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YoloSwag

UPDATED* AMD announces the Radeon VII - but it's $699 | Nvidia calls it "Lousy"

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56 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

And in the end, it's not a bad card if it goes against RTX 2080. And still has absurd compute capabilities not found even on Titan cards iirc.

Not bad, but not really good either if the price really is $699. And that compute stuff was fake news/mistaken. Been said already further up. Would have been good if true.

34 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Since then...I see plenty of 2080's under $699.  I like this price war.

Yeah, AMD knows that Nvidia is going to do that and make a little less profit than if AMD had launched nothing.


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On 1/10/2019 at 4:34 AM, Blademaster91 said:

1: Didn't he have a video claiming that Vega II and Navi would be at CES?

 

2: He lied himself with the clickbait "leaked" Ryzen 3000 specs also.

1:

Everything AdoredTV found and presented about AMD recently (except Navi since no info on that yet) lines up almost exactly with what AMD presented at CES. He talked about this logo:

image.png.38e3c34fb53b3611e938b97cfd2d4613.png

and thought V stood for Vega and II stood for two as a second generation vega card was being leaked; hence Vega II. Seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. No one thought it was supposed to be read as the roman numeral VII (for radeon 7). Predicting a second generation Vega card was going to be released was correct.

 

I'm not surprised his unveiling date was wrong (his focus is technical info from hardware leaks), but so far he's hit the nail on the head with technical expectations prior to launch and unveils.

 

2:

No clickbait, an analysis of leaks. You know, the whole objective of his channel? So far he's on the money. How did he lie?


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On 1/14/2019 at 7:53 PM, Stefan Payne said:

Lets wait and see what happens and how good Navi will be compared to Vega 20...

The thing you've quoted doesn't mean that Navi will be worse either...

Navi will not be worse. It will be a superior architecture.

But if they are launching a mid-range part it will be slower. i.e. if the Navi they launch this year has like 30 CUs then no way is it going to beat the raw performance of a Vega 20. But it will be a better architecture with more performance per clock, better efficiencies  etc.

 

Now if AMD does decide to launch high end Navi this year with a lot of CUs then yes it will beat Vega 20 on raw performance too. But all the speculation and leaks are saying that Navi in 2019 is a midrange part. And now we have AMD's CTO saying that they started from the high end vega 20 and will fill out the rest throughout the year.

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1 hour ago, Humbug said:

Navi will not be worse. It will be a superior architecture.

But if they are launching a mid-range part it will be slower. i.e. if the Navi they launch this year has like 30 CUs then no way is it going to beat the raw performance of a Vega 20. But it will be a better architecture with more performance per clock, better efficiencies  etc.

 

Now if AMD does decide to launch high end Navi this year with a lot of CUs then yes it will beat Vega 20 on raw performance too. But all the speculation and leaks are saying that Navi in 2018 is a midrange part. And now we have AMD's CTO saying that they started from the high end vega 20 and will fill out the rest throughout the year.

2020 is the earliest we'd see a replacement for the Radeon 7. "Big Navi" might be 2021, but I think it'd be ill advised for AMD to go that long.

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8 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

2020 is the earliest we'd see a replacement for the Radeon 7. "Big Navi" might be 2021, but I think it'd be ill advised for AMD to go that long.

2020 for sure I think for Big Navi. Since mid-range Navi is launching in 2019 I see no reason they would need until 2021 to prep it's big brother. 7nm will also be mature enough by 2020 for making big dies more cheaply.

 

I expect AMD graphics launches from now on to be a bit more frequent. They had actually refocused around discrete graphics since Raja's time and now the company as a whole has been making profits again and increasing R&D.

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On 1/12/2019 at 9:10 PM, handymanshandle said:

because you can find stock RTX 2080s for that cash.

True but those are the bottom of the barrel coolers. Event the EVGA Black cards are just fine nothing stellar if all you want to do is stick your card in your system and go, but I reckon the enthusiasts who buy those end up overclocking or wanting to. They would probably go for cards with a better cooler. Whereas RVII may (waiting for review) have a significantly better cooling solution at the same price point. Just my thought on the price being "the same" technically.


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10 minutes ago, Humbug said:

2020 for sure I think for Big Navi. Since mid-range Navi is launching in 2019 I see no reason they would need until 2021 to prep it's big brother. 7nm will also be mature enough by 2020 for making big dies more cheaply.

 

I expect AMD graphics launches from now on to be a bit more frequent. They had actually refocused around discrete graphics since Raja's time and now the company as a whole has been making profits again and increasing R&D.

If Nvidia goes to Samsung EUV 7nm+ for their first 7nm consumer part, it's going to be late 2020 before the next generation from Nvidia. (The Volta replacement should be out in Summer; not sure who's 7nm node it'll be on.) AMD would be highly advised to have Arcturus out by then.

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57 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

If Nvidia goes to Samsung EUV 7nm+ for their first 7nm consumer part, it's going to be late 2020 before the next generation from Nvidia. (The Volta replacement should be out in Summer; not sure who's 7nm node it'll be on.) AMD would be highly advised to have Arcturus out by then.

LOL If AMD doesn't Nvidia will by then just launch the Volta replacement high end at like $1500 maintaining the same price/perf as the previous gen and calling it a new generation.

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1 minute ago, Humbug said:

LOL If AMD doesn't Nvidia will by then just launch the Volta replacement high end at like $1500 maintaining the same price/perf as a the previous gen and calling it a new generation.

Volta is HBM2-based. We don't know if the Volta replacement will be HBM2 as well. Turing took a lot from Volta, but it's not quite the same. Nvidia, several generations ago, switched to a Compute First approach. (Please ignore they should have had Async several generations ago...) So whatever is coming in 7nm gaming cards is going to be seen this year in their next Compute card. Which, if we do see it in Retail, is going to be more expensive than the RTX Titan.

 

The name is probably Ampere, but we don't know if that's the gaming product or the compute one. At least publicly. (I have a suspicion that Turing/Ampere were the same project at one point, which Nvidia branching when they had a better appreciation for the 7nm node situation back in 2016. It's part of why there was a dual rumor mill around the post-Pascal product for a while.)

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Can the cards fans rotate with a 1/4 pounder cheeseburger on them?

 

 

IMHO, as I have a lot of catching up to do on tech :D more competition is brilliant.  Best of luck AMD :D


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I'll pass.

 


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38 minutes ago, porina said:

I'll pass.

 

So forgive my ignorance (I really haven't looked closely at the vega as it doesn't interest me), but does this mean when people were trying to argue this was a better deal than a 2080 (because RT etc features were as yet unrealized), were doing so on the assumption that this new vega had better performance than it does?


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Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

So forgive my ignorance (I really haven't looked closely at the vega as it doesn't interest me), but does this mean when people were trying to argue this was a better deal than a 2080 (because RT etc features were as yet unrealized), were doing so on the assumption that this new vega had better performance than it does?

FP64 is used in some computation, not gaming. If Radeon 7 offered max FP64 performance it would be equal to Radeon Instinct Mi 50 - a ~3000 USD Card and would kill it sales (plus would dump on Nvidia Titan V which is also a 3K USD computation GPU). Consumer variants of chips used in compute cards have FP64 nerfed, that's the standard (but still FP64 of Radeon 7 is higher than like 2080 Ti - and only specific applications use FP64 - mostly scientific calculation and alike.

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14 minutes ago, riklaunim said:

FP64 is used in some computation, not gaming. If Radeon 7 offered max FP64 performance it would be equal to Radeon Instinct Mi 50 - a ~3000 USD Card and would kill it sales (plus would dump on Nvidia Titan V which is also a 3K USD computation GPU). Consumer variants of chips used in compute cards have FP64 nerfed, that's the standard (but still FP64 of Radeon 7 is higher than like 2080 Ti - and only specific applications use FP64 - mostly scientific calculation and alike.

The people who were arguing with me were trying to insinuate that this vega brought something to the table that made up for the lack of AI and RT hardware. It seems they were assuming it's FP64 performance was bigger than what it was.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

So forgive my ignorance (I really haven't looked closely at the vega as it doesn't interest me), but does this mean when people were trying to argue this was a better deal than a 2080 (because RT etc features were as yet unrealized), were doing so on the assumption that this new vega had better performance than it does?

Double Precision (FP64) really only matters in a few scientific workloads. Somehow some fake news got around that it was the full Compute capability of the normal MI50. AMD was about to sell out their entire supply of cards to universities by reason of false information. 

 

This does mean, for FP64 tasks, this card is almost 250% more powerful than a RTX Titan, though some of the old Hawaii cards are still floating around and they do pretty well, comparatively. Actually, looking back, normally the "Compute Card as high-end GPU" gets 1:8 from AMD.

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The people who were arguing with me were trying to insinuate that this vega brought something to the table that made up for the lack of AI and RT hardware. It seems they were assuming it's FP64 performance was bigger than what it was.

For a high-end GPU, which really don't sell in huge numbers, the full FP64 ability, would make it the premiere choice for Universities around the world. Professors & Researchers could swing the 700USD on their budget without much issue. With only 1:8, it still will have that use given it's performance per price, but it won't be quite the hot commodity in that space.

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I'd like to see a slightly cut down version of this with 56 cu's and 8gb of hbm 2 (still in quad stack) for $550 so that way they have a much better 2080 competitor. Since vega has the front end bottleneck it won't affect performance in games and would only slightly affect compute workloads that don't need massive amounts of memory.


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On 1/10/2019 at 12:38 AM, DrMacintosh said:

 Nice attempt at controlling the narrative though. 

It is an artform, that is why I like watching CNN sometimes.

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3 hours ago, mr moose said:

The people who were arguing with me were trying to insinuate that this vega brought something to the table that made up for the lack of AI and RT hardware. It seems they were assuming it's FP64 performance was bigger than what it was.

 

Info has come out indicating that the instinct line at least does have support in it's hardware for machine learning stuff. Weather thats going to port over to this card is unknown, but don't rule it out yet.

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18 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Info has come out indicating that the instinct line at least does have support in it's hardware for machine learning stuff. Weather thats going to port over to this card is unknown, but don't rule it out yet.

But it's still people using an unknown to argue an equivalent without actually having anything to compare.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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5 hours ago, mr moose said:

The people who were arguing with me were trying to insinuate that this vega brought something to the table that made up for the lack of AI and RT hardware. It seems they were assuming it's FP64 performance was bigger than what it was.

DirectML? But in general it's a standard GPU without any specialized segments. The die is small and that's it. It's not a new generation and it's not even designed to compete on the field of raytracing, AI and so on.

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7 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Double Precision (FP64) really only matters in a few scientific workloads. Somehow some fake news got around that it was the full Compute capability of the normal MI50. AMD was about to sell out their entire supply of cards to universities by reason of false information. 

Ryan Smith, Editor in chief of Anandtech, had previously tweeted it had full FP performance, based on what he was told by someone from AMD at the time. Incorrect it may be, but he sourced it from AMD. He also got the latest statement, from someone at AMD who hopefully knows more than his first contact.


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9 hours ago, porina said:

Well this is good news.

According to GPU-db Radeon 7 has 1,728 FP64 with this ratio.

Compared to the 2080 Ti which has 420 GFLOPS FP64. The Titan RTX has 509 GFLOPS. As has been said this puts the Radeon in a good spot, takes sales from Nvidia where buyers want FP64, but doesn't have much impact on their high end cards which still offer more FP64 performance at a pro price.

 

It's important to remember that FP64 Double Precision is irrelevant for gaming. The better this card is at it, the more likely it is to be bought up by Pro users, universities etc. Which will be good for AMD but maybe not for gamers as it isn't going to do anything for prices except push them up. I am (at least for now) a pro user because I have some programming projects which use FP64. This GPU is the fastest consumer FP64 card AMD has produced since the 7970 and it's rebrands which had 1024 GFLOPS. So I might well buy it even though it's not a Double Precision beast it's still a good bit better than everything else under $3000+.


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9 minutes ago, Madgemade said:

Well this is good news.

According to GPU-db Radeon 7 has 1,728 FP64 with this ratio.

Compared to the 2080 Ti which has 420 GFLOPS FP64. The Titan RTX has 509 GFLOPS. As has been said this puts the Radeon in a good spot, takes sales from Nvidia where buyers want FP64, but doesn't have much impact on their high end cards which still offer more FP64 performance at a pro price.

 

It's important to remember that FP64 Double Precision is irrelevant for gaming. The better this card is at it, the more likely it is to be bought up by Pro users, universities etc. Which will be good for AMD but maybe not for gamers as it isn't going to do anything for prices except push them up. I am (at least for now) a pro user because I have some programming projects which use FP64. This GPU is the fastest consumer FP64 card AMD has produced since the 7970 and it's rebrands which had 1024 GFLOPS. So I might well buy it even though it's not a Double Precision beast it's still a good bit better than everything else under $3000+.

Is there a street price for MI50 for comparison? In a quick search I've drawn a blank. I'm thinking those that care about FP64 wont necessarily want a single cheap card, but want a certain performance level overall, single or multiple cards. In this sense, I'd like to try a DP/$ as well as DP/W estimate. Traditionally I've built up on CPUs to deliver FP64 (especially with AVX2, with AVX-512 support building) in my niche.

 

My feeling for now is, AMD picked this exact rate to give a bit more FP64 for those who want it on the side, but unattractive enough for those who need it exclusively to preserve their higher end offerings.


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5 minutes ago, porina said:

My feeling for now is, AMD picked this exact rate to give a bit more FP64 for those who want it on the side, but unattractive enough for those who need it exclusively to preserve their higher end offerings.

Exactly that.

There is no street price for any MI50 or MI60 card that I know of. I think they're only available to bulk buyers in server farms and such. Maybe we will see better availability once this launches. The MI25 which has the same FP64 as Vega is hard to find a price for but it looks like it is at least $5000 so I would expect MI50 and MI60 to be close to $10,000!

 

We know the MI50 has 4x the FP64 because it uses at 1:2 ratio at almost the same clocks. But there is no way the MI50 is going for $2796 = 4x$699 it is at least twice or three time that. But for server use it is obviously better to have one card at 300W than it is to have 4 at 1200W and 4 times the space used and heat output.

 

For Double Precision it only makes sense for those who are experimenting and want better performance than the 1:32 ratios of Nvidia and AMDs normal 1:16 ratios, but don't actually need lots of performance and don't have a big budget.

8 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

For a high-end GPU, which really don't sell in huge numbers, the full FP64 ability, would make it the premiere choice for Universities around the world. Professors & Researchers could swing the 700USD on their budget without much issue. With only 1:8, it still will have that use given it's performance per price, but it won't be quite the hot commodity in that space.

Exactly this.


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