Are PC Manufacturers Trying to Screw You??

[Ivan M]

We go deep undercover and Silent Shop 6 System Integrators representing 3 different segments to see what they would offer to a seemingly ignorant buyer for $1500USD. In Episode 1, Agent Janice From Accounting purchases machines based solely on sales reps' recommendations. Results WILL surprise you.

 

 

[Nicnac]

great intro  

[ShortyfromLV]

On the latest video, what does @LMG Ivan mean by "Future proof is a fallacy" ?

[AngryBeaver]

No post with all the purchased machine specs?

[TechyBen]

26 minutes ago, LMG Ivan said:

We go deep undercover and Silent Shop 6 System Integrators representing 3 different segments to see what they would offer to a seemingly ignorant buyer for $1500USD. In Episode 1, Agent Janice From Accounting purchases machines based solely on sales reps' recommendations. Results WILL surprise you.

 

 

Amazing video... I now know what happened to a friend whos Dell never turned up. LOL.

 

12 minutes ago, ShortyfromLV said:

On the latest video, what does @LMG Ivan mean by "Future proof is a fallacy" ?

No one can future proof as you do not know what the future holds. In general though, high core GHz tend to stay relevant for single core performance, high core count for multi core performance (See GamersNexus latest i72700 re-review), more RAM is nice and NVidia cards have high performance out the gate, AMD cards get really good/long endurance on driver tweaks so keep their (lower initial) performance for longer.

[manikyath]

HP's "dont know what you're getting" kinda seems to fit the sort of folks that tend to go for HP -- or rather, the means HP usually finds its way to the folks.

most channels trough which HP products are sold, are forms of sale where the client says "it need it to be good" and dont care beyond that, leaving the rep to figure that out.

 

it is -- in fact -- how we sell computers at the place i work. some of our clients actually have no clue what their system is beyond a screen, mouse, and keyboard.

[Streetguru]

I don't like ivan, I can't understand him if I use my normal speed of X2 on videos

Clearly these companies should just pay me so people save money.

*Should have also checked out Falcon Northwest if you want a heart attack for the parts you get at X pricing, and possibly Xidax for the same experience.

Or maybe just include screenshots in the next video assuming it's not already uploaded..


$3000 for an i5 and GTX 1060

[Terryv]

I think this is the most interesting video they put out this year.

[SanityAgathion]

Awesome intro guys, made my day!

What the was going on with the CyberPowerPC "We do not give recommendations"? Is this some new policy in there? Before Christmas when shopping peaks?

 

Offtopic: I am sorry but ... is ... is she really Janice from accounting? THAT Janice from accounting? The one who doesn't give a .i..?

(Reference: John Oliver's Last Week Tonight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_x2Njn9J0)

[seon123]

I laughed way too much when watching this. It was great

I'm guessing Ep. 2 will be how the systems turn out? The parts choices, how well it's assembled (including cable management), and what kind of bloatware is included? I'm guessing Dell and HP are going to be worst. 

For the parts selection, this is roughly what I would recommend as a $1500 build, without rebates. I want to see how close it will be for performance. I'm guessing not very... 

Spoiler

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($319.99 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK - THEMIS 65.68 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($18.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte - Z370P D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($99.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($109.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($127.94 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB GAMING AMP Video Card  ($699.99 @ B&H) 
Case: Thermaltake - Core G21 Tempered Glass Edition ATX Mid Tower Case  ($66.77 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: BitFenix - Formula Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply  ($69.88 @ SuperBiiz) 
Total: $1513.54
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-12-04 18:00 EST-0500

I mean, it's fine to pay more to get it assembled, but surely, the brands would get some sort of discount, to make it somewhat competitive?

[SolarNova]

You know im on CyberPowerPCs side here .

 

Not giving out recommendations makes sure the customer comes to them knowing what they need. Its a good thing ..not a bad thing.

 

Ok yes from a pure buisness sales perspective, its not good ..but for the consumer ..its great. It encourages the buyer to do a little research themselves.

lets put it this way ..would u rather get the kinda sh*t recommendation Dell gave ..or effectivly be told ..."go do some homework befor u spend $1500-$2000, and get back to us then we can help you"

 

As for Alienware/Dell ..that was a given ..aint no way a big company like Dell going to have a good custom service/sales experience.

[Spotty]

Great video, looks like the start of a great series. Look forward to seeing what arrives.

[Spotty]

10 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

You know im on CyberPowerPCs side here .

 

Not giving out recommendations makes sure the customer comes to them knowing what they need. Its a good thing ..not a bad thing.

 

Ok yes from a pure buisness sales perspective, its not good ..but for the consumer ..its great. It encourages the buyer to do a little research themselves.

lets put it this way ..would u rather get the kinda sh*t recommendation Dell gave ..or effectivly be told ..."go do some homework and get back to us then we can help befor u spend $1500-$2000"

 

As for Alienware/Dell ..that was a given ..aint no way a big company like Dell going to have a good custom service/sales experience.

If you've ever worked in sales or retail you will know that while some customers come in knowing exactly what they want, other customers rely on you for assistance. That's why these people on the phone are called "sales assistants" or "customer support". 

 

If the customer doesn't know what product they want, then you ask questions about what they want the product to do, what their budget is, and then use your expertise and product knowledge to help the customer choose something that is right for their needs. 

 

They straight up lost a sale because they weren't willing to help the customer. 

 

10 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

It encourages the buyer to do a little research themselves.

....

effectivly be told ..."go do some homework and get back to us then we can help befor u spend $1500-$2000"

People aren't going to do that. They're just going to shop elsewhere, and as evidenced by the video there are other retailers out there offering the same product who are willing to spend the time to ask the right questions and help the customer choose a product that will suit their needs. Those people will get the sale while the company that is too lazy to help the customer will get nothing.

 

These system integrators should use this LTT video as a training video on day one as a guide to the do's and don'ts of how to help a customer name a purchase.

[Streetguru]

29 minutes ago, seon123 said:

 

If it's going to someone who's only doing 1080p 60hz gaming they'd get by just fine on a $700-800 PC

[TheParkanyi]

I hope, there'll be an update video, where they test these machines. I don't really know, why some of these sellers think, that a person willing to spend half of it's monthly income don't have the right to know what components of the PC. Also, I don't understand, why companies think, making a fool of a person ("buy a Z390 boars, 'cause it's faster" or "buy a 120GB SSD it'll be enough"... GTA V is more than 70GB alone, for f*cks sake!!!!) is a good marketing plan... I was disappointed seeing my home countries' (Hungary FYI) system builders companies recommendations, but this is madness...

 

Look at this for example. OK, it's shipped with a B360 mobo, but you can call them to upgrade, and it'll be still under 2000 CAD (the price you see at the bottom is after a 25% VAT)

 

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, TheParkanyi said:

 

Wonder if they did their testing with the side panel off

[seon123]

Just now, Streetguru said:

If it's going to someone who's only doing 1080p 60hz gaming they'd get by just fine on a $700-800 PC

Well, yes. That would be an I5/R5 + 1060/580 system? I just like comparing what you get in a prebuilt Vs what you get by building yourself. 

I wouldn't be too surprised if at least one of the builds is a $700-800 PC that's marked up a ton. 

[TheParkanyi]

3 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Wonder if they did their testing with the side panel off

Good question, but I think no, because then, they'd get a hell lot of RMA-s. (we're picky AF )

[Razor512]

A prebuild pretty much never gives you extra warranty service.

The system integrators save money by getting volume discounts on components that are further discounted by not having any manufacturer warranty. They then offer an all encompassing 1-2 year warranty, which is less than the retail warranty for virtually every component in the system (except the CD drive).

 

If you build a PC yourself, you get far longer warranties, and best of all, a lower risk of downtime should an RMA be needed, since the vast majority of system integrators will want you to send the entire tower in if something goes wrong (in many case, you pay for shipping to them, which can get expensive for a desktop PC).

 

Build a PC yourself and get:

• 3-5 year warranty on the motherboard.
• 3 year warranty on the CPU.
• 5+ year warranty on the heatsink.
• Lifetime warranty on the RAM
• 3+ year warranty on the video card.
• 5-10+ year warranty on the power supply
• 2+ year warranty on the case
• 6 year warranty on most fans.

 

 

[TheParkanyi]

4 minutes ago, Razor512 said:

A prebuild pretty much never gives you extra warranty service.

The system integrators save money by getting volume discounts on components that are further discounted by not having any manufacturer warranty. They then offer an all encompassing 1-2 year warranty, which is less than the retail warranty for virtually every component in the system (except the CD drive).

 

If you build a PC yourself, you get far longer warranties, and best of all, a lower risk of downtime should an RMA be needed, since the vast majority of system integrators will want you to send the entire tower in if something goes wrong (in many case, you pay for shipping to them, which can get expensive for a desktop PC).

 

Build a PC yourself and get:

• 3-5 year warranty on the motherboard.
• 3 year warranty on the CPU.
• 5+ year warranty on the heatsink.
• Lifetime warranty on the RAM
• 3+ year warranty on the video card.
• 5-10+ year warranty on the power supply
• 2+ year warranty on the case
• 6 year warranty on most fans.

 

 

It's not about the warranty, but that people ar afraid to build themselves. Imagine someone having it's first desktop ever. For example, one of my friends have a laptop, and her family has a 10-15 years old desktop. If she want's to get a new one, she won't play with hundreds of dollars worth components, she'll pass the hassle to a system builder. The sad thing is these people can be fooled. And most of the tested companies tried to.

[snagals]

Compared to where I live most of those were good or even great sales reps.

 

Here when I go to some shop (big or small ones the situation is pretty much the same ) they directly lie about the thing they want to sell me. Something like the 10x of the K CPU.

They always use heavy terminology that they do not understand with the idea to look like some geniuses and make comments like: this laptop has a quad core and this is dual core so better buy the one with four cores "Its newer and better technology" (quad celeron 1.3GHz vs i5 4 GHz).

 

The repair shops are even worse. They explain you that you are using the pc wrong and give you advice that are completely obsolete and wrong. And again the heavy terminology with the idea to sell you some junk hardware that they cannot sell to anyone.

 

In general when I talk to people I try not to use computer terms and I sometimes like to pretend I know nothing when I am shopping. I listen to them for 10-15 minutes explaining to me about headphones using network and all you can imagine (but not audio) terms and I keep quiet.

 

When I get bored I ask them to send me a link to the product to my email so I can think about it. They ask how it is. And I spell it IT@(a big company in the region).com. 

 

The look they make when they recall how much stupid stuff they said is priceless. 

 

But its quite often when people bring me their laptop that is 3-4 days old and is slower than a snail and I have to explain them its trash.........

[SolarNova]

20 minutes ago, Spotty said:

If you've ever worked in sales or retail you will know that while some customers come in knowing exactly what they want, other customers rely on you for assistance. That's why these people on the phone are called "sales assistants" or "customer support". 

 

If the customer doesn't know what product they want, then you ask questions about what they want the product to do, what their budget is, and then use your expertise and product knowledge to help the customer choose something that is right for their needs. 

 

They straight up lost a sale because they weren't willing to help the customer. 

 

People aren't going to do that. They're just going to shop elsewhere, and as evidenced by the video there are other retailers out there offering the same product who are willing to spend the time to ask the right questions and help the customer choose a product that will suit their needs. Those people will get the sale while the company that is too lazy to help the customer will get nothing.

 

These system integrators should use this LTT video as a training video on day one as a guide to the do's and don'ts of how to help a customer name a purchase.

Not sure your getitng my point.

 

We, as consumers ..dont care about if 1 company gets a sale and another doesnt. We care for our interests. I dont want to ask a sales rep for advice or recommendations ..they are there to sell ..to get ur money, they cant be trusted. 

So if a system builder straight up turns around to me and says .."sorry our policy is to not give out recommendations" ..ill smile and say "good to know.. ur now top of my list to buy from" ..becouse they have chosen to straight up avoid dodgy sales practices entirly ..they cant even be accused of it.

 

The smart person doesnt ask the seller for advice on a product .they find out themselves from other sources that dont have an insentive to feed you lies..or at best missguided or inaccurate information.

[Edzel Yago]

Since a few people have already asked:

 

Yes. There will be follow-ups to this video with regards to the build/specs/value/and more customer support fun.

[Luscious]

Alienware and Dell are at the bottom of the barrel. The battery in my XPS 13 decided to GET FAT after just two years and needed replacing. DELL PARTS STORE REFUSES TO SELL REPLACEMENT BATTERIES TO END USERS. Their answer is for you to be without your device for 14 days while you send it in and have some monkey with a screwdriver do the swap that takes maybe 15 minutes.

 

Note to Dell - I know how to replace a battery.

Note as well to Dell - refusing to sell replacement parts when those same user-replaceable wear and tear parts fail will guarantee you lose your customers.

 

As for their phone support, any company that sets up shop in a country where they cannot answer their own phones in the same country is a company that should be avoided. Outsourcing has proven to be a cost cutting disaster based on consumer dissatisfaction, language barrier issues and the fact that the person on the other end doesn't understand a clue about where the actual person buying the item is living. Let's not even get into the practice of deceiving customers by giving them deliberately false information to mislead them, make them pay for things they don't need or in the worst case send them the completely wrong item. When the guy taking the call half a world away is WORKING PURELY OFF COMMISSION thanks to his base pay being next to ZERO and the need to meet quotas or rewards to compete with his colleagues... the paying customer's needs becomes irrelevant.

 

Michael Dell, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Spotty]

41 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

Not sure your getitng my point.

 

We, as consumers ..dont care about if 1 company gets a sale and another doesnt. We care for our interests. I dont want to ask a sales rep for advice or recommendations ..they are there to sell ..to get ur money, they cant be trusted. 

So if a system builder straight up turns around to me and says .."sorry our policy is to not give out recommendations" ..ill smile and say "good to know.. ur now top of my list to buy from" ..becouse they have chosen to straight up avoid dodgy sales practices entirly ..they cant even be accused of it.

 

The smart person doesnt ask the seller for advice on a product .they find out themselves from other sources that dont have an insentive to feed you lies..or at best missguided or inaccurate information.

I don't think you're getting my point. Have you ever worked in retail or sales?

 

I used to work as a product expert in a liquor store. My job was to recommend customers what product they should buy. Every single day customers would come in and say things like "Uhhh, yeah... I'm having people over for dinner tonight and I need a wine... I don't drink that much... so uhh what's a nice wine?"
I would ask questions such as "What will you be serving for dinner?", "Do you know if the people you're having over enjoy red wine or white wine?", "How many people are attending?", "How much did you want to spend?". I would listen to what the customer tells me and then I would use my product knowledge to recommend something that would suit their needs, and I'd give them extra advice such as what temperature to serve it, how many bottles they should have for the number of people they're serving, etc.

 

Did I ever give bad recommendations and the customer got home, cracked it open and didn't like what I sold them? Probably... But that's because taste is subjective and the customer might have told me they like really heavy oaky wines when in fact they really like fresh and fruity wines. There were plenty of times when customers would come back to the store a few days later just to thank me for the recommendation I gave, or to buy a couple of boxes of whatever I sold them because they liked it that much. Those customers would come back again, and again, and again because they know they get good service and the staff are helpful...

 

If I told the customer "I don't give recommendations, go figure it out for yourself" that customer would walk out of the store and never come back.
 

Spoiler

Don't try to argue that it's different because people spend more on a prebuilt PC than they spend on a bottle of wine so they don't need to do research before buying, because I've sold bottles of wine & whisky that cost hundreds or even several thousands of dollars to people who hadn't even heard the name on the label before walking in to the store. (Common for stuff like wedding or anniversary gifts where someone wants to give a friend or family member a special gift. Also used to get professionals come in and want to spend $1000 on a bottle of wine to give to a client or partner and would be paying through company card anyway so didn't give a shit how much it cost as long as it would impress whoever they were giving it to in order to seal the deal.)

 

I didn't get commission so I recommended what I thought the customer would actually like based on the information they provided, not whatever gave me the biggest bonus. Not all sales people are sleazy slimeballs looking to milk you for all you're worth. Some just like to help.