Windows 10 May Reserve Another 7GB For Updates.

[Delicieuxz]

Just get Windows 10 LTSC. All problems with Windows 10 updates are then solved.

[Uttamattamakin]

50 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I don't know why you'd be buying a Windows 10 device with only 32GB of storage in the first place anyway, but I agree.

 

Even as a boot SSD, I'd still want 120GB minimum.

 A lot  of people such as of students simply cannot afford a better computer. 

 

Especially if they bought a computer with 32 GB of storage over the last year and now they are about to be not just weak but effectively obsolete. 

 

A device like this one was a really good value for a college student, had/has? better IO than a surface pro.  

 

Funny thing that such a simple device has USBC and my surface pro does not. 

[Uttamattamakin]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

Get Windows 10 LTSC. All problems with Windows Update are then solved.

Maybe it is time for some people to consider Linux.  It has always been strongest as an alternative for artificially obsolete computers. 

[GoldenLag]

surprising Windows doesnt allready reserve a set amount of space for future updates......

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 hour ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I don't know why you'd be buying a Windows 10 device with only 32GB of storage in the first place anyway, but I agree.

 

Even as a boot SSD, I'd still want 120GB minimum.

because a lot of very cheap Windows laptops, like $200 cheap, come with 32gb. 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Maybe now manufactures will stop making system with 32GB of storage, and put in 64GB instead allowing more storage.

But anyway, from my understanding on this, it can use external storage instead. Meaning, if you insert a microSD card (say), it will use that, instead of your main storage for update. (update: Doesn't look like, but with Storage Sense you can merge that microSD card with your system drive. So you still have 1 drive, but it will be larger.)

Since when do manufacturers ever worry about the min requirements of the OS?

2 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

If 7gb is a huge amount for you, time for an update!

Usually I would agree but I occasionally run out as I have a 120G C drive, even though I have another 5TB It doesn't seem to take long for all the "temporary" stuff on my desktop to fill it up.

2 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

How about not interrupting us by letting us decide when and what to install? Yeah of course, this seems way more logical. 

Yeah, they did that once and the end result was lots more malware.  Even so called profession IT managers ballsed it up.

 

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

 

i must seriously be the only person that doesn't have these kind of problems the people on this forum complaint about constantly. never have i had windows restart while im in the middle of something, or interrupt anything im doing. maybe that's because i turn my pc off every night. maybe that's the fix for all these problems you keep having?

Isn't it ridiculous how there are so many people with technical issues on a forum of supposedly self proclaimed tech enthusiasts.  

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Usually I would agree but I occasionally run out as I have a 120G C drive, even though I have another 5TB It doesn't seem to take long for all the "temporary" stuff on my desktop to fill it up.

You should have at least 10Gb free for swap usage though. 120Gb is cutting it a bit thin, I used to have one for a gaming computer, with a 1.5Tb hard drive, just kept the OS and a few games on the ssd. Still I think time for an upgrade!

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Isn't it ridiculous how there are so many people with technical issues on a forum of supposedly self proclaimed tech enthusiasts.  

Sometimes the hardest solutions require the simplest of thinking, but with a fresh look. Every time I lose my keys its like that. 

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

should, yes, but they dont. people can fill up their drives really fast and the majority of people dont know that you're supposed to leaved x amount free.

 

i must seriously be the only person that doesn't have these kind of problems the people on this forum complaint about constantly. never have i had windows restart while im in the middle of something, or interrupt anything im doing. maybe that's because i turn my pc off every night. maybe that's the fix for all these problems you keep having?

The cardinal sin: Leaving Windows running for long periods of time. (Seriously, that's when the cracks start to show)

[mr moose]

41 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

You should have at least 10Gb free for swap usage though. 120Gb is cutting it a bit thin, I used to have one for a gaming computer, with a 1.5Tb hard drive, just kept the OS and a few games on the ssd. Still I think time for an upgrade!

My SSD is 8 years old.  According to the various health check software it is still in immaculate condition.   I just need to be more diligent in moving stuff from the desktop once I'm done with it.

 

41 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Sometimes the hardest solutions require the simplest of thinking, but with a fresh look. Every time I lose my keys its like that. 

Or in regard to this thread, just be a little less over the top and let updates do their job as intended and you well have less issues.  Some of the reasoning people give for having issues is more telling of their agenda than their skill at using a computer.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

My SSD is 8 years old.  According to the various health check software it is still in immaculate condition.   I just need to be more diligent in moving stuff from the desktop once I'm done with it.

Thats true, what helped me was DaisyDisk that let me saw the largest files, in order, on my system. Not sure if theres a PC version. 

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Or in regard to this thread, just be a little less over the top and let updates do their job as intended and you well have less issues.  Some of the reasoning people give for having issues is more telling of their agenda than their skill at using a computer.

Thats true. 

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Yeah, they did that once and the end result was lots more malware.  Even so called profession IT managers ballsed it up.

It shouldn't make a difference for them. Companies, if they know what they're doing, have group policies, so work PCs won't dl anything unless approved by admins. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Bouzoo said:

It shouldn't make a difference for them. Companies, if they know what they're doing, have group policies, so work PCs won't dl anything unless approved by admins. 

I know it shouldn't,  but it does and did.  That's why wannacry took out so many businesses and government organisations.  Had those systems been updated wanna cry would have been barely a blip in the background.   The fact of the matter is no one was updating and it was causing issues, that is why MS made updates mandatory.

[LAwLz]

Just some random thoughts.

 

1) Microsoft pushing for really cheap Windows laptops was a mistake. The reason why we have Windows devices with 32GB of storage is because Microsoft got worried when Chromebooks started taking over the market. 200 dollar Chromebooks were like the top 6 out of 10 laptops on Amazon for months upon months. As a response Microsoft started working with OEMs to push out 200 dollar Windows machines, making the Windows license free for certain devices and so on, and of course storage is one of those things that got cut.

 

2) Windows is really, really bloated. And before someone goes "if you can't spare 7GB then you need to buy more". I got well over 1TB of SSD storage in my computer, a few TB of HDD storage, and 16 TB of storage in my NAS. I am not short on storage. But my problem here is efficiency. Windows uses a lot of space compared to other operating systems, and it doesn't seem like that storage is utilized very well.

It's like this thread about the Blizzard Launcher. 

 

Trust me, I have 200MB to spare for the Blizzard launcher, but throwing more hardware at bloated, sloppy code should be frowned upon. 

 

 

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Isn't it ridiculous how there are so many people with technical issues on a forum of supposedly self proclaimed tech enthusiasts.

I don't think it's too strange.

1) LinusTechTips isn't a forum for people with lots of computer knowledge. It's mostly people who like drooling over consumer electronics without really understanding how things work on a slightly more advanced level.

2) Having problems with Windows is not exactly uncommon, especially for the less tech-literate users. Just because a lot of people on here have issues doesn't mean the average Joe doesn't have issues.

3) A lot of "tech enthusiasts" are more likely to mess with things they don't fully understand, compared to the average Joe. My grandma is so afraid to do anything wrong that she doesn't even want to install a program herself. The risk of her messing something up is not that big because she doesn't do much on her computer. My nephew on the other hand seems to not be able to keep his hands away from changing settings just to see what happens. He is a bigger risk than my grandma.

 

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I know it shouldn't,  but it does and did.  That's why wannacry took out so many businesses and government organisations.  Had those systems been updated wanna cry would have been barely a blip in the background.   The fact of the matter is no one was updating and it was causing issues, that is why MS made updates mandatory.

Updates are not mandatory for business and government organisations. Updates are only mandatory on the Home and Pro versions of Windows. 

As for "no one was updating", I still haven't seen any evidence that the average Joe went into the control panel and disabled updates, despite the warnings that appeared when doing so.

To me, it seems like it was more along the lines of "90% of our normal users already update automatically" so let's make it mandatory".

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Thats true, what helped me was DaisyDisk that let me saw the largest files, in order, on my system. Not sure if theres a PC version. 

Thats true. 

I found space sniffer to be very good,  although since installing the second 3TB hdd and setting all the game installs and work to it, its really only the desktop that gets cluttered.

[Bouzoo]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

I know it shouldn't,  but it does and did.  That's why wannacry took out so many businesses and government organisations.  Had those systems been updated wanna cry would have been barely a blip in the background.   The fact of the matter is no one was updating and it was causing issues, that is why MS made updates mandatory.

But, again, it won't make a difference. Correct me if I'm wrong, but MS can't force updates if the group policies say otherwise. At least I have not seen that happening yet. So them forcing updates shouldn't make a difference unless you are a small company or a private customer, let alone a government organisation which definitely has admins. 

[porina]

3 hours ago, Arika S said:

maybe that's because i turn my pc off every night. maybe that's the fix for all these problems you keep having?

You turn your computer off? What a concept...

44 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

The cardinal sin: Leaving Windows running for long periods of time. (Seriously, that's when the cracks start to show)

If it wasn't for Windows Update or competitive overclocking, I can get uptime without reboots for months. 

 

 

I think that sums up part of the problem. There are lots of different ways Windows can be used, and MS' attempt to force a "one size fits all" means they annoy different people in different ways. On mosy of my systems 7GB is neither here nor there, but I do have a 32GB nettop. Not too worried about that either, on past major Win10 version upgrades, it just requests I plug in a USB stick to continue with the update.

[Sfekke]

32GBs of flash storage?

I have a cheap 'o' Windows tablet with 16 :'D

 

Okay but more on topic :

Microsoft, what the f*ck?

I still hope for a hybrid Enterprise LTSB build geared towards the tech savvy and gamers.

 

Call it "Windows X" or "Windows G"

I'd happily pay 200 Euros to get that and be free of the crap I put up with daily nowadays.

 

Remove all metro apps and make the windows store something you can disable but also keep if you want and give us the option to install new metro apps as we please.

keep I on a build on windows that is stable and keep patching that for five years at a time before a new feature update. Hell make us pay 50 Euros to do that upgrade every five years.

 

that's how sick I am of windows 10 and it's "updates"

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, I'm on the bus while typing this so cannot fully concentrate.

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think it's too strange.

1) LinusTechTips isn't a forum for people with lots of computer knowledge. It's mostly people who like drooling over consumer electronics without really understanding how things work on a slightly more advanced level.

Then they shouldn't be telling people the problem with windows should they?

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

2) Having problems with Windows is not exactly uncommon, especially for the less tech-literate users. Just because a lot of people on here have issues doesn't mean the average Joe doesn't have issues.

That doesn't change what I said, in fact it does little more than illustrate that issues occur,  but some people carry on like Bill gates just broke into their house and killed their dog.

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

3) A lot of "tech enthusiasts" are more likely to mess with things they don't fully understand, compared to the average Joe. My grandma is so afraid to do anything wrong that she doesn't even want to install a program herself. The risk of her messing something up is not that big because she doesn't do much on her computer. My nephew on the other hand seems to not be able to keep his hands away from changing settings just to see what happens. He is a bigger risk than my grandma.

And that re-enforces my point, these people carry on like its MS fault because they broke it doing something they don't understand.  Then they come on these forums and pontificate whats wrong with windows.

 

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

Updates are not mandatory for business and government organisations. Updates are only mandatory on the Home and Pro versions of Windows. 

As for "no one was updating", I still haven't seen any evidence that the average Joe went into the control panel and disabled updates, despite the warnings that appeared when doing so.

You need to look more closely as where people are advising to disable updates all the time. Fact of the matter is there were patches for wannacry out months before it hit, had people been updating it wouldn't have been an issue.  In fact if you google windows updates the vast majority of results are people complaining about forced updates.

People actually go out of their way to stop updates.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/26/windows-10-how-to-stop-forced-updates/#7fe999b446f6

https://wiki.nus.edu.sg/display/DA/How+to+Turn+off+Windows+Updates+in+Windows+10

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/turn-off-windows-update-in-windows-10

https://www.easeus.com/todo-backup-resource/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-automatically-update.html

 

Hell even on these forums you see people claiming they aren't leaving windows seven because of updates.

 

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

To me, it seems like it was more along the lines of "90% of our normal users already update automatically" so let's make it mandatory".

When nearly every single person news article is complaining and asking for a way to turn it off I would say majority of people had it disabled. 

 

On the first page of a "windows update settings" search:

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&ei=E781XKH9EcW28QWknJ-4Dg&q=windows+update+settings&oq=windows+update+settings&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.35773.44415..44526...1.0..0.335.1972.0j3j5j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0i131i67j0i131.UDRoraU4GeE

 

It seems a lot of people are interested in how to turn updates off.  

[jagdtigger]

43 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The fact of the matter is no one was updating and it was causing issues, that is why MS made updates mandatory.

Yeah, because no-one can admin cmd and 'sc delete ServiceName'(or failing that delete it in the registry).... This automatic update system is just a way to force their crap onto ppl, especially those big updates that reset all of our tweaks and reinstalls a bunch of crapware.

[mr moose]

6 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Yeah, because no-one can admin cmd and 'sc delete ServiceName'(or failing that delete it in the registry).... This automatic update system is just a way to force their crap onto ppl, especially those big updates that reset all of our tweaks and reinstalls a bunch of crapware.

 

How about you actually address the issue.   

[porina]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

People actually go out of their way to stop updates.

People may have different reasons for doing so, some good, some bad. I think a lot of it is from the potential disruption an update has, even if it goes smoothly. On high spec systems you might not notice a difference, but on lower spec ones, they can be practically unusable while the "background" update is in progress, and it can take a while.

 

Then the forced reboot, affecting a different set of users. If you turn the system on and off regularly, it'll just hitch along on one of those, and the only thing you notice is a longer than normal shutdown. In my use case, I have PCs loaded 24/7. I have no reason to shut them down frequently. The worst thing that can happen for me is WU to go, I'll reboot to install these updates since no one is using the system right now... despite the 100% continuous CPU usage. I'd be a lot happier if MS could do updates so that most don't need a reboot. I know, a lot easier said than done. For those that do, I want to do it on my terms. When I say, of my own free will. Currently that means my best solution to manage my home network is to firewall off MS Update servers. I manually open the ports when it suits me to do the update.

[LAwLz]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Then they shouldn't be telling people the problem with windows should they?

Not sure what you mean. Who are "they" in this conversation? And in what way are they telling people "the problem with Windows"? There are severe problems with Windows. A lot that I don't think the average user on here would understand. But that does not mean they won't experience said issues, and raising awareness of it is good so that Microsoft may fix those problems.

 

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

That doesn't change what I said, in fact it does little more than illustrate that issues occur,  but some people carry on like Bill gates just broke into their house and killed their dog.

I think that's a classic case of "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction".

A lot of people on this forum are very eager to tell everyone else that there is nothing wrong with Windows, or that any issues that occur are the faults of the users. When that happens, the displeased users who are having issues will be more annoyed and more willing to post about it.

When I posted that an update reset all my default programs and privacy settings, GoodBytes called me a liar and that I was the only one who had issues. Then the day after several articles and users reported the same thing, and it seemed like it happened for everyone who installed the update. Have a vague memory that even Microsoft said that it was an issue and they were working on it, but that might be wrong.

 

19 minutes ago, mr moose said:

ou need to look more closely as where people are advising to disable updates all the time. Fact of the matter is there were patches for wannacry out months before it hit, had people been updating it wouldn't have been an issue.  In fact if you google windows updates the vast majority of results are people complaining about forced updates.

 People actually go out of their way to stop updates.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/08/26/windows-10-how-to-stop-forced-updates/#7fe999b446f6

https://wiki.nus.edu.sg/display/DA/How+to+Turn+off+Windows+Updates+in+Windows+10

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/turn-off-windows-update-in-windows-10

https://www.easeus.com/todo-backup-resource/how-to-stop-windows-10-from-automatically-update.html

 

Hell even on these forums you see people claiming they aren't leaving windows seven because of updates.

I think you're confusing things here.

1) Windows 10 have had far more widespread issues related to updates than Windows 7. That's because of the rolling release and rapid development model Microsoft now uses. What used to happen maybe once every 2-3 years now happens twice a year. More issues relating to updates = more people who want to turn it off.

2) The people looking up guides, editing the registry and such things are not the average Joe. The people turning off updates in Windows 10 may fit into that 10% who did turn off updates in Windows 7. Just because you can find guides on Google on how to turn off updates in Windows, does not mean it was a widespread issue where clueless people turned off updates in Windows 7 for no reason.

3) The update model changed from Windows 7 to Windows 10. You used to be able to install some updates but not others. Now that it's all or nothing, people who used to have partial protection may now choose no protection. I know I am in that camp.

 

24 minutes ago, mr moose said:

When nearly every single person news article is complaining and asking for a way to turn it off I would say majority of people had it disabled. 

  

On the first page of a "windows update settings" search:

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&ei=E781XKH9EcW28QWknJ-4Dg&q=windows+update+settings&oq=windows+update+settings&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.35773.44415..44526...1.0..0.335.1972.0j3j5j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0i131i67j0i131.UDRoraU4GeE

 

It seems a lot of people are interested in how to turn updates off.  

Search for "how to change CPU" and you will get a lot of results too. Should we use that as an indicator that most people are swapping out the CPU in their computers? No. That's something only a small minority of people does, despite it having lots of hits on Google.

[mr moose]

Just now, porina said:

People may have different reasons for doing so, some good, some bad. I think a lot of it is from the potential disruption an update has, even if it goes smoothly. On high spec systems you might not notice a difference, but on lower spec ones, they can be practically unusable while the "background" update is in progress, and it can take a while.

 

Then the forced reboot, affecting a different set of users. If you turn the system on and off regularly, it'll just hitch along on one of those, and the only thing you notice is a longer than normal shutdown. In my use case, I have PCs loaded 24/7. I have no reason to shut them down frequently. The worst thing that can happen for me is WU to go, I'll reboot to install these updates since no one is using the system right now... despite the 100% continuous CPU usage. I'd be a lot happier if MS could do updates so that most don't need a reboot. I know, a lot easier said than done. For those that do, I want to do it on my terms. When I say, of my own free will. Currently that means my best solution to manage my home network is to firewall off MS Update servers. I manually open the ports when it suits me to do the update.

 

Majority of them are because of the inconvenience.  In nearly all my experiences this is the first reason people give.  However the reason is moot if you don't update then lose everything to malware.  As I and a few others have said, if you power cycle your pc regularly and have updates all set to recommended (including active hours set) and don't mess with it, those forced restarts and update installs are very rare.  I had one last year. 

 

This is a good read:

https://www.troyhunt.com/dont-tell-people-to-turn-off-windows-update-just-dont/

 

Let's be clear here, I am not trying to proclaim the update system is good, far from it, but that the attitude some people have toward it is amateurish at best and childish at worst. 

 

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Not sure what you mean. Who are "they" in this conversation? And in what way are they telling people "the problem with Windows"? There are severe problems with Windows. A lot that I don't think the average user on here would understand. But that does not mean they won't experience said issues, and raising awareness of it is good so that Microsoft may fix those problems.

 

I think that's a classic case of "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction".

A lot of people on this forum are very eager to tell everyone else that there is nothing wrong with Windows, or that any issues that occur are the faults of the users. When that happens, the displeased users who are having issues will be more annoyed and more willing to post about it.

When I posted that an update reset all my default programs and privacy settings, GoodBytes called me a liar and that I was the only one who had issues. Then the day after several articles and users reported the same thing, and it seemed like it happened for everyone who installed the update. Have a vague memory that even Microsoft said that it was an issue and they were working on it, but that might be wrong.

 

I think you're confusing things here.

1) Windows 10 have had far more widespread issues related to updates than Windows 7. That's because of the rolling release and rapid development model Microsoft now uses. What used to happen maybe once every 2-3 years now happens twice a year. More issues relating to updates = more people who want to turn it off.

2) The people looking up guides, editing the registry and such things are not the average Joe. The people turning off updates in Windows 10 may fit into that 10% who did turn off updates in Windows 7. Just because you can find guides on Google on how to turn off updates in Windows, does not mean it was a widespread issue where clueless people turned off updates in Windows 7 for no reason.

3) The update model changed from Windows 7 to Windows 10. You used to be able to install some updates but not others. Now that it's all or nothing, people who used to have partial protection may now choose no protection. I know I am in that camp.

 

Search for "how to change CPU" and you will get a lot of results too. Should we use that as an indicator that most people are swapping out the CPU in their computers? No. That's something only a small minority of people does, despite it having lots of hits on Google.

what are you talking about, it was a pretty simple premise: idiots don't know what they are doing, do the best they can to avoid updates, have something go wrong as a result and try to tell every it was windows fault.   Then they come on here and make stupid reasons up for needing their pc on for 16 weeks straight and completely ignore the fact that not updating leads to serious issues, not just for the end user but for everyone else too.

[suicidalfranco]

28 minutes ago, mr moose said:

On the first page of a "windows update settings" search:

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&ei=E781XKH9EcW28QWknJ-4Dg&q=windows+update+settings&oq=windows+update+settings&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.35773.44415..44526...1.0..0.335.1972.0j3j5j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0i131i67j0i131.UDRoraU4GeE

if this is your argument, I guess people at conservapedia may actually be correct  then XD

Spoiler

Spoiler

[...] Beginning in 2016, the NFL has allowed displays of defiance against the National Anthem. Search on "demonic" and "NFL" on the internet and see nearly 4 million websites discussing it.

 

source: www.conservapedia.com/Unplug_the_NFL