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JonoT

The gaming PC days are NUMBERED! (Sponsored)

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8 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

Ah so they're assuming the signal IS travelling at the speed of light with no interruptions. 

 

Man I don't know how they're going to stay in business having to install all these direct link fiber optic cables to all of the subscriber's houses.... with no interruptions or switches or anything. 

 

EDIT: I'm sorry, I forgot that the speed of light in fiber optic cables is ~30% slower. 

 

So what they're REALLY assuming is that they have a laser pointed directly at your house and a transceiver on both ends. 

I did say assuming an ideal network setup. so 1ms/93mi is the theoretical best case limit that can never be exceeded.  

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this would definitely apply to work as well since it's a complete OS remote thin client, but not sure about not being to edit when the internet's down ._.

then again working on a local fast machine and then offloading the render to the rented remote server sounds enticing (although project secrecy would be something to look into ._.)

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This would be VERY cool to use with a super portable Surface Go tablet that has the restricted Windows 10 S loaded on it, and especially for lighter/older games like Far Cry, HL2, Doom 3, Civ V, ATS etc... Any indication of if/when they will have an app available in the Microsoft Store?

 

Also, how does this connect with a person's steam/origin/uplay account? What if I have an older game that came on disc only?

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I think there's nothing LTT could put in a video title that would entice me to watch it anymore. Every single inane infomercial needs to be prefaced by ridiculous hyperbole.

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Ok. I understand the need for clickbait title to lure idiots like me to watch the vid. But can you at the very least put "(sponsored)" and "(Shadow cloud gaming site visit)" or something along those line in the title? The whole title tells us nothing and is quite frustrating...

 

Also, what's the next clickbait title? "Linus sucks a BIG FAT one" where Linus eats a big ice pop?

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1 minute ago, BananaInSandals said:

Ok. I understand the need for clickbait title to lure idiots like me to watch the vid.

totally agree! and the quality of content have really dropped quite alot .

I am not going to click into the video , though I have no idea what the title is trying to say

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I searched "shadow cloud gaming" and "shadow streaming" on youtube from a blank session. this video's not picked in search ._.

 

EDIT: okay it's farther down with "shadow PC gaming" ._. my bad

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1 hour ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

I am not going to click into the video , though I have no idea what the title is trying to say

You didn't missed much tbh. The vid is quite boring...

 

11 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

I searched "shadow cloud gaming" and "shadow streaming" on youtube from a blank session. this video's not picked in search ._.

That's really bad for sponsoring lmao. Money paid but won't even show in search result. Shadow cloud better asks for the money back. -_-

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9 minutes ago, BananaInSandals said:

That's really bad for sponsoring lmao. Money paid but won't even show in search result.

i mean there's still the subscriber base, but my main concern is that it isn't involved for curiosity-discovery ._.

(then again it's at like 1mil views for a full-sponsor video so maybe not as much o-o)

 

EDIT: yeah the clickbait works. looking through the recent quarter and those with clearer descriptions take in lesser views because people knows what's in the video and decides "meh" and not watch it ._. it's kinda the same problem with game demos of the past

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2 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

i mean there's still the subscriber base, but my main concern is that it isn't involved for curiosity-discovery ._.

(then again it's at like 1mil views for a full-sponsor video so maybe not as much o-o)

:P it could also be that Shadow didn't pay enough for LTT to put the vid onto research results. The video description (which is where the search engine mainly search for words) is so short and without describing Shadow at all.

Or Colton might have just screwed up (again) :P 

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3 hours ago, corrado33 said:

This makes.... no sense. If you don't have money to save every month, how on earth are you going to afford the extra $35 a month for a gaming PC? Wouldn't you just have to divert funds from somewhere else since "life keeps getting in the way?" It sounds like you want to spend money you don't have.

 

Your analogy to cars makes no sense.

 

A gaming computer, once built, can be left untouched for YEARS without having to do maintenance or put any more money into it. Gaming components are generally very long lasting, unless you are an idiot and break them/overheat them. A car, on the other hand, requires expensive maintenance at regular intervals, and is a hell of a lot more expensive, and more likely to break/get wrecked.

 

I think what you really need to do is learn that you don't need an ULTRA MEGA FAST RGB $3000 GAMING MACHINE SUPREME. You can build a very capable gaming computer for less than $1000. If you go used you can build a very capable gaming computer for half that. If you sold your current rig for $300 you would only have to save up for 6 months before this service starts costing you more than you'd save if you just build a computer used. 

 

Penny wise, pound stupid. 

 

If you are living paycheck to paycheck enough not to be able to save up any money, then you sure as hell shouldn't be paying $35 a month for access to a gaming computer, and at least $50 a month for an internet connection to support it. In canada that'd be even more....

Never once said I was living paycheck to paycheck. I said that life tends to toss situations that are unknown towards me recently and that have required me to dip into money I have saved up and put it elsewhere that’s more important. This is life, things happen. Other words priorities over luxuries. I could of built the computer I wanted a number of times if I just bought part for part each time I saved a bit, but that’s a bad approach for building a PC. So I rather lose $420 right now for a year then $3000 for one year. In just one month due to unseen events I had to use about $1500 of my savings for priorities. $1500 I can save back up but if I had spent that amount on a luxury then I would be paying back more then $1500 as I wouldn’t of had the full amount and would of had no choice but to use a credit card to sloved the situation at that moment. So do you have a crystal ball? Can you foresee the future? No didn’t think so, so I still like the idea that I don’t need to pop out a huge amount of money for something all at once that is like a car in value of  depreciation although your under the impression that it’s not. I rather pay a small about over time and always have the best of the best (again assuming the service works).

 

cars lose their value over time, so does hardware. And yes hardware does fail. You don’t have to be rough with your stuff for them to ware over time and fail. I also wouldn’t recommend you buying a car by financing it, just like I wouldn’t recommend anyone to buy a computer on a credit card. But people often do these things for luxuries yet they don’t know when something will happen financially to them.

 

So yes leasing / renting a luxury item that will always be upgraded and took care of for less then an overrated upfront cost does sound better to me for a disposable item that can have shorter terms then something that could hang over your head in the event of a financial issue.

 

Now let’s do some simple math, I built my 1st gaming rig in 2006, I bought all parts from NCIX. I went for the best of the pretty much and it total a little over $3000 back then (I am one of them people who do things “go big or go home” that’s my joy and my pride), in 2008 I upgraded the video card to keep up with playing on max settings and got a deal on a used CPU maxing out the available CPU’s I could put in the system other then the $1000 extreme edition at the time. In 2010 I realized that it was time to start thinking new build as parts compatibility wasn’t really there anymore for upgrades but at the time though I was working a low income job although but liked my work (Ever find a job you liked doing). In 2012 the company I worked for started downsizing stores and hours. Not wanting a cut in my hours as it would effect me to the point that I wouldn’t be able to live within my means, I went to work for a trucking company. Pay was better, hours were very long (put a lot of tension on family life) due to the long hours I worked I given up on my gaming life as I didn’t get to play as much. I did buy an SSD to replace my failed Raptor hard drive and upgraded my RAM at some point to 8GB of DDR2 from the 4GB it used to be just to try and have a bit of performance boost for them days that I could relax to some gaming. The ram and SSD help, video card was a gen 3 on a gen 2 pci-e slot with a cpu that was bottlenecking it. So I gonna around it to about $400 in upgrades. Now after a couple years working 14 - 16 hours a day for the trucking company, I got ill and was taken off work for a year, my family was happy to have me home with them and when my doctor started telling me that I’ll soon be able to return to work, my partner, asked me not to return. Family very important to me so I went to work doing night shifts for a company I’m still with today. I still work long hours of 12 hours a night but I work less days, works out to be 7 days on and 7 days off but spread out in a 2 week period. The pay is 2x better as well and has allowed me to buy a used HP Z420 workstation to use for now to play all my games but again preformence is lacking.

 

sorry again for the long post but your reply came off a bit trolly to my financial situations which my post was really along the lines that this service seems like a more practical solution in the long run then to take a financial risk on a luxury item.

 

so back to the figures:

 

$3400 for my original gaming rig and it’s upgrades (and it now pointless for gaming today)

 

So it got its use for what it was meant to do from 2006 to 2010 but to be fair we’ll give it till 2014.

 

So $3400 / 8 years = $425 with the last 3 - 4 years being crap for gaming with many games being min or below requirements.

 

vs

 

$420 a year for top of the line hardware and the best experience for gaming (if the system works as advertised)

 

no mater what, I’m always going to want a gaming PC, I’m always gonna want it to be the best. In the long run this solution works best for me over building and upgrading all the time and the major up front costs for a luxury. Yes I could buy someone used stuff but that also has unnecessary risks.

 

by the way, if you want to buy my rig for $300 be my guess. I wouldn’t advise it given the age of the hardware, seen my $600 video card on eBay the other day going for $45 lol. Like my buddy always said, a computer is not an investment, it something that depreciates a lot in value over a short period of time. And that old rig is used for storage now. If you meant $300 for my HP Z420 then sorry but that a good number cruncher and even if I had a new gaming rig, I wouldn’t part with it. My misses can take it as an upgrade for her office. If your interested I got a Dell PowerEdge 1750 server you can buy, it has out lived it use / replaced by an IBM server and hasn’t been on now for about 2 years. Cost more to ship it then what it be worth today, heck cost more for me to drive it up to the recycling depot or the scrap metal yard then what they go for today.

 

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"So yes leasing / renting a luxury item that will always be upgraded and took care of for less then an overrated upfront cost does sound better to me for a disposable item that can have shorter terms then something that could hang over your head in the event of a financial issue."

 

Then you need a games console. Similar performance/quality as this service. It makes SOME sense for people in uni/college/working away from home.

 

That's where this tech has a service. But that is a smaller market, so they pretend it can hit other markets. It simply is not there for the cost/service/results analysis.

 

I can understand leasing a Car, as repairs/service/insurance etc can be included, at sometimes a higher or sometimes a cheaper cost than direct. But a massively larger service of convenience.

 

Games consoles already hit the convenience compares to PC gaming. And at a lower price point. This service however is more expensive than consoles, more expensive than PC (on credit/lease/finance if you cannot do up front cost) and less reliable than console gaming! It offers no benefit other than the hotdesking.

 

That is if you look at the actual performance/cost/service compared to what they *say* you will get. ?

 

PS, all the maths forgets that over 10 years this service will increase in price. So comparing it and saying it's the same cost as buying seems unfair. ;)

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12 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

"So yes leasing / renting a luxury item that will always be upgraded and took care of for less then an overrated upfront cost does sound better to me for a disposable item that can have shorter terms then something that could hang over your head in the event of a financial issue."

 

Then you need a games console. Similar performance/quality as this service. It makes SOME sense for people in uni/college/working away from home.

 

That's where this tech has a service. But that is a smaller market, so they pretend it can hit other markets. It simply is not there for the cost/service/results analysis.

 

I can understand leasing a Car, as repairs/service/insurance etc can be included, at sometimes a higher or sometimes a cheaper cost than direct. But a massively larger service of convenience.

 

Games consoles already hit the convenience compares to PC gaming. And at a lower price point. This service however is more expensive than consoles, more expensive than PC (on credit/lease/finance if you cannot do up front cost) and less reliable than console gaming! It offers no benefit other than the hotdesking.

 

That is if you look at the actual performance/cost/service compared to what they *say* you will get. ?

 

PS, all the maths forgets that over 10 years this service will increase in price. So comparing it and saying it's the same cost as buying seems unfair. ;)

Well this is the point right, can it do what they say it can do?

 

if I can use that service as if it really was my rig sitting in my office, then yes I’ll go for it.

 

Console gaming is where I been for the last few years. PS4 with an XIM4 so I can get some computer feel out of it lol.

 

as for price going up in 10 years, it goes the same for hardware. If you had to tell me that a video card would cost over $2000 10 years ago; I’d say your nuts, heck I still can’t believe the prices. My first video card I ever bought was a BFG OC GTX 7900 and I thought it’s price tag at the time was nuts on sale for $400

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8 minutes ago, Elochai said:

as for price going up in 10 years, it goes the same for hardware. If you had to tell me that a video card would cost over $2000 I’d say your nuts, heck I still can’t believe the prices. My first video card I ever bought was a BFG OC GTX 7900 and I thought it’s price tag at the time was nuts on sale for $400

Yes. But you already purchased your old PC. So when current PC prices go up, it does not affect your current build (or the upgrade cycle of the online service).

 

So mathematically, price increases will hit this online service before they hit your build/upgrades. So buying a PC today will equal the price of the service, and give you savings for 5-10 years, then in that 5-10 year upgrade cycle, you buy a new PC, but then calculate the new price of the online service.

 

In 5-10 years this online service may be more or less in price. But your current PC is a guarantee on price, with the exception of failures. The online service is a garuntee of "uptime" (though I doubt they even offer refunds for downtime... because who does that ever?).

 

All the stuff in the video was sales fakery speil. The only services this offers is hotdesking, and as mentioned, the "reliability/convenience" of someone else doing it all for you. You can do some of the service/warranty/repairs with PC gaming, but it may be a bit more in cost if you include same day repairs/mail out returns etc with Dell/HP/etc.

 

So yes, on the convenience (they repair everything for you) or portability, this is better. But cost (and by extension access to performance) is NOT the benefit here. In the slightest. :P

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7 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Yes. But you already purchased your old PC. So when current PC prices go up, it does not affect your current build (or the upgrade cycle of the online service).

 

So mathematically, price increases will hit this online service before they hit your build/upgrades. So buying a PC today will equal the price of the service, and give you savings for 5-10 years, then in that 5-10 year upgrade cycle, you buy a new PC, but then calculate the new price of the online service.

 

In 5-10 years this online service may be more or less in price. But your current PC is a guarantee on price, with the exception of failures. The online service is a garuntee of "uptime" (though I doubt they even offer refunds for downtime... because who does that ever?).

 

All the stuff in the video was sales fakery speil. The only services this offers is hotdesking, and as mentioned, the "reliability/convenience" of someone else doing it all for you. You can do some of the service/warranty/repairs with PC gaming, but it may be a bit more in cost if you include same day repairs/mail out returns etc with Dell/HP/etc.

 

So yes, on the convenience (they repair everything for you) or portability, this is better. But cost (and by extension access to performance) is NOT the benefit here. In the slightest. :P

I get what your saying. For me I got 5 to 6 good years out of my gaming rig before it needed an upgrade (and continue down hill in preformance)

 

I agree 100% that the cost of this service could go up enough to make it not worth it to me. But the fees may not go up by much or at all in the 5 years of use.

 

example, I rented a server for 4 years (as of Dec 06, 2018 this month and year) in the 4 years of renting, I had one hard drive replaced after it failed and I had hardware upgrades done to my server (mostly small things like adding extra drives for the value, upgrading my bandwidth, a new watchdog firewall, etc...) last year was the first year they billed me more, 90 cents more a month.

 

So cost may be reasonable, and if I buy a good system, let’s even knock down the price to a $2000 rig, this service will be less or about on par if price increases reasonably. And should be always up to date on hardware and upgrades so I by pass that added step. With the added benefit of taking my gaming with me as you mentioned.

 

But if the service can’t do what it says then it’s a complete waste. I have the network speeds to support it but does their servers, network, and software deliver on what it says it can do. I’d love to see some Canadian servers as well. It really to bad they don’t offer a trial of the service just to test it. As for the Remote Desktop aspect, $35 for a server with a 1080 in it isn’t to bad either. My server host was renting out servers with GTX 1080’s for close to $200/month. They were geared towards bitcoin mining(don’t think they rent out anymore servers with high end video cards)

 

 

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Convenience will always trump quality to a degree. However, the infrastructure isn't really ready yet and there is still some technical hurdles to overcome for this to be adopted to the mainstream.Price will also be a factor.

 

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1 hour ago, Elochai said:

[deleted my omni quote, but pinging so you know I agree with you. :) ]

 

 

Yep. Thing is though, it's always bounced back like this in the past. Thin clients just don't seem plausible in most instances for it to take off massively. It seems a niche market.

 

Local produce -> supermarkets -> Amazon (online distribution) seems to have happened in the physical goods realm. Local musicians -> Live broadcast / physical recordings -> streaming services has happened in the music/video industry.

 

For the same to happen with gaming, it needs some order of magnitude change IMO. Computing for cloud systems is there, but that's when working on massively distributed projects (a website or online service) or datasets (research or render farms). For general consumers, we'd need it either a tenth the price, ten times the performance or plumbed directly into our eyeballs to make it worth it. :P

 

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8 hours ago, Edsonicus said:

Of course you could use it for said purpose and that's something I can see some people being interested in. Starting, wannabe streamers that don't have a good enough setup and/or upload internet speed. However, if your upload speed isn't good enough for streaming, would your download speed and latency be adequate to make your games playable?

 

That's the only flaw I see besides what you pointed out. And before anyone comes at me with this, yes, I understand most people not using fiber have a better download than upload speeds, I've been there ?

That's the thing tho latency isn't really a issue where I am nor is download speeds, the only thing I'm missing is a high enough upload speed, my upload speed is perfectly fine for voice and the minimal data required for input commands on my end.

 

The best example of this is basically any multiplayer game where you download more data than you send, you need all the information of those around you and their voice but the only thing you send is your actions and voice if enabled. The downside of this service might be no face recording for twitch, but if you don't want your face on the internet then no issues. For a short term practice it's a good use for the service, but then I can see this company having financial issues in 2-3 years because people will stop using it if they don't implement 2000 series.

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I find it mildly ironic that this service is advertised while in the same description they also advertise PIA. I'm sure playing this over a VPN won't induce any extra latency. Or maybe you have to use a vpn because they don't have servers in your country yet? hmmmmm emoji


Oh, and to chirp in with "your tv has 60ms of input lag"....what TVs are you using? I guarantee that big LCD or OLED on the wall you tested was likely in a "gaming mode", which usually have a response time of under 30ms. Hell, that's why it's called GAMING MODE, because it's meant to sell to gamers. Plus that's TVs, not high refresh rate low ms response time computer monitors. These are even more clearly noticeable, and more picky to PC gamers who aren't CSGO freaks.

 

 "The gaming PC as we know it will be dead". I doubt that. If anything, PC gaming is becoming more and more emulate-able, like esports or ninja asking "what fuck did you say you little shit" on the battle bus. Esports will get bigger and bigger, and more kids and people will want to become the next ninja, tfue, or youtube creator they watch. They aren't going to do that on a...I've already forgot the name of the company this is about. They'll do it on a local PC.

 

Give me a fucking break, "it just works". You sound like an apple employee. I hope the forum picture trying to look like steve jobs in a turtleneck in a clean room isn't an r/whoooosh thing.

 

This is a weird video. I kind of like you Linus. I had an SV650 too, a 1st gen naked 01' in silver. Remus exhaust, debaffled for that vtwin beautiful rumble on engine braking. The gaming PC isn't going anywhere. I lived and grew up 30 minutes from SF. Startups fizzle and die in the blink of an eye here. I wish them the best though.

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Wait. It says you get a gigabit connection with this, which is plenty to run a 4k video smoothly. And how would you get a gigabit connection with it anyways if the connection alone would cost more than the rental fee? I don't really understand how anybody with slow internet would be able to use this, whereas if you have native hardware, then you don't need a fast connection to run any games.

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22 minutes ago, hiitswilliam said:

Wait. It says you get a gigabit connection with this, which is plenty to run a 4k video smoothly. And how would you get a gigabit connection with it anyways if the connection alone would cost more than the rental fee? I don't really understand how anybody with slow internet would be able to use this, whereas if you have native hardware, then you don't need a fast connection to run any games.

Your system has a gigabit connection however it is on a ### gigabit outgoing connection shared with x number of other systems. It's basically like with any other server provider you have a guaranteed maximum connection speed, but by no means does it promise you will get it 24/7. A good way of showing this is actually using OVH's weather map

http://weathermap.ovh.net/

2500Gbps-a-travers-le-monde.jpg

 

Currently there is no heavy usage however I have seen some parts at 90%, the weather map for that site only displays primary connections and not individual systems (unsure if there is anything like that to show the local cluster, I assume there is), this means your cluster could be using the maximum connection for your router and all the systems get prorated, so if they throw 20 machines on a 10 gigabit connection and you all try to use 1 gigabit at the same time you all will likely end up with around 500 megabit instead. Or worst if their outbound connection is only 250 gigabit and they sell 500+ units... Well you get the point.

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Gaming PC are still going to stick. The aspect that you can switch between devices within seconds is great but some people wouldn't benefit from that feature.


I'm gonna go find my own tech support...

with BLACKJACK and HOOKERS!

(Welcome to LTT Forums)

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Oh yes, the death of PC gaming, they keep on saying this the same way how batteries will have unlimited capacity and charge in 2 seconds every year or how Linux will overtake Windows for gaming every year. And yet neither has happened so far.

 

This service will fly with people who have huge connection and finish games and forget about them. This will never fly with people who invest time into games and play them for decades. Which means people who hang on GOG a lot are not the kind of people these are aiming at.

 

This however might work if they are leasing you a full controlled desktop and you can install things your way and run them your way. Now, in that case, it's possible. So you'd install Steam on a remote system and run your own games from it via streaming. Or GOG games. That however could work because you're still in control, just not running on your actual hardware.

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