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firelighter487

vintage pinball machine help

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I don't know if this belongs here but I can give it a shot in this section. 

 

my parents own a lovely 1973 pinball machine, but it has a few problems. it won't go out of 4 player mode, and the king is always lit up (pictures down below for context). 

my dad can replace things on it, but we don't know where the problem is. we have all the manuals and diagrams for what everything does, and I was hoping someone here knows how to read those. 

IMG_0787.thumb.JPG.ab14f7efd8c2e0bfe58054f62577082d.JPG

IMG_0788.thumb.JPG.433253097b6ef5b9e009297c4bfeabcd.JPGIMG_0789.thumb.JPG.4d197de1bd8d08b14f3cbd7954b81f6a.JPG

 

I couldn't upload the diagrams here because the size of the pictures as too large, so here's a google drive link. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1s-M9r0yjM2bKFCA7Of-ZQg3lLqsukAZx?usp=sharing

 

I'd really appreciate any help with this. even just a guide in the right direction. 

 

 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

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I am by fare not a expert for pinball machine and without locking at the schematic could it be simple as a contact problem for the 4 player problem (button) and a stuck/broken relay for the light? Such problems are not uncommon for old devices.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, James Evens said:

I am by fare not a expert for pinball machine and without locking at the schematic could it be simple as a contact problem for the 4 player problem (button) and a stuck/broken relay for the light? Such problems are not uncommon for old devices.

no the button works. it's the same button to turn it on. 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, James Evens said:

I am by fare not a expert for pinball machine and without locking at the schematic could it be simple as a contact problem for the 4 player problem (button) and a stuck/broken relay for the light? Such problems are not uncommon for old devices.

also it should start up in 1 player mode, but it goes straight to 4 player. there are also less clicks and rattles when resetting so something is clearly stuck. 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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23 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

I couldn't upload the diagrams here because the size of the pictures as too large, so here's a google drive link. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1s-M9r0yjM2bKFCA7Of-ZQg3lLqsukAZx?usp=sharing

We're going to need significantly higher quality images or scans of the schematics and/or owners manual. AFAIK there is no pinball machine hobbyist here. Many of us can read the schematics and owners manuals to find potential solutions, but that requires the schematics to be actually readable.

In the meantime, do you know the manufacturer and model? That way, I can see if high quality documents already exist online.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@straight_stewie it's a Williams Electronics Dealer's Choice. 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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Posted · Original PosterOP

also we took a look at it again today and we found the fault that causes the king to light up constantly. so htat has been solved. the 4 player thing is still a problem. 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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On 1/12/2019 at 2:27 PM, firelighter487 said:

no the button works. it's the same button to turn it on. 

That does not mean much. The single button can have multiple contacts, one that handles the turning on and another that handles the player selection, for example. One contact can have failed while the other is fine. Check the amount of wires coming from the button, if more then 2 you should investigate the button further.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@straight_stewie i'm going to get the manuals and diagrams scanned probably tommorow or the day after, so stay tuned for super high resolution scans of them. :) 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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I am a bit of an enthusiast, and I think that it has to do with one of the ROM chips, it probably was erased. The ROM had the clear screen in the middle of the form factor so that you could use UV light to erase them and thus re-flash. I could easily be wrong, as I did not read all of your thread; and that is b/c you can go to Pinside Pinball Forum Link 

There you will definitely get the right answer.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, apsistec said:

I am a bit of an enthusiast, and I think that it has to do with one of the ROM chips, it probably was erased. The ROM had the clear screen in the middle of the form factor so that you could use UV light to erase them and thus re-flash. I could easily be wrong, as I did not read all of your thread; and that is b/c you can go to Pinside Pinball Forum Link 

There you will definitely get the right answer.

it doesn't have chips. the whole thing is mechanical. it's from 1973 remember....


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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I know some people who are into complex mechanical devices such as mechanical calcuators so I will message them and see if they are willing to look at it. If We had larger scans I could definetly look at the logic and see where the fault might be.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
10 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

Any updates on the solution or the scans?

 

9 minutes ago, Hopalonghacksaw said:

I know some people who are into complex mechanical devices such as mechanical calcuators so I will message them and see if they are willing to look at it. If We had larger scans I could definetly look at the logic and see where the fault might be.

i'll have the scans tommorow. 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 1/16/2019 at 8:11 AM, Hopalonghacksaw said:

I know some people who are into complex mechanical devices such as mechanical calcuators so I will message them and see if they are willing to look at it. If We had larger scans I could definetly look at the logic and see where the fault might be.

 

On 1/15/2019 at 9:59 PM, straight_stewie said:

Any updates on the solution or the scans?

here you go: 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PYv_LexMbeQvizLRpAEeEp34pOOWGw8i?usp=sharing


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@straight_stewie any luck reading the scans?


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, straight_stewie said:

I'm still here. Just had some minor hiccups the past few days. I plan on stitching the scans together tomorrow.

that's fine. if you need any other new scans or something please tell me. i have a free day tommorow so i can provide new one's if neccesary. 


DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING I SAY COULD BE WRONG. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! 

MacBook Pro 15" Late 2011: I7 2675QM HD3000 | 1 TB SSD | 16GB RAM macOS High Sierra

MacBook Pro 13" Mid 2012: I5 3210M HD4000 | 500 GB SSD | 8GB RAM macOS Mojave

Gaming PC: I5 7400 R9 290X | 512GB SSD TOTAL | 16GB RAM Windows 10

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