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We need a new server and advice would be apriciated

Tummy

Hello guys (or girls),

I will start right away: we "need" a new server. We currently have one that serves as a central storage location and it runs a program called trip , Trip is pritty "intensive" and we need it to run on our central server and stream to the other desktops/workstations. This also prevents that 2 people are working on the same project and it keeps track of everything so to just run it on the workspace computers them selves is no option. 

 

We have about 15 working spaces with computers that all use the same server where all the important documents and folders get saved. Lately, the server is almost hitting its maximum capacity of 1.2TB (1,09TB usable) (I'm guessing it had 4x 600GB 2,5" 15000rpm HDD's in RAID10 because that's what they want to put in the new system along with some other HDD's when we asked the supplier). So we asked the supplier for a server with more storage capacity, there wehere 2 options:

Option 1: They need to fit another rack for the hot-swapale HDD's and need to buy extra HDD's that also run in RAID 10, If I'm not mistaken the storage will be expanded by 2.4TB for a total of 3.6TB with the old HDD's for a price of €2000. 

 

Option 2: We buy a completely new system with the following specifications:

  • HPE ProLiant ML350 Gen10 Base server - 4U - Xeon Silver 4110, 16GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz, SAS, Hotswapale 2,5 bay    €2.250,00
  • Another 16GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz dimm for a total capacity of 32GB    €270,00
  • 4x 600GB 2,5" hot-swapable 15000rpm RAID 10 HDD's  (SAS)  4x€275 = €1.100,00
  • 4x 1,2TB 2,5" hot-swapable 10000rpm RAID 10 HDD's  (SAS)  4x€230 = €920,00
  • Storage for fans for the ProLiant ML350 Gen 10    €95,00
  • Hot-swapable 80-plus titanium PSU (they didn't say what wattage)     €155,00
  • Soms stupid HP Enterprise 8GB memorycard €55,00
  • HP ProLiant Intergrated Lights Out (ILO) Advanced pack     €55,00

For a whoping total of €4.900 Pre-Tax.

 

 

The first thing I thought was that they are just really ripping us off, If I want an extra relieable 3TB (Thats even more than we get extra with their BS) I would get 2x 3TB HDD's and run them in RAID1 on just a regulair SATA port with hot-plugging enabled in the bios for the sata ports for a total cost of less than €150. 

 

So my idea was to just build a server out of more mainstream parts. That means regular, cheap but relieable SATA HDD's, a desktop grade CPU (because i can't imagine a f**king NAS needing a 8-core Xeon even with trip) and a desktop case where I can swap the HDD's any time with and motherbord that supports RAID and hot-plugging (or maybe a dedicated RAID card). This would be mutch cheaper, but now I have a problem. I was planning on using the Ryzen platform, but it doesn't officially Support ECC memory (the error correcting properties)  and this is a important server, it can't just go down. Intel offers the Xeonx linup but that's also a ripoff. The server needs to run 24/7 although we can plan maintainance at nights. 

 

Another idea of mine was to swap out the 600GB HDD's for bigger ones so we don't need a rack/new server, but the suplier says it's not possible to copy everthing (And that must be the biggest BS I have ever heard). And still it would be pretty expencive because of the more uncommon type of HDD.

 

So what's your view on this and what would you do? Note that this is a important server and that relieability goes for everything, but i feel like this is just throwing money in the fire. We already have a system that backs up everthing to a different NAS (That also runs in RAID10) every evining.

 

Any help would be apriciated, thank you.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Tummy said:

Hello guys (or girls),

I will start right away: we "need" a new server. We currently have one that serves as a central storage location and it runs a program called trip , Trip is pritty "intensive" and we need it to run on our central server and stream to the other desktops/workstations. This also prevents that 2 people are working on the same project and it keeps track of everything so to just run it on the workspace computers them selves is no option. 

 

We have about 15 working spaces with computers that all use the same server where all the important documents and folders get saved. Lately, the server is almost hitting its maximum capacity of 1.2TB (1,09TB usable) (I'm guessing it had 4x 600GB 2,5" 15000rpm HDD's in RAID10 because that's what they want to put in the new system along with some other HDD's when we asked the supplier). So we asked the supplier for a server with more storage capacity, there wehere 2 options:

Option 1: They need to fit another rack for the hot-swapale HDD's and need to buy extra HDD's that also run in RAID 10, If I'm not mistaken the storage will be expanded by 2.4TB for a total of 3.6TB with the old HDD's for a price of €2000. 

 

Option 2: We buy a completely new system with the following specifications:

  • HPE ProLiant ML350 Gen10 Base server - 4U - Xeon Silver 4110, 16GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz, SAS, Hotswapale 2,5 bay    €2.250,00
  • Another 16GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz dimm for a total capacity of 32GB    €270,00
  • 4x 600GB 2,5" hot-swapable 15000rpm RAID 10 HDD's  (SAS)  4x€275 = €1.100,00
  • 4x 1,2TB 2,5" hot-swapable 10000rpm RAID 10 HDD's  (SAS)  4x€230 = €920,00
  • Storage for fans for the ProLiant ML350 Gen 10    €95,00
  • Hot-swapable 80-plus titanium PSU (they didn't say what wattage)     €155,00
  • Soms stupid HP Enterprise 8GB memorycard €55,00
  • HP ProLiant Intergrated Lights Out (ILO) Advanced pack     €55,00

For a whoping total of €4.900 Pre-Tax.

 

 

The first thing I thought was that they are just really ripping us off, If I want an extra relieable 3TB (Thats even more than we get extra with their BS) I would get 2x 3TB HDD's and run them in RAID1 on just a regulair SATA port with hot-plugging enabled in the bios for the sata ports for a total cost of less than €150. 

 

So my idea was to just build a server out of more mainstream parts. That means regular, cheap but relieable SATA HDD's, a desktop grade CPU (because i can't imagine a f**king NAS needing a 8-core Xeon even with trip) and a desktop case where I can swap the HDD's any time with and motherbord that supports RAID and hot-plugging (or maybe a dedicated RAID card). This would be mutch cheaper, but now I have a problem. I was planning on using the Ryzen platform, but it doesn't officially Support ECC memory (the error correcting properties)  and this is a important server, it can't just go down. Intel offers the Xeonx linup but that's also a ripoff. The server needs to run 24/7 although we can plan maintainance at nights. 

 

Another idea of mine was to swap out the 600GB HDD's for bigger ones so we don't need a rack/new server, but the suplier says it's not possible to copy everthing (And that must be the biggest BS I have ever heard). And still it would be pretty expencive because of the more uncommon type of HDD.

 

So what's your view on this and what would you do? Note that this is a important server and that relieability goes for everything, but i feel like this is just throwing money in the fire. We already have a system that backs up everthing to a different NAS (That also runs in RAID10) every evining.

 

Any help would be apriciated, thank you.

 

 

I can suggest many motherboards or Xeon processors.  In US what is the max you pay for motherboard and max you pay for CPU ?  How many cores do you need ?  You said 8 is a overkill.  So Im guessing a 6 or 8 core 16 threads will be good.

 

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Just now, Turtle Rig said:

I can

 

Hello, good evening. What can you do?

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1 minute ago, Tummy said:

Hello, good evening. What can you do?

Sorry I accidently hit save before I was done talking.  Look up top !

Asus Sabertooth x79 / 4930k @ 4500 @ 1.408v / Gigabyte WF 2080 RTX / Corsair VG 64GB @ 1866 & AX1600i & H115i Pro @ 2x Noctua NF-A14 / Carbide 330r Blackout

Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface / KRK Rokits 10" / Sennheiser HD 650 / Logitech G Pro Wireless Mouse & G915 Linear & G935 & C920 / SL 88 Grand / Cakewalk / NF-A14 Int P12 Ex
AOC 40" 4k Curved / LG 55" OLED C9 120hz / LaCie Porsche Design 2TB & 500GB / Samsung 950 Pro 500GB / 850 Pro 500GB / Crucial m4 500GB / Asus M.2 Card

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So tell me your budget for mobo + cpu   ..... together.  We will get you a E5 as that is plenty enough for NAS.

Asus Sabertooth x79 / 4930k @ 4500 @ 1.408v / Gigabyte WF 2080 RTX / Corsair VG 64GB @ 1866 & AX1600i & H115i Pro @ 2x Noctua NF-A14 / Carbide 330r Blackout

Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface / KRK Rokits 10" / Sennheiser HD 650 / Logitech G Pro Wireless Mouse & G915 Linear & G935 & C920 / SL 88 Grand / Cakewalk / NF-A14 Int P12 Ex
AOC 40" 4k Curved / LG 55" OLED C9 120hz / LaCie Porsche Design 2TB & 500GB / Samsung 950 Pro 500GB / 850 Pro 500GB / Crucial m4 500GB / Asus M.2 Card

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3 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

I can suggest many motherboards or Xeon processors.  In US what is the max you pay for motherboard and max you pay for CPU ?  How many cores do you need ?  You said 8 is a overkill.  So Im guessing a 6 or 8 core 16 threads will be good.

 

We have no budget, it needs to work good and be relieable. Even an older 6-core CPU should be more than sufficient. Currently we are running an E5 2620 and it works good.

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How would this work.  HP Xeon WS

Asus Sabertooth x79 / 4930k @ 4500 @ 1.408v / Gigabyte WF 2080 RTX / Corsair VG 64GB @ 1866 & AX1600i & H115i Pro @ 2x Noctua NF-A14 / Carbide 330r Blackout

Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface / KRK Rokits 10" / Sennheiser HD 650 / Logitech G Pro Wireless Mouse & G915 Linear & G935 & C920 / SL 88 Grand / Cakewalk / NF-A14 Int P12 Ex
AOC 40" 4k Curved / LG 55" OLED C9 120hz / LaCie Porsche Design 2TB & 500GB / Samsung 950 Pro 500GB / 850 Pro 500GB / Crucial m4 500GB / Asus M.2 Card

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9 minutes ago, Tummy said:

We have no budget, it needs to work good and be relieable. Even an older 6-core CPU should be more than sufficient. Currently we are running an E5 2620 and it works good.

Then id just swap those 600gb drives out for something like 4tb hdds. You should be able to to that hot assuming your using raid. Then once the drives are replaced you can expand the volume and your have more space. 

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The thing about the HPE server that you're paying premium for is the SLA. Typically they come with a 2 year next business day on-site warranty repair/replacement, and 5 year part replacement. Thats something important to think about if it's a mission critical server. 

 

Otherwise if you build it yourself, you're relying on yourself or your own field support staff and your/their ability to diagnose and source replacment parts to get the server back up in a reasonable time. 

 

If you don't have enough bays in your current server, rather than custom build have you considered just getting a more suitable server second hand? 

You could get a fairly well spec'd R720 for around 800 euros, there are plenty that support 8-12 3.5" disks, and come with RAID cards, redundant PSU's, etc...

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3 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

How would this work.  HP Xeon WS

Decent server, that is 2.5" drives though so you're limited to SAS drives or SSD's. 

Spoiler

Desktop: Ryzen9 5950X | ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (Wifi) | EVGA RTX 3080Ti FTW3 | 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB Pro 3600Mhz | EKWB EK-AIO 360D-RGB | EKWB EK-Vardar RGB Fans | 1TB Samsung 980 Pro, 4TB Samsung 980 Pro | Corsair 5000D Airflow | Corsair HX850 Platinum PSU | Asus ROG 42" OLED PG42UQ + LG 32" 32GK850G Monitor | Roccat Vulcan TKL Pro Keyboard | Logitech G Pro X Superlight  | MicroLab Solo 7C Speakers | Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT2 LE Headphones | TC-Helicon GoXLR | Audio-Technica AT2035 | LTT Desk Mat | XBOX-X Controller | Windows 11 Pro

 

Spoiler

Server: Fractal Design Define R6 | Ryzen 3950x | ASRock X570 Taichi | EVGA GTX1070 FTW | 64GB (4x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz | Corsair RM850v2 PSU | Fractal S36 Triple AIO | 12 x 8TB HGST Ultrastar He10 (WD Whitelabel) | 500GB Aorus Gen4 NVMe | 2 x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe | LSI 9211-8i HBA

 

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9 minutes ago, Jarsky said:

Decent server, that is 2.5" drives though so you're limited to SAS drives or SSD's. 

How about this Dell Xeon NAS

Asus Sabertooth x79 / 4930k @ 4500 @ 1.408v / Gigabyte WF 2080 RTX / Corsair VG 64GB @ 1866 & AX1600i & H115i Pro @ 2x Noctua NF-A14 / Carbide 330r Blackout

Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface / KRK Rokits 10" / Sennheiser HD 650 / Logitech G Pro Wireless Mouse & G915 Linear & G935 & C920 / SL 88 Grand / Cakewalk / NF-A14 Int P12 Ex
AOC 40" 4k Curved / LG 55" OLED C9 120hz / LaCie Porsche Design 2TB & 500GB / Samsung 950 Pro 500GB / 850 Pro 500GB / Crucial m4 500GB / Asus M.2 Card

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2 minutes ago, Turtle Rig said:

How about this Dell Xeon NAS

 

 

Looks alright here, I have 2 of these with Xeon X5650's. 

It has iDRAC Enterprise as well which means you can remotely manage the box if required (Dell version of iLO / IPMI)

 

You're paying a premium for all that memory though it looks like. As a comparison mine were about NZD$500 which is about 300 euros. 

You probably wont find that cheap, but something with 32-64GB should be plenty of memory and much cheaper. 

Spoiler

Desktop: Ryzen9 5950X | ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (Wifi) | EVGA RTX 3080Ti FTW3 | 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB Pro 3600Mhz | EKWB EK-AIO 360D-RGB | EKWB EK-Vardar RGB Fans | 1TB Samsung 980 Pro, 4TB Samsung 980 Pro | Corsair 5000D Airflow | Corsair HX850 Platinum PSU | Asus ROG 42" OLED PG42UQ + LG 32" 32GK850G Monitor | Roccat Vulcan TKL Pro Keyboard | Logitech G Pro X Superlight  | MicroLab Solo 7C Speakers | Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT2 LE Headphones | TC-Helicon GoXLR | Audio-Technica AT2035 | LTT Desk Mat | XBOX-X Controller | Windows 11 Pro

 

Spoiler

Server: Fractal Design Define R6 | Ryzen 3950x | ASRock X570 Taichi | EVGA GTX1070 FTW | 64GB (4x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz | Corsair RM850v2 PSU | Fractal S36 Triple AIO | 12 x 8TB HGST Ultrastar He10 (WD Whitelabel) | 500GB Aorus Gen4 NVMe | 2 x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe | LSI 9211-8i HBA

 

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Thank you all very mutch for the reactions and your opinions. I will look into it and compare, we also need to keep in mind the distance between service points and shipping risk/costs.

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On 2/6/2019 at 4:30 PM, Tummy said:

Thank you all very mutch for the reactions and your opinions. I will look into it and compare, we also need to keep in mind the distance between service points and shipping risk/costs.

Do you already have up to date backups of all the data?

 

If so, one option is to buy new drives (get SAS 3.5” enterprise ones if they are compatible with the drive bay in your existing server) and restore from the backup to the new drives. 

 

The server doesnt look horrible - but the drive selection is rather odd. Very small capacity drives. Does this Trip software have a heavy Database component? Often IT vendors will configure DB servers with a lot of smaller higher RPM drives to get better IO. 

 

Though with enterprise grade SSD’s, that’s less and less common now. 

 

Their basic build is fine - and $5K for a storage server isn’t a bad price. But I would question the need for so much ram (assuming no VM’s, and assuming this Trip program doesn’t use a lot of ram,

you'd likely be fine with 8GB of ram). 

 

As others have noted, Warranty and Support is something people often overlook when trying to save money on production business servers. 

 

With Dell or HPE, you typically get on site next day repairs. If you build your own,

you have to deal with the individual warranty for each component, which in most cases means sending it off, and waiting a week or two for the replacement part to arrive. With the server probably down the entire time. 

 

If you buy used, probably no warranty at all, so you gotta buy a replacement part and wait for shipping, etc.

 

Personally, for a business, if you can afford to buy an OEM solution, then do it. The warranty and support will save you huge headaches if anything ever goes down. 

 

Also, if you haven’t already, try giving Dell and HPE a call directly. Ask to speak to a corporate sales advisor and work with them on building a spec. They can also refer you to other local IT vendors usually

too if you wish. 

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On 2/11/2019 at 4:33 PM, dalekphalm said:

Do you already have up to date backups of all the data?

 

If so, one option is to buy new drives (get SAS 3.5” enterprise ones if they are compatible with the drive bay in your existing server) and restore from the backup to the new drives. 

 

The server doesnt look horrible - but the drive selection is rather odd. Very small capacity drives. Does this Trip software have a heavy Database component? Often IT vendors will configure DB servers with a lot of smaller higher RPM drives to get better IO. 

 

Though with enterprise grade SSD’s, that’s less and less common now. 

 

Their basic build is fine - and $5K for a storage server isn’t a bad price. But I would question the need for so much ram (assuming no VM’s, and assuming this Trip program doesn’t use a lot of ram,

you'd likely be fine with 8GB of ram). 

 

As others have noted, Warranty and Support is something people often overlook when trying to save money on production business servers. 

 

With Dell or HPE, you typically get on site next day repairs. If you build your own,

you have to deal with the individual warranty for each component, which in most cases means sending it off, and waiting a week or two for the replacement part to arrive. With the server probably down the entire time. 

 

If you buy used, probably no warranty at all, so you gotta buy a replacement part and wait for shipping, etc.

 

Personally, for a business, if you can afford to buy an OEM solution, then do it. The warranty and support will save you huge headaches if anything ever goes down. 

 

Also, if you haven’t already, try giving Dell and HPE a call directly. Ask to speak to a corporate sales advisor and work with them on building a spec. They can also refer you to other local IT vendors usually

too if you wish. 

We have backed it up so that would be an option. 

I understand your point with the warrenty and fast repairs but I could have like 5 speres of every part just laying around for the price thay are charging ;) . But I also don't think it needs this mutch ram and we acces everything over a network that is limited to 3MB/s, that does not mean however that trip can't be needing faster data transfer than that. But we also had it running on mutch older hardware and I don't think it needs that fast of IO.

I will call Dell directly and ask, thanks for the advice. And if I can let a professional IT guy do it I would rather do that dan be responsible myself. Of course also "proffesional IT guy companies" have competitors and I heard that they are cheaper and as good. My plan is to just get to what we need and see witch one offers the best deal also considering warrenty and replacements.

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2 hours ago, Tummy said:

We have backed it up so that would be an option. 

I understand your point with the warrenty and fast repairs but I could have like 5 speres of every part just laying around for the price thay are charging ;) .

I'd be somewhat surprised if you could actually get that many spare parts for the cost difference - but hey it's possible. If that's the route you want to go, you can.

2 hours ago, Tummy said:

But I also don't think it needs this mutch ram and we acces everything over a network that is limited to 3MB/s, that does not mean however that trip can't be needing faster data transfer than that. But we also had it running on mutch older hardware and I don't think it needs that fast of IO.

I will call Dell directly and ask, thanks for the advice. And if I can let a professional IT guy do it I would rather do that dan be responsible myself. Of course also "proffesional IT guy companies" have competitors and I heard that they are cheaper and as good. My plan is to just get to what we need and see witch one offers the best deal also considering warrenty and replacements.

Definitely compare between local IT vendors, as well as the big major OEM's.

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