Intel i7 9700k Constant Turbo Boost in bios

[OliNewman]

Hello everyone!

I've recently upgraded from 5820k to 9700k and was suprised to find out that the CPU is running at between 4600Mhz boost clock in BIOS and windows. As you can probably tell, there isn't much load on the CPU in bios, but somehow, it still thinks it needs the boost. 

Motherboard is Gygabyte Z390m. Bios version F3 (newest). Everything is on auto (if I desable turbo boost) the clock goes down to 3.6. Please advise

[LukeSavenije]

A 9770k? Does that chip even exist?

[NelizMastr]

This is normal. When not used much, or when only one core is needed, the CPU will boost one core to higher speeds and it does the same for more cores when cooling allows. Nothing wrong here, this is how modern Intel CPUs are supposed to run.

[OliNewman]

1 minute ago, NelizMastr said:

This is normal. When not used much, or when only one core is needed, the CPU will boost one core to higher speeds and it does the same for more cores when cooling allows. Nothing wrong here, this is how modern Intel CPUs are supposed to run.

It isn't just boosting one core, its boosting all 8 of them. 

[OliNewman]

4 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

A 9770k? Does that chip even exist?

My bad, just noticed.

[NelizMastr]

Just now, OliNewman said:

It isn't just boosting one core, its boosting all 8 of them. 

And that's a problem because? While your Haswell-E couldn't turbo much with all cores, current Intel CPUs can boost all cores quite high. Your motherboard likely has a feature called MCE, or multi-core enhancement. This essentially overclocks all cores without you knowing. It's free performance, enjoy it  

[OliNewman]

1 minute ago, NelizMastr said:

And that's a problem because? While your Haswell-E couldn't turbo much with all cores, current Intel CPUs can boost all cores quite high. Your motherboard likely has a feature called MCE, or multi-core enhancement. This essentially overclocks all cores without you knowing. It's free performance, enjoy it  

You are right, but, I want to OC it to 5.1 for Arma 3 and rendering, however, I don't want it to run at 5.1 during downloads for example, or at night. I may be wrong, but don't constant high clocks reduce the lifespan of the cpu?

[NelizMastr]

1 minute ago, OliNewman said:

You are right, but, I want to OC it to 5.1 for Arma 3 and rendering, however, I don't want it to run at 5.1 during downloads for example, or at night. I may be wrong, but don't constant high clocks reduce the lifespan of the cpu?

Clock speed doesn't affect a CPU. Only high voltages and temperatures do, but that's a long and slow process (unless you overdo it, like 1.5v through it and running it around 100c often).

[OliNewman]

Just now, NelizMastr said:

Clock speed doesn't affect a CPU. Only high voltages and temperatures do, but that's a long and slow process (unless you overdo it, like 1.5v through it and running it around 100c often).

I see, so just to make sure I understand this correctly, I am free to clock to 5+ without overextending on the voltage front and should not spam intel, gygabyte and forums with help requests on the issue? Nevertheless, why cant it tweak the performance depending on the demand if thats what turbo boost is designed to do?

[OliNewman]

Ok, quick update, not sure whats happening here, but now the cpu clock is jumping all over the place between 1-10% usage.

[Princess Luna]

4 minutes ago, OliNewman said:

.

Are you using Windows "performance" power option?

[OliNewman]

16 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Are you using Windows "performance" power option?

I have already looked at the power options advanced settings and sure, when i changed the maximum, it made a difference, no difference on the minimum tho

[OliNewman]

On 12/14/2018 at 11:20 AM, Princess Cadence said:

Are you using Windows "performance" power option?

As I said before, power settings are irrelevant here. In bios, cpu is running at 4600Mhz in a restored default profile. Disabling turbo boost completely of course brings the change and sets the clock at 3600Mhz. I will be returning the board to Overclockers for this exact reason + 1SATA and 1 Usb 3.0 ports don't work. Hopefully won't encounter the same problem with a new board.

[mxk]

On 12/14/2018 at 3:16 AM, OliNewman said:

.

Wait you're getting a different board?

[OliNewman]

6 minutes ago, mxk. said:

Wait you're getting a different board?

A replacement. I am of the opinion that there's a problem with the board. Ive tried fiddling with bios settings and nothing worked, stayed at 4600Mhz in Bios (at idle in bios). The only things that would change the clock would be core clock (this would lock it at a certain frequency) and disabling turbo (I don't want to have turbo disabled, nor do I want to constantly run all cores at 4.6)

[mxk]

Just now, OliNewman said:

A replacement. I am of the opinion that there's a problem with the board. Ive tried fiddling with bios settings and nothing worked, stayed at 4600Mhz in Bios (at idle in bios). The only things that would change the clock would be core clock (this would lock it at a certain frequency) and disabling turbo (I don't want to have turbo disabled, nor do I want to constantly run all cores at 4.6)

It could be something that could be fixed with a BIOS update. If you're patient it will probably be fixed. Look around and see if there are other people with this issue. 

 

 

[OliNewman]

Just now, mxk. said:

It could be something that could be fixed with a BIOS update. If you're patient it will probably be fixed. Look around and see if there are other people with this issue. 

 

 

It most certainly will, in time. I have read everything there is to read on people's problems with constant turbo and all of it is related to older gen CPU's and for most people the solution was to change the power settings in Windows, in my case, unfortunately, it is irrelevant.

 

Dunno whether to send it back tho, I mean 1 sata port and 1 usb port dysfunction is no big deal, but I will be happier once I am sure that it isn't a fault in the board but a configuration issue.

[mxk]

1 minute ago, OliNewman said:

It most certainly will, in time. I have read everything there is to read on people's problems with constant turbo and all of it is related to older gen CPU's and for most people the solution was to change the power settings in Windows, in my case, unfortunately, it is irrelevant.

 

Dunno whether to send it back tho, I mean 1 sata port and 1 usb port dysfunction is no big deal, but I will be happier once I am sure that it isn't a fault in the board but a configuration issue.

Are you using only a micro atx case? 

[OliNewman]

1 minute ago, mxk. said:

Are you using only a micro atx case? 

Yes, unfortunately. Not planning to change anytime soon, got kind of attached to the form factor

[mxk]

Just now, OliNewman said:

Yes, unfortunately. Not planning to change anytime soon, got kind of attached to the form factor

I love micro atx also. Its dumb that there aren't that many z390 motherboards for matx

[unclewebb]

The energy saving features are disabled when you are in the bios.  You might not like this but your CPU is running exactly as Intel designed it to run.  A different motherboard or different bios version is not going to change anything.  After you boot up, then your Windows settings will take over.   

 

The 9700K uses Intel Turbo Boost 2.0.  The way this works is all active cores at any instant in time are all locked to the exact same multiplier.  When a CPU is lightly loaded, depending on how Windows is setup, the multiplier can be changing hundreds or thousands of times per second.  Monitoring software or a graph that is sampling the CPU once per second is meaningless.

 

The easiest way to minimize power consumption and stress is to enable the C7 C state.  In this state, when a CPU core has something to do, it runs at full speed.  When a core has nothing to do, it is automatically disconnected from the voltage rail and disconnected from the internal clock so the core will be running at 0 MHz and 0 Volts.  Hard to beat that.  Most enthusiasts do not understand C states so they usually disable them.  To me, this makes no sense.  For most workloads, an 8 core CPU does not need to have 8 cores active simultaneously so why not let the CPU manage itself and effectively turn off inactive cores.  CPU core temps, power consumption, etc. will all be reduced anytime the CPU is not fully loaded. 

 

If you do not like the C states, you can use the Windows Balanced power profile with the Minimum processor state set to a low number like 5% so you can watch your CPU slow down when idle.  Modern CPUs become significantly less efficient when slowed down to 800 MHz.  Emabling the C States will result in a more responsive computer with less power consumption compared to using the Balanced power profile to slow down your CPU.

 

The 9700K also supports Speed Shift technology.  This is a far superior way to control the CPU speed compared to the old school SpeedStep method.  

 

Lots of options are available.  You just need to learn how newer CPUs work.  You should check out a program called ThrottleStop.  It lets you enable Speed Shift and you can setup multiple profiles so you can get your CPU running any which way you want.  You can also setup keyboard shortcuts and easily change CPU speeds and profiles on the fly to use as much turbo boost or as little turbo boost as you like.  It is totally up to you.

 

[OliNewman]

On 12/16/2018 at 5:51 AM, unclewebb said:

The energy saving features are disabled when you are in the bios.  You might not like this but your CPU is running exactly as Intel designed it to run.  A different motherboard or different bios version is not going to change anything.  After you boot up, then your Windows settings will take over.   

 

The 9700K uses Intel Turbo Boost 2.0.  The way this works is all active cores at any instant in time are all locked to the exact same multiplier.  When a CPU is lightly loaded, depending on how Windows is setup, the multiplier can be changing hundreds or thousands of times per second.  Monitoring software or a graph that is sampling the CPU once per second is meaningless.

 

The easiest way to minimize power consumption and stress is to enable the C7 C state.  In this state, when a CPU core has something to do, it runs at full speed.  When a core has nothing to do, it is automatically disconnected from the voltage rail and disconnected from the internal clock so the core will be running at 0 MHz and 0 Volts.  Hard to beat that.  Most enthusiasts do not understand C states so they usually disable them.  To me, this makes no sense.  For most workloads, an 8 core CPU does not need to have 8 cores active simultaneously so why not let the CPU manage itself and effectively turn off inactive cores.  CPU core temps, power consumption, etc. will all be reduced anytime the CPU is not fully loaded. 

 

If you do not like the C states, you can use the Windows Balanced power profile with the Minimum processor state set to a low number like 5% so you can watch your CPU slow down when idle.  Modern CPUs become significantly less efficient when slowed down to 800 MHz.  Emabling the C States will result in a more responsive computer with less power consumption compared to using the Balanced power profile to slow down your CPU.

 

The 9700K also supports Speed Shift technology.  This is a far superior way to control the CPU speed compared to the old school SpeedStep method.  

 

Lots of options are available.  You just need to learn how newer CPUs work.  You should check out a program called ThrottleStop.  It lets you enable Speed Shift and you can setup multiple profiles so you can get your CPU running any which way you want.  You can also setup keyboard shortcuts and easily change CPU speeds and profiles on the fly to use as much turbo boost or as little turbo boost as you like.  It is totally up to you.

 

Sir, thank you very much for a such clear and well written explanation. I did realise that I had no idea about how modern CPUs worked. I will be sure to save your reply for future reference and check the C states. I just have one quick question remaining, when a cpu is running at a high clock day in and day out and the temperatures and voltage are within reason, is there any possibility that the cpu will last a shorter period of time compared to when its clocking down at idle? And, lastly, there are 4 c states  available to be switched on or off, a two word explanation will be very much appreciated. In the meantime, I will go ahead and read up on speedshift. Lastly, I have seen that in this video 

the creator's cpu is running at stock in bios, would that be due to the C7 being enabled? Sorry if any of my questions are dumb 

[unclewebb]

If your new CPU lasts only 15 years, is that going to be a problem?  The vast majority of CPUs are obsolete long before they degrade.  My closets are full of old CPUs that run just as fast as the day I bought them but they are obsolete.  10 years from now, your 9700K will probably be sitting in your closet.  Considering the overclocking and over voltage abuse, you would expect to see a lot more forum posts about problems like this.  There are a few posts here and there but the number of degraded CPUs being reported is tiny compared to how many CPUs Intel produces every day.  

 

I did not have time to watch the whole video but as far as I know, J.J. is not a big fan of enabling the C States.  CPU-Z and the Asus software does not show C State activity so the C States are usually ignored.  Enabling them is an easy way to reduce power consumption and stress on your CPU.

 

I am not sure what bios options you have available but most motherboards have options to enable or disable the core C states; C1E, C3, C6 and C7.  Beyond that, there might also be an option to enable various package C States.  When each individual core enters the same C state, then the entire CPU package can also enter the same C state for further power savings.  After you have done your overclocking and you know your CPU is stable, I would try to enable all of the core C States.  Depending on how aggressive your overclock is, it might be harder to get the package C states 100% stable but this depends on the CPU.  A stable overclock should still be stable after the core C states are enabled, including C7.  That is the important one so it can drop down to 0 MHz and 0 Volts.  If you are going for a world MHz record while cooling with liquid nitrogen, you can leave the C states disabled.

 

Speed Shift is some new Intel technology to reduce the CPU speed when a CPU is lightly loaded.  Personally, I think getting the C states enabled is far more important than Speed Shift or adaptive voltage.