Ryzen 3000 Chiplet Socket

[Marco925]

Just noticed this on PCWorld's video that the chip carrier on Ryzen 3000 does indeed have a spot for another die. Here's hoping for a 16-core CPU.

[NelizMastr]

That's honestly basically confirming it in my book. They're being very sneaky sneaky leaking information bit by bit so we all keep wondering what it'll be like. I'm impressed enough as it is that the 8c/16t engineering sample beat the 9900K. That's no small feat for even a production chip.

[BobbyPdue]

Just now, NelizMastr said:

I'm impressed enough as it is that the 8c/16t engineering sample beat the 9900K.

I wouldn't be impressed just yet.  It's a single test run by AMD without any information about the CPU or the test.  If it's awesome, I'll be excited about it, but right now there's nothing to get excited about.  I would hope a brand new halo CPU would be better than another halo CPU already out for several months. The price and performance in other applications will prove which way this CPU is going to go.  I wouldn't form any opinions until actual products were released and benchmarked by third parties.

[NelizMastr]

12 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

  I would hope a brand new halo CPU would be better than another halo CPU already out for several months.

This isn't a halo CPU as it has just one chiplet. And I think you need to consider the difference in size between Intel and AMD here. Intel can crap out a monster CPU over night if they wanted to, just smack a billion dollars at the wall. AMD can't do that, so the effort is impressive regardless.

[BobbyPdue]

Just now, NelizMastr said:

so the effort is impressive regardless

My post wasn't to say the CPU wasn't impressive my point was that there isn't enough information to form an opinion about Ryzen 3rd Gen.

[NelizMastr]

10 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

My post wasn't to say the CPU wasn't impressive my point was that there isn't enough information to form an opinion about Ryzen 3rd Gen.

An opinion is always a subjective matter. As such, the criteria to form one are equally subjective. Let's agree to disagree.

[BobbyPdue]

2 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

An opinion is always a subjective matter. As such, the criteria to form one are equally subjective. Let's agree to disagree.

I'll agree to disagree and add one single benchmark with no specs for either system ran by AMD for an unspecified product they are building hype for with an unspecified price is not enough information for me to form an opinion about Ryzen 3rd Gen.  The keynote was specifically to build hype and not to provide objective data just like intel did with the 9900K. 

[Stefan Payne]

47 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

That's honestly basically confirming it in my book. They're being very sneaky sneaky leaking information bit by bit so we all keep wondering what it'll be like. I'm impressed enough as it is that the 8c/16t engineering sample beat the 9900K. That's no small feat for even a production chip.

I agree, tottally...

44 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

I wouldn't be impressed just yet.  It's a single test run by AMD without any information about the CPU or the test. 

Yes, exactly!
It shows the same Performance as the i9-9900K but doesn't mention the Clockrate.

And that is the _BIG QUESTION_ what was the AMD CPU Clocked at?
Was it 5GHz? Was it 4,5GHz?
The 4,7GHz on the i9 is known. The Clockrate on the Ryzen is not known.

Also the Memory is not known...

 

44 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

If it's awesome, I'll be excited about it, but right now there's nothing to get excited about. 

It is the mid range CPU!!
The big one is 16 Cores.

The Price of that CPU is somewhere in the 200-350€ range.

So around the same performance as i9 with half the price.

And the large one has double the cores...

 

Yeah, absolutely nothing to be exited about. Wrong label...

If "the other one" do a 10 Core CPU with 250W TDP, that's something to be exited about.

If AMD does an 8 Core CPU that is said to have a Power Consumption of almost half the Intel with the same Performance! (Ian guessed around 75W for AMD and 125W for Intel), that is nothing to be exited about. Yeah, absolutely...

 

Ähm, RLY?!

 

44 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

I would hope a brand new halo CPU would be better than another halo CPU already out for several months.

Problem:
We are talking Mid Range AMD vs. Ultra High End Desktop Intel.

The "Halo CPU" will have a higher Power Budget, according to leaks, 16 Cores and 5,1GHz Boost...

 

According to the Leaks, we might be talking about the 95W TDP Ryzen 5 3600X with 4GHz Base and 4,8GHz Boost wich has a leaked Price of $229,99...

That thing beats a 500€+ CPU...

 

44 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

The price and performance in other applications will prove which way this CPU is going to go.  I wouldn't form any opinions until actual products were released and benchmarked by third parties.

Top AMD Ryzen 9 for $450 has 16 Cores and 32 Threads, 3,9GHz Base and 4,7GHz Boost. THe Top of that has 4,3/5,1 - 16 Cores!!11

[NelizMastr]

12 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Top AMD Ryzen 9 for $450 has 16 Cores and 32 Threads, 3,9GHz Base and 4,7GHz Boost. THe Top of that has 4,3/5,1 - 16 Cores!!11

I wonder if they have any OC headroom at all. A 5GHz all core OC with Coffee Lake or better IPC would be exactly what they need. I don't think that'd be super reasonable to ask of the 16c monsters but the 8c/16t R7s should imo.

[BobbyPdue]

Deleted

[BobbyPdue]

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

It shows the same Performance as the i9-9900K but doesn't mention the Clockrate.

And that is the _BIG QUESTION_ what was the AMD CPU Clocked at?
Was it 5GHz? Was it 4,5GHz?
The 4,7GHz on the i9 is known. The Clockrate on the Ryzen is not known.

Also the Memory is not known...

No information on either test bench was given.  

 

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

t is the mid range CPU!!
The big one is 16 Cores.

The Price of that CPU is somewhere in the 200-350€ range.

So around the same performance as i9 with half the price.

None of that is official and one of the posts with specs said Ryzen 3rd gen CPU's with specs and prices would be presented at CES.

If AMD beat an i9 9900k with a mid range CPU they would have said it.  The entire purpose of the event was to promote AMD and build hype.  A Ryzen 5 beating an intel i9 9900k would be all the hype AMD would need to create.  The entire event could have been 5 minutes long if that were the case. 

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

eah, absolutely nothing to be exited about. Wrong label...

If "the other one" do a 10 Core CPU with 250W TDP, that's something to be exited about.

If AMD does an 8 Core CPU that is said to have a Power Consumption of almost half the Intel with the same Performance! (Ian guessed around 75W for AMD and 125W for Intel), that is nothing to be exited about. Yeah, absolutely...

 

Ähm, RLY?!

All of your arguments are based on rumors being a fact and that's my point.  How are you getting so excited about something with so little evidence?  

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Problem:
We are talking Mid Range AMD vs. Ultra High End Desktop Intel.

The "Halo CPU" will have a higher Power Budget, according to leaks, 16 Cores and 5,1GHz Boost...

 

According to the Leaks, we might be talking about the 95W TDP Ryzen 5 3600X with 4GHz Base and 4,8GHz Boost wich has a leaked Price of $229,99...

That thing beats a 500€+ CPU...

According to the leaks the entire 3rd Gen Ryzen line up was going to be presented. 

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Top AMD Ryzen 9 for $450 has 16 Cores and 32 Threads, 3,9GHz Base and 4,7GHz Boost. THe Top of that has 4,3/5,1 - 16 Cores!!11

If this is all true this will be the single largest improvement in desktop CPU's ever and it would have been done in record time.  For decades AMD has made marginal CPU's gains and in the last three years they've gone from being a value brand to being the most advanced CPU designer while simultaneously being the value and performance leader.  

 

I'm going to stop trying to get you to see my point about not getting excited yet and about looking at the actual facts and waiting until these CPU's are actually released before crowning the CPU king.

 

So don't let me get in the way of your fun. Have at it.  I'll even start you off: 

 

Maybe the video game they showed during the CPU announcement was actually being played on a 3300G without a discrete GPU. 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, BobbyPdue said:

No information on either test bench was given.  

At the time, maybe.

But right now we have that Information.

http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amd-president-and-ceo-dr-lisa-su-reveals-coming-high-performance

Footnote 9:

Quote

⁹ Testing performed AMD CES 2019 Keynote. In Cinebench R15 nT, the 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Desktop engineering sample processor achieved a score of 2057, better than the Intel Core i9-9900K score of 2040. During testing, system wall power was measured at 134W for the AMD system and 191W for the Intelsystem; for a difference of (191-134)/191=.298 or 30% lower power consumption.
System configurations: AMD engineering sample silicon, Noctua NH-D15S thermal solution, AMD reference motherboard, 16GB (2x8) DDR4-2666 MHz memory, 512GB Samsung 850 PRO SSD, AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 GPU, graphics driver 18.30.19.01 (Adrenalin 18.9.3), Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (1809); Inteli909900K, Noctua NH-D15S thermal solution, Gigabyte Z390 Aorus, 16GB (2x8) DDR4-2666 MHz memory, 512GB Samsung 850 PRO SSD, AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 GPU, graphics driver 18.30.19.01 (Adrenalin 18.9.3), Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (1809).

So its not even optimized or so. They only use DDR4-2666 on both Plattforms. Not a Problem on Intel, they don't loose much. But the AMD Chips we have right now do.

 

1 hour ago, BobbyPdue said:

None of that is official and one of the posts with specs said Ryzen 3rd gen CPU's with specs and prices would be presented at CES.

If AMD beat an i9 9900k with a mid range CPU they would have said it.  The entire purpose of the event was to promote AMD and build hype.  A Ryzen 5 beating an intel i9 9900k would be all the hype AMD would need to create.  The entire event could have been 5 minutes long if that were the case. 

They did say that it wasn't the top product. And that they only used an 8 core at the time. 

Though Lisa mentioned that there may be more than 8 Cores. You have to listen again...

 

And you ever thought about that AMd doesn't want to show too muh? Just enough to keep people excited but not rattle the competition so that when they actually release it the other ones don't have a better product??

So yeah, it is a mid range product according to the leaks that were leaked a couple of weeks ago...

 

1 hour ago, BobbyPdue said:

All of your arguments are based on rumors being a fact and that's my point.  How are you getting so excited about something with so little evidence?  

Yeah, it ain't Intel, so people aren't exited

Only if the big ones do that, people get exited. But AMD?

Even if it is 7nm

even if they have shown 30-40% lower power consumption.

Even if they tested with "low spec" memory.

Even if they tested with a single CPU Die Chip (that might or might not exist).

 

Yeah, absolutely no reason to be exited. They "only" beat a 125W CPU with 75WQ Power Consumption -> https://www.anandtech.com/show/13829/amd-ryzen-3rd-generation-zen-2-pcie-4-eight-core

 

Who cares if they are the first to introduce PCIe 4.0 to the public.

Who cares if they have 7nm when the other has not

Who cares if they have the more advanced chip and possibly double the Core Count than 9900K in a normal Standard Desktop Enviroment.

 

And that with a chip that's said to be relased in around 6 Months or so.

 

Sorry dude, but that really IS exiting!

I don't get why you don't want to see it.

That they beaten Intel with a pro INtel Benchmark, with low spec memory with an early silicone that might get another revision or two and one or two other optimizations...

 

1 hour ago, BobbyPdue said:

According to the leaks the entire 3rd Gen Ryzen line up was going to be presented. 

No, according to the Leaks they were announced or mentioned...

 

Watch the Video:

 

1 hour ago, BobbyPdue said:

If this is all true this will be the single largest improvement in desktop CPU's ever and it would have been done in record time.  For decades AMD has made marginal CPU's gains and in the last three years they've gone from being a value brand to being the most advanced CPU designer while simultaneously being the value and performance leader.  

Yes, because they didn't fuck up the initial release of the CPU (like Bulldozer with the ancient K10 Northbridge that crippled the CPU Core. With a good Northbridge it would be better. Thus its best to compare Bulldozer at 2GHz, maybe 2,5GHz with the Rest at similar clockspeeds)...

 

And with the Chips they had right now they had also some "performance issues" and knew what the Problem was and how to improve it.

Mainly it was memory latency...

And also inter core Communication.

And also a bit bigger caches woudln't be a too bad idea either.

 

L2 Cache was a big Problem for AMD for years. Even in the olden days, the Cache was what crippled the performance of AMD Chips a bit (more)...

 

1 hour ago, BobbyPdue said:

I'm going to stop trying to get you to see my point about not getting excited yet and about looking at the actual facts and waiting until these CPU's are actually released before crowning the CPU king.

Yeah, because there is all the reason to be exited about Ryzen 3000 series.

Because its the first sub 14/12nm Consumer Product.

Because its the first product with PCIe 4.0 (CPU at least)

Because it was able to beat the Intel Chip with early silicone

Because its still around 5-7 Months away and it already performs amazing.

Because it has way lower power consumption than the 9900K. See the Link from Anandtech above. He speculates that the Ryzen 3000 Chip only consumed 75W while Intel did 125W according to his estimates.

 

Totally not something to be exited about

 

So its still possible that they might optimize timings and memory latency further. That's the biggest Problem Ryzen has.

 

I don't know if you know but AMD was the first one to integrate the Memory Controler into the CPU.

And now they are the first ones to throw them out again.

But the "I/O Die" isn't just a Memory Controller or PCIe interface like it is the Case with Intel. its the whole Chipset!

There's S-ATA inside, IIRC also HD Audio (though not sure, might be in the other chip), but USB is inside as well as PCIe and all the shit you need to make a working computer.

 

So in theory it doesn't even matter if the Chipset dies...

[pas008]

13 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

At the time, maybe.

But right now we have that Information.

http://ir.amd.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amd-president-and-ceo-dr-lisa-su-reveals-coming-high-performance

Footnote 9:

So its not even optimized or so. They only use DDR4-2666 on both Plattforms. Not a Problem on Intel, they don't loose much. But the AMD Chips we have right now do.

 

They did say that it wasn't the top product. And that they only used an 8 core at the time. 

Though Lisa mentioned that there may be more than 8 Cores. You have to listen again...

 

And you ever thought about that AMd doesn't want to show too muh? Just enough to keep people excited but not rattle the competition so that when they actually release it the other ones don't have a better product??

So yeah, it is a mid range product according to the leaks that were leaked a couple of weeks ago...

 

Yeah, it ain't Intel, so people aren't exited

Only if the big ones do that, people get exited. But AMD?

Even if it is 7nm

even if they have shown 30-40% lower power consumption.

Even if they tested with "low spec" memory.

Even if they tested with a single CPU Die Chip (that might or might not exist).

 

Yeah, absolutely no reason to be exited. They "only" beat a 125W CPU with 75WQ Power Consumption -> https://www.anandtech.com/show/13829/amd-ryzen-3rd-generation-zen-2-pcie-4-eight-core

 

Who cares if they are the first to introduce PCIe 4.0 to the public.

Who cares if they have 7nm when the other has not

Who cares if they have the more advanced chip and possibly double the Core Count than 9900K in a normal Standard Desktop Enviroment.

 

And that with a chip that's said to be relased in around 6 Months or so.

 

Sorry dude, but that really IS exiting!

I don't get why you don't want to see it.

That they beaten Intel with a pro INtel Benchmark, with low spec memory with an early silicone that might get another revision or two and one or two other optimizations...

 

No, according to the Leaks they were announced or mentioned...

 

Watch the Video:

 

Yes, because they didn't fuck up the initial release of the CPU (like Bulldozer with the ancient K10 Northbridge that crippled the CPU Core. With a good Northbridge it would be better. Thus its best to compare Bulldozer at 2GHz, maybe 2,5GHz with the Rest at similar clockspeeds)...

 

And with the Chips they had right now they had also some "performance issues" and knew what the Problem was and how to improve it.

Mainly it was memory latency...

And also inter core Communication.

And also a bit bigger caches woudln't be a too bad idea either.

 

L2 Cache was a big Problem for AMD for years. Even in the olden days, the Cache was what crippled the performance of AMD Chips a bit (more)...

 

Yeah, because there is all the reason to be exited about Ryzen 3000 series.

Because its the first sub 14/12nm Consumer Product.

Because its the first product with PCIe 4.0 (CPU at least)

Because it was able to beat the Intel Chip with early silicone

Because its still around 5-7 Months away and it already performs amazing.

Because it has way lower power consumption than the 9900K. See the Link from Anandtech above. He speculates that the Ryzen 3000 Chip only consumed 75W while Intel did 125W according to his estimates.

 

Totally not something to be exited about

 

So its still possible that they might optimize timings and memory latency further. That's the biggest Problem Ryzen has.

 

I don't know if you know but AMD was the first one to integrate the Memory Controler into the CPU.

And now they are the first ones to throw them out again.

But the "I/O Die" isn't just a Memory Controller or PCIe interface like it is the Case with Intel. its the whole Chipset!

There's S-ATA inside, IIRC also HD Audio (though not sure, might be in the other chip), but USB is inside as well as PCIe and all the shit you need to make a working computer.

 

So in theory it doesn't even matter if the Chipset dies...

plus 9900k scored what it did in many reviews on mt that was unlimited/mce/whatever

 

we just dont know if that was a binned chip they were showing off but still very impressive given its still like 3 months away lol

 

but cinebench has always seemed to favor amd according to anandtechs article lol

[nick name]

I'm late to this thread, but I could see that there were traces when Su showed the CPU on stage at CES.  I believe others did too.

[pas008]

12 minutes ago, nick name said:

I'm late to this thread, but I could see that there were traces when Su showed the CPU on stage at CES.  I believe others did too.

fits into what the rumors/speculations are

 

 

[BobbyPdue]

11 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

They did say that it wasn't the top product. And that they only used an 8 core at the time. 

Though Lisa mentioned that there may be more than 8 Cores. You have to listen again...

Don't be so snarky.  Did she say "This is our mid range CPU" If she did please quote it.

 

11 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Because its the first sub 14/12nm Consumer Product.

Samsung and Apple both have 7nm consumer products. The Crimson Canyon NUCs models NUC8i3CYSN and NUC8i3CYSM were introduced to the market back at the beginning of December they have 10nm processors.

 

11 hours ago, pas008 said:

Because its the first product with PCIe 4.0 (CPU at least)

What does that do for consumers?

 

11 hours ago, pas008 said:

Because it was able to beat the Intel Chip with early silicone

A poster on The Rzyen Reddit page scored 1964 on a Ryzen 7 2700X with air cooling. 

 

11 hours ago, pas008 said:

Because its still around 5-7 Months away and it already performs amazing

What performs amazing?  What is it?  Is 90 more points in Cinebench amazing?

 

11 hours ago, pas008 said:

Because it has way lower power consumption than the 9900K.

Most if not all desktop CPU's consume a less power than a 9900k it's not an optimized CPU it was a quick answer to AMD. 

 

11 hours ago, pas008 said:

Totally not something to be exited about

An unamed, unspecificed CPU runs Cinebench 90 points better than a 4.3Ghz 2700X, there's no pricing, there's no specs, only speculation.  What uses PCIe 4.0? As far as I've read no GPU is maxing out PCIe 3.0 at this time.

 

11 hours ago, pas008 said:

But the "I/O Die" isn't just a Memory Controller or PCIe interface like it is the Case with Intel. its the whole Chipset!

There's S-ATA inside, IIRC also HD Audio (though not sure, might be in the other chip), but USB is inside as well as PCIe and all the shit you need to make a working computer.

What does that do for the consumer? 

 

What am I supposed to get out of the article you posted? 

 

Here is what I got from it:

 

"This press release contains forward-looking statements concerning Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) including the features, functionality, availability, timing, deployment, benefits and expectations of AMD future products and technologies and growth in the industry, which are made pursuant to the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements are commonly identified by words such as "would," "intends," "believes," "expects," "may," "will," "should," "seeks," "intends," "plans," "pro forma," "estimates," "anticipates," or the negative of these words and phrases, other variations of these words and phrases or comparable terminology. Investors are cautioned that the forward-looking statements in this document are based on current beliefs, assumptions and expectations, speak only as of the date of this document and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations. Such statements are subject to certain known and unknown risks and uncertainties, many of which are difficult to predict and generally beyond AMD's control, that could cause actual results and other future events to differ materially from those expressed in, or implied or projected by, the forward-looking information and statements."

 

 

Harley Davidson released a new electric motorcycle at CES it supposedly does 0 - 60 in under 3.5 seconds is that worth being excited about? 

 

 

[pas008]

think you have your  quotes wrong before  typing

 

but do yourself a favor and drink a cup  of I dont give a fuck tea its black and sometimes tastes like berries, sometimes  ashes with side effect of juices not to be spoken but

 

cause you have no need reading any manufacturer or being a fanboy screwiness they alll screw you and leave you paying again by 2020 amd or intel\

 

guess what  tech moves on and so does the population

 

mr mojo rising

 

gotta keep on rising

 

mr mojo rising

 

but quote the right people plz

 

12am i''m partying and jamming

 

make it real quotes

 

i'm not going to argue for anyone intel nvidia amd qualcomm

fuck them all their ips hold back innovation when its an established foundation

 

mr mojo rising?

lol ok quote the others not this asshole

 

and fyi

amd is killing it, you owe yourself to no establishment

 

 

 

 

[BobbyPdue]

12 minutes ago, pas008 said:

amd is killing it

Not yet.

[BobbyPdue]

12 hours ago, nick name said:

I'm late to this thread, but I could see that there were traces when Su showed the CPU on stage at CES.  I believe others did too.

I don't think anyone is denying that.  All I'm saying is there isn't anything concrete enough to get excited about a $199 8/16 CPU that outperforms intel's i9 9900k in every single scenario.

[pas008]

4 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

Not yet.

simple not yet to a quote?

 

they are killing it might take awhile just like tablets

lower power laptops means compared to intel on same tasks 25% more batter life

on desktops

not even trying they secured a crown not even kings dreamed about

 like intel which we all know they couldnt even throw their best at

 

i'd love to be short sided like you

 

why? cause i'd always upgrade to please your other side

 

quit being biased and once you get the new chip you will see

chiplet is here to stay

 

[pas008]

5 minutes ago, pas008 said:

simple not yet to a quote?

 

they are killing it might take awhile just like tablets

lower power laptops means compared to intel on same tasks 25% more batter life

on desktops

not even trying they secured a crown not even kings dreamed about

 like intel which we all know they couldnt even throw their best at

 

i'd love to be short sided like you

 

why? cause i'd always upgrade to please your other side

 

quit being biased and once you get the new chip you will see

chiplet is here to stay

 

sry many of those werent my quotes but i did pro and  con them

wish you all would be optimistic

[nick name]

36 minutes ago, BobbyPdue said:

I don't think anyone is denying that.  All I'm saying is there isn't anything concrete enough to get excited about a $199 8/16 CPU that outperforms intel's i9 9900k in every single scenario.

Of course it isn't gonna be that cheap.  Well unless you have a coupon.  Always use coupons.  

[ch3w2oy]

Someones upset they bought Intel.

[BobbyPdue]

56 minutes ago, pas008 said:

think you have your  quotes wrong before  typing

 

but do yourself a favor and drink a cup  of I dont give a fuck tea its black and sometimes tastes like berries, sometimes  ashes with side effect of juices not to be spoken but

 

cause you have no need reading any manufacturer or being a fanboy screwiness they alll screw you and leave you paying again by 2020 amd or intel\

 

guess what  tech moves on and so does the population

 

mr mojo rising

 

gotta keep on rising

 

mr mojo rising

 

but quote the right people plz

 

12am i''m partying and jamming

 

make it real quotes

 

i'm not going to argue for anyone intel nvidia amd qualcomm

fuck them all their ips hold back innovation when its an established foundation

 

mr mojo rising?

lol ok quote the others not this asshole

 

and fyi

amd is killing it, you owe yourself to no establishment

 

 

 

 

I didn't do any typing I just quoted from your post. I try to avoid quoting an entire post of quotes to avoid these types of mistakes.  

 

I don't know why you would think I'm biased toward one CPU manufacturer since the entire point of my post was "don't get excited until there is an official release and third party benchmarks" my posts are against blindly believing rumors and speculation. 
 

[BobbyPdue]

34 minutes ago, pas008 said:

quit being biased and once you get the new chip you will see

chiplet is here to stay

How am I being biased?  I'm against speculation taken as fact.  If these CPU's turn out to be as great as people are speculating that's awesome, but I'm not going to get my hopes up based on unrealistic specs and prices until they are official.