2016-18 MacBook Pros are suffering from "Flexgate"

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

4 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

They are richest company not because they have geniuse engineers, but because they have genius marketologists and shameless engineers.

AFAIK

 

they were the first to put a proper SSD into a phone

are still the only one with a 3D touch feature

made fingerprint sensors mainstream

pushed technology forward by eliminating certain things (floppy disks, optical drives) forcing other manufacturers to keep up with them.

[SeraphicWings]

15 hours ago, mr moose said:

I wish all manufacturers would stop with this  "excessively thin" business and start making durable products again.  It not healthy for supermodels and it's not healthy for portable devices.

It's not like other manufacturers doesn't make thin laptops, some are thinner than Macbooks too

This is just bad engineering

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, SeraphicWings said:

It's not like other manufacturers doesn't make thin laptops, some are thinner than Macbooks too

This is just bad engineering

yea some are thinner. but those don't have 6-core cpu's and dGPU's.

[Sauron]

19 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

rip. i suppose gone are the days of Apple making MacBooks that can still work fine after 8+ years. 

When was that? 8 years ago macbooks would die early for GPU problems... goes for pretty much all models from about 2007 to 2013 if I'm not mistaken. Before that they were powerpc based and they were "killed" by apple pulling the plug in 2006.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

When was that? 8 years ago macbooks would die early for GPU problems... goes for pretty much all models from about 2007 to 2013 if I'm not mistaken. Before that they were powerpc based and they were "killed" by apple pulling the plug in 2006.

if you had one without a dGPU they could last 6+ years easily. i have a 13" from 2012 and it works perfectly fine.

 

my 2011 15" suffered from gpu faillure but i "fixed" it by forcing it to run on integrated graphics only.

[SeraphicWings]

14 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

they will probably release a replacement program. either that or they get sued and then release a replacement program

I'm buying used MBPs because I can't stomach their pricing nowadays

Maybe I should just move to MBP 15 2015? 

[Blademaster91]

43 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

You could not find faults in new thinkpads and give us link to the 12 year old thinkpad?

They leaned many things after those failures and create much better laptops. T420 is a leggend! Last thinkpad with the best keyboard out of the box. You can replace keyboard for older 7 raw ones in t430/t430s/x230 but starting from *40 models you are stuck with newer keyboards. They are not bad but older are much better.

 

Overall apple had many probems, GPU failures, Lies about unibody macs when in reality they were 2 parts glued together which eventually broke because glue was used where fans blowed hot air. Here is full list. Now go back to your google search and find me this much thinkpad failures. Thing is apple does this intentionally!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8

Yeah its just bad design, with the 2016-2018 macbooks having failing keyboards,failing batteries that expand and can break the touchpad, if you bought the 6 core version it throttles or doesn't hit the rated speed because of inadequate cooling, and IIRC there were some laptops with SSD's failing. The SSD failures wouldn't be such a problem for some users if the SSD's weren't soldered to the motherboard.

Really disappointing to pay a premium over other brands and not get a solid reliable laptop, and that you almost have to buy the Applecare warranty with how many failures these laptops have.

[79wjd]

 

15 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

you almost have to buy the Applecare warranty with how many failures these laptops have.

But how many failures is that actually? The only RMA data I've seen (albeit from a third party that is certainly not all encompassing) puts the rate for the 2016-2017 MBPs below the rate for previous models.

 

That obviously don't change the fact that the new model has a lot of stupid problems, but overall still seems to only affect a small percentage of users and a smaller percentage than in the past.

[JoeCoke]

22 hours ago, Spotty said:

@DrMacintosh has been posting most of the negative Apple news recently...

This is a strange arc in the DrMacintosh anime...

[Linus_torvalds]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah its just bad design, with the 2016-2018 macbooks having failing keyboards,failing batteries that expand and can break the touchpad, if you bought the 6 core version it throttles or doesn't hit the rated speed because of inadequate cooling, and IIRC there were some laptops with SSD's failing. The SSD failures wouldn't be such a problem for some users if the SSD's weren't soldered to the motherboard.

Really disappointing to pay a premium over other brands and not get a solid reliable laptop, and that you almost have to buy the Applecare warranty with how many failures these laptops have.

You forgot one very stupid fail from apple. These new macbooks dies when their batteries die I'll explain. If battery dies you can't turn it on even if you connect charger to it.

[Linus_torvalds]

3 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

AFAIK

 

they were the first to put a proper SSD into a phone

are still the only one with a 3D touch feature

made fingerprint sensors mainstream

pushed technology forward by eliminating certain things (floppy disks, optical drives) forcing other manufacturers to keep up with them.

1 NVMe does not matter. Other phone manufacturers have faster memory now.

2 3D touch from apple is stupid! Android added that feautre without adding new hardware to the phone and works flawlessly.

3 First device with fingerprint sensor was motorola atrix and first device with underscren fingerprint sensor Vivos phone.

4 Other companies have made much bigger steps in the technology. Example AMD. Made X64, first 1 GHZ CPU, first Dual core CPUs, Freesync, Vulkan. But no one talks about them.

[DeScruff]

@firelighter487

Quote

pushed technology forward by eliminating certain things (floppy disks, optical drives) forcing other manufacturers to keep up with them.

Yeah... Eliminating Floppy disks... If I recall Floppies were long on their way out before Apple stopped using them. Everybody wanted to replace them, there was even a format war going on, and there was no clear victor in sight.
Zip Disks were too expensive and quite fragile (Click of Death) - and was the one Apple backed. SuperDisk while backed by Compaq, Gateway, and Dell, came too late to the party, and other storage mediums were too obscure to be useful...

I actually remember getting chewed out by my 5th grade teacher, because I wanted to hand a project in on CD-R, because I didn't own some other format that she was obsessed with. - She chewed other kids out for trying to hand in projects using a "medium thats going nowhere" USB flash drives. (This was when they were newish, and it was like $80 for a 128MB one)

EDIT:  I hate the editor on this form...

[VIVO-US]

We've been carrying replacement Apple screens for a long time, and I'm the guy who has to test the majority of them.  In my experience:

 

The white 13" MacBook?  Awesome.  The screen was easy to access and replace, and the whole thing could be done in about 10-15 minutes.

Aluminum MacBook Pro?  Not too bad, but you usually need a new glass cover to go with the screen.

MacBook Air?  The original was easy enough as long as you're gentle in removing the aluminum border, but for the rest, it's easier to just replace the whole display assembly.

MacBook Pro Retina?  The LCD panel is glued in and frustrating to replace on its own, but replacing the whole assembly isn't too bad.

2016 MacBook Pro?  From a mechanical and technical stand point, it's the worst I've ever seen.  Not only is it difficult to get inside compared to other MacBooks, but then you have to remove the entire motherboard to actually disconnect and remove any part of the screen.  To me, that flex cable's always looked like a disaster waiting to happen, and I would never buy one of these for myself.  My opinion's the same for the new 12" MacBook and 2018 Air.

 

It's a shame, because these new models look great and feel really solid.  If they'd put a little more effort into making them more reliable and easier to work on, I wouldn't have any problem recommending them to friends.

[themctipers]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:55 PM, DrMacintosh said:

The Strat is to buy, resell, buy. 

 

Once my financial aid kicks in I plan on selling the MBP and buying a 2018 and then selling that once the display issue has been ironed out. 

buy once and then don't fuck with it for years is my strat 

[Thaldor]

12 minutes ago, VIVO-US said:

We've been carrying replacement Apple screens for a long time, and I'm the guy who has to test the majority of them.  In my experience:

 

The white 13" MacBook?  Awesome.  The screen was easy to access and replace, and the whole thing could be done in about 10-15 minutes.

Aluminum MacBook Pro?  Not too bad, but you usually need a new glass cover to go with the screen.

MacBook Air?  The original was easy enough as long as you're gentle in removing the aluminum border, but for the rest, it's easier to just replace the whole display assembly.

MacBook Pro Retina?  The LCD panel is glued in and frustrating to replace on its own, but replacing the whole assembly isn't too bad.

2016 MacBook Pro?  From a mechanical and technical stand point, it's the worst I've ever seen.  Not only is it difficult to get inside compared to other MacBooks, but then you have to remove the entire motherboard to actually disconnect and remove any part of the screen.  To me, that flex cable's always looked like a disaster waiting to happen, and I would never buy one of these for myself.  My opinion's the same for the new 12" MacBook and 2018 Air.

 

It's a shame, because these new models look great and feel really solid.  If they'd put a little more effort into making them more reliable and easier to work on, I wouldn't have any problem recommending them to friends.

The bolded part probably goes with the 2016-> models too?

That's actually what I was thinking, soldering something like flex cable is very hard but doable if you can get access to the connection point (not something ever lasting but it's possible to do something that is cheaper than buying whole new screen). But if the whole screen assembly is glued to the lid then you can forget accessing the screen totally, at least without possibility to cause even more damage.

 

It's bad to see Apple going this far to make their products "unrepairable" (I don't count replacing whole assemblies as repairing, that's replacing, at least if the screen cable goes bad I don't count changing the whole screen to a new one as repairing, changing the cable I can count as repairing) because they are going to get away with it and there's few PC makers who will mimic Apple and then we have a lot of laptops that are as "unrepairable" as macs.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, SeraphicWings said:

It's not like other manufacturers doesn't make thin laptops, some are thinner than Macbooks too

This is just bad engineering

did you read my post?

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

3 hours ago, mate_mate91 said:

2 3D touch from apple is stupid! Android added that feautre without adding new hardware to the phone and works flawlessly.

really? what phones have it other than iPhone?

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 hours ago, Sypran said:

@firelighter487

Yeah... Eliminating Floppy disks... If I recall Floppies were long on their way out before Apple stopped using them. Everybody wanted to replace them, there was even a format war going on, and there was no clear victor in sight.
Zip Disks were too expensive and quite fragile (Click of Death) - and was the one Apple backed. SuperDisk while backed by Compaq, Gateway, and Dell, came too late to the party, and other storage mediums were too obscure to be useful...

I actually remember getting chewed out by my 5th grade teacher, because I wanted to hand a project in on CD-R, because I didn't own some other format that she was obsessed with. - She chewed other kids out for trying to hand in projects using a "medium thats going nowhere" USB flash drives. (This was when they were newish, and it was like $80 for a 128MB one)

EDIT:  I hate the editor on this form...

Apple ditched the floppy disk in 1998 when the iMac was released. i own an original 1998 iMac and it moved forward not just from floppy disk but also ps/2. 

 

i also own some Windows pc's from that tiem period and every single one of them has a floppy disk drive. 

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, 79wjd said:

 

But how many failures is that actually? The only RMA data I've seen (albeit from a third party that is certainly not all encompassing) puts the rate for the 2016-2017 MBPs below the rate for previous models.

 

That obviously don't change the fact that the new model has a lot of stupid problems, but overall still seems to only affect a small percentage of users and a smaller percentage than in the past.

It's the same issue in nearly every thread regarding product/service quality, people forget they are in an echo chamber for product issues, which naturally leads to a misconception of the proliferation of any one issue. 

[Linus_torvalds]

3 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

really? what phones have it other than iPhone?

Stop bragging about 3D Touch on the iPhone because Android O is bringing that feature to the Android world

I have that feature on my nexus 4 & 5

 

[cj09beira]

On 1/22/2019 at 7:02 PM, Bouzoo said:

We are obviously talking about the present. It's been years now.

did it even happen? 

On 1/22/2019 at 7:03 PM, MoonSpot said:

Ever get the feeling that you're the only person in the whole world that fines 'built like a brick shit-house' tech pretty damned smexy?

Some times you just want to go all out and pound those keystrokes at 90wpm on a tough thicc keyboard.  Other times you want to firmly press and navigate your fingers across the touch screen without it wobbling or outright collapsing under the lightest caress. 

Sometimes its deeply appreciated when your tech can take a bit of rough-play and still come out on top; though now we seem to be merely appreciative if things manage to work long enough to get through their own warranty period.

i like me some rugged devices, i used to game on an old p3, that was really rugged, it was able to survive quite a beating (leterally i would kick it quite hard when it sould stop working and it would fix it self somehow), used to have an nokia e72, loved that little guy, quite tough indeed, still works to this day. the best phone experience recently has been with an Samsung S4 with a 5200 mah battery, it made the phone last 2 days of heavy use and it actually became more ergonomic, loved it to death, just a shame it was "stolen" (complicated). 

many other things these days have become less rugged than they used to, cars are one of them, they have too much plastic stuff that simply doesn't last long enough, old toyotas were The shit, my father had a 1980s Bj73, and that thing would simply not die, it even had gears where cars now use timing belts (btw in africa where conditions are horrible old 1990s toyotas is what can survive )

[Trik'Stari]

On 1/22/2019 at 6:16 PM, DrMacintosh said:

No matter what causes the issue, which everything points to the cable failing, then the result is still a $600 panel replacement. 

 

On 1/22/2019 at 6:03 PM, Curufinwe_wins said:

Not in a flexure of the cable itself, but Louis Rossman showed a live repair of something very similar like this where he simply reattached (and secured) the display cable. Not sure why the backlight itself is acting differently in this case... but yeah.

 

I can try to find the sauce on that video, but I do distinctly remember it.

In all the repairs I have done, I have never once seen this issue caused by a cable. I've seen cables caused the backlight to have no power, but I've never seen them behave as though some of the LED's were out of position or not turning on (whilst others are turning on) which is what is happening here AFAIK.

 

Either way, best bet is still to never buy Apple products because of bad repair service and seemingly increasingly bad quality?

[XR6]

5 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

really? what phones have it other than iPhone?

Every Android phone that has Nova Launcher.

Android O is also bringing native '3D Touch' for all phones with that firmware.

15 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Either way, best bet is still to never buy Apple products because of bad repair service and seemingly increasingly bad quality?

Yep, probably.

Personally, I'm not going to buy Apple products again. Every Apple product (except one) I've owned has broken in some way. My old iPhone SE's screen smashed (from about 3ft onto carpet, not too bad of a drop) and the speaker died. My 2007 MacBook Pro's GPU died. My iPad Mini 2's battery degraded real bad. The only thing that actually has survived without a problem is my iPod Touch 4th gen.

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, 1kv said:

Yep. Every Apple product (except one) I've owned has broken in some way

I'm not telling you to deny your experiences, but I haven't had any hardware failures. 

[D13H4RD]

3 hours ago, mate_mate91 said:

Stop bragging about 3D Touch on the iPhone because Android O is bringing that feature to the Android world

I have that feature on my nexus 4 & 5

 

I'm pretty sure that's more like Haptic Touch 

 

The closest thing to 3D Touch on Android would be the pressure sensitive bottom area on the Galaxy S8/S9/Note8/Note9