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Windows To Blame For Poor AMD ThreadRipper Performance

BuckGup
1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

Hm, interesting. Is there any info available on it?

Think Windows was VM aware back in like 2008 or 2008 R2 so I'd be falling back on Google Fu to find that type of information. I could try and find something if you'd like but I think we'd have equal chance at finding it.

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13 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

@leadeater Papermaster said that Rome is a UMA design. So, at least to the system memory, it's a unified device.

 

However, to the Scheduler, that isn't quite true. From a scheduler standpoint, a 64c Rome is kind of like an 8 core/128 thread SMT setup. IBM hasn't quite gotten to SMT16, but AMD is functionally there.

Which would make sense because on a higher level, the chiplet design is an evolution of the CPU and Northbridge design, only the Northbridge is now on the same package as the CPU.

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4 hours ago, bitsandpieces said:

Windows to blame??! MICROSOFT didn't develop THREADRIPPER, AMD did - was AMD not aware what they were doing?

It's weird how Windows doesn't work well with threadripper yet threadripper works just fine on Linux. That clearly shows that it is an issue with Windows and not the cpu itself.   

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7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Knowing Microsoft they'll fix it, but only in Windows server.

I'm half expecting them to fix it, but only if you buy the 'Windows 10 Pro for Workstations' edition.  I actually went hunting to see how much it would cost, and it was far less than I expected (found it on CDW for $143.99, I'm half-tempted to buy it).

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2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

I'm half expecting them to fix it, but only if you buy the 'Windows 10 Pro for Workstations' edition.  I actually went hunting to see how much it would cost, and it was far less than I expected (found it on CDW for $143.99, I'm half-tempted to buy it).

Wow that is far less than I was expecting as well.

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25 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Wow that is far less than I was expecting as well.

I wanna 

 

25 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Wow that is far less than I was expecting as well.

I wanna buy it now

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, JustWantTech said:

It's amusing when people think Windows will die just because a bug prevent it from using the full potential of Threadripper.

It's amusing when people think everyone's favorite company to hate will die because of a misstep.

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1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

It's amusing when people think everyone's favorite company to hate will die because of a misstep.

Maybe not now but its definitely one more nail in the coffin ;) .

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1 hour ago, suits said:

Wendell is next level

no, he's clearly level 1

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It's true...cause TR is powerful too. 

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On 1/4/2019 at 7:53 AM, JustWantTech said:

It's amusing when people think Windows will die just because a bug prevent it from using the full potential of Threadripper.

Not one person on this topic said anything like that.

 

On 1/3/2019 at 8:53 PM, Doobeedoo said:

Have yet to watch the vid when I get home, but it's a problem with scheduler and Windows kernel bug no. 

Yes.

 

And although the diagnosis is new, the observation that windows is under-performing here is not. Check below the topic I made 4 months ago

This is mostly a concern for server workloads where every data center has high core count CPUs. Even though it is not their fault AMD should have acknowledged the issue and said they are working with Microsoft on it. It's also such a failure from the tech press to fail to question Microsoft and AMD on it.

 

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On 1/3/2019 at 1:28 PM, bitsandpieces said:

Windows to blame??! MICROSOFT didn't develop THREADRIPPER, AMD did - was AMD not aware what they were doing?

On 1/3/2019 at 1:54 PM, bitsandpieces said:

Probably, maybe?!

 

Hi there guys, we launched a new CPU with these awesome features, but don't use it on Windows ..

Applause all around

 

On 1/4/2019 at 3:23 AM, JustWantTech said:

It's amusing when people think Windows will die just because a bug prevent it from using the full potential of Threadripper.

You do realize it's a CPU scheduler bug right? Would even happen on Intel CPU's probably with more than dual sockets and high core count systems, and AMD is not supposed to delay their schedule because Windows didn't implement a bugfix (or they did, but they did it very poorly) especially because on the targeted market Windows isn't the only OS available. Probably AMD and Microsoft are aware of that but Microsoft is still working on it, as in the last years they have tons of projects to work on

Linux scheduler is a different thing because of it's open nature, could be probably fixed one year or months before as AMD typically works on the linux kernel directly before the release of a product, or just never had such problem because that design was predicted, or even just fixed by someone else (?)
Linux commits into the mainline kernel typically are accepted as long as the quality is acceptable and the changes are present right after that, and after the distro maintainer updates it
Windows? Who knows, they should let access to hardware vendors to the source code, but that could be a very limited, long and complicate procedure, and not for every part of the OS, or just couldn't happen? I still don't think this is something that should be directly fixed by AMD though as is a completely different thing 

I'm sure if this bug was rumored to happen on Intel no one would ever think about blaming them lol

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11 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

I'm sure if this bug was rumored to happen on Intel no one would ever think about blaming them lol

Actually, im certain AMD fanatics, Windows defenders and Intel haters would blame Intel for it.

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5 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Actually, im certain AMD fanatics, Windows defenders and Intel haters would blame Intel for it.

Yea but Intel is known as the company that "Just works" lol 
(- intel fanboys) 

Edited by Guest
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I'm pretty sure right now windows have more important issues to solve.

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1 hour ago, Lukyp said:

You do realize it's a CPU scheduler bug right?

But what changed between 7 and 10 in terms of schedulers? I mean 7 (the supposedly outdated and old OS) was able to handle properly the new ryzen CPU's, 10 on the other hand needed an update... (Actually it would be quite amusing to see a test on 7 vs 10 on one of these beasts, just to see how that "old geezer" handles the situation :D .)

Edited by jagdtigger
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Just now, jagdtigger said:

But what changed between 7 and 10 in terms of schedulers? I mean 7 (the supposedly outdated and old OS) was able to handle properly the new ryzen CPU's, 10 on the other hand needed an update... (Actually it would be quite amusing to see a test on 7 vs 10 on one of these beasts, just to see how that old geezer handles the situation :D .)

The kernel changed, I don't know in detail, but the problem with 7 was just about chipset drivers, where the architecture changed and you would need to install those before installing the whole OS, the same applies on the recent intel CPU's 

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1 hour ago, Lukyp said:

 

You do realize it's a CPU scheduler bug right? Would even happen on Intel CPU's probably with more than dual sockets and high core count systems, and AMD is not supposed to delay their schedule because Windows didn't implement a bugfix (or they did, but they did it very poorly) especially because on the targeted market Windows isn't the only OS available. Probably AMD and Microsoft are aware of that but Microsoft is still working on it, as in the last years they have tons of projects to work on

Linux scheduler is a different thing because of it's open nature, could be probably fixed one year or months before as AMD typically works on the linux kernel directly before the release of a product, or just never had such problem because that that design was predicted, or even just fixed by someone else (?)
Linux commits into the mainline kernel typically are accepted as long as the quality is acceptable and the changes are present right after that, and after the distro maintainer updates it
Windows? Who knows, they should let access to hardware vendors to the source code, but that could be a very limited, long and complicate procedure, and not for every part of the OS, or just couldn't happen? I still don't think this is something that should be directly fixed by AMD though as is a completely different thing 

I'm sure if this bug was rumored to happen on Intel no one would ever think about blaming them lol

I am sure @JustWantTech understands its a windows issue, he was just referring to the stupid comments about the end of windows whenever there is an issue like this one. 

 

However it does make me shake my head a bit when I read some of the other comments in this thread when not only does the OP contains all the information you need to know it is a windows Issue, but basically most of the details where thrashed out on the first page.

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

However it does make me shake my head a bit when I read some of the other comments in this thread when not only does the OP contains all the information you need to know it is a windows Issue, but basically most of the details where thrashed out on the first page.

I stopped reading after the second page after someone said that thing about AMD not implementing the x86 architecture, I'm not even replying them, what has this do to with OP? 

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9 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

I stopped reading after the second page after someone said that thing about AMD not implementing the x86 architecture, I'm not even replying them

well, clearly if you had to implement the 0x86 architecture for every core they would have to make the chip big enough to fit 32 of these architectures in there. It's no wonder they didn't. ?  

 

64 is clearly a smaller number and would physically fit much better from a manufacturing perspective.    

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

well, clearly if you had to implement the 0x86 architecture for every core they would have to make the chip big enough to fit 32 of these architectures in there. It's no wonder they didn't. ?  

 

64 is clearly a smaller number and would physically fit much better from a manufacturing perspective.    

Why aren't we using 16 bits though, we could have even more cores? Damn reptilians

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Just now, Lukyp said:

Why aren't we using 16 bits though, we could have even more cores 

IKR,  these guys at AMD just don't think big enough.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, Lukyp said:

The kernel changed, I don't know in detail, but the problem with 7 was just about chipset drivers, where the architecture changed and you would need to install those before installing the whole OS, the same applies on the recent intel CPU's 

Not even chipset in my case with 1700X, it booted fine but for some reason it wouldnt recognize the USB ports(yes, all drivers were integrated).

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