Apple's newest Mojave release breaks support for most newer Nvidia GPUs.

[Skanky Sylveon]

It seems that since the release of macOS 10.14 “Mojave” newer GPUs will not work properly on the operating system. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2018/12/11/apple-turns-its-back-on-customers-and-nvidia-with-macos-mojave/amp/

 

Quote

Apple controls which drivers are released for its operating systems. And when Apple pushed macOS 10.14 out the door, it appears suspended support for some discrete NVIDIA GPUs. According to Apple’s website, only two aging “Mac Edition” discrete NVIDIA GPUs, the Quadro K5000 and GeForce GTX 680, are officially supported. 

A couple of aging GPUs won't cut it when it comes to GPU accelerated workloads, which is the main reason to put an Nvidia GPU in an Apple product. 

 

Also, there is a post on Nvidia's developer's website which summarizes what's going on as well.

https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/1043070/announcements/faq-about-macos-10-14-mojave-nvidia-drivers/

Quote

“Developers using Macs with NVIDIA graphics cards are reporting that after upgrading from 10.13 to 10.14 (Mojave) they are experiencing rendering regressions and slow performance. Apple fully controls drivers for Mac OS. Unfortunately, NVIDIA currently cannot release a driver unless it is approved by Apple.” 

So, it seems that Nvidia wants to help fix the issue by releasing drivers, but can't just simply release a driver without Apple's approval. 

 

It seems that Mac owners that rely on Nvidia GPUs for CUDA acceleration aren't happy with the change, nor should they be.

 

I'm honestly baffled by the change.  Is it just a bug?  If so, I would imagine that Apple would be more public about a patch coming. 

Does Apple have a beef with Nvidia?  Well, I don't see why the consumer should suffer because of that.

 

Is this just Apple wanting more control with what you do with your machine?  I don't see why the sudden change, unless there will be upcoming workstation releases that will have newer Nvidia GPUs, and they don't want any kind of competition from their own lineup because someone is tech savvy enough to open up their computer and replace the GPU.

 

This is all just speculation though. 

Either way, if you are a Mac user and rely on a newer Nvidia GPU, it's probably best if you just stick with 10.13.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Last I checked, Apple was shipping systems with Radeon GPUs because of something to do with Nvidia not wanting to let Apple mod the drivers for macOS/OSX.

 

Still: seriously, Apple?

[Skanky Sylveon]

Just now, Crunchy Dragon said:

Last I checked, Apple was shipping systems with Radeon GPUs because of something to do with Nvidia not wanting to let Apple mod the drivers for macOS/OSX.

I know that Apple has always preferred AMD GPUs, that would explain why.

[DrMacintosh]

6 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I'm honestly baffled by the change.  Is it just a bug?  If so, I would imagine that Apple would be more public about a patch coming. 

Does Apple have a beef with Nvidia?  Well, I don't see why the consumer should suffer because of that.

It is not a bug, its a result of Apple switching completely off of OpenGL for all of macOS. 

 

Yes, Apple does have a beef with Nvidia. After multiple GPU failures and Nvidia refusing to work with Apple on replacements or upholding their side of the contracts, Apple is not keen on working with Nvidia, probably ever again. 

 

AMD provides Apple with custom chips on demand at a reasonable price, or they used to. Vega 16/20 are standard parts but Apple still orders custom silicon like the Radeon Pro 555/560X which are designed around the Mac, not the Mac designed around them. Big benefits for a company like Apple. 

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I know that Apple has always preferred AMD GPUs, that would explain why.

That makes sense too, I've seen a lot more Macs with Radeon GPUs.

[D13H4RD]

I guess that means AMD wins out as the de facto choice for Hackintosh builds going forward?

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, D13H4RD said:

I guess that means AMD wins out as the de facto choice for Hackintosh builds going forward?

It already was. Nvidia cards were always more difficult to get working in those systems. 

[Dissitesuxba11s]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

It is not a bug, its a result of Apple switching completely off of OpenGL for all of macOS. 

So you're saying...

 /s

 

I know what you meant, I just wanted to make the joke.

[Skanky Sylveon]

1 minute ago, D13H4RD said:

I guess that means AMD wins out as the de facto choice for Hackintosh builds going forward?

I guess Apple doesn't like Granny Smiths.

I'll grab my coat.

[Taf the Ghost]

4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

It is not a bug, its a result of Apple switching completely off of OpenGL for all of macOS. 

 

Yes, Apple does have a beef with Nvidia. After multiple GPU failures and Nvidia refusing to work with Apple on replacements or upholding their side of the contracts, Apple is not keen on working with Nvidia, probably ever again. 

 

AMD provides Apple with custom chips on demand at a reasonable price, or they used to. Vega 16/20 are standard parts but Apple still orders custom silicon like the Radeon Pro 555/560X which are designed around the Mac, not the Mac designed around them. Big benefits for a company like Apple. 

AMD provides custom designs at the performance/cost structure Apple pays for. That's where the hangup with Vega was. Apple got all of the first runs.

[bcredeur97]

is this a move to stop hackintoshes?

[D13H4RD]

Just now, bcredeur97 said:

is this a move to stop hackintoshes?

AMD GPUs still work fine, so I'd assume no. Probably a lot more to do with Apple's beef with NVIDIA

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

is this a move to stop hackintoshes?

No, just a move to stop Nvidia GPUs from running on Macs. Apple is fully committed to AMD Graphics at this point. 

[yolosnail]

Let's be real though, how many people were actually putting Nvidia GPUs in their Macs, the last Mac that you could actually put an Nvidia GPU in was the pre trashcan Mac Pro, that is of course unless you're using an eGPU.

But if that is the case then, you'd be having to use a Mac with TB3, and there aren't really any Macs with TB3 that would benefit from an Nvidia GPU so I can't actually imagine this affecting many people at all. I mean, there's barely any apps on the Mac that actually use CUDA so why would Apple bother spending the money supporting them?

[flibberdipper]

5 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

Let's be real though, how many people were actually putting Nvidia GPUs in their Macs, the last Mac that you could actually put an Nvidia GPU in was the pre trashcan Mac Pro, that is of course unless you're using an eGPU.

But if that is the case then, you'd be having to use a Mac with TB3, and there aren't really any Macs with TB3 that would benefit from an Nvidia GPU so I can't actually imagine this affecting many people at all. I mean, there's barely any apps on the Mac that actually use CUDA so why would Apple bother spending the money supporting them?

I like how you just completely ignored people on those older systems with Nvidia cards who may have upgraded to Mojave and have no clue what the hell went wrong because they're not tech-savvy enough to. 

 

(also Hackintosh but anyone capable of doing that already knows doing that with Nvidia cards is more of a pain in the ass than it's really worth)

[yolosnail]

Just now, flibberdipper said:

I like how you just completely ignored people on those older systems with Nvidia cards who may have upgraded to Mojave and have no clue what the hell went wrong because they're not tech-savvy enough to. 

 

(also Hackintosh but anyone capable of doing that already knows doing that with Nvidia cards is more of a pain in the ass than it's really worth)

I didn't, my main desktop is actually a 2009 Mac Pro with a Geforce GT120 which isn't even compatible with Mojave because it's not Metal capable, so really if it wasn't compatible they wouldn't have been able to upgrade to Mojave to start with

[flibberdipper]

4 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

I didn't, my main desktop is actually a 2009 Mac Pro with a Geforce GT120 which isn't even compatible with Mojave because it's not Metal capable, so really if it wasn't compatible they wouldn't have been able to upgrade to Mojave to start with

Gee I really don't see you mentioning them here.

[yolosnail]

1 minute ago, flibberdipper said:

Gee I really don't see you mentioning them here.

That's because this update on affects people on Mojave, and very few Macs that are capable of running Mojave actually have an Nvidia GPU in them

[Blademaster91]

9 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

That's because this update on affects people on Mojave, and very few Macs that are capable of running Mojave actually have an Nvidia GPU in them

Most people that bought external GPU docks? But this doesn't surprise me, just Apple doing Apple things.

[yolosnail]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Most people that bought external GPU docks? But this doesn't surprise me, just Apple doing Apple things.

I mentioned that in my first post.

39 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

But if that is the case then, you'd be having to use a Mac with TB3, and there aren't really any Macs with TB3 that would benefit from an Nvidia GPU so I can't actually imagine this affecting many people at all. I mean, there's barely any apps on the Mac that actually use CUDA so why would Apple bother spending the money supporting them?

In my opinion anyway, there arent any Macs that would benefit from an Nvidia GPU over a Radeon, purely because of the low CPU performance. The only one I think would benefit would be the iMac Pro but that comes with Vega so... Plus, like I said, very few Mac apps use CUDA anyway, most at this point are optimised for AMD

[AngryBeaver]

Just another reason to not support apple. I don't know why they always want to be so limiting on upgrade paths... oh wait I know why. They want to force you into buying a new product of theirs every few years to stay relevant.

 

It isn't like they are offering anything of significant value over a windows machine and you pay sometimes 2x if not more for the same specs. Actually in the last 2 weeks I have seen a little over 30+ incidents with Macs and getting hit with Shlayer a-c variants. Thankfully our security measures are able to handle these, but we are seeing that more and more items are being targeted at Macs. So they aren't even really less prone to viruses now.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

. I don't know why they always want to be so limiting on upgrade paths... oh wait I know why. They want to force you into buying a new product of theirs every few years to stay relevant.

Alternatively, there aren't enough Nvidia users on OSX to justify supporting Nvidia cards anymore.

[AngryBeaver]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Alternatively, there aren't enough Nvidia users on OSX to justify supporting Nvidia cards anymore.

Probably because they control the drivers and support of what cards you can use. If they opened up the platform more to work with Nvidia cards across the board then I have a feeling you would see many more of them.

[Mooshi]

"Created for professionals and creatives"

[Drak3]

6 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Probably because they control the drivers and support of what cards you can use. If they opened up the platform more to work with Nvidia cards across the board then I have a feeling you would see many more of them.

They have no obligation to open the platform.