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Introduction: By the popular concept of @Aniallation, who since retired from the forum, the "How many watts do I need" is still one of the most asked question by many people wanting to build a PC. By similar methodology, here a simple guideline to how much your PC would need, assuming the quality of the PSU itself is good. These numbers are estimations based off a stress maximum load, one you will likely never reach in normal use. Take these numbers as a guideline, but feel free to ask on the forum itself if you're still not sure what you need with your exact configuration. Methodology: CPU+GPU+50=estimated wattage, chosen worst case out of the configs Low-end APU system: Midrange APU system: Low-end gaming: Midrange gaming: Mid-high gaming: High-end gaming: High-end 3080 gaming: High-End 3090 gaming: Low-end hedt/tr: Midrange hedt/tr: High-end hedt/tr: Ultra high-end hedt/tr: CPU power consumption: GPU Power Consumption: License
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so i'm facing this weird issue, when electricity goes out, my pc restarts even if it's connected to ups, to fix this issue o upgraded the ups/inverter from 650w to 900w output connected with 150ah tubular battery. as i thought the inverter/ups probably can't supply enough power but i was wrong. i switched off the main supply and tested pc at max load and pc did not shut down even once and ran just fine. so i wonder could it be my psu? unable to handle sudden power cut (antec neo eco 550w) after doing some research on google i found it had old topology. note: pc does not restarts due to power cut when sitting on ideal only when i'm gaming.
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Introduction Today I'm going to break down what are in my eyes the most important parts of the Intel ATX Power Supply Specification, but to a more understandable level. I’ll link the full specification below. This document will be based on ATX Design Guide June 2018, revision 002 and will include some outside info. 2.1 Processor Configurations - Recommended This paragraph talks about the second 12v rail, meant only for the CPU. Intel recommends how much current it should allow before shutting down for some of their TDP's. I noted an example of a CPU with the TDP to give an idea, and the amount of watts that would be on this rail. PSU 12V2 Capacity Recommendations Processor TDP Continous Current Peak Current 165w (9980XE) 37.5A (450w) 45.0A (540w) 140w (7900x) 28.0A (336w) 39.0A (468w) 95w (9900k) 22.0A (264w) 29.0A (348w) 65w (9400) 21.0A (252w) 28.0A (336) 35w (9100) 13.0A (156w) 16.5A (198w) you could manually calculate this the following two ways: 12v2 Continuous Current = (SoC sustained Power / VRM efficiency) / 11.4v 12v2 Continuous Current = (SoC Peak Power / VRM efficiency) / 11.4v 3.1: AC Input - Required This part goes into detail regarding what voltages the PSU should be able to handle as input or AC current. If it's rated for 115v, it doesn't mean it can't handle a spike to 130v for example. The two most important ones are listed below in a tableThis part goes into detail regarding what voltages the PSU should be able to handle as input or AC current. If it's rated for 115v, it doesn't mean it can't handle a spike to 130v for example. The two most important ones are listed below in a table. Voltage Minimum Nominal Maximum 115v AC 90v 115v 135v 230v AC 180v 230v 265v 3.1.1: Input Over Current Protection - Required Many will think about Over Current Protection with this, but it's not quite the same, since that's on the other side of the PSU. This follows a similar idea, but on the AC side. It uses fuses to protect the PSU from too high current on the AC side in case of a PSU hardware failure. 3.1.2 Inrush Current - Required Inrush current is the high input current that a PSU or other electrical device pulls for an instant when turning on. Usually, this is caused by charging capacitors It is required to limit it, since you could trip a breaker or even damage the PSU itself without it. 3.1.3: Input Under Voltage - Required Many will again think of the DC side protection, but this is when voltage would drop below the minimum shown in the table above. So if it drops below 90v for 115v or 180v for 230v it will shut itself down to limit damage done to the PSU. 3.2.1: DC Voltage Regulation - Required Now we're going to the other side, the output or DC side. These have to stay inside a margin of 5-10% depending on the rail. You can see this below in a table. Output Range Minimum Nominal Maximum +12V 5% +11.40V +12.00V +12.60V +5V 5% +4.75V +5.00V +5.25V +3.3V 5% +3.14V +3.30V +3.47V +5VSB 5% +4.75V +5.00V +5.25V -12V 10% -10.80V -12.00V -13.20V 3.2.5: Output Ripple Noise - Required Ripple is the AC noise that's still left after conversion to DC voltage. This you should try to keep as low as possible, but Intel set some limits to this in their specification. In the first table you can see Intel's limits, in the second what I personally consider for a PSU within normal operation range, but it's a lot harder to meet. Intel: Output Maximum Ripple +12V 120mV +5V 50mV +3.3V 50mV -12V 120mV +5VSB 50mV Personal: Output Maximum Ripple +12V 50mV +5V 30mV +3.3V 30mV -12V 50mV +5VSB 30mV 3.2.8: +5v DC / +3.3v DC Power Sequencing - Required DC Power Sequencing is the time it has to take between certain rails to start up. This is best explained by looking at the image Intel provides for this. As you can see here, the 3.3v line should always be lower than the others, because of the way a system would boot up. If this fails by a bigger margin, the system won't power on. The impact of a smaller fail is unknown to me. 3.2.9: Voltage Hold-Up Time - Required Voltage hold-up time is simply said that a PSU should be able to at least supply it's maximum rated continuous load for 17ms if the AC input suddenly shuts off. Intel requires this to be at a minimum load of 0A. This does not mean that this will prevent it from cutting power on a longer run. A longer hold-up time (let's say for example 23ms) won't improve this for users except if they own a UPS, as this is the time a good UPS would be able to continue operation. 3.3.1: PWR_OK - Required PWR_OK or Power Good is a signal the PSU sends that the 12V, 5V and 3.3V rails are within limits and that there's enough energy left in the converter to supply it with the specified load. If this signal indicates differently, the PSU or motherboard will shut itself down. 3.3.4: +5VSB - Required 5 Volt StandBy (5VSB) is a rail that supplies power to components when the system isn't powered up. This would for example be to keep motherboard LEDs on, allow for Wake on LAN to work or power USB devices. 3.5.1: Over Voltage Protection (OVP) - Required Over Voltage Protection or OVP is a protection against a too high voltage on a rail. This is technically required for everything but the 5VSB, but is highly recommended to be present there as well. It's generally integrated into the protection IC. In the table below you can see the voltages Intel recommends to set it to. Output Minimum Nominal Maximum +12V 13.40V 15.00V 15.60V +5V 5.74V 6.30V 7.00V +3.3V 3.76V 4.20V 4.30V +5VSB 5.74V 6.30V 7.00V 3.5.2: Short Circuit Protection (SCP) - Required Short Circuit Protection or SCP measures the resistance on each rail, and will shut down when resistance is lower than 0.1 Ohms. Generally this goes combined with OPP, OCP, OVP and UVP. It's generally integrated into the protection IC, and is required on ATX spec, with separate circuits per rail. 3.5.4: Over Current Protection (OCP) - Required The term Over Current Protection or OCP has two types of protection included into the name, being OCP and OPP. Over Power Protection or OPP is a protection that will shut down the PSU when too much power on all rails combined is drawn, generally this is between 110 and 140% of the advertised wattage. This is a protection that works as a limit, shutting down when a certain point is reached, but doesn't actively monitor the amount of current. It's generally integrated into the PWM controller. Over Current Protection or OCP has the same purpose, but a different concept than OPP. OCP will generally be faster than OPP, since it uses shunt resistors to check the amount of current on each individual rail, and will shut down if a certain point is reached. OCP on 12V is generally only found on PSUs with multiple rails, since OPP can handle a single rail just fine. It's generally integrated into the protection IC combined with shunt resistors. To explain the difference very simply is that OPP is a limit for the whole rail and OCP is a more continuous check of every single rail. 3.5.5 Over Temperature Protection (OTP) - Required Over Temperature Protection or OTP protects the PSU against overheating,for example due to a fan failure. it's generally a thermistor combined with a protection IC that supports this, but there have also been cases where it was integrated into the fan controller. Most reviewers stop measuring after 200°C, but it depends on the place the thermistor is integrated what recommended limits are. 3.5.7: Separate Current Limit for 12V2 - Recommended This is basically a different wording for multirail. Multi rail these days aren’t physical rails, rather they have multiple points where they measure the current (generally 2-8). It can shut down the PSU earlier to protect itself, with a lower chance of burning through connectors and/or cables with a catastrophic failure. 3.5.9: Power Supply Efficiency for Energy Regulations, Energy Star and CEC PC Computers with High Expandability Score - Recommended This part of the documentation includes 3 examples of efficiency requirements, being the ones from Energy Star, CEC and Efficiency for Energy Regulations. I'll include the ones from Cybenetics and 80+ as a comparison. Efficiency for Energy Loading Full load (100%) Typical load (50%) Light load (20%) Required minimum 70% 72% 65% Energy Star (version 6.1/7.0) Loading Full load (100%) Typical load (50%) Light load (20%) Minimum (V6.1) 82% 85% 82% Minimum (V7.0) 87% 90% 87% CEC Loading Full load (100%) Typical load (50%) Light load (20%) Minimum (115v) 87% 90% 87% Minimum (230v) 88% 92% 88% Cybenetics Efficiency levels (115V) Efficiency 5VSB Efficiency A++ =>94% - <97% >79% A+ =>91% - <94% >77% A =>88% - <91% >75% A- =>85% - <88% >73% Standard =>82% - <85% >71% Efficiency levels (230v) Efficiency 5VSB Efficiency A++ =>96% >78% A+ =>93% - <96% >76% A =>90% - <93% >74% A- =>87% - <90% >72% Standard =>84% - <87% >70% 80 plus Rating 10% (very low load) 20% (low load) 50% (typical load) 100% (Full load) 80+ 115v 80% 80% 80% 80+ 230v 82% 85% 82% 80+ Bronze 115v 82% 85% 82% 80+ Bronze 230v 85% 88% 85% 80+ Silver 115v 85% 88% 85% 80+ Silver 230v 87% 90% 87% 80+ Gold 115v 85% 89% 85% 80+ Gold 230v 90% 92% 89% 80+ Platinum 115v 90% 94% 89% 80+ Platinum 230v 92% 94% 90% 80+ Titanium 115v 90% 92% 94% 90% 80+ Titanium 230v 90% 94% 96% 94% 4.2.1: AC Connector - Required In this part Intel mentions a IEC 320 or equivalent plug, which might sound complicated, but this is just the name of the well known 3-pin plug you find on most PSUs With that it needs to have a dedicated on/off switch next to it. 4.2.2.1: Main Power Connector - Required orange=3.3v blue=-12v black=ground/communication green=power on red=5v gray=power good purple=5vsb yellow=12v the main power connector, generally called 24 pin connector because of it's 20+4 pins supplies its power via the motherboard to many components, including part of the GPU, memory, the motherboard itself and so on. 4.2.2.2: Peripheral Connectors - Required yellow=12v black=ground/communicaton red=5v Peripheral connectors, or better known as the Molex standard is a connector that's getting more and more rare in favor of other connectors these days. It's used on old GPUs, expansion cards and so on. Fun thing is that Molex was the base for many connectors, including PCI-E, EPS and ATX Main Power. They’re part of the so-called Micro Fit series. 4.2.2.4: PCI-Express (PCI-E) Graphics Card Connector - Required yellow=12v black=communication/ground The PCI-E Graphics Card Connector, or generally called PCI-E connector supplies power to the GPU. A 6 pin is rated for up to 75W, while the 8 pin goes up to 150W. 4.2.2.5: +12V Power Connector - Required yellow=12v black=communication/ground The +12V power connector or 8 (4+4) pin connector is a cable that provides current to the VRM, which then supplies it to the CPU. It follows the EPS standard. 4.2.2.6: Serial ATA (SATA) Connectors - Required orange=3.3v black=communication/ground red=5v yellow=12v Serial ATA or SATA power is mostly used for drives using the SATA standard, but can be used for other things as well. 6.0: Environmental - Recommended A PSU has to be able to: Operate at +10 to +50 degrees Celsius at full load. Survive -40 to +70 degrees Celsius while not operating Operate at a humidity up to 85% Survive a humidity up to 95% while not operating Operate at up to 3.048 meters high Survive non-operational at up to 15.240 meters high Survive a mechanical shock of 50 grams while not operating 8.4: Safety - Required Should a component failure occur, the power supply should not exhibit any of the following: Flame Excessive smoke Burnt PCB Fused PCB conductor Unusual noise Emission of molten material Fail to ground 9.1: Reliablity - Recommended This is relatively simple. Make a unit that's expected to work at least for it's rated lifetime (generally by warranty) by selecting the right components. This would mainly include capacitor and fan lifetime and reliability. 10.0-15.0: CFX12V/LFX12V/ATX12/SFX12V/TFX12V/FLEX ATX Specific Guidelines - Required The last paragraph goes into the many shapes you find power supplies in. here a quick breakdown CFX12V: CFX is a formfactor only really used in SFF sized prebuilts. It's simply said an ATX sized PSU with a cut in it. ATX12V: Standardized formfactor PSU, which is the most common to find. SFX12V: A formfactor for small sized PSUs for use with SFF builds. SFX-L12V: A slightly bigger version of SFX, which allows a 120mm fan to fit up top TFX12V: A formfactor closer to server PSUs in its shape. These are rare to find, mostly in office/HTPCs, but even there SFX is getting more common. FLEX ATX: A formfactor mostly used in small cases, but just like TFX hard to find as SFX becomes more common From Left to right: SFX -> SFX-L -> ATX Sources: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/power-supply-design-guide-june.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1154199-psu-protections-what-do-they-help-against-and-how-do-they-work/ https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=eta_9-51-40 Credit: @sowon Moritz Plattner - Tech-review.de License
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These days the 12v is known to power almost everything: GPUs, CPUs, fans, part of the motherboard, sometimes DRAM (but is generally still 3.3v) and some PCs already fully work with it (converting it on the motherboard normally). This used to be different, with 5v being much more important than it used to be. From almost everything on the board, these days it's main use is powering storage. In this earlier era the "group regulation" design was made, and used for many years, even today on budget units from various popular companies including at the time of writing: Be Quiet - Pure Power 11 (300-350w only) Cooler Master - Masterwatt Lite Corsair - VS 2017 EVGA - W1, N1, N2, BT FSP Hexa+, Hyper, Hammer, Raider, part of Aurum Seasonic - S12ii/M12ii Thermaltake - Smart 80+ Xilence - Performance C and many others, which are at the time of writing still widely available. Problem 1: Group regulation and crossloads the main problem with group regulated units is that it regulates 12v and 5v together. as noted above these days the only big use for 5v is part of the motherboard and storage, which keeps the load on it quite low, while modern systems have the heaviest components on 12v. In the PSU world we use the word "crossload" for loading up one rail a lot, while the others little to none (either from 3.3/5/12v). When the 12v is loaded up far enough, the controller can't keep the 5v in control, as they're reported together and starts to go out of ATX specification as the controller thinks it's only rising the 12v. especially since some of the units above don't have undervoltage protection, this can have results from shorter lifespan of components to in very bad cases burnt cables. ATX specification only allows a difference up to 5% between rails. They can also fail ATX specification easily when the minor (3.3/5v) are loaded up, while the 12v is kept at the minimal 0.1a Problem 2: Low load operation The PSU is required to output voltages while the 12v is at only 0.05a, which is for most group regulated units impossible to do with the crossloading problems mentioned above. not meeting this is again a fail for ATX specification for Haswell. Examples: Group regulated units failing ATX specification http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2018/11/12/evga-750n1-750w-power-supply/3/ http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2018/10/08/cooler-master-masterwatt-lite-600w-230v-power-supply/3/ How do I recognize a group regulated unit? The first way (if you have internal shots) is to look at the number of regulation coils. if two are present, it's a group regulated unit, at 3 it's individually regulated. The big coil is used for 12v/5v, the smaller for 3.3v. The second indication that a PSU is group regulated is to look at the power distribution label. If the PSU says it can output a total a 600w but the 12v says it only outputs 400w, then that's an indication that it's group regulated. Here's some images which hopefully provide additionally clarity to those that don't know. There are two sides to a PSU. Primary and Secondary. Won't go into details on the specifics here, The two coils boxed in red are located on the secondary side. 12v and 5v are regulated on the bigger coil and the small coil has 3.3v. Now a thing to consider here is that there is a secondary topology known as Dual Mag Amp, which has two magamp coils. Better than group regulation from a performance standpoint, but in general, it's not very efficient. I think the most you can achieve is bronze efficiency. Maybe silver. It can be easy to confused the two topologies. Now, sometimes, group regulation could use one coil. I've seen a few very old PSUs with just the one coil. (credit to JonnyGuru.com for this image.) Below is a Corsair CX450, Boxed in red are the DC-DC converters. Now, this example shows the coils covered. But usually, the coils are exposed and mounted a daughter board(s). These regulate the minor rail outputs while the 12v is independently regulated. Final verdict If you can, get a DC-DC unit, or at least something individually regulated. If you can't, keept the 12v at a minimal level, for example not combining it with high end or even mid-low GPU's or powerful CPUs. They're simply not made for modern component use. License: Credit: @PSUGuru
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Introduction This time I'm doing a short bit on a couple of topologies and methods of regulation, and their up- and downsides. A short conclusion will be written below, so you don't have to read the whole thing to make your PSU choice. Topologies - Double Forward - Active Clamp Reset Forward (ACRF) - LLC Resonant Double Forward Double forward or two switch forward is a single forward configuration with 2, rather than 1 MOSFET to keep the core from running into saturation (Vishay) D= Diode Q= MOSFET T= Transformer Cin= Voltage in Upsides: - cheap Downsides: - only scales up to 750w - not meant for high efficiency PSUs, as it generally only goes up to 80+ bronze - due to hard switching more likely to whine Active Clamp Reset Forward (ACRF) ACRF is a topology close to Double forward, but unlike Double forward is able to continue switching without load being applied, making it more efficient, but still use hard switching. mostly produced by FSP Upsides: - relatively cheap - shown to be scalable up to 1000w Downsides: - more expensive than Double forward - efficient enough only to meet 80+ gold - due to hard switching likely to whine, but less than Double forward - mediocre design cause worse transient response LLC Resonant Converter LLC stands for L (inductor), L (transformer primary which is an inductor, too) and C (capacitor). There are two inductors (LL) and a capacitor (C) used which form a resonant circuit . It's made out of 5 parts, in case of a Half-bridge (two switching FETs, transformer, inductor and capacitor). (Texas Instruments) Vin=Voltage in Q=MOSFET Vsq= unipolar square-wave voltage Cr= resonant capacitor Lm= inductor D= Diode Upsides: - efficient enough to (generally) meet up to 80+ Titanium - low chance of whining - high scaling in wattage Downsides: - most expensive Regulations - Group regulation - Double Mag Amp - DC-DC Group Regulation I went into group regulation and why it's a problem before here. It uses two coils, a big and a smaller one. The big one will regulate 12v and 5v, while the smaller one will regulate 3.3v. Thus, because the controller tracks both 12v and 5v rails as a whole, in crossload situations (if the load on one of them is high, while the other is low) voltages can go out of nominal (5% tolerance by ATX specifications). Specifically, This is common situation with modern PCs that, first, support C6/C7 sleep states, in which 5V rail get almost no load while 12V rail still loads relatively high, and second, modern PCs generally don’t load 5V rail much even when not in standby, because the only hardware that still uses it are HDDs and SATA SSDs, while 12V rail can be loaded very high, especially with high-end GPUs. This is especially troublesome with fast peaks of modern GPUs, which switch between 50 and 450 Watt multiple times per second. If the output capacitors can not buffer that (particularly in older units), the main regulator has to follow those peaks - altering also the 5 Volt output voltage with it. This leads to strong 5 Volt fluctuations even if there is little load on the rail. (Jonnyguru) Upsides: - cheap to produce Downsides: - voltage can easily get out of spec due to regulating 12v and 5v together - generally doesn't meet c6/c7 sleep states or can’t keep voltages in specs in crossload situations associated with them - not recommended for anything beyond an APU system Double Mag Amp Double mag amp is one of the two ways of an "independent" regulation, in this case regulated from the secondary winding, using an inductor to step down the current to either 5v or 3.3v. This is relatively uncommon with the introduction of DC-DC, since this is less efficient. An example where this is still used would be Seasonic's S12iii. Also, it can not work with an unloaded output (luckily a situation that doesn’t occur in a normal PC). The picture below marks the 3 coils compared to two on group regulation, by which you can see it's a double mag amp (in this case the s12 based corsair TX 80+) (Anandtech) Upsides: - relatively cheap - individually regulated Downsides: - needs more load to work, hence generally not coming higher than 80+ bronze - low efficiency compared to DC-DC DC-DC DC-DC uses a similar, yet quite different technique to double mag amp. it does share that it uses independent regulation, but does it in a different way. It uses buck step-down converters to lower the voltage directly from 12v to 5v or 3.3v. This is more efficient, and needs less load to function. LLC PSUs can even work properly without any hardware attached on a rail, if necessary. On the picture below i marked a dc-dc converter, in this case on a Seasonic Focus PX (Relaxedtech) Upsides: - individually regulated - very efficient, since it can function with less load - most common in modern PSUs Downsides: - most expensive Verdict: In the most ideal situation you get a DC-DC unit with an LLC Resonant Converter, but due to budget this might not always be possible. APU system: preferably DC-DC, any topology Low-end gaming system: DC-DC, ACRF or LLC midrange-high end gaming system: DC-DC with LLC Sources: https://www.ti.com/seclit/ml/slup263/slup263.pdf https://www.vishay.com/docs/91616/twoswitch.pdf https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193-14.html https://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/psu/160/5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/2450/3 https://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/seasonic/focus-plus-ssr-850px/1 http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slup129/slup129.pdf License: Credit: Moritz Plattner - Tech-review.de @Juular
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