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thunar

Steam Proton now works on native/non-steam games as well

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I want Destiny 2 on Linux!


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2 hours ago, Lukyp said:

What was wrong about OpenGL that time?

Multiple things.

For example no reference implementation and IIRC no specification how that should look.

But that's only a minor problem.


The real Problem is that you need to programm it for every manufacturer from the ground up. 

Every Vendor needs its own render path. (And that's something what some Emulator programmers don't seem to get and blame some vendors for their shit)...

 

In short: The Extension hell. It might look as an advantage but its not in the long run as it fragments the market and increases the things you have to think about...

2 hours ago, Lukyp said:

Now speaking about performance, there are so few OpenGL games only to compare....
But they are performing great, probably Doom isn't the best example but it's OpenGL engine was really cool

What?! Doom isn't the best example? Are you kidding?
That by far is the best example of OpenGL and the only one as everyone else went to Direct 3D on Windows.

As there really was no reason to use OpenGL on Windows as Direct 3D was superior.

 

Because it was a harsh spec, that also included a reference renderer.

And also no extension and at times no or only a couple of feature flags. So a developer has to care less about the support of features.

 

2 hours ago, Lukyp said:

We all agree here that linux ports just uses OpenGL for compatibility and not for efficiency and performance, vulkan just improves this a bit

a bit? Excuse me?
Its a lot!

Between the ancient OpenGL that should have been renewed 10 years ago and the new open Mantle (:P) are universes.

 

Problem is: with the new, lower level API, you have to think different and use it different. Wich means that it might take some time for developers to really utilize it.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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4 hours ago, Humbug said:

One of the big distro makers. e.g. ubuntu, mint, debian, manjaro, Fedora etc need to make a push to increase Linux adoption as a general consumer desktop and laptop OS. btw steam works well on all these distros.

They need to stop doing their thing and agree on a standardized package(manager) that all use.

So that you can download a program and install it with double click.


You know how to install a MacOSX programm? That's also quite nice. Though I find it a bit too "playful" and with that a bit childish. Too many useless and unnecessary optical effects.

 

4 hours ago, Humbug said:

However like I said now what needs to happen is that one of the distros needs to make a huge push and become big.

There needs to be one big player overtaking the stuff. Kinda like Apple did with MacOSX.

 

Someone needs to define hard APIs that do not change.

An interface for external drivers and they have to keep these APIs at least until the next major update - not just minor or sub things...

 

4 hours ago, Humbug said:

That means addressing all of the non-gaming concerns including making deals with PC makers to ensure that laptops and pre-built PCs ship with well configured, easy to use Linux out of the box. It also means canvassing among software vendors and getting stuff like itunes and adobe software for Linux. This push needs to happen in parallel with all the gaming improvements happening. Only then will it really take off.

I think its too soon for that with the Problems the "installation" of a graphics driver causes...

And it causes the system to completely stop working, nothing you can do...


On Windows that might happen but these days its rather unlikely...

 

But the Problem is the one above, we need a standardized interface for drivers inside the Kernel that works throughout the whole major release (ie Linux Kernel version 5 and all of 5)

 

4 hours ago, Humbug said:

What is needed is not a gaming OS. What is needed is a big push for a good desktop OS, i.e. a general purpose OS. Gaming and steam will function on top of that like it works on windows and Linux currently, but the need of the hour is a general purpose OS. Of course it will work great for gaming too thanks to all the work that has been done on the Linux infrastructure, but gaming is not the total picture.

I kinda disagree.

Because if the OS is open, does the initial purpose of the OS matter at all??
 

With a "Gaming OS", you throw out everything you do not need. so the minimalist approach.

However that does NOT mean you can not use it for other purposes at all.

You just need to make that program for the new "Gaming OS".

 

Because a real SteamOS that is closed off and only allows the Steam stuff is something nobody really wants.

But we need a good basis that does something about the main problems that Linux has...

 

to be blunt:
Its great if you know what you are doing, what you want exactly and how to archieve it. The modularity is the strenth in that area.

But a normal consumer doesn't need the modularity or "openness", he needs something that works.

And the Power Desktop User (like me), needs something that works and is easy to use with multiple screens in mind - and includes the nice Windows shorkeys. And yes, it has to be like Windows because the Windows people are the ones willing to migrate to a different OS. 

The OSX People will not (and are only a fraction of the Windows People as well).

 

4 hours ago, Humbug said:

Linux gaming has to grow with Linux desktop. The two are inextricably linked.

I disagree.

Linux Desktop can grow because of Linux gaming.

Because there is a big player, making the right decisions and a goode plattform to build on.

 

It doesn't has to come from "Linux Desktop", it can come from either of those...


And there still is a lot of work to do until Linux can do Desktops really really well.

But then again, for a "Gaming Interface"; you don't need no KDE. YOu don't need no gnome. You just need to start Steam and whatever does that, is fine.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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10 hours ago, thunar said:

cause i go too tired of switching from one to another...

why? becuase you have to open all your stuff again?

 

here's a tip. instead of rebooting to switch hibernate the OS. that will store your open stuff on disk. after that turn your pc back on and you will be presented with the bootloader which allows you to switch. once you switch back again all the stuff that was open is still there.


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7 hours ago, Humbug said:

Vulkan does have better performance than openGL. 

Take this with grain of salt. Same to same execution is so similar that i wouldn't call a winner. All my vulkan test and what i have seen show exact same performance method per method. a large method showing many cubes and shaders may be at most 5% faster on Vulkan. Where Vulkan wins is the ability to multithread computation that OpenGL don't have and will never have. IF you are talking about multithreading then yes i agree but single to single execution you would need to show me a specific case where it's "that" much faster.

 

OpenGL game wont have multiple thread in the first place so i don't see how proton could possibly create thread for things that have not been generated by the game code yet. I'm pretty sure it only convert OpenGL calls to vulkan directly. Syntax is pretty much the same so i assume lost should be extremely small. I expect +/- 5% performance vs the original game. There has been some changes just before christmas for Vulkan that i haven't tested but performance single thread should be a bit higher as per what i read.

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11 minutes ago, Franck said:

OpenGL game wont have multiple thread in the first place so i don't see how proton could possibly create thread for things that have not been generated by the game code yet. I'm pretty sure it only convert OpenGL calls to vulkan directly. Syntax is pretty much the same so i assume lost should be extremely small. I expect +/- 5% performance vs the original game. There has been some changes just before christmas for Vulkan that i haven't tested but performance single thread should be a bit higher as per what i read.

Are you talking about dxvk? (what proton uses)

 

because dxvk only does that from directx, from what I know proton doesn't translate opengl to vulkan

 

The whole point of this thread is:

Finally valve has made possible to run .exe DirectX games with wine+dxvk instead of being forced to use the Linux+OGL native ported game (which we already talk about that they are often crappy)

 

35 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

They need to stop doing their thing and agree on a standardized package(manager) that all use.

So that you can download a program and install it with double click.

This already exist, snaps and flatpaks and are already available in all distros, they have their disadvantages too

 


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36 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

Are you talking about dxvk? (what proton uses)

No, I really only commented on the part saying that "Vulkan is faster than OpenGL" which had nothing to do with DirectX. Just wanted to correct the statement with real life scenarios.

 

39 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

The whole point of this thread is:

Finally valve has made possible to run .exe DirectX games with wine+dxvk instead of being forced to use the Linux+OGL native ported game (which we already talk about that they are often crappy)

I agree with the bad ports. I daily work with Vulkan, OpenGL, DirectX and i honestly don't have a definite favorite. DirectX extensibility make it so unique in each software that i understand it is difficult to convert to OpenGL or Vulkan. Unique Implementation make it difficult to have something generic to which i lift my hat to them. They have done it with apparently a slight performance gain. Would love to go through their code when i have time to see how they did it.

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