Is using a PC instead of router a good idea?

[bololabich]

I'll be moving from copper Internet connection to 4G LTE (yeah fiber would be better but no one offers it and 1TB of ~130Mb/s LTE ain't bad..) and thus I need to buy a new router for a 4G modem - most likely Xiaomi Mi Router 3g, but I also have old C2D notebook motherboard with Windows Server 2016 installed so I thought if I could just use it instead? It would give me a lot more features, power consumption shouldn't be too high (I hope) and it has Gigabit LAN. How about the performance though? Won't windows' bridge feature decrease my internet transfer speed? Are there any other possible issues I may not be aware of?

When it comes to Wi-Fi and LAN distribution I don't really care as I have APs set up and Gigabit switch already.

 

[KarathKasun]

You do not use the bridge feature.  You need to install routing services.

 

You would be better off using PFSense if the LTE device will work with it.

 

Another option is to use Windows server 2016 to abstract the driver layer away and use a PFSense VM to do actual routing.

[bololabich]

Looked that up and dunno if it supports USB modems but similarly it would be possible to install OpenWRT on VM and it does support these modems for sure.

 

 

 

[bololabich]

UPDATE
After some consideration I think windows alone will be good enough without openWRT but I'd also like to have a Wi-Fi access point so here is the issue, I can't just redirect an PCI-E card to VM to use openWRT as an AP so my only option would be making na AP directly on Windows 10 (as I think it will overall be better than win server in my usage scenario). Is it even possible to create an 5GHz AC access point on win 10? I don't have any spare Wi-Fi card to check it so It's sth I'll need to buy wf it would even work. I've only found this kinda ambiguous note on Intel's website.  

[KarathKasun]

5 minutes ago, bololabich said:

UPDATE
After some consideration I think windows alone will be good enough without openWRT but I'd also like to have a Wi-Fi access point so here is the issue, I can't just redirect an PCI-E card to VM to use openWRT as an AP so my only option would be making na AP directly on Windows 10 (as I think it will overall be better than win server in my usage scenario). Is it even possible to create an 5GHz AC access point on win 10? I don't have any spare Wi-Fi card to check it so It's sth I'll need to buy wf it would even work. I've only found this kinda ambiguous note on Intel's website. 

The WiFi adapter has to support AP mode.

 

Its cheaper to get a WiFi router and disable its DHCP server, after which you can use it as a WiFi/Ethernet bridge (AKA Access Point).  This is effectively how managed WiFi networks operate, except they have a central management point.

[bololabich]

Yes but I'd still need to replace my current AP with something like Mi Router 3G to get 5GHz AC, which I need regardless and both it and my DIY server as a router just won't be enough anymore. Current highest model of intel WiFi card is 9260 and it's only 15$ on aliexpress. Only problem might be windows itself blocking 5GHz AP/hotspot feature so that's what I'm asking about.

 

[KarathKasun]

7 minutes ago, bololabich said:

Yes but I'd still need to replace my current AP with something like Mi Router 3G to get 5GHz AC, which I need regardless and both it and my DIY server as a router just won't be enough anymore. Current highest model of intel WiFi card is 9260 and it's only 15$ on aliexpress. Only problem might be windows itself blocking 5GHz AP/hotspot feature so that's what I'm asking about.

 

Windows does not care about 2.4/5ghz.  The DRIVER has to support AP mode.  That model does NOT support 5ghz AP mode, regardless of the OS.

 

https://www.amazon.com/d/Routers/Linksys-Simultaneous-Dual-Band-Wireless-N-Refurbished/B005S0BYQ6/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1550106550&sr=1-4&keywords=Router+2.4ghz++5ghz

 

You do not use the router as a router, just as a wifi access point.

[bololabich]

I see, that's strange that latest model does not support it  oh well do you know any AC enabled wifi card with 5GHz AP mode? (mPCI-E would be best but m2 will do too as there are some adapters)

 

[KarathKasun]

1 minute ago, bololabich said:

I see, that's strange that latest model does not support it  oh well do you know any AC enabled wifi card with 5GHz AP mode? (mPCI-E would be best but m2 will do too as there are some adapters)

 

No.

 

You get a cheap WiFi router and set it up as ONLY an AP, use the server for routing and internet connection.

[bololabich]

Well that's gonna be worst case scenario then cuz there aren't any cheap AC routers/APs yet and I really do need to upgrade to AC and still having one device on all the time is better than having 2nd one wasting electricity as well  I'll just look for a card with 5GHz AP for now. It's not like I'm in hurry, I won't be touching it for few weeks regardless as I have too much coding to do

[KarathKasun]

2 minutes ago, bololabich said:

Well that's gonna be worst case scenario then cuz there aren't any cheap AC routers/APs yet and I really do need to upgrade to AC and still having one device on all the time is better than having 2nd one wasting electricity as well  I'll just look for a card with 5GHz AP for now. It's not like I'm in hurry, I won't be touching it for few weeks regardless as I have too much coding to do

On the router, you connect it to your ethernet network with one of the client ports, you leave the "internet" port unused.  You also need to disable DHCP in its menu before you connect it, as well as assigning it an address that is on your subnet.  If your server gives out IP's that look like "192.168.0.X" with a subnet of "255.255.255.0", you would give the WiFi "router" an IP of 192.168.0.254 with a subnet of 255.255.255.0.  This way you can still log into its settings menu.

 

Also...

https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-AC750-Dual-Band-Router-F9K1116/dp/B00C4OAPBE/ref=sr_1_9?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1550107096&sr=1-9&keywords=Router+AC

 

or

 

https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-AC750-Dual-Band-Router-F9K1116/dp/B00JY4QCJQ/ref=sr_1_9?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1550107096&sr=1-9&keywords=Router%2BAC&th=1

[KarathKasun]

Honestly, finding a properly functioning WiFi adapter for AP use is fairly impossible if you intend to use Windows Server.

 

The Linux side of things has far more options because of community drivers, however your options are still very limited.

[bololabich]

I know how to set up a router no worries  and here is a promising thread, https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-networking/windows-10-5ghz-hotspot/fbde787d-2500-43fe-aa1c-32819a1b4b84 these cards are like 3€ so it's worth doing an experiment I think  These routers are surprisingly cheap  cheapest AC I can have in here is 26€ for 2nd hand. 

 

[KarathKasun]

Yeah, they only have 100mbit ethernet though.  Which means that there will be a 100mbps bottleneck when connecting to any non WiFi device/network.

[KarathKasun]

Also, the 5ghz AP mode thing is a LEGAL problem and not strictly a hardware problem.  There are driver hacks for Linux to get around this.

[bololabich]

Then it might not be any better than regular N. I'm doing a lot of remote display recently for both games and work and my current WiFi is too slow for that, that's why I need an upgrade

Yeah the notice on Intel's website mentions legal issues but these is nothing about any of the EU there and I doubt they wouldn't mention even a single EU state (laws like this are always EU-wide) if it was illegal here

 

[KarathKasun]

Well, the laws are also under a international regulation thing, so its universally implemented in hardware.  Which is lame AF.

[Alex Atkin UK]

The legal issue is DFS channels, channels 36-48 should work fine, on supported hardware/drivers.

 

Honestly if you are going this route I'd definitely recommend Linux over Windows for the VM server, or just go OpenWRT. (which is probably easist to be honest)

I used to use a build of OpenWRT x86 for my router and it worked great as a WiFi AP.  I later switched to pfSense and a seperate router as the AP because 802.11ac doesn't seem to be as well supported as on dedicated hardware.  I've even tried the PCIe card from my Archer C7 in my Linux box and couldn't get decent performance compared to the Archer C7 itself, which I know is HEAVILY CPU bound (so tops out at 400Mbit when it should be hitting more like 600Mbit).

[KarathKasun]

39 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

The legal issue is DFS channels, channels 36-48 should work fine, on supported hardware/drivers.

 

Honestly if you are going this route I'd definitely recommend Linux over Windows for the VM server, or just go OpenWRT. (which is probably easist to be honest)

I used to use a build of OpenWRT x86 for my router and it worked great as a WiFi AP.  I later switched to pfSense and a seperate router as the AP because 802.11ac doesn't seem to be as well supported as on dedicated hardware.  I've even tried the PCIe card from my Archer C7 in my Linux box and couldn't get decent performance compared to the Archer C7 itself, which I know is HEAVILY CPU bound (so tops out at 400Mbit when it should be hitting more like 600Mbit).

With 5ghz, mobile devices can not initiate 5ghz wifi traffic at all due to aircraft.  The chips in laptops are the same as those in desktops, so they are not permitted to initiate 5ghz communication.

 

OP has a 4g USB modem, support in linux for those can be spotty at best.  Windows as a VM host allows you to get around the driver shenanigans that exist in the linux wireless ecosystem.

[Alex Atkin UK]

37 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

With 5ghz, mobile devices can not initiate 5ghz wifi traffic at all due to aircraft.  The chips in laptops are the same as those in desktops, so they are not permitted to initiate 5ghz communication.

 

OP has a 4g USB modem, support in linux for those can be spotty at best.  Windows as a VM host allows you to get around the driver shenanigans that exist in the linux wireless ecosystem.

Pretty sure that only applies to DFS channels not the lower ones.  In most countries that's only above channel 48.

 

Most devices will connect to any channel with DFS support,  Access Point is sometimes limited to 36, 38, 40, 42 but other times 44,46,48 will work too.  I have encountered the odd client that only supports 36-42 as well due to poor regulatory support, but most will work on any channel.

I'm speaking from experience of before OpenWRT had DFS support so you had to stick to the none-DFS channels.  These days it should follow the regulatory requirements correctly. (although I notice it doesn't support channels 32 and 34 which are now allowed in Europe)

I'm going to be testing pfSense and possibly OpenWRT with a 4G Mobile Access Point in USB mode myself soon, so will be able to feedback more then.  Failing that, I will connect to it over WiFi.

 

I have various Access Points and P2P links across the spectrum so have faught with this quite a bit.

[KarathKasun]

Its all frequencies from what I am finding.  The regulation applies to MOBILE devices, which covers all phone and laptop chipsets.  And by extension, that covers any add-in card for a PC since they use the same software/hardware as the laptop parts.

[Mikensan]

Even with 5ghz AC you're not going to get 130mbps over wireless unless you have line of sight. Once you go to the other side of a wall it's all downhill from there. 5ghz just deteriorates fast. That's also assuming you'll get 130mbps using whatever LTE modem you decide to get. 

 

Using Windows as a perimeter firewall is like using your ass for a bumper on a car. Lot more could go wrong, but yea sure there's "some" cushion for impact.

 

I would just remove windows and install something akin to untangle (linux based firewall) so you have more support for wifi cards. pfSense/FreeBSD does have a lot of support, but not like linux. You could install ESXi (free) and pass the pci express card directly to a VM unless the server predates 2009.

 

Or save some money for a little while and buy a wireless router that does what you want. 

[bololabich]

So here is a small update: I've ordered Xiaomi Mi Router 3g and it's on the way from China so it is gonna take a while. I'll flash it with OpenWRT and from what I've read it seams that OpenWRT will easily cover like 90% of the tasks I'd put on a server so for now I think I'll just eliminate it and if I feel like it I can add it later on. Sorry for not replying earlier but I've got too much work on my head  

I'll come back when my router arrives.

[KarathKasun]

On 2/15/2019 at 7:14 AM, Mikensan said:

Even with 5ghz AC you're not going to get 130mbps over wireless unless you have line of sight. Once you go to the other side of a wall it's all downhill from there. 5ghz just deteriorates fast. That's also assuming you'll get 130mbps using whatever LTE modem you decide to get. 

 

Using Windows as a perimeter firewall is like using your ass for a bumper on a car. Lot more could go wrong, but yea sure there's "some" cushion for impact.

 

I would just remove windows and install something akin to untangle (linux based firewall) so you have more support for wifi cards. pfSense/FreeBSD does have a lot of support, but not like linux. You could install ESXi (free) and pass the pci express card directly to a VM unless the server predates 2009.

 

Or save some money for a little while and buy a wireless router that does what you want. 

I can get 400mb/s across the house, through walls even.  Not sure what problems you are having with AC bandwidth.

[Donut417]

On 2/8/2019 at 7:49 PM, bololabich said:

thus I need to buy a new router for a 4G modem

Just wanted to say that I have a Synology RT2600 AC router and it supports 4G LTE modems via USB, so just going to through that out there. 

 

On 2/15/2019 at 8:14 AM, Mikensan said:

Even with 5ghz AC you're not going to get 130mbps over wireless unless you have line of sight.

I call BS. Even having two walls between my router and computer and one of those walls being thickish plaster I was able to get full speeds. I get full speeds via 5Ghz in my entire house, no issues.