Push/Pull setup

[Tristerin]

This weekend I modded my Ryzen rigs case to put my CM Lite 120mm AIO as push pull config rear exhaust instead of push top exhaust.  Thermals dropped decently, using the PRE-EXISTING 120mm exhaust fan, its a Rosewill...cheapo Im sure (I can kick it up to 1800 RPM in bios but its pretty loud, I leave it at 900rpm).  The fan that comes with the CM lite is advertised as "120mm AIR BALANCE FAN DESIGN" - Im not sure that means static pressure, or what.

 

First question - thermals are fine (45c under full load for 1 hour...the blessings of a 65w TDP processor), but Im always looking for optimal and love tinkering.  Would it behoove me to replace both fans with something specifically designed for static pressure push pull config - or is the current setup just fine?  Im not technically looking to achieve better temps on this rig, just really not wanting to burn up either fan prematurely I guess is the real reason.  If one is causing the other to work harder, or not get the correct airflow than please let me know.

 

Also more of a Cooling Generic question - Im now running 2 intake 120mm, 2 TOP exhaust 120mm, and rear exhaust now 2x 120mm push pull config.  So Im negative pressure, but is the top two fans (not impeded by a radiator etc so I actually added a foam screen so they were having to work a little to exhaust to try to balance the straight up pull of being unimpeded) going to "choke" off any air going through the rear exhaust?  Volume wise I don't think its possible but just curious (if I don't have to tinker to find out, wife is happier lololol) as I know Im not creating dead spaces.  Am I okay, should I just remove that foam screen and let the top exhausts do work?

[aisle9]

What are your CPU temps right now? If it's peaking below 80C, the only reason you'd need to change the setup would be pursuit of a higher overclock or lower noise. 

[Tristerin]

5 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

What are your CPU temps right now? If it's peaking below 80C, the only reason you'd need to change the setup would be pursuit of a higher overclock or lower noise. 

Pursuit of silence, and best thermals.  Without burning up a fan prematurely.

 

My thermals are amazeballs.  (65w TDP CPU is nothing for a 120mm AIO imho) 45c 1 hour Prime 95.  At 2 hours 46c - pretty sure its lower than 50c in this current setup prior to reaching thermal equilibrium but I don't have the hours to torture it to find out. 

 

My question is - if the fans are producing the thermals I want - is there a chance Im stressing my fans in a way that could be detrimental to fan life - where I could replace and have better longevity, and potentially better thermals and sound.  If I am stressing the fans (specifically the rear exhaust as its a cheapo...not afraid to lose it, just don't want to burn it up if I don't have to) - Having the two current fans I do has achieved my thermals.  Now to find out if I am going to bork a fan, or if pairing fans is more optimal.

 

 

[aisle9]

9 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Pursuit of silence, and best thermals.  Without burning up a fan prematurely.

 

My thermals are amazeballs.  (65w TDP CPU is nothing for a 120mm AIO imho) 45c 1 hour Prime 95.  At 2 hours 46c - pretty sure its lower than 50c in this current setup prior to reaching thermal equilibrium but I don't have the hours to torture it to find out. 

 

My question is - if the fans are producing the thermals I want - is there a chance Im stressing my fans in a way that could be detrimental to fan life - where I could replace and have better longevity, and potentially better thermals and sound.  If I am stressing the fans (specifically the rear exhaust as its a cheapo...not afraid to lose it, just don't want to burn it up if I don't have to) - Having the two current fans I do has achieved my thermals.  Now to find out if I am going to bork a fan, or if pairing fans is more optimal.

No, you're not. Fans will become unusable over time, but as long as you're not running them full blast all the time or doing rapid start-stop cycles on a regular basis, you're not hurrying that along. Usually a bearing goes long before the fan motor itself does, outside of circumstances like a PSU failure that sends a surge through the system. Your temps do seem surprisngly low. My 1700 never stayed that low, even at stock, and I had a Cryorig H5 Ultimate on it. Have you verified with multiple programs that those temps are accurate?

 

Which brings me to my next point: 120mm AIOs are only really ideal in SFF cases that can't take a 240mm AIO or any sort of significant air cooler. The pump on AIOs makes noise. If you're in pursuit of silence and your case is big enough, I'd highly recommend switching the AIO out entirely in favor of a bigger tower cooler like an H5 Ultimate (or something of similar size with a low RPM fan). It'll run cooler and quieter.

[Tristerin]

35 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

No, you're not. Fans will become unusable over time, but as long as you're not running them full blast all the time or doing rapid start-stop cycles on a regular basis, you're not hurrying that along. Usually a bearing goes long before the fan motor itself does, outside of circumstances like a PSU failure that sends a surge through the system. Your temps do seem surprisngly low. My 1700 never stayed that low, even at stock, and I had a Cryorig H5 Ultimate on it. Have you verified with multiple programs that those temps are accurate?

 

Which brings me to my next point: 120mm AIOs are only really ideal in SFF cases that can't take a 240mm AIO or any sort of significant air cooler. The pump on AIOs makes noise. If you're in pursuit of silence and your case is big enough, I'd highly recommend switching the AIO out entirely in favor of a bigger tower cooler like an H5 Ultimate (or something of similar size with a low RPM fan). It'll run cooler and quieter.

I use Prime 95 torture blend test and when I want a full system F you I run Unigine Heaven in the background at the same time to have the GPU heat buildup as well.  On the temps mentioned above, this weekend was 2 hours Prime 95 only, hit 46c.  My ambient room temp was 19c-20c at the time.  Im a big "fan" of fans so I typically spend more time finding that perfect balance of as cold as it can get, and diminishing returns.  Im using HWMonitor, HWinfo, iCUE, AMD Overdrive to verify the CPU temps.  They are real.  Was yours the X version?  Those are 95w TDP if I recall correctly.

 

I agree about the 120mm AIO in most situations, however with this very low wattage CPU, its perfect.  The reason I went 120mm at the time was budget, my wifes PC fried right before the Holidays in 2016 and it was on sale for $24 shipped.  I feel compelled not at all to swap to anything bigger, due to the thermal limits Im hitting.  My 240mm H100i GTX on my FX 8350 however is just enough due to that TDP, I actually would rather go much bigger on that one.

Also in my case, the case I have for my Ryzen supports a 240mm AIO on top mount but when I was reading reviews half of the exhaust is covered by a shroud, so that was also the kicker going 120mm (had already got the case was in transit) AIO.

 

So on to the pump situation - agreed, it was actually a lot louder than I wanted when I had it top mounted, now that its rear exhaust mounted I either moved some air bubble around or something because its fairly quiet at least Im not getting any gurgling going through it now.

 

Since Ive gone AIO its been real hard to convince myself to go back.  However I think on my personal next build I may try air with the Noctua or similar D15 setup (my massive case can support near anything).  I experienced Thermal Equilibrium on the 240mm AIO recently when messing with Overclocks and was damn surprised (I did heat it up multiple times, for multiple sittings at 81c+.  My fan curve, albeit silent, had to ramp up to the 80-100% usage range = jet engine due to these temps not falling during continued use, they just stayed HOT.  Had to have PC off for an hour+ to get temps manageable again.  Something air cooling wont experience - ordered some Kryonaut before I continue in that journey LOL)

[Tristerin]

@aisle9 also thank you for the responses, I feel better about leaving it as is and not sinking 20-40 bucks into better fans

[aisle9]

24 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

I use Prime 95 torture blend test and when I want a full system F you I run Unigine Heaven in the background at the same time to have the GPU heat buildup as well.  On the temps mentioned above, this weekend was 2 hours Prime 95 only, hit 46c.  My ambient room temp was 19c-20c at the time.  Im a big "fan" of fans so I typically spend more time finding that perfect balance of as cold as it can get, and diminishing returns.  Im using HWMonitor, HWinfo, iCUE, AMD Overdrive to verify the CPU temps.  They are real.  Was yours the X version?  Those are 95w TDP if I recall correctly.

 

I agree about the 120mm AIO in most situations, however with this very low wattage CPU, its perfect.  The reason I went 120mm at the time was budget, my wifes PC fried right before the Holidays in 2016 and it was on sale for $24 shipped.  I feel compelled not at all to swap to anything bigger, due to the thermal limits Im hitting.  My 240mm H100i GTX on my FX 8350 however is just enough due to that TDP, I actually would rather go much bigger on that one.

Also in my case, the case I have for my Ryzen supports a 240mm AIO on top mount but when I was reading reviews half of the exhaust is covered by a shroud, so that was also the kicker going 120mm (had already got the case was in transit) AIO.

 

So on to the pump situation - agreed, it was actually a lot louder than I wanted when I had it top mounted, now that its rear exhaust mounted I either moved some air bubble around or something because its fairly quiet at least Im not getting any gurgling going through it now.

 

Since Ive gone AIO its been real hard to convince myself to go back.  However I think on my personal next build I may try air with the Noctua or similar D15 setup (my massive case can support near anything).  I experienced Thermal Equilibrium on the 240mm AIO recently when messing with Overclocks and was damn surprised (I did heat it up multiple times, for multiple sittings at 81c+.  My fan curve, albeit silent, had to ramp up to the 80-100% usage range = jet engine due to these temps not falling during continued use, they just stayed HOT.  Had to have PC off for an hour+ to get temps manageable again.  Something air cooling wont experience - ordered some Kryonaut before I continue in that journey LOL)

A "full system F you". I like that. I might use it. A true "full system F you" would probably involve Kombustor/Furmark and the Prime95 small FFT test, but I'm not sure if that would be an F you or genocide against your entire system.

 

Mine was definitely just a 1700. It's in my wife's PC now, but I can't give you a comparison because the H5 is back in its box and she's using the Wraith Spire. I still really question the accuracy of those 45-50C temps, as a 120mm AIO just isn't capable of doing that on a 1700 under P95 load from what I've seen. For the record, I've gone AIO twice on personal rigs and don't plan to again. I had a Kraken X61 that was really damn nice and a great performer, keeping my i7-4790K to 75C under synthetic load at 1.3V, 4.8GHz, but the pump noise eventually became too annoying. I also had an Enermax Liqtech II 240S. I sent it back the first time because it came with two clicking fans and a radiator that looked like it had been used by the Denver Broncos for punting practice. The second one was fine for about a year in my wife's case with an i7-6700, then I moved it into the 4790K's build and it made it about a month before leaking and killing my Z170MX-Gaming 5, easily the best motherboard I've ever owned. So, yeah, I'm a fan of air coolers that, if they do fail, will just involve buying a new fan, not replacing half your system.

[nick name]

I bought some cheaply priced Corsair SP120L fans from eBay.  I think there is a coin miner pulling them off of AIOs and then selling them.  The fan specs are pictured below.  

[Tristerin]

2 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

A "full system F you". I like that. I might use it. A true "full system F you" would probably involve Kombustor/Furmark and the Prime95 small FFT test, but I'm not sure if that would be an F you or genocide against your entire system.

 

Mine was definitely just a 1700. It's in my wife's PC now, but I can't give you a comparison because the H5 is back in its box and she's using the Wraith Spire. I still really question the accuracy of those 45-50C temps, as a 120mm AIO just isn't capable of doing that on a 1700 under P95 load from what I've seen. For the record, I've gone AIO twice on personal rigs and don't plan to again. I had a Kraken X61 that was really damn nice and a great performer, keeping my i7-4790K to 75C under synthetic load at 1.3V, 4.8GHz, but the pump noise eventually became too annoying. I also had an Enermax Liqtech II 240S. I sent it back the first time because it came with two clicking fans and a radiator that looked like it had been used by the Denver Broncos for punting practice. The second one was fine for about a year in my wife's case with an i7-6700, then I moved it into the 4790K's build and it made it about a month before leaking and killing my Z170MX-Gaming 5, easily the best motherboard I've ever owned. So, yeah, I'm a fan of air coolers that, if they do fail, will just involve buying a new fan, not replacing half your system.

Agreed - I could push it more cause it doesn't lock it up during those two tests running

 

I thought it was odd, but each program reports the same (the only issue I get is when I try to run to many software monitors...some take precedence over others and that leaves some - like HWMonitor - showing 300f max temps LOLOL - so best I can do is keep HWMonitor and iCUE open as they do not conflict, then verify the temps by checking the other softwares during load).  I also keep (see my sig) my FX 8350 ICY cold at stock settings with my fans only running at 40%.  I have all the screenshots (at home, at work atm) showing the start time of workers, end time of the Prime etc to show it out - Im tickled pink by my results (a lot of hours spent moving fans around etc) on both rigs, just now playing in the diminishing returns avenue.

 

I haven't used anything beyond Prime95 to push the CPU...should I try AIDA?  Ive never used it and most say its an extreme over the top test for temps but Im willing to do it if it helps to show what its capable of temp wise.

 

*I should also note - its winter here.  And while I keep my house at 68-70F my PC's are also backed up to an exterior wall, saddled between 2 windows, so the ambient air surrounding the PC's may be chillier at the moment*  Though I have had these temps are slightly higher for some time on my FX

[aisle9]

2 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

I haven't used anything beyond Prime95 to push the CPU...should I try AIDA?  Ive never used it and most say its an extreme over the top test for temps but Im willing to do it if it helps to show what its capable of temp wise.

Every test is a little different. In my experience, RealBench and OCCT have the most effective stress tests. RB in particular has found BSOD errors that didn't show up on any other program, and my belief is that if your PC can handle 8 hours of OCCT, it can handle just about anything. AIDA64 is a good all-around system stress test. I typically use Prime95 to test thermals and not much else, because a Prime95 small FFTs test will cook a PC faster and hotter than anything else readily available. There are plenty of other programs out there, like Cinebench, Kombustor and Intel XTU that do different things and stress in different ways. My typical overclocking tests involve P95, RealBench, OCCT and Cinebench.

[Tristerin]

22 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Every test is a little different. In my experience, RealBench and OCCT have the most effective stress tests. RB in particular has found BSOD errors that didn't show up on any other program, and my belief is that if your PC can handle 8 hours of OCCT, it can handle just about anything. AIDA64 is a good all-around system stress test. I typically use Prime95 to test thermals and not much else, because a Prime95 small FFTs test will cook a PC faster and hotter than anything else readily available. There are plenty of other programs out there, like Cinebench, Kombustor and Intel XTU that do different things and stress in different ways. My typical overclocking tests involve P95, RealBench, OCCT and Cinebench.

Ill have to add those to the desktop.  Soon as the Kryonaut arrives Ill be working on my FX 8350 to 5.0 ghz and was going to use Prime to test its stability (Im a newb overclocker, if I learn and burn this chip it will be worth it lol) and Ill be here with a ton of questions I am sure!