for youtube to get their crap in order, as usual. 

I have to commend Linus for how he handles these things, and I agree with what was said in the video.

 

I also have to add a personal admission/apology to Linus for my own past behavior on the forum. I very harshly criticized LTT for running this video a year and a half ago, a criticism to which Linus responded directly in a very similar drama-response-webcam-address. And while I stand by my negative opinion of the video itself, and from a channel quality standpoint I wish LTT never uploaded it, I jumped to conclusions and roasted Linus with totally conjectory statements - even while respecting Linus enormously for how far he went as a person since I started watching, for how far he's taken LTT with the talent he's brought on along the way, and for the many instances he demonstrated personal integrity that I admire. I was too willing to see LTT as a big machine that had essentially taken on a mind of its own and was no longer a direct extension of Linus's ideal content creation platform. I had no basis for reaching that conclusion except that LTT had grown and its content had changed accordingly. I should have either communicated with Linus directly or have shut up.

 

I was wrong to have said what I said, and I regretted it as soon as Linus read my comment in his video response. As time has gone on I've become more and more careful to moderate my initial reaction to new information before running off with my own (or others') flawed assumptions, to give the benefit of the doubt, and to talk to people directly before making judgments in drama-laden situations like this. It makes life better and easier for everyone.

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this is not drama.  This is just YouTube  administration (unless someones Chanel got nuked i do not care)  Love you @LinusTech but pleas don't beat a dead horse its not befitting, that I felt was  unnecessary and more drama to me and pitch forks of the internet than some random claims.

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Personally, I'm not a fan of reaction videos. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find them to be very entertaining at all, and only sometimes can be marginally informative. In fact, more often than not, I've found them to be more indicative of the creator's lack of inspiration or originality when it comes to content creation in general.

 

To me, they are just a cheap method for somebody to put "something" on their channel, just to have something "new" on it, because they can't think of anything else to do at the moment, or aren't close to completing better content (reaction content is one of the easiest things to do.)

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1 hour ago, ross06187 said:

this is not drama.  This is just YouTube  administration (unless someones Chanel got nuked i do not care)  Love you @LinusTech but pleas don't beat a dead horse its not befitting, that I felt was  unnecessary and more drama to me and pitch forks of the internet than some random claims.

I think in this case, there's a lot of people conflating automated Content ID matches with manual claims or DMCA takedowns, particularly when using language like "slander". While it's not worth arguing with the folks carrying the pitchforks, it is worth preventing more pitchforks from popping up by making the truth known.

 

Now, is Linus right to start pointing at things like EU law? Maybe, maybe not. It's a theory, one that seems to coincide with the increase in false ID matches. But is it YouTube or is it Fullscreen? Something must have tweaked to make it more sensitive, but YouTube doesn't really tell anyone anything when they tweak things like that, and as Linus mentioned on WAN show, our relationship with Fullscreen is... Very hands-off. It seems some calls will need to be made.

 

With all that said, I don't think the answer to this drama is to start pointing fingers at each other and screaming from the rooftops that so and so is being unfair, be that creators who have been affected or us getting the heat for it. It should be clear at this point that it wasn't an intentional change on our part, nor were the reports that claims were being made fake or malicious. To be clear, things could have been handled far better and I think everyone has a right to be upset about it, but I think the way to move forward is to accept that and get to the bottom of what happened and how to prevent it from continuing.

 

EDIT: Well, I think there's one that's becoming malicious, but that could just be drama milking. Don't hate the player, etc etc.


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14 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

I think in this case, there's a lot of people conflating automated Content ID matches with manual claims or DMCA takedowns, particularly when using language like "slander". While it's not worth arguing with the folks carrying the pitchforks, it is worth preventing more pitchforks from popping up by making the truth known.

 

Now, is Linus right to start pointing at things like EU law? Maybe, maybe not. It's a theory, one that seems to coincide with the increase in false ID matches. But is it YouTube or is it Fullscreen? Something must have tweaked to make it more sensitive, but YouTube doesn't really tell anyone anything when they tweak things like that, and as Linus mentioned on WAN show, our relationship with Fullscreen is... Very hands-off. It seems some calls will need to be made.

 

With all that said, I don't think the answer to this drama is to start pointing fingers at each other and screaming from the rooftops that so and so is being unfair, be that creators who have been affected or us getting the heat for it. It should be clear at this point that it wasn't an intentional change on our part, nor were the reports that claims were being made fake or malicious. To be clear, things could have been handled far better and I think everyone has a right to be upset about it, but I think the way to move forward is to accept that and get to the bottom of what happened and how to prevent it from continuing.

Makes sense.

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Just looked at Carey's live stream and the chats are still going on about it, and many defending still that Linus should apologize. Is soooooo drama.. Yes misinformation is big in this drama.

On second comment, what is up-tube dot com, is it a copy of youtube? because it runs all the LTT videos.

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Tbh tho, how would they fix this?  If they got rid of the content ID system, they would be opening themselves up to all kinds of lawsuits and crap, and it would be near impossible to make an AI that can discern between a violation and fair use.

 

The only way I could think of is to employ an enormous team of manual checkers, like Facebook's, as described in this episode of Radiolab.  Even this, in my opinion, wouldn't work very well.  Facebook's system is for checking if a post breaks their ToS (ie. nudes, graphic violence), which is a fairly simple, fast decision for somebody to make.  Copyright on YT, on the other hand, would require the checker to watch a lot of the video, critical thinking for edge cases, and would need the checkers to be well educated on what's a violation and what's not.

 

I highly recommend that you listen to the Radiolab episode, it is really interesting and informative: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/post-no-evil


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5 hours ago, GabenJr said:

I think in this case, there's a lot of people conflating automated Content ID matches with manual claims or DMCA takedowns, particularly when using language like "slander". While it's not worth arguing with the folks carrying the pitchforks, it is worth preventing more pitchforks from popping up by making the truth known.

I blame the timing of all this, as in a blame Vox and The Verge. This would have been a non event a week or so ago, people are jumping to this assumption due to the recent case in which a copyright strike was issued to take down videos. I honestly believe that is the only reason people are pitchforking right now, because they don't understand the Youtube copyright systems and they have a recent event to draw from and assuming it's the same situation.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 hours ago, leadeater said:

This would have been a non event a week or so ago, people are jumping to this assumption due to the recent case in which a copyright strike was issued to take down videos. 

i honestly did not know about that. i only posted this topic because i thought the claim thing with The Linux Gamer was unfair and it needed to be resolved...


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1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

i honestly did not know about that. i only posted this topic because i thought the claim thing with The Linux Gamer was unfair and it needed to be resolved...

I was mostly referring to the waves of people pitchforking online, in youtube comments, twitter, youtube response videos etc.

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7 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

while i go watch this, have you considered the other side of the story?

What I posted is the other side is the story. 


 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, leadeater said:

I was mostly referring to the waves of people pitchforking online, in youtube comments, twitter, youtube response videos etc.

oh that makes sense. whenever something happens people automatically grab pitchforks before reading past the headline...


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11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

while i go watch this, have you considered the other side of the story?

The other side of the Story is:
Someone you don't like sits in the Audience and does nothing (maybe "agressively" smiles/laughs/smirks), you attack him verbally for his existance/beeing there.

He hasn't done a video about you in years (well, more or less, at least on the main channel).

 

The "other Side" of the Story is a Video about our all favorite, not very Slim man:
Boogie2988, who is know as a person, who tends to be a very mildly mannered and agreeable person, who was on a panel with you. And he dares to claim that Men can be victims too and that that Harassment is not necessarily a female problem. And you shout and screem at him for daring to disagreeing with you and telling people that "white cis males" can be victims too.

 

Just input "Boogie2988 Anita" and you find a couple of Videos about the "other Side".

 

At this point:

pls avoid Politics, don't go too much into it. Its just awful, depressing, bad.

Everything you don't want to.

And there isn't too much hope for whatever reason...

 

12 hours ago, leadeater said:

I blame the timing of all this, as in a blame Vox and The Verge. This would have been a non event a week or so ago, people are jumping to this assumption due to the recent case in which a copyright strike was issued to take down videos. I honestly believe that is the only reason people are pitchforking right now, because they don't understand the Youtube copyright systems and they have a recent event to draw from and assuming it's the same situation.

Yeah, that's one part of it.

But the EU stuff might also cause people to panic.

And there was also the extotion Copyright shit going on on Youtube as well.

 

While I agree that Verge plays a big part, it wasn't just them...


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45 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

The other side of the Story is:
Someone you don't like sits in the Audience and does nothing (maybe "agressively" smiles/laughs/smirks), you attack him verbally for his existance/beeing there.

He hasn't done a video about you in years (well, more or less, at least on the main channel).

 

The "other Side" of the Story is a Video about our all favorite, not very Slim man:
Boogie2988, who is know as a person, who tends to be a very mildly mannered and agreeable person, who was on a panel with you. And he dares to claim that Men can be victims too and that that Harassment is not necessarily a female problem. And you shout and screem at him for daring to disagreeing with you and telling people that "white cis males" can be victims too.

 

Just input "Boogie2988 Anita" and you find a couple of Videos about the "other Side".

 

At this point:

pls avoid Politics, don't go too much into it. Its just awful, depressing, bad.

Everything you don't want to.

And there isn't too much hope for whatever reason...

strange, what does that have to do with Hank Green?

 

On 2/18/2019 at 10:44 AM, DasGanon said:

 

On 2/18/2019 at 10:55 AM, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

really find it hard when he himself was a part of censorship at his own event, feels hypocritical.  

 

 

I know he founded vidcon. I know he handed over leadership to its self-autonomous entity that's Vidcon.

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On 2/15/2019 at 2:29 PM, rcmaehl said:

It is a Multi Channel Network or MCN. Here's a brief summary of what they do by The Game Theorists. They used to do a TON more and were REQUIRED if you wanted to make money. Now-a-days they're not and can be up to shady stuff.
 

 

something similar happened to Jon Paula and his IDEO Productions (Now Jogwheel) , creator of "Is it a good idea to microwave this?" ... he was under MCN and they started to demonetize his videos, pull them down, etc...  and I'm sure, Fullscreen will soon or later do shit like that to LTT and others in their hands.... it's just matter of time... 

 

We, who learn from mistakes of others, got one priceless lesson. NEVER GET YOUR CHANNEL UNDER MCN ... 


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21 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

I know he founded vidcon. I know he handed over leadership to its self-autonomous entity that's Vidcon.

that was before he handed it over, she attacked an audience, if anyone she broke the rules, yet she gets to stay and he gets kicked out and they tried to make it like anita was in the right, hypocrite as fuck. there are more videos about this, just google them. it's not just him she abused, she also attacked boogie.

 

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anita is an abuser of the system, she the type of person who's says she agrees with opinions except when they don't agree with hers, she's the type of person who raised 23,000$ for opening a discord channel. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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