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Spotty

The Verge: How we built a copyright strike

image.thumb.png.9b33ec385e4370ab52125ab2c87e4013.png

https://twitter.com/bitwitkyle/status/1095941247124963331

 

 

For those who wish to watch Bitwits video, here it is.

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8 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Oh? So The Verge has issued a statement regarding the issue... Let's fire up AdBlock and take a look shall we.

What I don't understand is why you titled this thread as if it was an interview with The Verge.


Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response!

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Hey @Spotty it gets better, and spicier as head Verge fella takes to Twitter against Paul.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulhardware/status/1096456078110248960

 

 

Also looks like the claims they made of reversing the strikes are BS. Kyle’s video was reinstated before the Verge/Vox apparently sent their email to reinstate the videos.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/lolsmcfee/status/1096466394185650176

 

 

 

 


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19 minutes ago, Spotty said:


 

Doesn't meet your standards? It's not your content! It doesn't have to meet your editorial standards!
 

I agree with everything you said except this.  He was talking about the original PC video didn't meet their standards, not Kyle's video.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
58 minutes ago, Beerbuddy said:

I agree with everything you said except this.  He was talking about the original PC video didn't meet their standards, not Kyle's video.

Hmm, yep. You're right. I misread and read it as he was saying the reaction videos did not meet his standards and so he had it pulled from YouTube, however re-reading it he was indeed referring to the video The Verge published which they [eventually] pulled down after huge community backlash. I'll fix up my post.

 

1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

Also looks like the claims they made of reversing the strikes are BS. Kyle’s video was reinstated before the Verge/Vox apparently sent their email to reinstate the videos.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/lolsmcfee/status/1096466394185650176

I thought that might have been the case, but with timezones (I'm in Aus) I wasn't sure how the time/date was displayed on twitter so didn't want to speak too soon. If the times shown are correct, then holy hell. The Verge just keeps digging their hole deeper.
 

1 hour ago, JoostinOnline said:

What I don't understand is why you titled this thread as if it was an interview with The Verge.

It's a play on the original video title from The Verge which sparked all of this; "How we built a $2000 gaming PC".


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3 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Hmm, yep. You're right. I misread and read it as he was saying the reaction videos did not meet his standards and so he had it pulled from YouTube, however re-reading it he was indeed referring to the video The Verge published which they [eventually] pulled down after huge community backlash. I'll fix up my post.

Would't surprise me considering how he's handling the whole situation like a child.  Very unprofessional and unethical.  

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Posted · Original PosterOP
21 minutes ago, Beerbuddy said:

 

Would't surprise me considering how he's handling the whole situation like a child.  Very unprofessional and unethical.  

How hard is it for The Verge to simply say
"Recently The Verge's parent company Vox Media issued DMCA takedown requests to a number of YouTube videos that were reactions videos to a video The Verge published in September 2018. The notices were issued to these videos as they contained a portion of copyrighted material from The Verge, and we believed that it may have been infringing on our copyright. YouTube has since reviewed those claims, and has determined that the claim we made on those channels were not legitimate and the use of The Verge's content in those videos was permitted under fair use. The Verge and Vox Media will endeavour to be more vigilant in checking the validity of any DMCA takedown notice or copyright claim we make prior to issuing it in the future. We apologise for any disruption caused to the channels involved."


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1 hour ago, Spotty said:

-snip-

Their website sucks too, majorly. Read the article and a comment one of their moderators posted I wanted to reply to so I clicked reply. The site just returns me to the top of the page with zero feedback, what just happened?? Maybe it's ad block, turn it off, nope same thing. Ok fine I'll try it in Edge, nope same thing. Ok, fine I'll create an account, click the link, nope nothing happens. What? Fine back to Chrome, wow now it works, what ever. Create an account, click reply, no you can't comment new accounts must wait 24 hours, ahh!!!

 

I'll address it here then, and if I can remember tomorrow over there, probably won't get read though.

image.png.9778a06a1ffc3fd6832a9eaeb8608f6a.png

 

The problem with that above comment is it implies that the tech Youtubes actually have anything to do with that at all, none of them have made any videos or talked about it in a long time, the story was over. People on the internet making comments are just people, doing what they do. If the tech Youtubers told them to stop they won't, probably make it worse by doing so. Far as I can see no lessons were learned about making sure the accuracy and facts are properly checked and presented, the direct cause of the situation.

 

Striking the videos in question would not have stopped the comments, do they really think enough people are actually watching those old videos that it is the causation of the comments. Do they not understand viewership numbers and video staying power, like check your own videos and you'll see just how irrelevant viewership wise they become after just a short time.

 

Maybe the video the Verge made and their handling of the commentary and critiquing was actually just that damaging to their reputation and that alone is the cause of the comments.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
16 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The problem with that above comment is it implies that the tech Youtubes actually have anything to do with that at all, none of them have made any videos or talked about it in a long time, the story was over. People on the internet making comments are just people, doing what they do. If the tech Youtubers told them to stop they won't, probably make it worse by doing so. Far as I can see no lessons were learned about making sure the accuracy and facts are properly checked and presented, the direct cause of the situation.

I think Steve from Gamers Nexus said it quite well in his video on the situation.
 

Quote

To be real here, The Verge for all of the sillyness in that video really it did not deserve an eternity of being criticised for that video. We kind of all got it out of our systems in the first couple of weeks there and everyone moved on. There's the occassional reference to tweezers instead of zip ties, but, at this point they're so far removed from this reference that it's just kind of a funny joke in the community.


Queued up to the time.

 


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Fair Use are mentioned a lot in this thread.  However YouTube have to obey more then US law and a lot of countries do not have Fair Use.  EU is one example that YouTube have to obey that don't have Fair Use laws.

 

This is a huge problem for YouTube and I wouldn't be surprised if they introduce publications zones.  Specially with the new EU laws that is upcoming.

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9 hours ago, BananaInSandals said:

 

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Their website sucks too, majorly. Read the article and a comment one of their moderators posted I wanted to reply to so I clicked reply. The site just returns me to the top of the page with zero feedback, what just happened?? Maybe it's ad block, turn it off, nope same thing. Ok fine I'll try it in Edge, nope same thing. Ok, fine I'll create an account, click the link, nope nothing happens. What? Fine back to Chrome, wow now it works, what ever. Create an account, click reply, no you can't comment new accounts must wait 24 hours, ahh!!!

Funny thing is, I checked the link and clicked to view the comments.

 

"There was an error loading the comments.  Please try again later".

 

What do you want to bet that they killed the comments for that article, because people were calling them out on their nonsense.  I'm currently reading the comments on archive.org, to see if I'm right.

 

*EDIT*
Never mind, turns out PIA was the issue.  Disabling that allowed the comments to load.  Sometimes I forget that's even running.

Edited by Jito463
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40 minutes ago, Kroon said:

Fair Use are mentioned a lot in this thread.  However YouTube have to obey more then US law and a lot of countries do not have Fair Use.  EU is one example that YouTube have to obey that don't have Fair Use laws.

 

This is a huge problem for YouTube and I wouldn't be surprised if they introduce publications zones.  Specially with the new EU laws that is upcoming.

The EU does have Fair Use but it's not as flexible as other places and a more specific set defined and parody is one of those.

https://www.authorsalliance.org/2016/02/25/international-fair-use-developments-is-fair-use-going-global/

 

Quote

(k) use for the purpose of caricature, parody or pastiche;

 

Quote

d) quotations for purposes such as criticism or review, provided that they relate to a work or other subject-matter which has already been lawfully made available to the public, that, unless this turns out to be impossible, the source, including the author's name, is indicated, and that their use is in accordance with fair practice, and to the extent required by the specific purpose;

 

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2001:167:0010:0019:EN:PDF

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Posted · Original PosterOP

[Puts on tin foil hat]

In the WAN show @LinusTech and @Slick read Nilay Patel's response which included claims that Nilay Patel was the one that reversed the decision and that YouTube didn't get involved... However those claims are untrue.

Check the time and date on Kyle's Tweet saying that his video was restored by Youtube, compared to the time and date that Nilay Patel claims he retracted the copyright strike on Bitwits video.

Kyle's Tweet** was posted 11:02pm 13th February 2019
Nilay Patels email retracting the takedown notice was 2:15am 14th February 2019.

Just to add further clarification, even with the 3 hour time zone difference between California (Kyle) and New York (Nilay Patel), the timestamps of the tweet and email still place Bitwits tweet prior to Nilay's email.

**Worth considering that Kyle would have received the email prior to posting a tweet about it, so Youtubes decision to reverse it could have been even earlier. If you were interested in double checking the facts I'm sure @bitwit will be happy to share *when* YouTube sent him an email notifying him of their decision to reverse the claim, and where it lines up in the timeline of events.

Nilay Patel only sent off the email retracting the claim AFTER Youtube had already intervened and reversed the strike. The decision for the video to be reinstated had already been made prior to Nilay Patel issuing his retraction to YouTube.

 

image.png.433799461730945e9e4ee777d2e73646.png

image.thumb.png.0d2882cdf39ecbdde4e16915611fa425.png


From The Verge article: https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/15/18226105/a-note-about-youtube-copyright-strikes-from-vox-media

Quote

At my direction, the strikes were retracted. Here's the note from YouTube:
Again, the strikes were retracted at my specific instruction, not through any YouTube dispute process.


Also on Twitter Nilay Patel lies multiple times stating that *he* retracted the claim, even though by the time he sent that email it had already been reversed by YouTube several hours prior.



As noted by Kyle in his tweets, after Youtube reversed the copyright strike and issued an email to Vox Media stating that the claim was not valid, Vox Media still had an opportunity to dispute that outcome and continue to pursue the matter. It's possible that Nilay Patels email to Youtube to retract the claim was Vox Medias/The Verges way of electing not to pursue the matter further after the decision to reverse it was already made by Youtube.
However, Nilay Patel is intentionally lying by saying that YouTube was not involved in the decision as he states that it was "not through any Youtube dispute process" and that it was entirely his/Vox Medias/The Verges decision to retract the claim.


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35 minutes ago, leadeater said:

d) quotations for purposes such as criticism or review, provided that they relate to a work or other subject-matter which has already been lawfully made available to the public, that, unless this turns out to be impossible, the source, including the author's name, is indicated, and that their use is in accordance with fair practice, and to the extent required by the specific purpose;

 

To continue that quote:

Quote

Quoting long extracts is illegal, even if the source is mentioned. The quotation must be made to corroborate an opinion or to criticise a position and should not be the sole source for a book.

 

First to be clear the term "Fair Use" are none existent in EU, not even close.  

 

There have been large amount of lawsuits on this subjects and the quotes you can do are REALLY limited and the source must be be well documented. In some cases the quotation where less then 10% of the original and court found if was to much.   Then we actually have the issue with when you can quote someone, making a satire in not one of them.

 

Note I do not agree with how EU law currently work and the upcoming changes are even worse.  But I do see how YouTube struggle in this jungle of laws they have to obey.

 

Edit:

You looked at the/linked 2001 version, I actually looked at an older one but the newest version is from 2012.  I'm to tired  to read through all that right now, 04:20 here.

Edited by Kroon
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36 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Nilay Patel only sent off the email retracting the claim AFTER Youtube had already intervened and reversed the strike. The decision for the video to be reinstated had already been made prior to Nilay Patel issuing his retraction to YouTube.

-snip-
 

Couldn't the time difference in the email and Kyle's tweet, be time zone related?

Twitter will show the time something was posted as per your current time zone, but a screenshot of an email wouldn't be adapted to your own timezone. So if Kyle is on the West coast and that guy is on the East coast, the difference in time could somewhat be explained... 


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What if Vox/Verge started this utter shit-storm under the pretense of 'any publicity is good publicity' because their viewership/readership is tanking?

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Posted (edited) · Original PosterOP
20 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Couldn't the time difference in the email and Kyle's tweet, be time zone related?

Twitter will show the time something was posted as per your current time zone, but a screenshot of an email wouldn't be adapted to your own timezone. So if Kyle is on the West coast and that guy is on the East coast, the difference in time could somewhat be explained... 

I'm in Australia, so if twitter was showing my time zone then Kyle's tweet would show almost a day later. (I'm 19 hours ahead of Bitwit in California). There's also been other people who have pointed out that the timestamp difference with Kyle's tweet being before the emails Nilay Patel posted, so I don't think it's an issue with my local time zone. Maybe Kyle can provide the timestamp that he received the email (his local time) and that might give us a clearer picture of the timeline.

@TetraSky what time/date does the tweet from Bitwit show for you?

When I paste the embedded thing here, it shows when it was posted my local time (6:02PM - Feb 14, 2019), however if I hover over the timestamp it shows Feb 14th 07:02:09 (UTC) time, which is 11:02:09pm Feb 13th California time, which matches the time I quoted earlier. But I would still like to double check that other people are seeing the same time.

Kyle is 3 hours behind Nilay Patel and The Verge who are based in New York. HOWEVER it's entirely possible that Nilay Patel is travelling somewhere else and is in a different time zone, or whoever sent the email is outside of USA and in a different time zone. I have reached out to Nilay Patel on twitter and raised my concerns with the timestamps and asked if he would like to comment on the matter. As of yet I haven't received a reply, but if I do receive one I will be sure to update with it.

Edited by Spotty

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45 minutes ago, Bitter said:

What if Vox/Verge started this utter shit-storm under the pretense of 'any publicity is good publicity' because their viewership/readership is tanking?

I think thats why the Vox/Verge brought it back up by going after channels that had responses to their video, while it does bring the Vox/Verge attention, I don't see why they'd want to though as GamersNexus (Steve) said everyone moved on from it. And it makes the situation even worse with how they're accusing BitWit (Kyle) of being racist,and the Verge editor in chief lying by claiming they took down the copyright claim without Youtube stepping in.  If the Verge is lying about taking the claim down before Youtube did,they should be accountable for it. 

Instead of  backpedaling really hard by trying to be the victim, all the Verge would have had to do is make a statement that they were wrong,and since they're a large publication the Verge should have made another video correcting everything that could have misled people new to PC building into potentially destroying their hardware.

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5 hours ago, Valentyn said:

They claim Kyle and his video are Racist,

Yes, he is in their heads because he's a white man and criticises a black man.

That is, in the religion of Intersectionality racist.


Why in the world it matters, don't tell me. I don't get it either.

I just know that that is how they see the world.

 

And if you think: "man, that looks racist". I'd agree with that.

 

Quote

and still violated fair use lol. Claiming his video is 90% just unedited upload the Verge's original.

Yeah, that looked like commentary to me.

He played a couple of Seconds and then commented on it...

 

Quote

Has the H3H3 lawsuit taught them nothing; they reek of Hypocrisy. 

No, because "personal responsibility" is a right wing thing....

 

But well, the more we tell "normal people" about he stuff and they stop using their site, the sooner they go down...

And they deserve it...

Well, only a question of time until they go down...

 

Sadly I fear that it takes another 5-6 Years until they are gone...


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1 hour ago, Kroon said:

You looked at the/linked 2001 version, I actually looked at an older one but the newest version is from 2012.  I'm to tired  to read through all that right now, 04:20 here.

No problem, didn't know there was a newer version either I just followed the article link. What you said is likely still accurate for any of the versions, the EU usage rights are much more strict and people have tried to address it for the better.

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1 hour ago, Bitter said:

What if Vox/Verge started this utter shit-storm under the pretense of 'any publicity is good publicity' because their viewership/readership is tanking?

I'll admit to have wondering this a few times. If you look at the choices as isolated cases (I mean everything surrounding the original "guide"), arguing that they were just bad decisions isn't far fetched. It's just that it keeps happening. Just off the top of my head, these are the things they obviously shouldn't have done, but did anyway.

 

  1. Making a complete failure of a guide
  2. Disabling comments on the video
  3. Waiting like a week to take down the video
  4. Saying the criticisms of the mistakes had something to do with the builder's race, rather than just apologizing for the bad video
  5. After all but the trolls had moved on to other things, copystriking reaction videos
  6. Pretending you have the moral high ground and trying to shame everyone for calling you out
  7. Screenshotting an obvious attack at their viability in the market and calling it a death threat

Despite the saying, the Internet absolutely forgets. Most people have forgotten the "Just Buy It" RTX article, even though it happened around the same time.

 

PS: Full disclosure, I think the Lyle character is distasteful. Regardless, it's not my business and I'm not going to pretend I have the authority to judge if it's right or wrong. I think it's okay for people to dislike it, but don't use it to make yourself look better.


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32 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I think the Lyle character is distasteful.

if i remember right it's based on him being on the receiving end of that such of mockery earlier in life ._. so yeah he gets to do it because he's clowning his own ethnicity

 

although my ears cry everytime i hear that ,_,

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Vox, and in extension the Verge, is simply full of a bunch of namby pamby snowflakes who cry racist, sexist, misogynistic, "insert sjw buzzword here" if an actual cis-male white person (ohmygosh!!!!) criticizes their non-white employees when they rightly deserve it.

 

I refuse to watch or read their content because their bias is as obvious as smelling salts are to a blitzed out druggie.

 

Alright I had to get that off my chest, take it as you will...

Edited by Phentos
Toned it down.

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I like how The Verge called "Lyre" racist without actually doing research on Kyle's background. Just google "Bitwit Kyle race" and you'd see Kyle's grandparents, who are clearly Asian... Some journalist indeed lol

 

Seriously tho, if I were Vox's directors or investors, I'd ask them changing the PR team. Or ask that "Editor in chief" to run whatever he posts through the PR team if he hadn't. He stepped on every single PR landmine ever known to mankind... A simple "we're sorry and we won't do that again" would have done whatever he want to say without screwing everyone up. Sometimes, PR is about saying sorry even when you don't have to.

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18 hours ago, BananaInSandals said:

The Verge's statement about the issue

 

TL;DR the Verge claimed that it was their legal team taking action without consulting anyone else prior. And it was the Verge who had taken down the strike, instead of YouTube as indicated by Kyle's Tweet. Furthermore, The Verge condemned comments and posts making "life threats".

another one who should really consider a crash course in programming

#learntocode


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