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Orcblood

AMD Delays Navi to Q4 2019

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Blech. I really want to upgrade my GTX 970 but don't want to pay for the RTX garbage, and the rumored GTX 1660 Ti doesn't look like much of an upgrade for $280. God I hope Navi isn't a pos like Vega.


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Why AMD ?

"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE",by jayztwocents

I hope that navi will be actually worth it.

But 1 question , how nvidia beats amd (7nm) using a 12nm process 

how the hell can they do this ?

What is AMD doing wrong ?

 


Why I die when I fall into the void?

If you can hear silence, you will know what I am talking about .

The void is not empty it just kills you since you cannot hear it's warning.

If you can hear silence, you will know what I am talking about .

It says:" you need to be in survival mode to know my secret"

If you can hear silence, you will know what I am talking about .

So let's invest in breaking bedrock in survival, instead of killing each other in PvP.

Let's change the world .

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2 hours ago, Void Master said:

Why AMD ?

"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE",by jayztwocents

I hope that navi will be actually worth it.

But 1 question , how nvidia beats amd (7nm) using a 12nm process 

how the hell can they do this ?

What is AMD doing wrong ?

 

is quite simple amds max config has been 4 shader engines each with 16 compute units, to reach 64 compute units problem is that for gaming past 11 compute units per shader engine efficiency drops, so 64 compute units isn't a very efficient config, and because they haven't increased the number CUs since fiji (fury X) the only things bringing performance up are clock speeds and architecture efficiency advances. what is stopping them from adding more shader engines is their hardware scheduler which is a difficult block to change as its very complex as its the brain of the operation and its need to change to allow the support of those extra shader engines. they seem to be changing it slowly, so we might see a gcn card with more of them one day (the last chance is probably big navi as after that it wont be gcn anymore)

 

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I just bought two R9 Fury's to upgrade my rigs (second one arrives Monday) - I planned on waiting anyhow...lol.  


Space Heater: ASUS M5A99FX PRO r2.0, AMD FX-8350, Sapphire R9 Fury Tri-X Nitro 4gb HBM, 16gb (4x4) Corsair Vengeance DDR3, Corsair HX850 PSU, Corsair H100i GTX 240mm AIO cooler, 500gb Samsung 840 EVO SSD, CoolerMaster HAF XM Case

Ryzen Rig: ASUS B350-PRIME, Ryzen 7 1700, Sapphire R9 Fury Tri-X Nitro 4gb HBM, 16gb (2x8) Patriot Viper DDR4 2133, ANTEC Earthwatts 750w PSU, MasterLiquid Lite 120 AIO cooler in Push/Pull config as rear exhaust, 250gb Samsung 850 Evo SSD, Patriot Burst 240gb SSD, 640gb WD Blue 7200 RPM Mech drive, Rosewill Nautilus 1.0 Case

Media Center: HP Pro 6300 MT, i5-3470, Sapphire HD 7750 1gb GPU, 8 gb (4x2) Gskill Ripjaws DDR3, Lite On 320w PSU, Stock HP Cooler, 60gb Patriot SSD boot drive, 1tb WD 7200 RPM Mechanical drive, 500gb Toshiba 7200 RPM Mech Drive with Win 7, Rosewill 4x External 1x Internal USB PCI hub, ASUS AC55BT wifi adapter, LG Blu Ray/M-Disc/DVD/CD Player/Burner, LG DVD/CD Player/Burner, 3.5" Media Card Reader (about to do a complete overhaul on the HTPC, build post incoming....loop, GPU upgrade etc!)

Micro Form Factor Dell OptiPlex 3040: Dell 0MGK50 A02, i3-6100T, 4gb DDR3 1600, Team Group 120gb SSD, Windows 10 Pro, Logitech K400+

 

A couple laptops and tablets around the house

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can it really be considered delayed if the only release dates we had were rumour.   It's kinda like saying a nasa launch was delayed because some bloke down the pub said he thought it should have happened the week earlier on his day off.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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5 hours ago, Orcblood said:

Don't take this as truth but I ,as a software developer, think it's cause when optimizing low level code in the case of drivers, the simplicity of abstraction is given up in place for specific and more complex code. The more unique code there is and the less use of abstraction the more chances that the developer(s) are going to break something. GPU driver developers are told to make things run better for a specific games (usually AAA titles) because the mass market for GPUs cares about high framrates alot and look to these games for performance stats. 

But how is it nVidia has the most stable drivers? I'm speaking for myself so don't take it as an attack against AMD.

I had nVidia 9600M GT, I had GTX780 and then 1080Ti. As far as I can remember, I never had problems with the drivers and if I had, I would simply reset settings or reinstall the same driver and problems are gone. Like I said, I'm only speaking for myself.

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17 minutes ago, mr moose said:

can it really be considered delayed if the only release dates we had were rumour.   It's kinda like saying a nasa launch was delayed because some bloke down the pub said he thought it should have happened the week earlier on his day off.

not the same thing its more like we heard from a guy on a pub that his friend working for a nasa subcontractor heard/knows it should have happened at X date

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41 minutes ago, mr moose said:

can it really be considered delayed if the only release dates we had were rumour.   It's kinda like saying a nasa launch was delayed because some bloke down the pub said he thought it should have happened the week earlier on his day off.

Well, AMD planned to release Navi after showing it off at CES.  None of that happened because Navi wasn't ready.  So, we got the Radeon VII workstation/gaming card instead.  The rumors about the other release is most likely a rumor, but that was based on Computex.


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CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950x | CPU Cooling: EKWB S280 with the EK Supremacy sTR4 RGB Nickel Water Block and Scarlet Red Premix | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut | Mobo: Asrock X399 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GBs (2x16) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX500 500GB M.2-2280 SSD/PNY CS900 240GB SSD/Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM/Toshiba X300 4TB 7200RPM | GPU: Zotac Geforce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Edition | Case: Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition w/Window | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 | Operating System: Windows 10 Pro | Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K70 with Cherry MX Reds | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB FPS | Headphones:  AKG K7XX Massdrop Editions | Mic: Audio-Technica ATR2500 | Speakers: Mackie MR624 Studio Monitors

 

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CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G(Temp/Upping to a Zen 2 CPU) | CPU Cooling: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryronaut | Mobo: Asrock x470 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 8GBs (2x4) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX200 240GB SSD+Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM | GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB 6 GB SSC GAMING  | Case: Fractal Focus G | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: Random HP DVD Drive | Operating System: Windows 10 Home | Keyboard: Gigabyte FORCE K83 with Cherry MX Reds | MouseRazer DeathAdder Elite Destiny 2 Edition Speakers: JBL LSR 305 Studio Monitors(At some point)

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26 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

not the same thing its more like we heard from a guy on a pub that his friend working for a nasa subcontractor heard/knows it should have happened at X date

The number of rumours that are wrong from "reputable" tech sources is enough for it to be the same for me.

 

In fact to be quite honest, sometimes I think the man down the pub has a better idea because he isn't conflating what he thinks are important factors, he's just going of when his RDO is.

 

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, AMD planned to release Navi after showing it off at CES.  None of that happened because Navi wasn't ready.  So, we got the Radeon VII workstation/gaming card instead.  The rumors about the other release is most likely a rumor, but that was based on Computex.

So we only have rumour as AMD haven't actually said when they are going to launch it? 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The number of rumours that are wrong from "reputable" tech sources is enough for it to be the same for me.

 

In fact to be quite honest, sometimes I think the man down the pub has a better idea because he isn't conflating what he thinks are important factors, he's just going of when his RDO is.

 

So we only have rumour as AMD haven't actually said when they are going to launch it? 

It was semi-confirmed yet wasn't ready, and then rumor yet nothing directly from AMD backing the second one.  Basically, the rumor for this summer was the one that has nothing from AMD backing it.


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CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950x | CPU Cooling: EKWB S280 with the EK Supremacy sTR4 RGB Nickel Water Block and Scarlet Red Premix | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut | Mobo: Asrock X399 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GBs (2x16) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX500 500GB M.2-2280 SSD/PNY CS900 240GB SSD/Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM/Toshiba X300 4TB 7200RPM | GPU: Zotac Geforce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Edition | Case: Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition w/Window | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 | Operating System: Windows 10 Pro | Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K70 with Cherry MX Reds | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB FPS | Headphones:  AKG K7XX Massdrop Editions | Mic: Audio-Technica ATR2500 | Speakers: Mackie MR624 Studio Monitors

 

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6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

It was semi-confirmed yet wasn't ready, and then rumor yet nothing directly from AMD backing the second one.  Basically, the rumor for this summer was the one that has nothing from AMD backing it.

so basically no actual date for release, which means it isn't delayed.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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Just now, mr moose said:

so basically no actual date for release, which means it isn't delayed.

Only delayed on the CES/Feb launch crap that they were planning for, but for the summer date, it's not delayed.  So, ya you're correct there.


VashTheStampede 4.0:

CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950x | CPU Cooling: EKWB S280 with the EK Supremacy sTR4 RGB Nickel Water Block and Scarlet Red Premix | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut | Mobo: Asrock X399 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GBs (2x16) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX500 500GB M.2-2280 SSD/PNY CS900 240GB SSD/Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM/Toshiba X300 4TB 7200RPM | GPU: Zotac Geforce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Edition | Case: Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition w/Window | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 | Operating System: Windows 10 Pro | Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K70 with Cherry MX Reds | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB FPS | Headphones:  AKG K7XX Massdrop Editions | Mic: Audio-Technica ATR2500 | Speakers: Mackie MR624 Studio Monitors

 

Prince of Dark Rock:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G(Temp/Upping to a Zen 2 CPU) | CPU Cooling: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryronaut | Mobo: Asrock x470 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 8GBs (2x4) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX200 240GB SSD+Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM | GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB 6 GB SSC GAMING  | Case: Fractal Focus G | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: Random HP DVD Drive | Operating System: Windows 10 Home | Keyboard: Gigabyte FORCE K83 with Cherry MX Reds | MouseRazer DeathAdder Elite Destiny 2 Edition Speakers: JBL LSR 305 Studio Monitors(At some point)

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1 hour ago, CTR640 said:

But how is it nVidia has the most stable drivers?

They don't that's just bullshit.

And what you're missing is who takes care about whom.

 

In this case the Game Developers take care about nVidia. So the claim that "nvidia has awesome drivers" is just horse shit when everyone makes their software so that it runs on said company. Even if they have total garbage drivers, you woudln't notice it ever.

1 hour ago, CTR640 said:

As far as I can remember, I never had problems with the drivers 

Oh, there were a couple of noticable ones over the time.

For example faulty fan controllers, dying cards and other shit. Like the TressFX stuff that nVidia didn't want to fix on their part, so for you it took like 6 Months to fix that shit.


But people still believe the lie of the "good Driver", when its not correct.

 

You can really prove that on the other side of the Operating system, where nVidia doesn't give a shit about the specifications, driver APIs...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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56 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

They don't that's just bullshit.

And what you're missing is who takes care about whom.

 

In this case the Game Developers take care about nVidia. So the claim that "nvidia has awesome drivers" is just horse shit when everyone makes their software so that it runs on said company. Even if they have total garbage drivers, you woudln't notice it ever.

Oh, there were a couple of noticable ones over the time.

For example faulty fan controllers, dying cards and other shit. Like the TressFX stuff that nVidia didn't want to fix on their part, so for you it took like 6 Months to fix that shit.


But people still believe the lie of the "good Driver", when its not correct.

 

You can really prove that on the other side of the Operating system, where nVidia doesn't give a shit about the specifications, driver APIs...

Yeah, that's why I said I'm speaking for myself as I shared my experience.

A friend told me he has 1080Ti too but each newer driver he installed, works like shit for him. Many newer drivers causes him troubles for months so he reverted back to 399.07.

 

nVidia has been way too arrogant the past two years or so, so not surprising they doesn't give a shit. If this keeps up, I'm afraid about the future of the consumers GPU's.

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25 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

nVidia has been way too arrogant the past two years or so, so not surprising they doesn't give a shit. If this keeps up, I'm afraid about the future of the consumers GPU's.

There's a simple solution for that:

 

Just don't buy them.

 

Simple as that.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Sad news... but then again, my 7970 can still last me a bit longer. I really just want a new CPU... Zen 2 cannot out soon enough.


CPU: Intel Core i7 875k / GPU: Radeon HD7970 GHz 3GB  / RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GBx2 DDR3-1600
MOBO: ASUS P7P55D-e LX / SSD: Intel 520 120GB / Case: Cooler Master HAF912 / PSU: Corsair TX850w / OS: Windows 10 Pro

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27 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

There's a simple solution for that:

 

Just don't buy them.

 

Simple as that.

I know. If only more people would share the same.

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9 hours ago, yian88 said:

drivers are shit im sick of drivers issues, is this hell ever going to end with some new smart engineering that doesnt require so much GPU driver development? 

If Navi is pushed back from a July release and we are already hearing about it then it is not because of drivers. It would be either due to fab time or some other silicon issue.

 

9 hours ago, yian88 said:

 why cant they reuse code each gpu needs years to mature drivers, ridiculous something is not right in the world of GPU drivers and i dont know what exactly, maybe its the fact that driver devs have to fix shit games on windows, what about small games that dont ever receive driver support they work just fine out of the box why they work but AAA games not?

It seems like GPU drivers are unlike any other device drivers. There are no other hardware devices in the world where the IHV has to regularly go in and tweak the drivers to optimize for different software applications. Theoretically if each layer is doing it's job properly (especially with Vulkan/DX12) there should be no need for continious application specific fixes. But it seems like with the complexity of GPU drivers at this point even calling them merely drivers is insufficient...

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1 hour ago, CTR640 said:

Yeah, that's why I said I'm speaking for myself as I shared my experience.

A friend told me he has 1080Ti too but each newer driver he installed, works like shit for him. Many newer drivers causes him troubles for months so he reverted back to 399.07.

 

nVidia has been way too arrogant the past two years or so, so not surprising they doesn't give a shit. If this keeps up, I'm afraid about the future of the consumers GPU's.

I've had issues with drivers for my 1080 causing BSOD and/or crashing games.  There were also the 1060 driver issues a lot ran into.  There was also BSOD drivers like 6 times in a row like 1-2 years ago, iirc.  People just like to shit on AMD only for drivers.


VashTheStampede 4.0:

CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950x | CPU Cooling: EKWB S280 with the EK Supremacy sTR4 RGB Nickel Water Block and Scarlet Red Premix | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut | Mobo: Asrock X399 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GBs (2x16) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX500 500GB M.2-2280 SSD/PNY CS900 240GB SSD/Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM/Toshiba X300 4TB 7200RPM | GPU: Zotac Geforce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Edition | Case: Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition w/Window | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 | Operating System: Windows 10 Pro | Keyboard: Corsair Vengeance K70 with Cherry MX Reds | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB FPS | Headphones:  AKG K7XX Massdrop Editions | Mic: Audio-Technica ATR2500 | Speakers: Mackie MR624 Studio Monitors

 

Prince of Dark Rock:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G(Temp/Upping to a Zen 2 CPU) | CPU Cooling: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryronaut | Mobo: Asrock x470 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 8GBs (2x4) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX200 240GB SSD+Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM | GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6GB 6 GB SSC GAMING  | Case: Fractal Focus G | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: Random HP DVD Drive | Operating System: Windows 10 Home | Keyboard: Gigabyte FORCE K83 with Cherry MX Reds | MouseRazer DeathAdder Elite Destiny 2 Edition Speakers: JBL LSR 305 Studio Monitors(At some point)

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1 hour ago, williamcll said:

Hopefully Global Foundries can figure out how to make 7nm

Nope, they stopped working on that, wich is why 7nm AMD Products come from TSMC right now...

 

Maybe Samsung later.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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3 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

If the rumors for demand of 7nm Vega are correct they might have decided to push back Navi production in order to cater to that demand instead. 

What rumours?  

 

The reason for the lack of supply of Radeon 7 is that AMD would rather sell Vega 20 as instinct cards making way more money.

 

The only reason they launched this is because RTX graphics cards were so expensive it made AMD think- "why not there is enough room for us here to at least show everybody we are capable of high end performance so they don't forget about us until Navi lanuches".

 

Personally I would love  to have Radeon 7. It's near RTX 2080 performance and is way more effecient than last gen Vega 64, and as a person who also uses Linux AMD's graphics cards are a much better fit for me than Nvidia, things work better. So personally I would love to have one if it wasn't priced like a 1080ti from two years ago.

 

But I do recgnize that this is a token entry for AMD just to stay in the game. It's the same Vega architecture with some refinements. Whereas what we hear suggests that in the last few years most of their Engineering resources have been dedicated towards Navi. 

 

Jensen Huang talks a lot of FUD, but he was right about the fact that AMD decided to launch this at the last moment.

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I'm just glad crypto mining died so ppl can buy a graphic cards for gaming. You can find RX580 cards, brand new for way under 200€. At 1080 on high settings they run modern games at around 60fps. Can't argue with that. Good luck finding any GTX 1060 6GB under 210€. Most go for 240€ while not really being any better than RX580 or RX590.

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5 hours ago, Humbug said:

It seems like GPU drivers are unlike any other device drivers. There are no other hardware devices in the world where the IHV has to regularly go in and tweak the drivers to optimize for different software applications. Theoretically if each layer is doing it's job properly (especially with Vulkan/DX12) there should be no need for continious application specific fixes. But it seems like with the complexity of GPU drivers at this point even calling them merely drivers is insufficient...

Ideally software developers would maintain and optimize themselves but somehow they've managed to get away with shifting the work to the IHV instead. It was supposed to change to some degree with low level APIs but I think they might have found a way to keep the status quo because why not get away with doing less work when you're already being overworked on a tight schedule?

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