Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
VegetableStu

[ended] AMD CES 2019 Keynote Livethread!

someone should make a thread on the CPU updates, lol o_o

5 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

So apparently, in an interview with PCWorld, Lisa Su hinted at the possibility that Ryzen 3xxx may have more cores. 

Of course, this isn't concrete confirmation, but it does add fuel to the speculation. 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332205/amd/amd-ceo-lisa-su-interview-ryzen-raytracing-radeon.html

30 minutes ago, porina said:

Beat me to posting the PCWorld article, but have this Anandtech one about NO chiplet APU, at least not for this generation.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

 

 

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

AMD is also in a much better position to iterate their architecture and bring improvements to market. The chiplet allows you to focus solely on where you need or want to to gain performance and refine what you can, you can then place that new and improved chiplet on the same CPU package with the same I/O die without a redesign of those. You can do the same for the I/O die too. Scarily AMD could go the route of Intel 14nm++++++++++ and release updated products with die specific improvements every 6 or so months if they wanted to or had an actual improvement, the core chiplets and I/O dies are now two separate product development streams of work that don't have to run in conjunction with each other. 

 

Thinking about the chiplet design, how hard would it be to start sticking just enough memory on there to hold the CPU specific BIOS code on there and allowing MB manufacturers to get away with not having to preload 20 different sets of BIOS?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So apparently, in an interview with PCWorld, Lisa Su hinted at the possibility that Ryzen 3xxx may have more cores. 

Quote

While Su didn’t say for certain that the upcoming 3rd-generation Ryzen would ship with more than the eight cores that she announced on stage, well, it wasn’t hard to read between the lines. “If you look at the evolution of Ryzen, we’ve always had an advantage in core count,” Su said.

 

In the demonstration showed onstage—comparing a 3rd-generation eight-core, 16-thread Ryzen against an Intel Core i9-9900K, which lost to the Ryzen chip in the Cinebench benchmark—Su said that she wanted to establish a head-to-head comparison, using comparable core counts. 

 

“Some people may have noticed on the package some extra room,” she said with a chuckle. “There is some extra room on that package and I think you might expect we will have more than eight cores.”

Of course, this isn't concrete confirmation, but it does add fuel to the speculation. 

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332205/amd/amd-ceo-lisa-su-interview-ryzen-raytracing-radeon.html

 


Please tag me if you need assistance or if you want me to contribute to a topic 

 

ASUS RoG STRIX GL502VM

Intel Core i7 7700HQ | GeForce GTX 1060 6GB | 16GB DDR4-2133 | 128GB SanDisk M.2 SATA SSD + 1TB 7200RPM Hitachi HDD | 15.6" 1080p IPS monitor @ 60Hz w/ G-SYNC | Windows 10 64-bit

 

Samsung Galaxy Note8 SM-N950F

Exynos 8895 (4x Mongoose @ 2.3GHz, 4x Cortex A53 @ 1.7GHz)ARM Mali G71 MP20 | 6GB LPDDR4 | 64GB Samsung NAND flash w/ UFS 2.1 dual-lane controller + 128GB SanDisk C10 UHS-I microSD | 6.3" 1440p "Infinity Display" AMOLED | Android Nougat 7.1.1 w/ Samsung Experience 8.5

Link to post
Share on other sites

Beat me to posting the PCWorld article, but have this Anandtech one about NO chiplet APU, at least not for this generation.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

 

Quote

AMD stated that, at this time, there will be no version of the current Matisse chiplet layout where one of those chiplets will be graphics. We were told that there will be Zen 2 processors with integrated graphics, presumably coming out much later after the desktop processors, but built in a different design. Ultimately APUs are both mobile first as well as lower cost parts (usually), so different design decisions will have to be made in order to support that market.

 

This doesn't rule out a future processor using chiplet graphics, this is just for Matisse.

 


Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Ryzen rig: Asrock B450 ITX, R5 3600, Noctua D9L, G.SKill TridentZ 3000C14 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, WD Green 240GB SSD, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, porina said:

Beat me to posting the PCWorld article, but have this Anandtech one about NO chiplet APU, at least not for this generation.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

 

 

Yeah, the no APU Chiplets was a little surprising, but they found the code for the GPUID on the product. It's the last of the Vega GPUs. My guess is that, when they needed to make design decisions for 7nm APUs, some part of the Zen2 or Navi design simply wasn't ready, so they went monolithic. (Probably Navi, actually.) That's actually the biggest news, on that front, that we've gotten.

 

Now, for as expensive as 7nm designs are, the monolithic APU seems strange, but AMD's APUs have really, really long lives. They'll be putting them in embedded 4K devices for probably another decade. Thus, I can see the business case for the move.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Now, for as expensive as 7nm designs are, the monolithic APU seems strange, but AMD's APUs have really, really long lives. They'll be putting them in embedded 4K devices for probably another decade. Thus, I can see the business case for the move.

Monolithic still makes sense for the lowest cost end, but I was kinda hoping for a chiplet based higher end APU where cost isn't as much a primary concern.

 

For those who have time to spare, how much "GPU" could you fit in a chiplet size area anyway based on what we know? Did they release die shots for VII? Shall have to have a look... edit: best I can do is find shots for MI50 which is what the VII is speculated to be cut down from. I make the chiplet size approx. 1/4 that of the MI50. Ram bandwidth would really suck I guess if it has to share with the cores...


Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Ryzen rig: Asrock B450 ITX, R5 3600, Noctua D9L, G.SKill TridentZ 3000C14 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, WD Green 240GB SSD, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
8 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

eah, the no APU Chiplets was a little surprising, but they found the code for the GPUID on the product. It's the last of the Vega GPUs. My guess is that, when they needed to make design decisions for 7nm APUs, some part of the Zen2 or Navi design simply wasn't ready, so they went monolithic. (Probably Navi, actually.) That's actually the biggest news, on that front, that we've gotten.

Actually I just realised something: the Ryzen 3000G APUs are supposedly on Zen+. Just like how the first but 2000G CPUs were on Zen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, porina said:

Monolithic still makes sense for the lowest cost end, but I was kinda hoping for a chiplet based higher end APU where cost isn't as much a primary concern.

 

For those who have time to spare, how much "GPU" could you fit in a chiplet size area anyway based on what we know? Did they release die shots for VII? Shall have to have a look...

Radeon 7 is a 331mm2 die. With more transistors than the Vega 14nm version, with a 486mm2 die. So they took around a ~30% area shrink moving to 7nm. The 14nm APUs are 210mm2 dies, so even taking the same shrink as Vega makes them a ~150mm2 die.  We're expecting far more than just a shrink, however. Expect more CUs in the GPU and probably an 8 core CPU design.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

Actually I just realised something: the Ryzen 3000G APUs are supposedly on Zen+. Just like how the first but 2000G CPUs were on Zen.

Correct. All of AMD's 2019 products are going to be 3000 series branded. Intel does the same thing with Mobile, actually having 6th through 9th gen parts under "8th Gen".

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Correct. All of AMD's 2019 products are going to be 3000 series branded. Intel does the same thing with Mobile, actually having 6th through 9th gen parts under "8th Gen".

which means Zen+ on chiplets would basically be Threadripper 2000, LOL

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Radeon 7 is a 331mm2 die. With more transistors than the Vega 14nm version, with a 486mm2 die. So they took around a ~30% area shrink moving to 7nm. The 14nm APUs are 210mm2 dies, so even taking the same shrink as Vega makes them a ~150mm2 die.  We're expecting far more than just a shrink, however. Expect more CUs in the GPU and probably an 8 core CPU design.

I was looking at a hypothetical chiplet APU. not monolithic. Edited into my last post, I came to conclusion that chiplet is approx 1/4 the area of VII die, but what would prevent it from hitting higher performances would be shared system ram bandwidth even if more GPU could be shoehorned in. I think it would be nice to hit GTX 1050 equivalent levels in an APU (sorry, don't know AMD equivalent).


Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Ryzen rig: Asrock B450 ITX, R5 3600, Noctua D9L, G.SKill TridentZ 3000C14 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, WD Green 240GB SSD, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP · Best Answer

someone should make a thread on the CPU updates, lol o_o

5 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

So apparently, in an interview with PCWorld, Lisa Su hinted at the possibility that Ryzen 3xxx may have more cores. 

Of course, this isn't concrete confirmation, but it does add fuel to the speculation. 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332205/amd/amd-ceo-lisa-su-interview-ryzen-raytracing-radeon.html

30 minutes ago, porina said:

Beat me to posting the PCWorld article, but have this Anandtech one about NO chiplet APU, at least not for this generation.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, porina said:

I was looking at a hypothetical chiplet APU. not monolithic. Edited into my last post, I came to conclusion that chiplet is approx 1/4 the area of VII die, but what would prevent it from hitting higher performances would be shared system ram bandwidth even if more GPU could be shoehorned in. I think it would be nice to hit GTX 1050 equivalent levels in an APU (sorry, don't know AMD equivalent).

A 20 CU Vega APU would have a faster GPU than a 1050, but memory would be the issue. We know that because there are 20 CU vega parts around with Apple and that Intel-collab. Those, however, have HBM. Unless AMD drops a shocking development on us, they won't have HBM on their APUs. WAY too expensive, unless it was actually HBM1 or something.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

A 20 CU Vega APU would have a faster GPU than a 1050, but memory would be the issue. We know that because there are 20 CU vega parts around with Apple and that Intel-collab. Those, however, have HBM. Unless AMD drops a shocking development on us, they won't have HBM on their APUs. WAY too expensive, unless it was actually HBM1 or something.

1/4 of VII (assuming it scales that perfectly) would be 15CU, pretty close to RX 560 which in a search is 1050 ball park? On the missing ram bandwidth, dual channel 3200 is ball park 50GB/s, compared to RX560's 112, so quite a shortfall there. Blob of L4 in IO die could help out, Crystal Well style.


Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Ryzen rig: Asrock B450 ITX, R5 3600, Noctua D9L, G.SKill TridentZ 3000C14 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, WD Green 240GB SSD, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, porina said:

1/4 of VII (assuming it scales that perfectly) would be 15CU, pretty close to RX 560 which in a search is 1050 ball park? On the missing ram bandwidth, dual channel 3200 is ball park 50GB/s, compared to RX560's 112, so quite a shortfall there. Blob of L4 in IO die could help out, Crystal Well style.

APUs are cheap products, generally, but it would be interesting to see AMD put a 2-stack of HBM1 on there. Somehow. 2 Gb of HBM1 would make every AMD APU laptop into a gaming laptop. I wonder if AMD has thought about it for the higher-SKU APUs. No clue if the HBM1 prices would make sense for it, however. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:46 AM, leadeater said:

omputex is where you will see more details, product specifications and a more complete showing of what they really do have.

I hope so....I was really hoping Zen2 would beat the 9900k hands down If they could get 8c/16t to ~10% faster, then they could price it ~10-15% lower than the 9900k and make a decent ROI, they might feel that they have to beat intel to the better performance.

 

With radeon VII I think they need to release an 8GB model for 2070 pricing, if they do, it would probably get more sales and might even get a good jump over 2070 performance. 16GB of HBM is just too expensive for most users, and Navi is too far out for some people to wait

 

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:46 AM, leadeater said:

that status has taken some serious knocks due to 10nm though.

With Zen+, there were suggestions that AMD had lower yields than expected, not really sure if it would be AMD or TSMC/GloFo that would take the loss here either. I just really wanna see AMD score a big win for gaming, not just productivity.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/12/2019 at 2:42 AM, Taf the Ghost said:

Radeon 7 is a 331mm2 die. With more transistors than the Vega 14nm version, with a 486mm2 die. So they took around a ~30% area shrink moving to 7nm. The 14nm APUs are 210mm2 dies, so even taking the same shrink as Vega makes them a ~150mm2 die.  We're expecting far more than just a shrink, however. Expect more CUs in the GPU and probably an 8 core CPU design.

Does that die size include the HBM stacks? Because the size of those would’ve stayed the same so the shrink on the actual GPU would’ve been more drastic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

Does that die size include the HBM stacks? Because the size of those would’ve stayed the same so the shrink on the actual GPU would’ve been more drastic.

No, that's just the die itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×