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AMD Delays Navi to Q4 2019

Orcblood

I just bought two R9 Fury's to upgrade my rigs (second one arrives Monday) - I planned on waiting anyhow...lol.  

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can it really be considered delayed if the only release dates we had were rumour.   It's kinda like saying a nasa launch was delayed because some bloke down the pub said he thought it should have happened the week earlier on his day off.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 hours ago, Orcblood said:

Don't take this as truth but I ,as a software developer, think it's cause when optimizing low level code in the case of drivers, the simplicity of abstraction is given up in place for specific and more complex code. The more unique code there is and the less use of abstraction the more chances that the developer(s) are going to break something. GPU driver developers are told to make things run better for a specific games (usually AAA titles) because the mass market for GPUs cares about high framrates alot and look to these games for performance stats. 

But how is it nVidia has the most stable drivers? I'm speaking for myself so don't take it as an attack against AMD.

I had nVidia 9600M GT, I had GTX780 and then 1080Ti. As far as I can remember, I never had problems with the drivers and if I had, I would simply reset settings or reinstall the same driver and problems are gone. Like I said, I'm only speaking for myself.

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17 minutes ago, mr moose said:

can it really be considered delayed if the only release dates we had were rumour.   It's kinda like saying a nasa launch was delayed because some bloke down the pub said he thought it should have happened the week earlier on his day off.

not the same thing its more like we heard from a guy on a pub that his friend working for a nasa subcontractor heard/knows it should have happened at X date

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26 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

not the same thing its more like we heard from a guy on a pub that his friend working for a nasa subcontractor heard/knows it should have happened at X date

The number of rumours that are wrong from "reputable" tech sources is enough for it to be the same for me.

 

In fact to be quite honest, sometimes I think the man down the pub has a better idea because he isn't conflating what he thinks are important factors, he's just going of when his RDO is.

 

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, AMD planned to release Navi after showing it off at CES.  None of that happened because Navi wasn't ready.  So, we got the Radeon VII workstation/gaming card instead.  The rumors about the other release is most likely a rumor, but that was based on Computex.

So we only have rumour as AMD haven't actually said when they are going to launch it? 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

It was semi-confirmed yet wasn't ready, and then rumor yet nothing directly from AMD backing the second one.  Basically, the rumor for this summer was the one that has nothing from AMD backing it.

so basically no actual date for release, which means it isn't delayed.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, CTR640 said:

But how is it nVidia has the most stable drivers?

They don't that's just bullshit.

And what you're missing is who takes care about whom.

 

In this case the Game Developers take care about nVidia. So the claim that "nvidia has awesome drivers" is just horse shit when everyone makes their software so that it runs on said company. Even if they have total garbage drivers, you woudln't notice it ever.

1 hour ago, CTR640 said:

As far as I can remember, I never had problems with the drivers 

Oh, there were a couple of noticable ones over the time.

For example faulty fan controllers, dying cards and other shit. Like the TressFX stuff that nVidia didn't want to fix on their part, so for you it took like 6 Months to fix that shit.


But people still believe the lie of the "good Driver", when its not correct.

 

You can really prove that on the other side of the Operating system, where nVidia doesn't give a shit about the specifications, driver APIs...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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56 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

They don't that's just bullshit.

And what you're missing is who takes care about whom.

 

In this case the Game Developers take care about nVidia. So the claim that "nvidia has awesome drivers" is just horse shit when everyone makes their software so that it runs on said company. Even if they have total garbage drivers, you woudln't notice it ever.

Oh, there were a couple of noticable ones over the time.

For example faulty fan controllers, dying cards and other shit. Like the TressFX stuff that nVidia didn't want to fix on their part, so for you it took like 6 Months to fix that shit.


But people still believe the lie of the "good Driver", when its not correct.

 

You can really prove that on the other side of the Operating system, where nVidia doesn't give a shit about the specifications, driver APIs...

Yeah, that's why I said I'm speaking for myself as I shared my experience.

A friend told me he has 1080Ti too but each newer driver he installed, works like shit for him. Many newer drivers causes him troubles for months so he reverted back to 399.07.

 

nVidia has been way too arrogant the past two years or so, so not surprising they doesn't give a shit. If this keeps up, I'm afraid about the future of the consumers GPU's.

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25 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

nVidia has been way too arrogant the past two years or so, so not surprising they doesn't give a shit. If this keeps up, I'm afraid about the future of the consumers GPU's.

There's a simple solution for that:

 

Just don't buy them.

 

Simple as that.

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Sad news... but then again, my 7970 can still last me a bit longer. I really just want a new CPU... Zen 2 cannot out soon enough.

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27 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

There's a simple solution for that:

 

Just don't buy them.

 

Simple as that.

I know. If only more people would share the same.

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Hopefully Global Foundries can figure out how to make 7nm

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9 hours ago, yian88 said:

drivers are shit im sick of drivers issues, is this hell ever going to end with some new smart engineering that doesnt require so much GPU driver development? 

If Navi is pushed back from a July release and we are already hearing about it then it is not because of drivers. It would be either due to fab time or some other silicon issue.

 

9 hours ago, yian88 said:

 why cant they reuse code each gpu needs years to mature drivers, ridiculous something is not right in the world of GPU drivers and i dont know what exactly, maybe its the fact that driver devs have to fix shit games on windows, what about small games that dont ever receive driver support they work just fine out of the box why they work but AAA games not?

It seems like GPU drivers are unlike any other device drivers. There are no other hardware devices in the world where the IHV has to regularly go in and tweak the drivers to optimize for different software applications. Theoretically if each layer is doing it's job properly (especially with Vulkan/DX12) there should be no need for continious application specific fixes. But it seems like with the complexity of GPU drivers at this point even calling them merely drivers is insufficient...

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If the rumors for demand of 7nm Vega are correct they might have decided to push back Navi production in order to cater to that demand instead. 

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1 hour ago, williamcll said:

Hopefully Global Foundries can figure out how to make 7nm

Nope, they stopped working on that, wich is why 7nm AMD Products come from TSMC right now...

 

Maybe Samsung later.

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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3 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

If the rumors for demand of 7nm Vega are correct they might have decided to push back Navi production in order to cater to that demand instead. 

What rumours?  

 

The reason for the lack of supply of Radeon 7 is that AMD would rather sell Vega 20 as instinct cards making way more money.

 

The only reason they launched this is because RTX graphics cards were so expensive it made AMD think- "why not there is enough room for us here to at least show everybody we are capable of high end performance so they don't forget about us until Navi lanuches".

 

Personally I would love  to have Radeon 7. It's near RTX 2080 performance and is way more effecient than last gen Vega 64, and as a person who also uses Linux AMD's graphics cards are a much better fit for me than Nvidia, things work better. So personally I would love to have one if it wasn't priced like a 1080ti from two years ago.

 

But I do recgnize that this is a token entry for AMD just to stay in the game. It's the same Vega architecture with some refinements. Whereas what we hear suggests that in the last few years most of their Engineering resources have been dedicated towards Navi. 

 

Jensen Huang talks a lot of FUD, but he was right about the fact that AMD decided to launch this at the last moment.

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I'm just glad crypto mining died so ppl can buy a graphic cards for gaming. You can find RX580 cards, brand new for way under 200€. At 1080 on high settings they run modern games at around 60fps. Can't argue with that. Good luck finding any GTX 1060 6GB under 210€. Most go for 240€ while not really being any better than RX580 or RX590.

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5 hours ago, Humbug said:

It seems like GPU drivers are unlike any other device drivers. There are no other hardware devices in the world where the IHV has to regularly go in and tweak the drivers to optimize for different software applications. Theoretically if each layer is doing it's job properly (especially with Vulkan/DX12) there should be no need for continious application specific fixes. But it seems like with the complexity of GPU drivers at this point even calling them merely drivers is insufficient...

Ideally software developers would maintain and optimize themselves but somehow they've managed to get away with shifting the work to the IHV instead. It was supposed to change to some degree with low level APIs but I think they might have found a way to keep the status quo because why not get away with doing less work when you're already being overworked on a tight schedule?

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1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

Ideally software developers would maintain and optimize themselves but somehow they've managed to get away with shifting the work to the IHV instead. It was supposed to change to some degree with low level APIs but I think they might have found a way to keep the status quo because why not get away with doing less work when you're already being overworked on a tight schedule?

Well the DX12/Vulkan model would have worked if there weren't rather direct counter actors to that in the industry. I'm sure you already know what they are, game engine developers and the optimization assistance given by Nvidia and AMD (mostly Nvidia) and development tools like GameWorks. The theory of giving more direct control to game devs was great, reality is they were given tools that did it for them so same end result as before.

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What ranges are they targeting with Navi though, just mid range replacement (Polaris) or also higher end  (Vega/II) as well. So due to mentioned scalability it seems entire range replacement with lower power consumption and higher performance. 

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14 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

What ranges are they targeting with Navi though, just mid range replacement (Polaris) or also higher end  (Vega/II) as well. So due to mentioned scalability it seems entire range replacement with lower power consumption and higher performance. 

Based on the rumours we have received so far the Navi range contains everything from low end to mid range to high end. But the rumours also say the high end will not be ready until 2020. So the Radeon 7 might have to remain the fastest AMD graphics card for another year...

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2 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Based on the rumours we have received so far the Navi range contains everything from low end to mid range to high end. But the rumours also say the high end will not be ready until 2020. So the Radeon 7 might have to remain the fastest AMD graphics card for another year...

Right, that's what's a bit off to me. I know they won't release something to replace Radeon 7 soon, towards end of the year would make more sense than closer to next gen though. Even though we don't know exactly when that will come. 

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12 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Right, that's what's a bit off to me. I know they won't release something to replace Radeon 7 soon, towards end of the year would make more sense than closer to next gen though. Even though we don't know exactly when that will come. 

If Navi is as good as it's supposed to be, or needs to be, mid range should performance match the Radeon 7.

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19 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If Navi is as good as it's supposed to be, or needs to be, mid range should performance match the Radeon 7.

I mean that would be great indeed. Though I'd expect the so called full fat Navi whatever that is to outperform it decently in general. Oh well we'll see.

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35 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If Navi is as good as it's supposed to be, or needs to be, mid range should performance match the Radeon 7.

i think it will stay at the 2070 performance level maybe a bit more, from looking at vega 20, clocks might be quite good but it wont have enough CUs to reach vega 20 unless the missing vega features are on

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