Cwell88

I've been looking at one of the Lenovo Legion 5s with the AMD CPU and a 1660ti graphics card. I don't play a TON of games, so that one seems a reasonable price for a reasonably powerful PC. If you get an AMD + 2060 combo, I think you're in good territory just so long as you're not buying it for ray tracing, because even the desktop variants are a little under-powered in that department. And Lenovo seems to have a strong rep for quality builds and good cooling.

The more I read, the more I'm stupefied that Intel doesn't have a better solution than "nerf every Intel chip." I decided to try my hand at undervolting my old 4810mq and it's crazy how much it improves thermals without impacting clock speeds at all. Well at least MSI seems to have let their users work around it. Thanks for the reply!

Hi All, Despite the Plundervolt fiasco and Intel's decision to take away undervolting as a security measure, MSI laptops continue to ship with BIOS's that allow for undervolting via (I'm not kidding) a special keystroke code while in BIOS (see video below). This apparently works for laptops sold just last month and it includes the GS66 and GL65 models, meaning you can tinker with the i7-10750H and get some respectable results with minor adjustments. But as Jarrod points out in his video, there's absolutely no warning attached to this method and that made me wonder: what are the risks involved in relation to the Plundervolt exploits? I'm assuming Intel locked up BIOS options for a good reason, but this workaround seems relatively popular among MSI users and there's almost no discussion of the risks in any of the forums I've visited (looks like some Dell and Lenovo users can do something similar with a BIOS hack that I don't completely understand; it's certainly much harder compared to the MSI keystroke trick). So does anyone here have any thoughts about going around Intel's "solution?" With respect to plundervolt, are users better off using Throttlestop vs. XTU vs. the BIOS for undervolting if they decide to do it? I've had a hard time understanding exactly how Plundervolt works (seems there is a lot misinformation out there - some people claim you need to be at the computer physically to make it work, which seems plainly wrong), but I'd love to play around this feature just because it seems like fun. Is it a really bad idea where protecting your data is concerned?

Thanks for your reply! I'm beginning to think the same way. As long as thermal throttling isn't driving the performance of the computer down, then maybe 80+ ad 90+ temps on laptops aren't such a big deal. I'd like my laptop to last for 5 years if possible since I don't have a ton of money, but my old MSI is still kicking after 6 years of audio editing, gaming, and generally pushing it to its limits. If the build is solid, I guess there's no reason to be alarmed by the occasional 90-95 degree spike. The biggest problems I've encountered with my last two laptops has been either the surface temperature on the laptop (the top of the G14 around the function keys felt like an oven after just 10 minutes of random benchmarks) or the temperature of the power supply after heavy use (the Omen 15 2020 brick literally burned my hand after 30 minutes of playing around in Forza 4). As the internals get more and more powerful and the chassis get smaller and smaller, I become more concerned about heat on the keyboard or potential power-related issues, like hot batteries or whatever the hell happened to my Omen that caused its brick to become a frying pan. Thanks again for the reply. It's helped me think through which laptop I might actually buy now that I've had bad experiences with a couple. Surface temps are on my radar more than they were... as well as a decent power supply. So glad that thing didn't burn my place up.

I don't mind warm temps and have been comfortable with things running above 90 degrees from time to time. I don't even mind the loud fans, especially since my system is very quiet when I browse the net, use Office, watch videos, listen to music, etc. I think it makes sense to pull as much juice from the thing as possible, especially if it's built to survive that kind of heat. But it leaves me wondering about users who buy $1,500 USD laptops, then underclock them in order to keep temperatures in the 70s or 80s. Part of me thinks the limits for these things have changed, but that hasn't really been acknowledged in a public way, which is why that Intel response was so interesting: "hey, uh... we don't release these things and let them bake because they can't handle it." I've had two laptops crap out on me recently, both related to heat issues (a G14 and an HP Omen 15 2020 model), but I feel like those most be the exception to the rule given how positively they've been received. And both DEFINITELY heat up. The G14's surface gets hot enough near the panel that I'm convinced you could cook on that thing.

Hi All, This is my first post here, so I hope I have the right forum. It's sort of a general subject in that it involves multiple component interaction and general/received wisdom about laptop cooling. I just finished watching Linus's video on that Intel sample laptop and was extremely intrigued by the letter he received from the Intel engineer who was happy to see high temps on the 11th generation CPU inside. Here's the video in case you want to take a quick look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfd3cO2gVHE - the CPU heat comment begins at 11:30 and is in relation to the XPS review. Apparently Intel engineers feel that running at 100 degrees C is optimal for CPU performance and that CPU heat that high doesn't impact the survival of their CPUs over their lifetimes. The comment mentions "leaving performance on the table" at lower temps. I'd guess AMD engineers would say the same thing. This is especially relevant to me right now because my old MSI GT70 2PC is, after six solid years, ready for retirement. The i7-4810MQ in it is still great for basic photo, audio, and browsing tasks, but the GTX 870m is not great for newer games. Looking at new laptop reviews and discussion, especially on Reddit, the practice of undervolting new CPUs seems incredibly common, especially on gaming laptops where temps regularly hit 90+ degrees on many models. It seems crazy to me that undervolting would be necessary on these new powerful CPUs, especially since their boost clock speeds are part of the appeal: when needed they can really fly. At the same time, keeping temps below 90 degrees C is something I've always heard is desirable. Get above that temperature and you risk component failure. On top of that, I had to return a Zephyrus G14 because the exterior got hot enough to nearly burn me when I touched some of the function keys. The top side of that thing near the monitor gets HOT HOT HOT. But is that still the case in 2020? I decided to load up Dark Souls III, which is the last AAA title I could get to work on my MSI machine, and realized that I was regularly peaking at 95 degrees on my CPU and roughly 89 or 90 on my GPU, depending on what part of the game I was in (this after just 20 minutes). I imagine other games have pushed my machine to that level in the past and I just never noticed (even Wasteland 2 gets me into the high 80s). And yet, this thing is six years old and could continue to work for photo editing and audio production with very few issues. Maybe some slow down here and there, but nothing that constitutes component failure. In case anyone is curious, I clean my fan and grills on the regular. And despite the general consensus about 90 degrees as an upper limit, newer MSI, Asus, Acer, and HP machines seem designed for 90+ temperatures. Even with the newer cooling systems that could push a small motorboat through the swamp. What do you all think about running your laptops at those temps? Is it time to update our thinking about temp limits and component failure, at least where mobile processors are concerned? Appreciate any and all discussion on the topic, and of course I'd love to see Linus and the team discuss this subject if they happen to read this and feel inspired. Cheers!