Babyliss istubble battery replacement Ni-Mh

[grangervoldemort]

Turns out RS sells the Annsman batteries too:

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/batteries/rechargeable-batteries/aaa-rechargeable-batteries/?applied-dimensions=4294867701

 

Any ideas on which would be the best battery to select?

Panasonic ones I would assume would be the best, but they only have a 550mAh tagged one. Yet it sells for much more than the 800mAh never heard of before brands. Does that mean that the Panasonic ones, despite being rated at a lower mAh, will last longer between charges and will have a longer lifespan?

[W-L]

1 minute ago, grangervoldemort said:

-SNIP-

What I wrote just explained the reason for having the tabs on the batteries and what they are used for, I don't know what wasn't clear in that explanation and instructions on how to completed the task. If this is still not making sense I implore you to seek someone that has knowledge in soldering and electronics repair to help you in person to properly repair it. 

 

If you want you can remove those tabs from the batteries it doesn't make a difference, you can solder directly onto the battery ends if needed. 

[grangervoldemort]

10 minutes ago, W-L said:

What I wrote just explained the reason for having the tabs on the batteries and what they are used for, I don't know what wasn't clear in that explanation and instructions on how to completed the task. If this is still not making sense I implore you to seek someone that has knowledge in soldering and electronics repair to help you in person to properly repair it. 

 

If you want you can remove those tabs from the batteries it doesn't make a difference, you can solder directly onto the battery ends if needed. 

Right so then this gives me a wider selection of battery choice. You could have just answered the question. I thought that the battery ends have a different material mix or something and so solder doesn't stick to them and so special meta tabs that do allow solder to stick to them have to be welded on... as someone wrote that they are WELDED on.\

 

EDIT: I have some Panasonic eneloop lite Ni-Mh brand new batteries laying around BUT they are 550mAh/ What do you think? Wouldn't have to spend any money this way....I just suddenly remembered that I have these batteries just now. 
Note they are 'lite' meaning I guess cheapo panasonic ones.

[W-L]

7 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Right so then this gives me a wider selection of battery choice. You could have just answered the question. I thought that the battery ends have a different material mix or something and so solder doesn't stick to them and so special meta tabs that do allow solder to stick to them have to be welded on... as someone wrote that they are WELDED on.\

 

EDIT: I have some Panasonic eneloop lite Ni-Mh brand new batteries laying around BUT they are 550mAh/ What do you think? Wouldn't have to spend any money this way....I just suddenly remembered that I have these batteries just now.

The eneloops should work if you want to give them a try, as said the reason for the tabs are so you don't solder directly onto a battery just make sure if you are going to directly solder onto the end of a battery it is done in short time frames. 

[grangervoldemort]

1 minute ago, W-L said:

The eneloops should work if you want to give them a try, as said the reason for the tabs are so you don't solder directly onto a battery just make sure if you are going to directly solder onto the end of a battery it is done in short time frames. 

My concern with these eneloop batteries is that they are perhaps not designed for a higher power device like this trimmer. I bought them for a cordless phone and the company sent me an extra 2 by mistake and told me to keep them.

They are also 50mAh less than the ones that were there.

Thoughts?

[W-L]

Just now, grangervoldemort said:

My concern with these eneloop batteries is that they are perhaps not designed for a higher power device like this trimmer. I bought them for a cordless phone and the company sent me an extra 2 by mistake and told me to keep them.

They are also 50mAh less than the ones that were there.

Thoughts?

Being a smaller mAh the charge will not last as long, and the eneloop are capable of quite high drain even their regular lineup so it shouldn't have a problem keeping up. 

[grangervoldemort]

10 minutes ago, W-L said:

SNIP

Check this out:

 

Posted Sun Mar 8, 2009 8:59 AM

Well, I just had a scary experience. I was givin a copy of "Mario All Stars" for the Super Nintendo that would not save. Upon opening the cartridge, I was suprised to find that the battery was actually still very strong - 3.2v - but the spot welds on the top that connected the positive terminal to the solder tabs had broken. "I'll just solder this back together, and it'll be fixed" I thought.

Now, I've soldered to batteries plenty of times before, and never had a problem. It normally worked just fine. But not this time. I removed the battery from the board, and roughed up the top of the battery so the solder could sick. I then tried tinning it - but the solder refused to flow. It just balled up. Tried roughing it up more, cleaning it with alcohol, and tinning again. Still no go. It was at this moment that I thought to myself. "You can't overheat batteries - I read that they can explode!". So I put down the soldering iron, retrieved my full face mask, and put it on.

More attempts to solder to the battery were failing, and I tried heating it even more. It was starting to look encouraging - the solder looked like it was about to flow. Then, PFOOOF!!! - the battery exploded. Bits of black battery crud went everywhere, along with the molten solder. I heard a 'plink' as the top of the battery landed on the floor. I stared at the bottom half of the battery on the bench for a minute, in disbelief. I took off my face mask and went to get the vacuum.

I cleaned up the battery crud, and found the top cover of the battery, as well as the battery tab I was trying to solder to it. It never stuck. I was starting to think of other ways to get a battery onto this board when I looked over at my face mask on the bench. It's covered in molten solder drops.

I'm definitely glad I took the time to use the proper safety equipment. Never, ever solder to batteries without wearing a mask. You can always buy another mask for ten bucks at the hardware store. A new face would cost a whole lot more.

-Ian 

[grangervoldemort]

Safety is of great concern. I wonder if this would be any good: https://www.trainshop.co.uk/electrics/10748-wire-glue-conductive-paint.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3oyig5C54AIVL7ftCh3GNgMUEAkYASABEgJiv_D_BwE

[W-L]

24 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Safety is of great concern. I wonder if this would be any good: https://www.trainshop.co.uk/electrics/10748-wire-glue-conductive-paint.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3oyig5C54AIVL7ftCh3GNgMUEAkYASABEgJiv_D_BwE

No that would not substitute a proper solder joint, if done correctly there is of no concern. This is why many batteries come with spot welded tabs for ease of soldering, sounds like his iron was too small and not able to provide enough thermal mass to make a quick joint.

[grangervoldemort]

Just as I suspected. I was right. 

The battery terminals as they are will not accept solder. The solder won't stick (source is research online). 

You have to file the ends of the battery for use solder to stick and to pool. 

 

You said it will work. But it wouldn't without sanding. 

[W-L]

8 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Just as I suspected. I was right. 

The battery terminals as they are will not accept solder. The solder won't stick (source is research online). 

You have to file the ends of the battery for use solder to stick and to pool. 

 

You said it will work. But it wouldn't without sanding. 

That's common practice if you need to sand the end it doesn't mean it's not possible to solder onto them. I never said anything regarding the specifics of it. 

[grangervoldemort]

10 minutes ago, W-L said:

That's common practice if you need to sand the end it doesn't mean it's not possible to solder onto them. I never said anything regarding the specifics of it. 

You should have then. I have never done this before and I want this to serve as a guide for others on how to do this themselves. When people search for iStubble battery replacement, this will be one of the first results hopefully. There is no guide for this. This will be the first.

Anything else I need to do? Any specific type of solder I need to use? I have no idea what kind of solder we have as my dad just gets cheap crap from India, like that soldering iron.

 

Assuming this is in series, if this would fit it would make things so much easier. Sadly this won't fit. It also has a cut out that looks like it will allow the thermistor to sit on the side of it: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6119598/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Batteries-_-Battery_Chargers_And_Battery_Accessories|Battery_Holders_And_Mounts-_-PRODUCT_GROUP&matchtype=&pla-420951887209&s_kwcid=AL!7457!3!243845745808!!!g!420951887209!&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwqqOlJK54AIVKpPtCh1UlQfUEAQYBSABEgIF9PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[W-L]

Just now, grangervoldemort said:

You should have then. I have never done this before and I want this to serve as a guide for others on how to do this themselves. When people search for iStubble battery replacement, this will be one of the first results hopefully. There is no guide for this. This will be the first.

Anything else I need to do? Any specific type of solder I need to use? I have no idea what kind of solder we have as my dad just gets cheap crap from India, like that soldering iron.

Honestly I would recommend you to do some research and read up on soldering basics and information, there is only so much explaining that one can do unless we were to go into an in depth analysis of every single process. This information is widely available and we've made it pretty much step by step on how to replace the batteries including different ways and solutions. You need to go and physically try and see what works and doesn't work, we can help you troubleshoot problems you have during all this process.  

 

Here are some videos that will explain everything you need to know. 

 

[grangervoldemort]

16 hours ago, W-L said:

 

First video was awesome. So retro and at explained at a good pace; not too fast. 

To the point and explained very well. No additional garbage in the video as almost every video on you tube has.
Will watch the second now. 

The only thing is I cannot change the tip of the solder as there are no other tips and I think it's a fixed tips soldering iron. 

I think the yellowing to the board when I removed the batteries was caused by overheating. It was difficult to do with only one person. Two people could not have removed the battery unless the PCB could be held mid air. Then one person could pull the batteries while the other applies heat to each solder joint in quick succession to allow removal of the battery with minimal heat duration.

Instead I had to pull the battery with one hand and apply the soldering iron (which as you can see is a little too big for this job) to the joint. It didn't work the first few times and as the two batteries are linked and glued together and to the PCB, it meant that a slow rocking method had to be used.

 

It is important to note that it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove the batteries without first removing the from the PCB as I did with the pliers. They are stuck VERY well to the board and require significant force to get off the board. 

 

So for anyone reading this trying to fix your own trimmer, take the batteries off the board first. The metal tabs bend so don't worry about that. Then when the batteries are held onto the PCB by only the metal tabs, you can desolder the tabs and pull the batteries off. Also to note, both batteries are glued to each other.

 

Apply heat while pulling one joint. Do the same on the other joint. Back to the first joint. Then back to the other. 

This requires experience and the right tools to be able to eye a job and know what tip size to use, duration and method. I have none of those. The soldering iron is as you can see a dangerous piece of garbage. The plastic is thin and brittle and fragile. The bit where you hold your fingers on gets very hot.

EDIT: Second video only 1:45 in and its been edited too fast and she talks too fast. Really pisses me off that people edit shit like everyone has ADHD. Ahhhhhh she puts text on the screen that has additional info and it cannot be read in the time it is shown because she is talking so we have to listen to what she says which makes it impossible to also read the text at the same time. Freaking retarded editing. 

[grangervoldemort]

So turns out that using my existing batteries won't work:

 

http://www.technfun.com/pages/article.php?id=22

Soldering to cells is not like soldering to wires, or to a circuit board. 

Inexperienced amateur solderers are often frustrated when they try to solder to cells because the solder doesn't stick, or it looks like it does but then gives up as soon as the wire is tugged. They then usually assume that the cell terminals are treated with some anti-solder compound or something and give up.

The truth is much simpler: it has nothing to do with special treatment of the metal - it's just a question of heat.

Solder sticks to metal when the temperature of the metal gets high enough. This process isn't helped by the fact that most metals are rather good heat conductors, and will try their best to spread the heat and get it away from the area you want to solder to.

This isn't usually a problem with normal electronics work, because thin wires and circuit terminals have little mass to spread the heat to, so even a cheap, weedy iron will heat them to soldering temperature with ease.

But cells have a lot more metal than a wire, and so are a lot harder to heat properly.

For this reason, the $10 soldering irons that most budding tinkerers use aren't suitable to the task. You can do it with them, but you run the very real risk of overheating the cells.

Overheated cells don't instantly die. Overheat them slightly and you'll just cook some of the electrolyte in them; they'll lose some capacity, and gain some internal resistance, and you can't expect them to last as long as pristine cells, but by and large they'll still work (note that this isn't necessarily true for Lithium-ion cells; more on this later).

But if you want to do it properly, a temperature-controlled soldering station is necessary.

 

-END - 

 

On another note I just checked ebay to see if others are selling this trimmer. Others are selling this trimmer with a better looking front silver bit (it is just painted silver) as mine is worn out. There aren't many there. Lowest priced one is £10 and it has 1 day left and 0 bids. 

Point being I don't think anyone wants to buy a used beard trimmer. So this fix seems to be pointless other than as a spare trimmer should my new lithium ion powered one fail. 

But I don't see the point in buying new batteries,install them only for the trimmer to then sit in a drawer possibly never being used again. and even it is needed in say a year or two if the lithium one fails, by then the batteries in this one will likely be useless after sitting around for so long. Am I right in thinking this?

[grangervoldemort]

Does a standard non adjustable soldering iron like the one I have ever stop getting hot? Or does it just get hotter and hotter and hotter? 

[mariushm]

Those shitty cheap soldering irons are basically just a mains connected heating element, the element will keep radiating heat for ever as long as the voltage is the same.

The iron should reach a temperature and then hover around that temperature, I'd say at around 300-450 degrees Celsius.

If you use them for a long time, the heat from the metal can be absorbed in the plastic and that plastic can weaken or break as it can't handle such temperatures for long periods of time.

If you want, think of those soldering irons as a hair dryer without a fan inside... the hair dryer is basically a heating element wrapped around a tube inside, and a fan blows air through the tube ...

 

Those irons are bad because the heat reservoir is very small (you saw the Pace tutorial video so you should know what heat reservoir means), so as soon as you put the tip on some metal part to solder, the temperature at the tip drops because the metal bit takes the heat and cools the tip. At that point, you have to wait a few seconds for the iron to raise its temperature again ... so that can result in bad soldering... if you saw the Pace video remember how it said typically, you should not have to hold the iron in contact with anything for more than 2 seconds.  Such cheap irons make it practically impossible to solder anything with a good quality by holding the tip for less than 2 seconds.

 

And this is one of the reasons I recommended buying batteries with those metal bits spot welded to the ends - those metal bits can take flux and solder much easier than the stainless steel ends of batteries (or whatever metal those ends are made of) and the metal bits also act as a heatsink so that when you solder a wire to those bits or when you solder the terminal of that metal bit into the circuit board, the internals of the battery don't heat so much.

 

 

[grangervoldemort]

I think that my previous idea of a battery pack is the best idea.

I thought it might be too big. That's why I tossed out that idea. But I just realised there is a spec sheet provided on the website: https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/0d09/0900766b80d093fc.pdf

 

You can see the length is maximum 46.5mm.

 

It's only 2mm longer than a standard AAA battery: A triple-A battery is a single cell and measures 10.5 mm (0.41 in) in diameter and 44.5 mm (1.75 in) in length, including the positive terminal button, which is a minimum 0.8 mm (0.031 in).

 

Further more it appears from that diagram that the battery is connected in series.

 

It's also very cheap, only £4.04 delivered.

 

[mariushm]

Yes, that will work for you.

[grangervoldemort]

2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yes, that will work for you.

Can you please confirm having looked at the diagram if they are in series?

 

Here is the battery itself: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/6660406/

It's spec sheet: https://docs-emea.rs-online.com/webdocs/0d09/0900766b80d093fc.pdf

 

Thank you. Finally we will get there.

[mariushm]

They're in series. It says 2.4v so it can only be in series ... a single NiMH battery has a voltage of 1.2v

Buy that, cut the wires  leaving just enough length to reach the holes in the circuit board, then solder red wire to plus, and black wire to minus on the circuit board.

 

The longer length of the battery in datasheet is probably due to the added diameter of the wires soldered to the metal tabs on the end of the battery, or maybe they also count the thickness of the metal plates spot welded to the ends of the batteries in that length, or the extra thickness added by that sleeve holding the two batteries together.

Don't worry about it, you have room on your board.

[grangervoldemort]

47 minutes ago, mariushm said:

SNIP

Thanks. Any idea how long a unused Ni-Mh battery is good for? I'm probably just going to put this trimmer into a drawer for the day the lithium ion babyliss trimmer I have dies on me. I doubt I will be able to replace the battery in that.

 

Also any idea on the quality of the batty pack I provided a link to? 

 

EDIT: I ordered the battery. Time will tell.

 

I will post photos and write about the installation process. I want to help anyone else with this beard trimmer. Fuc* these companies for not even providing a paid service to replace the batteries causing you to throw the device into likely landfill damaging our environment and then having to buy a new one. 

[grangervoldemort]

Got the battery, fitted it, it works, letting it charge for 16 hours as the trimmer originally required the nimh batteries to be charged for 16 hours before use. 

 

But now it won't close. Any ideas? 

 

Took a fair few photos which I'll upload tomorrow. 

 

Uploading two because I think it might be because of the wires on the side and or I stuck the battery on a little sideways by accident. 

Or perhaps the glue thickness is too much. 

I'll attach a photo of roughly how much I used. My first attempt wasn't going to work well because of proximity of components on underside of the board. I was originally going to solder the wires to the underside, but realised on the negative side there are solder joints and a component that are too close. 

I had already glued the battery on. 

Thankfully it comes off fairly easily without damage to the board. 

I removed the glue that you see in the photo, then reapplied new glue after soldering the battery to the top of the board. 

 

Also attached is the gap that remains. 

 

Also the charger makes a beeping noise and so do the batteries. That sound wasn't there before. 

Any ideas? I filmed it, not sure if I can upload videos here?