Ryzen 3000 Leaks

[Canada EH]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:20 PM, Deus Voltage said:

AMD is really shaking up the market

True you are right on that.

But Intel has lots of Ace cards in them back clean rooms.

Think about it, AMD being stagnant for so long, why would Intel come out with the full meal deal when it can offer niblets and make more profit.

[Drak3]

28 minutes ago, Canada EH said:

But Intel has lots of Ace cards in them back clean rooms.

Think about it, AMD being stagnant for so long, why would Intel come out with the full meal deal when it can offer niblets and make more profit.

Intel doesn't have an ace up their sleeves. They've hit a road block and haven't found a good way around it.

[Mihle]

40 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Intel doesn't have an ace up their sleeves. They've hit a road block and haven't found a good way around it.

They are just trying to force their way through it. That takes time.

[bowrilla]

1 hour ago, Canada EH said:

True you are right on that.

But Intel has lots of Ace cards in them back clean rooms.

Think about it, AMD being stagnant for so long, why would Intel come out with the full meal deal when it can offer niblets and make more profit.

Well, they might have if only they could get their 10nm process working. But they had to postpone again. They're on 14nm since 2015 and their Broadwell architecture! They thought they had all the time and AMD was dead. Well, they missed the train and are now desperately trying to catch up. Their 9900k is a beast, yes, but the price tag is off the charts compared to its performance. Due to their production issues with 10nm they're now experiencing issues with their production on 14nm, which leads to even higher prices. 
 

Let's face it: AMD got Intel on the wrong foot and is now playing their position pushing Intel into rushed product launches. I doubt Intel has anything in their lineup to counter 12 or 16 cores on a mass market cpu.

[Canada EH]

True

 

The Spin Doctors are at work!

Drama and "The Struggle" pays off in the end.

 

We will see what comes of it in the future.

[Agosto]

2 hours ago, M3M3G0D said:

well, I bought a 2x8gb 2666mhz Corsair LPX memory kit, which I know is one of the most popular out there, and an ASRock B450 Pro4 mobo which was recommended to me on a different thread.

well, 3200 is much better for ryzen and that board has pretty underwhelming VRMs...

[Just Monika]

If only Ryzen could do away with its reliance on high-frequency RAM, then I would seriously consider a Ryzen CPU in my next build. That's really the only thing that's preventing me from committing to AMD and breaking away from Intel on the CPU side.

[Suika]

45 minutes ago, Kongou said:

If only Ryzen could do away with its reliance on high-frequency RAM, then I would seriously consider a Ryzen CPU in my next build. That's really the only thing that's preventing me from committing to AMD and breaking away from Intel on the CPU side.

Maybe you have more to it, but that seems like a very nitpicky turn off to the platform, considering the difference between a 2x8GB 2400MHz kit and a 2x8GB 3000MHz kit is $10, but the difference between an AMD R7 2700X and Intel i9-9900k is ~$250 and availability.

[williamcll]

Glad I still haven't bought a new desktop then.

[Donut417]

5 hours ago, Canada EH said:

True you are right on that.

But Intel has lots of Ace cards in them back clean rooms.

Think about it, AMD being stagnant for so long, why would Intel come out with the full meal deal when it can offer niblets and make more profit.

As far as CPU's are concerned I dont think Intel has anything up its sleeve. AMD being stagnate has just allowed Intel to slow push towards the brick wall they have hit. If anything AMD's sudden success has led to Intel pushing to that wall faster then they wanted. I think thats the reason Intel is looking at entering the GPU market. As well as I think like licensed ARM as well, which I remember reading a few months back. 

 

Intel is looking for other areas to gain profit from, while they work out getting thru the wall. No doubt in my mind that Intel will break through this wall like they have done countless others, the question is..... How long will it take? How much more competitive will AMD be by that time? 

[Fnige]

20 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

How long will it take? How much more competitive will AMD be by that time? 

Guessing by RX3000 coming out in 2019, Pretty competitive

[Taf the Ghost]

7 hours ago, KuJoe said:

I hope those leaks aren't real... but if they are does anybody want some 1700s and a lightly used 2400G for cheap? 

The G-series won't be out until much later when AMD refreshes its Laptop line. The ones we see in desktop are the ones that didn't work best for other projects.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 hours ago, Kongou said:

If only Ryzen could do away with its reliance on high-frequency RAM, then I would seriously consider a Ryzen CPU in my next build. That's really the only thing that's preventing me from committing to AMD and breaking away from Intel on the CPU side.

Ryzen isn't any more sensitive to Memory Frequency than Intel. High-end Intel parts are actually benefit more from it. What happened during Ryzen 1st Gen launch was motherboard compatibility issues. Intel Z-series systems could simply run at 3200 without much issue, while Ryzen motherboards had issues with high speed kits. For both Intel & AMD, 2800 to 3000 is the point of massively diminishing returns.

 

The one exception is when you tighten down the timings really far around 3400 with a high-end GPU. This is the CS:GO workload approach, and you actually get the most out of those timings on a 7700k, over any other CPU in games. Especially with 2nd Gen Ryzen, the only benefits from above 2933 memory show up when you have at least a 2080/1080 Ti and tune the timings for latency in 1080p/High Refresh Rate gaming.

[Just Monika]

38 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Ryzen isn't any more sensitive to Memory Frequency than Intel. High-end Intel parts are actually benefit more from it. What happened during Ryzen 1st Gen launch was motherboard compatibility issues. Intel Z-series systems could simply run at 3200 without much issue, while Ryzen motherboards had issues with high speed kits. For both Intel & AMD, 2800 to 3000 is the point of massively diminishing returns.

 

The one exception is when you tighten down the timings really far around 3400 with a high-end GPU. This is the CS:GO workload approach, and you actually get the most out of those timings on a 7700k, over any other CPU in games. Especially with 2nd Gen Ryzen, the only benefits from above 2933 memory show up when you have at least a 2080/1080 Ti and tune the timings for latency in 1080p/High Refresh Rate gaming.

I had the impression that Ryzen was more dependent on high speed RAM than Intel since every Ryzen and RAM discussion always involves "but is it Samsung B-die RAM?". If things have changed since then, I'll definitely take a new took at Ryzen with this in mind. At this moment, I'm between Ryzen or no build at all, Intel isn't even a possibility for me due to the disappointment that is the 9900K.

 

Fortunately, my 4690S is still going strong and I honestly haven't felt any difference in performance between now and when it was a fresh build. But I'm now considering Ryzen as a serious CPU choice for a next build.

[Taf the Ghost]

15 minutes ago, Kongou said:

I had the impression that Ryzen was more dependent on high speed RAM than Intel since every Ryzen and RAM discussion always involves "but is it Samsung B-die RAM?". If things have changed since then, I'll definitely take a new took at Ryzen with this in mind. At this moment, I'm between Ryzen or no build at all, Intel isn't even a possibility for me due to the disappointment that is the 9900K.

 

Fortunately, my 4690S is still going strong and I honestly haven't felt any difference in performance between now and when it was a fresh build. But I'm now considering Ryzen as a serious CPU choice for a next build.

B-dies have the highest compatibility among the Consumer models. What was actually happening was we were comparing 3200 memory 7700k vs 2666 memory 1800X, so Ryzen had both a clock frequency and memory frequency disadvantage. Intel's IMC is better, but what we really saw was just the "first gen" problems with any brand new architecture. Most of those problems were under control after about 4 months, and they are all but gone by 2nd Gen Ryzen.

 

The other detail is that this really only applies to extremely memory latency tasks. Memory frequency barely matters for any actual heavy workload, but it matters a lot for the "CS:GO workload". Which is CS:GO and, I kid you not, Adobe Products. Those are the two that really respond to hand-tuned memory subtimings. Puget Systems did a lot of testing and, as a result, only sell systems with 2666 memory. In everything but super latency intensive gaming, you don't need anything more.

[Canada EH]

My crystal ball says yay or nay depending on the moon cycle.

China knows for sure!

[CarlBar]

4 hours ago, Kongou said:

I had the impression that Ryzen was more dependent on high speed RAM than Intel since every Ryzen and RAM discussion always involves "but is it Samsung B-die RAM?". If things have changed since then, I'll definitely take a new took at Ryzen with this in mind. At this moment, I'm between Ryzen or no build at all, Intel isn't even a possibility for me due to the disappointment that is the 9900K.

 

Fortunately, my 4690S is still going strong and I honestly haven't felt any difference in performance between now and when it was a fresh build. But I'm now considering Ryzen as a serious CPU choice for a next build.

 

Nah Ryzen is highly dependent on high speed memory, much more so that intel because of intercore latency and how the IF is tied to the memory frequency and timings. But the situation is far better than it was. I've got a new R7 2700X paired with G.Skill Trident Z 3200mhz cl14 memory and all i had to do was tell the MB to use the XMP profile. Tiachi Ultimate x470 in case your wondering.

[Deus Voltage]

Added Hardware Unboxed's input which can be found here. He comments on Zen 2 at the 4:36 mark. Added his analysis to OP. 

[willieaames]

Can't wait for CES 2019 after this video.

[GoldenLag]

13 hours ago, Agost said:

well, 3200 is much better for ryzen and that board has pretty underwhelming VRMs...

The VRM at the price is still pretty good. Good enough for 8 core parts and a pretty OK overclock

[maartendc]

I am going to say this is fake.

 

I think they will not up the core count so dramatically. As Hardware Unboxed has said, AMD claimed 14% improvements at the same power. So they can likely increase the clockspeeds by 14% and call it a day. Together with some other improvements in architecture.

 

This is a revision of the same ZEN architecture. If they would so drastically increase both clockspeed and core counts, they would need a total overhaul of the architecture.

 

And it is DEFINITELY fake because they are listing prices. Even AMD does not know prices so far away from launch I would presume.

[Settlerteo]

2 minutes ago, maartendc said:

This is a revision of the same ZEN architecture. 

Zen+ was a revision. Not Zen 2

[Mihle]

3 minutes ago, maartendc said:

I am going to say this is fake.

 

I think they will not up the core count so dramatically. As Hardware Unboxed has said, AMD claimed 14% improvements at the same power. So they can likely increase the clockspeeds by 14% and call it a day. Together with some other improvements in architecture.

 

This is a revision of the same ZEN architecture. If they would so drastically increase both clockspeed and core counts, they would need a total overhaul of the architecture.

 

And it is DEFINITELY fake because they are listing prices. Even AMD does not know prices so far away from launch I would presume.

It's easily possible for AMD to has those core counts if they do it the same way Rome CPUs is. Something about leak can be true while others isn't, for example, core counts can be true while clock speed and price isn't.

 

Price might also be just something AMD aimed for but haven't set a line under yet.

 

Only way to know is to wait and see rumor say we will know CES

[GoldenLag]

1 hour ago, Mihle said:

Only way to know is to wait and see rumor say we will know CES 

The best we will get om CES is a teaser, dont expect any extra. Probably going to announche mass production, would be surprised if we got anything else.

[Mihle]

17 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

The best we will get om CES is a teaser, dont expect any extra. Probably going to announche mass production, would be surprised if we got anything else.

Well, probably, never know foebsure. Might announce that they use the same 14nm and 7nm combo as Rome if they do, and if they in those photos show 2 chiplets, you know that above 8 cores is most likely true. Will probably not get to know the price or clock speed yet especially, but who knows.