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Taf the Ghost

AMD Radeon VII Benchmark/Launch Mega Thread

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9 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, its not that they are unable, its that people wouldn't buy the higher end AMD Card anyway as most "Gamers" only buy nVidia for no reason.

 

YOu see that here in this Forum all the time, where people rather buy a shitty 3GiB 1060 instead of an 8GiB RX470 or 570.

Don't forget about all the people buying the gtx 1050tis instead of rx 570s for gaming $140. There's a lot of that as well. Ridiculous...


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8 hours ago, Lathlaer said:

They could've accomplished that much with this card if they halfed the RAM and dropped the price by 150-200 USD. But no, instead of using the opening NVIDIA gave them by making their GPU's more expensive due to RTX, they decided to match the price in order to fulfil some kind of weird fetish with 16GB HBM2 memory

As many others have already stated, Vega was bandwidth starved. They needed 1TB/s Bandwidth and the only way to do that was with 4 HBM stacks. AMD knew the payback of re-engineering the GPU with less memory would yield less profit than just selling the reject MI50s with a diffrent cooler. That's why there wasn't a creative memory solution and why Radeon VII supply is so small.


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Looks like the card performed right about where I expected it to, going back and forth with a 2080. I'm left wondering though since some reviewers are getting different numbers in the same games. I guess it's down to a driver issue like most of the other problems with this card, but it's weird how it can change performance numbers just because of a different system.

 

Also Tech YES City has another weird issue with the card not booting sometimes if it's in the PCIe slot all the way at startup. I shit you not, that's apparently a thing that can happen...

I wish AMD had waited a bit more to launch this card, but I think they were trying to get rid of this inventory of cards the had built up before they launch Navi. Maybe AMD wasn't expecting this card to sell that well at all.


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11 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, its not that they are unable, its that people wouldn't buy the higher end AMD Card anyway as most "Gamers" only buy nVidia for no reason.

 

YOu see that here in this Forum all the time, where people rather buy a shitty 3GiB 1060 instead of an 8GiB RX470 or 570.

You mean yes? your reason is similar to Buildzoid and i agreed. 


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2 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

You mean yes? your reason is similar to Buildzoid and i agreed. 

The big OC'ers would buy them if they were just that little bit better in benchmark scores (not games, they benchmark better than game already anyway) and could actually OC. If they would be unable to top the chart with one it's not getting purchased.

 

The AMD cards are actually highly appealing to them, no strict power limits or extremely easy to remove and the now standard over the top VRMs.

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5 hours ago, ATFink said:

Don't forget about all the people buying the gtx 1050tis instead of rx 570s for gaming $140. There's a lot of that as well. Ridiculous...

don't forget the 1050ti was out for a year before the 570 and retail prices for the 570 have been inflated more than the 1050ti in 2017.   It is logical that the 1050ti would have sold more under those conditions.


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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

don't forget the 1050ti was out for a year before the 570 and retail prices for the 570 have been inflated more than the 1050ti in 2017.   It is logical that the 1050ti would have sold more under those conditions.

the 470 was still a better buy before and it didnt sell as well

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3 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

the 470 was still a better buy before and it didnt sell as well

Wasn't that also at an inflated price due to mining/low stocks?


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Wasn't that also at an inflated price due to mining/low stocks?

not always only at the end, before that it was obvious which was selling like hot cup cakes 

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35 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

not always only at the end, before that it was obvious which was selling like hot cup cakes 

Given the 470 was released 2 months before the 1050ti and the shortages started the following year I can't imagine there'd being much more than 4-5 months where the 470 was the better option.  It's not like now the mining boom has died almost completely that you'd be a fucking moron to get a 1050ti when the 570 is the same price.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
37 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

not always only at the end, before that it was obvious which was selling like hot cup cakes 

The RX400 series drivers weren't really in great shape for about 6 months, but the early prices were higher than MSRP for a while. Might have been an early part of the mining boom before it kicked into a bubble that drove it. ETH mining had already started to get going by then.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Given the 470 was released 2 months before the 1050ti and the shortages started the following year I can't imagine there'd being much more than 4-5 months where the 470 was the better option.  It's not like now the mining boom has died almost completely that you'd be a fucking moron to get a 1050ti when the 570 is the same price.

AMD also has cut prices pretty far, recently. GDDR5 getting cheaper and their costs on 14nm going down certainly helps in that regard.

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's not like now the mining boom has died almost completely that you'd be a fucking moron to get a 1050ti when the 570 is the same price.

Brand loyalty was stronger before Ryzen. I'll admit I made some stupid decisions several years back, going with Nvidia over AMD just because I'd heard bad stuff about AMD. Public perception means a lot more when you don't understand the details yourself.


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1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

Brand loyalty was stronger before Ryzen. I'll admit I made some stupid decisions several years back, going with Nvidia over AMD just because I'd heard bad stuff about AMD. Public perception means a lot more when you don't understand the details yourself.

I get that, I'm simply pointing out that any perception of an over adoption of the 1050 over the 570 has other effectors that make the decision legitimate. Not every purchase was brand loyalty driven when the 1050 did provide a cheaper option for a while there.   


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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9 hours ago, ATFink said:

 Radeon VII is worse than a $700 rtx 2080 (until drivers are fixed; then some people will leverage the FP64 compute capability). Even after driver fixes if the prices are similar the rtx 2080 will still be better for everyone not utilizing FP64.

 

except the gimped the 16Tflops of FP64 from the actual compute card the VII is based on down to only 1.6Tflops on this card making it basically useless for double precision floating point compute.


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5 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

except the gimped the 16Tflops of FP64 from the actual compute card the VII is based on down to only 1.6Tflops on this card making it basically useless for double precision floating point compute.

3.5TFLOPS actually. 1/4


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10 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

except the gimped the 16Tflops of FP64 from the actual compute card the VII is based on down to only 1.6Tflops on this card making it basically useless for double precision floating point compute.

The MI50 it's based off is 6.7TFLOPs FP64 so 1/2 rate of FP32. The Radeon VII is 3.46 TFLOPs FP64 so 1/4 rate FP32. Put another way the Radeon VII is half the FP64 performance for the MI50.

 

None of the figures you mentioned are actually correct.

 

An RTX 2080 for comparison is 0.3 TFLOPS FP64, or put another way... utterly useless and not worth considering as a valid option for FP64. Don't worry though a Titan RTX can surely fix that.... 0.5 TFLOPs FP64.... nope.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The MI50 it's based off is 6.7TFLOPs FP64 so 1/2 rate of FP32. The Radeon VII is 3.46 TFLOPs FP64 so 1/4 rate FP32. Put another way the Radeon VII is half the FP64 performance for the MI50.

 

None of the figures you mentioned are actually correct.

 

An RTX 2080 for comparison is 0.3 TFLOPS FP64, or put another way... utterly useless and not worth considering as a valid option for FP64.

Science Department King Radeon VII.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Science Department King Radeon VII.

if those science departments aren't nvidia departments, mine is, such a sad thing to see

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6 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

your reason is similar to Buildzoid and i agreed. 

No, its completely different because one is the Corporate side, wich is what Bullzoid was talking about.

I was talking about the Consumer side. 

 

And that is the real Problem, that it makes little sense for AMD to target "Gamers" because they won't buy their products, even if they are good...

Thus it makes more sense to target the ones that are not brand loyal - wich are usually at the lower end - and go for them...

 

But still, look at the Steam Charts. Its rediculous...


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Posted · Original PosterOP

And I'm really not joking about the Science Department King bit. These cards are going to be living very long lives in builds at Science Departments of Universities the world over for at least a decade. Especially if anyone figures out how to flash a BIOS that can enable 1:2 FP64.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Science Department King Radeon VII.

Ninja edited in the Titan RTX just to show how comical even that is for FP64. Not even the Quadro RTX cards have usable FP64, exact same meager performance.

 

Without price checking I think the cheapest Nvidia card with usable FP64 performance is the Titan V which doesn't beat out the Radeon 7 by much, for 4 times the price.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

if those science departments aren't nvidia departments, mine is, such a sad thing to see

To an extent, but you can stack Compute Cards in the same system. That's one of the fun tricks with them. Also, you're going to see professors buying them up themselves. These are spot-type purchases users can get, which is why the secondary market for these is going to last a long time.  Same thing with the Hawaii cards.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

To an extent, but you can stack Compute Cards in the same system. That's one of the fun tricks with them. Also, you're going to see professors buying them up themselves.

inb4 computerphile video o_o

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Ninja edited in the Titan RTX just to show how comical even that is for FP64. Not even the Quadro RTX cards have usable FP64, exact same meager performance.

 

Without price checking I think the cheapest Nvidia card with usable FP64 performance is the Titan V which doesn't beat out the Radeon 7 by much, for 4 times the price.

Pretty sure the Tesla parts are the only ones with FP64. 

 

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#Tesla

 

It looks like you need either a GP100 or GV100 based card to have better FP64.

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