Mezoxin

which is the ultimate  audio setup for competitive Esports gaming : studio speakers vs headphones , in terms of affordability and practicality of course the headphone would be easier , but we see a lot of videos about building the dream gaming room where cost is not a concern  ,in that  scenario a well placed studio speakers should be superior as they offer real soundstaging when compared to headphones , but to achieve it you need proper acoustic room treatment and audio equipment placement that may not be ideal for your room 
 

@Juular   In short , trust only credible reviewers not select , and there is no decent psu that isn’t reviewed by Aris btw, he has the biggest database of psu reviews , and I didn’t say disregard multirail , I said with how it’s currently implemented and the actual benefit it gives us , then it shouldn’t be a demand for top tier , That makes the tier rate a BitFenix formula higher than prime titanium  because that is just ridiculous 

again would you explain why 60 A ?
the same thing would happen ( but needs more time) when you introduce a sustained 30-35A to most pcie cable  with 12v OCP set at 40A , same thing would happen when you overload the single 12V  pin in peripheral ports in the back of the PSU over 8A  , it's just a matter of time to generate enough energy to melt the wire or the pins   j = I ² x R x T , all you need is more time . or do you suspect that 10ms transients  alone above 60A would be sufficient in causing a pcie cable to melt ? because they won't 
 
when  circuit breakers are maintained and  implemented properly in our houses it would never cause the wires to fail catastrophically under any overload scenario they also allow for transients , but sadly the way 12V OCP is currently implemented in PSU's doesn't do the same so we cant fully  make the analogy of not having  Multirail 12V OCP is like not having CB in our houses 
 
I am for the importance of Multirail 12v OCP , but not for the reasons you stated above. 
 
as a side note  I applaud your efforts and IQ for making this algorithm of ranking PSU's , and I think someday you will surpass all of current reviewers 
 
@GoldenLag
thank you are correct there didn't read OW review carefully 
 
 

he tests 866w input power to the PSU. which then the PSU outputs 755w. 
 
its 5w overload. thats not 115% which you get by deviding 866w by the rated wattage of 750w

Again, i agree that with current trend in how it's being implemented it's not really useful unless you can configure it yourself lower with digital units, and that because of that most multi-rail units should be on tier A. But with digital units it's still benefits you so to please both sides i think we need to get rid of tier A+ and make a requirements for tier S to be either digital multi-rail or stand-out in build quality or performance from tier A so both Corsair digital units and Seasonic high-end units (among others) would end-up there.

12vOCP is good to have , but its not a priority  
there is a reason why Aris doesn't give high priority for 12v OCP , because its not implemented properly and probably will be worthless in most scenarios , 
12v OCP is usually set at 40A , now look at the PCIe cables , the bottleneck when determining the maximum  sustained current it can withstand would be the pins at the back of the PSU , with most cables you would have 3 live wires with 3 pins , each pin is rated for a maximum sustained load of 8A  , that means it's only good for 24A  while the OCP is set at 40A , so that OCP won't protect your cable against damage unless the only reason you would exceed 24A would be some sort of resistive load that formed due to pinched wires or broken connectors that would cause your current to spike above 40 A , but in any use case that you will find yourself operating at a sustained load between 24A-40A you are damaging your cables without having your protections kick in 
now what happens if you overload your molex cables with pcie  adaptors ? would the 12vOCP help ? no it wont because again that cable would be rated for a maximum of 8A since it has a single 12V pin 
this is an rmi 850 


HX1200
 

Some of these are raised by technical departments and if they are feasible the get the green light to implement them ,
for now what I am trying to say is that we should trust expert opinions when they say a prime platinum or AX is better than X unit that has multi rail . Because he knows what he is talking about 

What I meant is if a manufacturer released an analog psu with multiple 12 v rail psu with ocp set at 20-25A , would he put 2 daisy chained 8pin pcie connectors on it or just one ?
 
if he put 2x8pin , you will find end users ranting on amazon and newegg and giving it a 1 star review saying how terrible this psu is because its shutting down during load. 
 
if he wants to play safe ( avoid all the bad customer reviews ) he will just put one 8 pin pcie connector per cable , but in order to be able to keep up with the competition he must produce a unit with the same number of pcie connectors as them , so the end result will be more  pcie cables ( double )
 
 

its up to you really , either trust the judgments of Aris the reviewer of tomshardware who is an electrical engineer with 3 degrees and a PHD and decades of industry experience and owns a state of the art lab with properly calibrated equipment , or  trust the collective efforts of non professionals that produced this tier list   

Then RMA to EVGA directly.

Not good enough!
Even by reserving one tier higher than the others for multi rail units you're still saying that Multi-Rail is the most important factor when it comes to a power supply and is more important than every other factor including overall performance.
 
You're kidding, right?
-20/-30 points just for a power supply being single rail?  It's unclear from the table, but does it also get another -20 points stacked for failing to have OCP on 12V since it uses OPP instead to serve the same purpose?

In your mind a power supply being single rail (up to -30 points or -50pts if you stack not having OCP on 12V) is just as bad or worse than a power supply failing to meet ATX ripple specifications (-30 points)?
 
Let's take a look at a quick hypothetical situation (and I won't go through all the aspects you listed, but for arguments sake let's assume anything not mentioned is the same)
First PSU is 1200W single rail, performs well in all other aspects. Straight away -30 points for being single rail >100A. -20 points for not having OCP on 12V rail. +20 points for having 10mV ripple on 12V. Total: -30pts Second PSU is a multi rail (+10 points), has OCP (+10 points), but fails to meet ATX ripple spec and shows 250mV ripple on 12V at 100% load (-30pts). Total: -10pts According to your ranking system in that situation despite the single rail PSU performing much better it is considered worse than the multi rail PSU that failed to meet ripple spec.

Heck, a PSU with "Shutdown issues" is only -10 points, because somehow having your PSU shut down unexpectedly due to a design fault is much better than your PSU being single rail?
 
Can't you see how flawed this is putting so much emphasis on one thing like multi rail/single rail?

Multi rail PSUs should not be ranked higher than equivalent or better performing single rail units just because they are multi rail. If you want to denote multi rail PSUs as special then just highlight multi rail units as a different font colour in the list and people can decide for themselves how much value they want to put in to it being multi rail.

In my opinion Tier S and Tier A+ as they currently are should be removed.
There's way too much weighting put in to whether or not a PSU has multi rail, and it's ridiculous that the top two rankings are reserved for it. By reserving the top two tiers to multi rail units you're effectively saying that multi-rail is the sole most important determining factor in a power supply, more important than other factors such as performance, which simply isn't true.
 
From Aris' comments regarding this tier list:
 
You could still have a separate tier above Tier A for the highest quality premium units like the Corsair AX1600i just to set them apart from the rest, but it should be based on the overall quality of the unit and not based just on whether or not it has multi rail. A lot of the PSUs that are good enough to reach that level are probably going to have selectable multi-rail feature anyway, but multi rail shouldn't be the deciding factor and if there's a single rail PSU that is absolutely fantastic in every other way then it should still qualify for that ranking.

@Juular everything you have said appears to be under the assumption that each connector on the PSU has its own dedicated 12V rail.
Different connectors does not necessarily mean different rails. PSUs don't have individual rails for every connector. You could have 2 VGA ports on the PSU but they could come from the same 12V rail with a 40A limit. Whether you're getting that power through one cable or two won't make any difference for OCP if they're on the same rail.

For example the Bitfenix Whisper M 850W has 4 VGA* ports on the PSU with 2x 12V 40A rails for the VGA ports. 2 ports share a 40A rail. If you have 2x RTX2080Tis installed then each card is going to be drawing power through the same rail, despite having 2 separate cables plugged in to the PSU.

Same thing goes for Peripheral connectors, which seems to be what started this discussion with @Mezoxin linking to posts where the peripheral connectors have melted as they exceeded the 8A rating for the connector despite the units having multi rail 12V OCP. In most power supplies the Peripheral connectors are all going to share the same rail. There might be 5 peripheral ports on the PSU that share a rail rated for 25A or 30A. You can't limit the rail to something low like 8A to protect the connector of one cable from melting because once you plug in the second cable that shares the same rail you could be tripping OCP unnecessarily, and people will be returning their units thinking they're faulty.

The only way what you're proposing would work is if PSUs monitored each connector individually, and that's going to be cost prohibitive to implement.

12vOCP is good to have , but its not a priority  
there is a reason why Aris doesn't give high priority for 12v OCP , because its not implemented properly and probably will be worthless in most scenarios , 
12v OCP is usually set at 40A , now look at the PCIe cables , the bottleneck when determining the maximum  sustained current it can withstand would be the pins at the back of the PSU , with most cables you would have 3 live wires with 3 pins , each pin is rated for a maximum sustained load of 8A  , that means it's only good for 24A  while the OCP is set at 40A , so that OCP won't protect your cable against damage unless the only reason you would exceed 24A would be some sort of resistive load that formed due to pinched wires or broken connectors that would cause your current to spike above 40 A , but in any use case that you will find yourself operating at a sustained load between 24A-40A you are damaging your cables without having your protections kick in 
now what happens if you overload your molex cables with pcie  adaptors ? would the 12vOCP help ? no it wont because again that cable would be rated for a maximum of 8A since it has a single 12V pin 
this is an rmi 850 


HX1200
 

its up to you really , either trust the judgments of Aris the reviewer of tomshardware who is an electrical engineer with 3 degrees and a PHD and decades of industry experience and owns a state of the art lab with properly calibrated equipment , or  trust the collective efforts of non professionals that produced this tier list   

I ended up purchasing the TX550M. While I think the CX550 would have been good enough, I think for the extra $30 it was worth it since the TX550M should hopefully last me for a couple of years and handle any more upgrades that I need.

you have to take into consideration several factors 
 you have visible damage (fried Pin) in the PSU pinout , and although its a small possibility , there is still  a chance that there is damage internally in the PSU  that PSU was most Probably used for mining and Overloaded 24/7 and had 10 x 8 pin  pcie connectors were occupied , and also the user found himself somehow in need of more and added  Molex to PCIe adaptors and i guess at least 3 adaptors were used (if not more ) taking the above into consideration we can safely assume that this is a damaged and abused unit , so it's highly likely that it might damage your PC
 

Corsair HX1200, not Thermaltake.
Did the seller declare the condition of the unit? If they didn't, get a refund.
 
It's the 12V pin that is burnt out on all of them, so that could be the case.
But that power supply comes with 8 PCIe connectors (4 cables, 2 PCIe connectors each cable) with the ability to add another cable (for a total 10 PCIe connectors). There's no reason for anyone to use molex/sata to PCIe adaptors with that power supply.
 
@Mezoxin More examples for you.

you know... I'll see if i can get something directly from him, if i got anything, I'll let you know... but last time i spoke him he was at CES

I know it's not the most sophisticated instrumentation in the world but we can see over 1090W at the wall and about 30 mV of ripple. We don't have the precise value of the power absorbed by the light bulbs and, unfortunately, the setup isn't sufficient to cause the shutdown of the power supply but almost certanly is over 110 or 120% of load.
 
He also tested a riotoro and a 650W antec variant. The riotoro G2 750W has shut down at over 1000W (obviously consider that there may be less than 1000W, but certanly more than 110%), but ripple wasn't displayed at that moment, maybe i could ask if he noted some issues.
Fortunately we can see the Antec variant at the moment of overload, and you can see there is no ripple issue. He said it's still under 60 mV.

Talking about OPP - according to this russian article - their enig g2 750w shut down at 1050w  
They also noted that at 1030w it was stable  
https://ru.gecid.com/power/riotoro_enigma_750wg2/?s=1

Wait a second, are you really sure about seasonic focus's issues? I mean the abnormal high ripple under heavy load. The only test in which i have seen this issue is one review, about one model, perhaps defective. I haven't seen another example yet. 

There are a lot of reports about it and if you see Cybenetics report on it, there are two distinctive spikes up to 25 dBa on ~5% load and ~30% load. Maybe it just unfortunate batches but still.

in tweakpc's review you can clearly see it

I have noticed something interesting said by one Silverstone representatives here 
https://youtu.be/niQWX1nQtW0?t=73
 
he says that anything above 500w is exempt from the tariffs !!! and thats why they are releasing 500w+ psu's in the us market  , which does not explain why the prices  of PSU's in the us market has increased significantly after the "Trump Tariffs" although they are 500w + variants