Babyliss istubble battery replacement Ni-Mh

[mariushm]

You can buy batteries with those metal bits spot welded to them, here's an example:  https://uk.farnell.com/ansmann/2311-3003/rechargeable-battery-nimh-1-2v/dp/2563892

They're also available on their Farnell CPC site  (with cheaper or free shipping for UK buyers) : https://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2311-3003/battery-industrial-aaa-800mah/dp/BT05476?ost=2311-3003&ddkey=https%3Aen-CPC%2FCPC_United_Kingdom%2Fsearch

 

Those metal tabs make it easy to solder the batteries together, since normally it's not a good idea to solder directly to the terminals of a battery...

 

I would basically get a couple of leads from a resistor or capacitor, solder it to the battery metal tabs and then solder it to the circuit board. Use a tiny bit of solder to solder two metal tabs together to link the batteries in series.

Use hot glue or double sided adhesive tape to make sure the batteries stick to the circuit board.

[W-L]

9 hours ago, grangervoldemort said:

to remove the metal tabs do I really need to remove the solder? Won't it be enough to remove the metal tabs by  cutting the tabs before the pcb but leaving a little leg to pull out later with pliers and heating the solder? 

That will also work, same goal at the end of the day, just need to remove the tabs for the new wire that will go into place. 

[grangervoldemort]

22 hours ago, mariushm said:

You can buy batteries with those metal bits spot welded to them, here's an example:  https://uk.farnell.com/ansmann/2311-3003/rechargeable-battery-nimh-1-2v/dp/2563892

They're also available on their Farnell CPC site  (with cheaper or free shipping for UK buyers) : https://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2311-3003/battery-industrial-aaa-800mah/dp/BT05476?ost=2311-3003&ddkey=https%3Aen-CPC%2FCPC_United_Kingdom%2Fsearch

 

Those metal tabs make it easy to solder the batteries together, since normally it's not a good idea to solder directly to the terminals of a battery...

 

I would basically get a couple of leads from a resistor or capacitor, solder it to the battery metal tabs and then solder it to the circuit board. Use a tiny bit of solder to solder two metal tabs together to link the batteries in series.

Use hot glue or double sided adhesive tape to make sure the batteries stick to the circuit board.

None of those batteries are 2.4v. Check the spec of the batteries in my trimmer.

 

Not sure what you mean about resistor leads.

[mariushm]

Your batteries are NOT 2.4v . The 2.4v refers to the BATTERY PACK - note that you have only ONE sticker, on one of the batteries. The sticker says the "battery pack" has a voltage of 2.4v and 600mAh capacity. Individually, each battery (you have two in the device) has an operating voltage of 1.2v and 600mAh of capacity.

 

The batteries I suggested to you are 1.2v each and 800mAh so when you put them in series , you get your battery pack with 2.4v voltage and you get more capacity, 800mAh, which means the battery will hold a bigger charge.

 

The batteries  I suggested look like this:

 

 

Top side is + , bottom side is negative.

 

Your batteries are connected like this:

 

 

So you take two batteries I suggested, flip one of the batteries so that it's + is to the side of the negative of the other one, and you put one metal clip on top of the other and solder them to create the connection between the two metal clips :

 

You link the batteries at one end and you have the 2.4v battery pack - two batteries in series give you 2x the voltage, same capacity , two in parallel give you save voltage, double the capacity.

 

 

 

So now you battery has a plus and a minus and metal tabs there... but those metal tabs have to go in the pcb in that B+ and on the right side it's probably a B- hole.

So the easiest solution is probably to just cut the tabs to size (just small squares like in the picture above) and then use some kind of lead / wire to create the connection between the metal tab and the circuit board.

The leads of a regular resistor or capacitor are normally the perfect diameter and length, you could solder end of such a lead to the metal tab of the battery and then insert it into the circuit board hole and solder the wire to the board.

It doesn't have to be a lead from a resistor or capacitor, I just mentioned something convenient and easy to find. You could use ANY wire, for example cut a chunk off a solid core ethernet cable and you have 8 wires inside the ethernet cable you could use.

It's just a piece of wire at the end of the day.

 

When you're done, you can gently bend that thermal sensor / diode so that it touches your new battery and then apply a bit of glue to keep that diode stuck to the battery - that's most likely only used by the device to cut charging if the batteries overheat during charging.

It's also there in case a battery dies shorted or ends up with high resistance... imagine the scenario where such a battery overheats by a lot, and the plastic case of the device would start melting and it would look bad... some stupid people may ask for refunds, or claim the whole products must be recalled and so on... so rather than risk that, they add the thermal sensor which cuts off power completely preventing that... and you end up with a dead product.

It's basically a fail safe.

 

 

 

 

[grangervoldemort]

5 hours ago, mariushm said:

SNIPPITY

 

 

 

You are awesome. That was a great reply.

 

I didn't know that the 2.4v refers to BOTH batteries. 

 

Is a higher mAh rating ok? Can it still charge it properly and for fail safes to work properly still?
 

But I don't understand the most important part. I totally got the butt end of the battery pack needs to have those 2 pieces connected with solder.
What I don't get is this resistor leg thing.

Once I have removed the existing batteries and the leg I will be left with that hole with a little solder in it.

What do I do then? The new batteries come with what look like very long metal tabs which won't fit into the hole. 

I think you want me to connect a resistor leg (or any small component like that) to the metal tab on each battery having trimmed it so it's a square shape like the original metal tab that is welded on.

But how am I going to be able to connect the resistor leg to the tab?

 

Oh and in your drawing you drew two positives for the batteries on one end

 

Is it not possible to get batteries with the metal tabs from reputable manufacturers? Or are the ones you linked me to reputable?

 

Thank you

[grangervoldemort]

UPDATE

I have now removed the battery. It wasn't easy and I am scared I may have damaged the PCB. 

 

Please read all of this and tell me if the PCB is damaged and can no longer be used. Thank you

 

First I had to remove the board from the motor which could not be removed that is attached to the LCD PCB by removing the red and black wires using a soldering iron.
This was a 2 person process. One person had to carefully use a long nosed small plier to pull on the wire while I applied heat to the solder joint. I had to be careful not to touch any of the plastic (which is harder than it seems. This device is small and has tiny spaces):

 

Next I used a Stanley Retractable Blade Knife to cut the thermistor loose. This was MUCH harder than expected.  

 

Same for the other side. Keep the blade angled toward the battery. Its ok to damage the battery skin as the batteries will be thrown away. You do not want to damage the components. Don't use too much force. Go easy at first to get a feel for how much force is needed.

 

[grangervoldemort]

Next was getting the batteries off the PCB. There is no way to cut the batteries loose. Either you need a solution that destroys only that material they have used to stick this down that you can spray on that will not damage anything else (if such a thing exists) or you will need to pull the batteries away from the PCB as I did.

 

I had to use 2 pliers.

One to hold onto the PCB and the other to hold the battery. At first I tried using my finger to push the battery but it was too hard. 

The PCB flexes/bends when doing this.

I had to pull/push HARD. I mean HARD. REAL HARD. 

 

 

>> Here you can see the damage to the PCB that concerns me.
Will this trimmer still work with new batteries considering that PCB looks damaged? Please let me know (I haven't bought the batteries yet as I wanted to see if I could remove the batteries first).

 

All three parts laid out so you can see why I had to remove the wires from the other motor:

 

>> I am also concerned that I bent/flexed the PCB too much. What do you think? Is this still going to work?

 

>> The white bits where I removed the battery metal tabs that were soldered onto the board from have gone a little yellow. 

Should I be concerned about this?

 

For anyone interested to see the height/length of the metal tabs on the batteries here they are:


These are the batteries. Note where I had to use pliers the white label on the bin symbol is a little damaged (these batteries will be disposed of (correctly) anyway:

 

The ghetto ass soldering iron my dad bought from India that looks VERY unsafe that I had to use:

 

- END OF POST - 

[mariushm]

You use a soldering iron on the other side of the circuit board, on the bit of solder that keeps the positive and negative tabs connected to the circuit board. 

When the solder melts, you pull the battery out and remove it from the circuit board.

 

If needed you can add a bit of solder.

 

You can do it fairly easily. In the last picture ....

 

Hold with two-three fingers of your left hand the circuit board and the end of the battery, add a flathead screwdriver and slide it right near the positive tab, now bring the hot soldering iron over the solder that keeps the battery tab soldered to the circuit board.

Heat the soldering blob and as it's hot, gently press on the flathead screwdriver using it as a level to lift the battery and the metal tab from the hole.

[grangervoldemort]

2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Snip

Hang on I am still uploading. Not done yet. 20MB size limit means multiple posts. Sorry about that.

[grangervoldemort]

14 hours ago, mariushm said:

SNIP

Please read the now finished battery removal posts. Thank you

[W-L]

21 hours ago, grangervoldemort said:

Hang on I am still uploading. Not done yet. 20MB size limit means multiple posts. Sorry about that.

6 hours ago, grangervoldemort said:

Please read the now finished battery removal posts. Thank you

That still looks ok a little scratched but nothing that looks like it is shorted over. I'd say it's ready for a test with the new battery, 

 

[grangervoldemort]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

That still looks ok a little scratched but nothing that looks like it is shorted over. I'd say it's ready for a test with the new battery, 

 

What is the blue thing that the pliers have pressed into on the backside of the PCB where you can now see metal?
It seems like the light blue things carry electricity while the dark blue is the PCB painted over. 

Surely that damage to the light blue thing at the bottom of the PCB in this photo is going to cause issues?
I have yet to order the battery. Still need questions from previous post answered that no one answered.

 

Thank you

[W-L]

1 minute ago, grangervoldemort said:

What is the blue thing that the pliers have pressed into on the backside of the PCB where you can now see metal?
It seems like the light blue things carry electricity while the dark blue is the PCB painted over. 

Surely that damage to the light blue thing at the bottom of the PCB in this photo is going to cause issues?
I have yet to order the battery. Still need questions from previous post answered that no one answered.

 

Thank you

Won't be an issue from what I see, some of the epoxy coating got scrapped off but nothing of the PCB itself looks damaged. All you would need to do now is to solder the positive and negative lead of the NIMH replacement battery to the two pads respectively and test. Before closing it up of course you will want to stick the battery back down including the thermistor and what looks to be a large resistor. 

[grangervoldemort]

6 minutes ago, W-L said:

Won't be an issue from what I see, some of the epoxy coating got scrapped off but nothing of the PCB itself looks damaged. All you would need to do now is to solder the positive and negative lead of the NIMH replacement battery to the two pads respectively and test. Before closing it up of course you will want to stick the battery back down including the thermistor and what looks to be a large resistor. 

Will this battery be ok. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/aaa-rechargeable-batteries/6170789/
Note it is 1000mAh whereas the ones inside right now are 600mAh.
 

"Is a higher mAh rating ok? Can it still charge it properly and for fail safes to work properly still?
 

But I don't understand the most important part. I totally got the butt end of the battery pack needs to have those 2 pieces connected with solder.
What I don't get is this resistor leg thing.

Once I have removed the existing batteries and the leg I will be left with that hole with a little solder in it.

What do I do then? The new batteries come with what look like very long metal tabs which won't fit into the hole. 

I think you want me to connect a resistor leg (or any small component like that) to the metal tab on each battery having trimmed it so it's a square shape like the original metal tab that is welded on.

But how am I going to be able to connect the resistor leg to the tab?"

 

Why do the batteries need to be tagged if I am going to be soldering onto the metal tag anyway meaning heat is still going to go from the soldering iron to he battery? Does solder not stick to battery terminals (if that is what they are called).

 

How should I stick the battery to the board? I don't want to stick them down as much as they were in case I need to remove them for whatever reason, and I'm scared a hot glue gun will be of equal or more strength to what was there.

[mariushm]

The traces on the circuit board are made of copper, so it's basically a thin layer of copper over fiber glass.

Everything is covered with a thin layer of laquer / paint which is blueish in color, so the layer insulates the copper and prevents it from oxidizing or from stuff making contact between two separate metal parts and causing short circuits or other problems.

You just scratched the layer, removing that insulation... if you're really paranoid, you can grab some scotch tape or electrical tape and put a layer over the scratches.  But it's probably gonna be just fine like that.

 

The large resistor is actually a fuse, if the batteries die for some reason or the circuit after the batteries gets broken somehow that results in the device pulling a lot of power from the DC adapter, the fuse would break interrupting the circuit.

For example, let's say battery dies shorted, so the dc adapter keeps pumping energy trying to charge the battery, and battery overheats and melts plastic and does other bad things ... well, that amount of current would break the fuse and disaster averted.

 

edit: yes, the battery you linked to would work, but I'm not sure it's worth spending so much, when the 800mAh versions are probably more than suitable. You're gonna charge it often anyway, so 800mAh is already around 30% more than the default batteries.

 

[W-L]

3 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

-SNIP-

Yes the higher mAh shouldn't be a problem but will take longer to reach full charge, to get the 2.4V total you would connect them in series and on the other end that attached to the PCB you will need to just solder it down onto the pads. It doesn't necessarily need to go through the PCB, while that is a better connection just having the tabs sit on top of the pads and soldered into place is acceptable. Another option as mentioned is to just use a small bodge wire to connect the new battery down to the PCB. 

 

Use judgement and apply an amount of hot glue that will hold it in place but not be so difficult to remove if something doesn't work or needs to be reconfigured. If done correctly which should be pretty straight forward, I can't see why it wouldn't work. 

 

 

[grangervoldemort]

You're all still missing questions. I appreciate the help.

Please go back and re-read my last post and answer the missing questions please.

Thank you

[W-L]

1 minute ago, grangervoldemort said:

-SNIP-

What is it that you are hesitant about exactly, everything we've explained goes through the necessary steps to install and test the new battery. Everything looks fine from the photos and we see no issues with proceeding. 

[grangervoldemort]

7 minutes ago, W-L said:

Use judgement and apply an amount of hot glue that will hold it in place but not be so difficult to remove if something doesn't work or needs to be reconfigured. If done correctly which should be pretty straight forward, I can't see why it wouldn't work. 

Will little square patches of double sided sticky tape work? Or will that lose it's stickiness over time?

[grangervoldemort]

Just now, W-L said:

What is it that you are hesitant about exactly, everything we've explained goes through the necessary steps to install and test the new battery. Everything looks fine from the photos and we see no issues with proceeding. 

Look at the tags on the new battery. They will not fit through the hole nor will their orientation allow me to anyway.

 

But I don't understand the most important part. I totally got the butt end of the battery pack needs to have those 2 pieces connected with solder.
What I don't get is this resistor leg thing.

Once I have removed the existing batteries and the leg I will be left with that hole with a little solder in it.

What do I do then? The new batteries come with what look like very long metal tabs which won't fit into the hole. 

I think you want me to connect a resistor leg (or any small component like that) to the metal tab on each battery having trimmed it so it's a square shape like the original metal tab that is welded on.

But how am I going to be able to connect the resistor leg to the tab?"

[grangervoldemort]

https://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2311-3003/battery-industrial-aaa-800mah/dp/BT05476 cost less than https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/5046219/

BUT cpc charge a 'handling fee' of £3.50, so it's cheaper to get them from the other site (RS) BUT looking at the batteries it looks like the RS ones have a longer mipple on the positive side than the cpc one.

Any thoughts.

[W-L]

2 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Will little square patches of double sided sticky tape work? Or will that lose it's stickiness over time?

2 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

-SNIP-

That will work, it won't get overly hot to the point of melting the tape.

 

We already went over this but as said you don't need to put the tabs through the holes in the PCB, you just need to make a solder connection from the battery to the board, either by cutting and shaping the tab or using a short bodge wire to make the electrical connection. All of this can be soldered including the wire to the tab. This is all basic soldering and wiring, if you really don't know how to do it I would suggest to ask someone to give you a hand in person to help you make those connections given a simple diagram. 

 

5 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

https://cpc.farnell.com/ansmann/2311-3003/battery-industrial-aaa-800mah/dp/BT05476 cost less than https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/5046219/

BUT cpc charge a 'handling fee' of £3.50, so it's cheaper to get them from the other site (RS) BUT looking at the batteries it looks like the RS ones have a longer mipple on the positive side than the cpc one.

Any thoughts.

It doesn't matter as we are not concerned with that, only thing we care about is it having some tabs to make the connections easier. 

[grangervoldemort]

 

Quote

We already went over this but as said you don't need to put the tabs through the holes in the PCB, you just need to make a solder connection from the battery to the board, either by cutting and shaping the tab or using a short bodge wire to make the electrical connection. All of this can be soldered including the wire to the tab. This is all basic soldering and wiring, if you really don't know how to do it I would suggest to ask someone to give you a hand in person to help you make those connections given a simple diagram. 

No you are still missing what I asked. Not sure how you missed it.

 

Why do the batteries need to be tagged (Tagged means the metal tabs)?
I'm assuming solder sticks to those metal tabs BUT not to the normal ends of battery ends? I'm guessing here.

 

If I am going to be soldering onto the metal tag anyway meaning heat is still going to go from the soldering iron to he battery? Does solder not stick to battery terminals (if that is what they are called).

The REAR of the batteries where the tabs are going to be soldered to EACH OTHER cause the orientation of the front tabs that need to be soldered to, to not line up at all with the holes. Instead the tabs on the batteries from RS would all line up in the same orientation. That means they cannot be shaped by filing and or cutting.

It also means they have to be trimmed down into little squares and my concern is that solder will not stick to the tabs and that the heat from the soldering iron will damage the battery because there is no longer a lengthier piece metal tab to take the heat.

 

Quote

 

It doesn't matter as we are not concerned with that, only thing we care about is it having some tabs to make the connections easier. 

But it does matter? There is limited space for the length of the batteries. I doubt longer batteries will fit.

How do tabs make the connections easier to do?

[W-L]

8 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

-SNIP-

They put tabs on them for ease of soldering cause you don't want to be putting a hot iron on the end of a battery for long periods of time to try and heat it up for solder to stick. The tabs just makes that process easier since it's more isolated from the battery itself acting as a heatsink. With a large enough iron and tip you can solder directly onto the ends of batteries with no tabs but don't linger there for long periods of time.

 

On the PCB end you would be best to just use a short piece of wire to bridge from the PCB over to the battery and not use the welded tabs that are already attached to the battery. That will be simpler to wire up and not have to worry about trimming or shaping the metal tabs that are already there.

[grangervoldemort]

4 minutes ago, W-L said:

They put tabs on them for ease of soldering cause you don't want to be putting a hot iron on the end of a battery for long periods of time to try and heat it up for solder to stick. The tabs just makes that process easier since it's more isolated from the battery itself acting as a heatsink. With a large enough iron and tip you can solder directly onto the ends of batteries with no tabs but don't linger there for long periods of time.

 

THIS IS MY POINT. I JUST wrote that. 

"

The REAR of the batteries where the tabs are going to be soldered to EACH OTHER cause the orientation of the front tabs that need to be soldered to, to not line up at all with the holes. Instead the tabs on the batteries from RS would all line up in the same orientation. That means they cannot be shaped by filing and or cutting.

It also means they have to be trimmed down into little squares and my concern is that solder will not stick to the tabs and that the heat from the soldering iron will damage the battery because there is no longer a lengthier piece metal tab to take the heat."

Do you not see? The metal tabs have to be trimmed down till they are tiny squares, meaning they will NOT act as a heatsink because there is no extra metal to act as a heatsink. It will only be the metal that is stuck onto the battery... a small square piece will be left.

 

You still didn't answer this either: 

 

"Why do the batteries need to be tagged ones and not untagged (Tagged means the metal tabs)?
I'm assuming solder sticks to those metal tabs BUT not to the normal ends of battery ends? I'm guessing here."

Quote

On the PCB end you would be best to just use a short piece of wire to bridge from the PCB over to the battery and not use the welded tabs that are already attached to the battery. That will be simpler to wire up and not have to worry about trimming or shaping the metal tabs that are already there.

The metal tabs on the end where they go into the PCB HAVE to be trimmed. I just told you why in my previous post. ORIENTATION.