Vennaya

Right...If you two are done....Can we please get back on topic? Im still unclear as to what might be causing this.

Okay so ive been posting on here quite a bit the past few days about an ongoing issue, but after some of the replies im not sure what to think anymore, for where the issue arrises. I'm not going to leave anything out, and going to go over the whole timeline of events so you get the full context of what has happened and what i've done so far. So the issue started just over a week ago when i noticed my PC fans were being very loud even when at idle, and i opened up HWINFO to see temps were in the high 60s even at idle, and it was throttling on even the most basic of games. Other than this, the PC was working flawlessly. I opened this thread for advice In that thread, it seemed the overwhelming majority of people pointed the finger at a faulty MSI AIO. So, i got a refund for it under warranty, and ordered a ThermalRight Peerless Assassin to replace it. A few days later, the air cooler arrives, along with a thermalright contact frame i ordered. I got to work replacing the cooler, taking out the old cooler, removing the normal ILM around the CPU socket (while the CPU was still in the socket, it never left the socket) and placing in the contact frame, cleaning and applying thermal paste as i went as needed, with isopopyl. I then attached the CPU cooler and plugged my PC back in. Unfortunately, the GPU wasn't outputting to my screens, and i was only getting an output on the screen i have plugged in to the intergrated graphics (I use both, as one of my monitors is just for steam and Discord, so the iGPU is more than adequete for that. Plus, i have more screens than ports on my GPU). At this point, i went on the /r/techsupport discord for help, and while i was doing that, i looked in device manager just to be sure, and sure enough my RX 6800 XT was not listed anywhere. I did notice one oddity though, and it stood out to me in the device manager because it mentioned PCI (see attached image below). Though its just a "Driver not found" error, (Code 28) and for all i know, it was there for a long time before this. Still it stood out to me. I was told to re-seat the GPU and try again. When i did so, when i next turned on the PC it proceeded to boot...and then shut off, turn on again....A couple of times, before remaining on. I was not even getting an output from the Intergrated graphics then either. I got no error beep codes, and none of the debug LEDs remained lit for more than a second. Its entirely possible it was getting to windows, but for whatever reason, wasnt outputting to the screens. At that point, i began breadboarding. I took out the GPU, and all but one stick of ram and booted it up, and it got to windows just fine then. I then proceeded to test every sick of ram i had in that single dimm slot, and then a known good RAM stick in each slot, all were working. I then re-populated all 4 slots. I then put the GPU back in, but this time i put it in one of the lower slots, the ones that have less active lanes. And huzzah! I got an output from the GPU! ....But unfortunately, this obviously wouldn't be a long term solution. I then put the GPU back in to the top slot, and this time, instead of booting and rebooting itself, i got to windows...But still no output on the GPU. We never figured out what the boot looping was about but it only happened that one time in between moving hardware around, so it may have been a fluke. Who knows? The /r/techsupport subreddit discord concluded that the top PCIE slot was somehow damaged, faulty or otherwise. No worky. That seemed perfectly logical to me, and it reminded me of the LTT video "All our data is gone" where the PCIE was bad, though at no point while changing the CPU cooler did i ever move the GPU outside of exceptionally like wiggles as i moved my arms around, nothing enough to damage it. The only thing i can think of what caused it was me plugging the PC back in - When i plugged the PC back in, the power cord was still live, plugged in to the wall, but the PSU itself was off. Perhaps a power surge? Unlikely, as other places in the world dont have switches on the wall sockets like where i live so i would imagine it would be a risk there if nothing else....But im honestly not sure. I mentioned this to /r/techsupport but i got no comment. So, i naturally started to look at replacing the Motherboard, ideally one of the same or similar model and i posted this thread asking about it However in this thread, someone suggested, after me explaining it, and after seeing the image i also attached here, that it may be the CPU, and not the motherboard that is at fault and it gave me pause. After all, i was working around the CPU when i replaced the cooler, not the PCIE slot and its left me a bit confused as to what it could be. They mentioned that somehow, the PCIE lanes on the CPU may have been damaged and the attached image did make them suspect this. However it is worth noting that the nvme ssd i have installed is still working fine. It's just the GPU, when plugged in to the top slot, thats not detected. I have no other CPUs or motherboards i could use to test the other. I do have an old HD 6970 from 2012, a 12 year old GPU, but considering my current card was outputting when being placed in a lower PCIE slot, i....doubt the GPU is at fault? I've mostly dismissed it as a potential culprit at this point but i honestly have no idea. I ran Cinebench to test the CPU, see if it would crash, to see if that might point to something. However it did not - Though i did notice that it was immediately thermal throttling when at 100%, and mentioned this in the first thread i linked here, as it was still the same topic more or less. Though i think that may have just been because i put on a bit too much thermal paste, and instead of installing both fans on the CPU heatsink, i instead placed one an inch away as a case exhaust, pulling air through the other half of the heatsink tower....Otherwise idle temps were only about 5ish degrees higher than graphs i could find online, and the new cooler was a good 20 degrees cooler at idle than the old AIO, but without a GPU i cant test temps while gaming unfortunately, and this may have just been a bad thermal paste application? No clue. so...I can only assume this issue isn't related to the GPU being not detected? Just thought i'd mention it though, as i said i would lay everything down. As an asside, i found several "Metadata staging failed" errors in the event viewer, under the source of "DeviceSetupManager", whenever i turn on my PC. I have no idea if its related or not, but again just thought i'd mention it. So yea.... That's basically where i'm at right now. A bit confused as to if its the motherboard or the CPU. Or even something else entirely. I bought both the CPU, and motherboard at the same time on amazon in november of 2022, and im not sure about my prospects of getting a refund of both, especially if i ask for a refund at seperate times. I was lucky enough getting the refund for the CPU cooler.... So basically i think i just need some fresh eyes on the problem that might help me muddle through all the facts and make some informed guesses as to which is the most likely culprit. Should i just go with my original plan of replacing the motherboard and seeing if anything changes? Though as mentioned, im concerned that if i do that, i may not be able to get a refund on the CPU if that is the culprit. Thanks in advance!

Yea Mesh front. Mesh top, rear is also fairly airated. Only the Glass panel and back panel are the only solid panels anywhere. Airflow isn't the issue. At least not the path it takes through the case. Otherwise it would have been a problem before now. As mentioned, my MSI AIO Water cooler was perfectly fine for well over a year once i undervolted the CPU, and it was only in the past month or two (not entirely sure on the timeframe, as i wasnt actively monitoring temps) that temps started to go awry and i swapped the cooler.

Hmmm well yea...Sucks because i'll need to update the BIOS again on any new board. Sigh. But yea, i dont have any cpus i could put in, and neither do i have any spare motherboards that would work to test this CPU. Either way i will inspect the socket when i take the CPU out.... I might just make another thread on here about my whole situation and get some fresh input on it, because im sure there arent many people visiting this thread anymore as the original post was just a simple question, pretty much.

It's not a well known brand at all. Even i don't remember it and would have to dig around quite a bit to find out. I dont see the point of buying a well known brand for a case, whatsoever. Its just throwing money down the drain. My current case has 2x 200mm fans in the front, 280mm exhaust ports at the top, an intake at the bottom in front of the psu, and a single rear exhaust. There is no HDD cages or anything in the way of airflow or anything like that.

So do you suggest re-pasting the CPU then? And putting the other fan on despite the exhaust fan being like 1.5 inches behind it? Would that really make enough of a difference to stop it from thermal throttling?

Reset again? Reset what? You mean re-seat the GPU? Because i did that several times, and it was the same result. Plus, that pci controller just has a "missing driver" error, so its not like the controller has just vanished or not recognised. So...? I mean im no expert. You might be right for all know, but i have no way of testing it without replacing either the cpu or the motherboard. And neither is cheap, and i've already gotten amazon to refund the CPU cooler and will try my luck with them trying to refund the motherboard tomorrow so i can buy a replacement, so i dunno about my chances of them refunding the CPU aswell, especially as all 3 were bought at the same time, in november of 2022. Plus, the m.2 drive i have installed is still working fine, and that uses the lanes closest to the cpu, yes? So if those are working, its weird that the ones for the gpu slot aren't working. So its natural to assume that the gpu socket itself isnt working? Or is it possible for only specific lanes in a CPU to go poof? And they just so happen to coinside with the top GPU slot, but literally no other lanes? ...I dunno. The CPU seems fine otherwise. I did a stress test with a long Cinebench run yesterday and no issues. ...Though the intergrated graphics did cut out for like 1.5 seconds yesterday while i was watching a video but otherwise it's been perfectly fine....Either way it seems far fetched. Though you are right, its weird either way. I simply took out the old cpu cooler, which was a just barely over 1 year old MSI water cooler, because it was failing to cool it adequetly all of a sudden despite temps being more than fine only a few months before. I cleaned off the thermal paste with iso, removed the motherboards ILM and placed a contact frame in its place, without removing the CPU from its socket. I then applied thermal paste again, and installed the new cooler, and when i booted it back up the GPU was failing to be detected. The rest you know. So the CPU never actually left the socket, but conversely the GPU was also barely touched, after all i was just replacing the CPU cooler. So yea....I don't know what to think honestly.

It really wasn't THAT much. It was maybe....two "peas" worth, if that makes sense. My reasoning was that with a single "pea" in the middle, when i took the old cpu cooler off, there was some obvious spots where the paste was thinner than it needed to be, because i could see metal underneath in a few small areas. I technically only have one fan attached though to the peerless assasin. Would that make a difference? The second one is being used as a case fan, mounted within an inch of the heatsink, rather than directly attached to it. Based on what i could look up, the idle temps are very similar to what others have reported, maybe 5 degrees higher at most, but thats likely within the margin of error of ambient temp and humidity and such, yea?

Well after i replaced the CPU cooler, i plugged everything back in and then powered it on, but my GPU wasnt being detected even in device manager. I tried reseating it but then for whatever reason, the PC started boot looping with no signal, not even from intergrated graphics. At that time i started getting help from the /r/techsupport discord. I then did a few steps such as testing each ram slot, and each stick, no error codes. I also took out the GPU. When i did this, i was able to get back in to windows with an output on intergrated graphics. At this point, i plugged the RAM all back in, instead of just a single stick, and then put the GPU in one of the lower slots. I was able to get in to windows, and i got an output from the GPU. Me and the people on /r/techsupport concluded it was a bad top PCIE slot, which was only confirmed once i moved the GPU back in to the top slot and i no longer got a signal from it again. We never figured out what that boot looping was all about, but it only happened the one time, so it might have been just a fluke. It may have been the PC half-detecting the GPU somehow, and may have actually been getting in to windows, but i was unable to see it, because no output to the screens. Its worth noting that i got not a single error code, nor did any of the error LEDs on the motherboard remain lit for more than a second or two. So as best as i can tell, and they could help me with, we conlcuded it is almost certainly a bad top PCIE slot, because the PC seems to work fine otherwise. I'm currently using it to type this, though i am having to run on intergrated graphics for the time being. (Though that being said, if you saw the other thread i made on my profile, in relation to the CPU cooler, it seems even with a new cooler its still thermal throttling when it shouldn't be. Though i doubt the two issues are related? Who knows.) I DO have something weird in my Device manager though, though again unsure if its related or not. I attached an image with it. Again, not sure if its related, but considering the GPU works in the lower slots....? No idea honestly, just thought i'd mention it. It could have been there before this whole issue arose for all i know. The only reason it stood out to me was because it mentions PCI.

Should it not be throttling? I thought it was fairly normal when running a benchmark like cinebench. Its throttling almost immediately in cinebench, at about 180-200ish watts of CPU package power. I have a contact frame on, and i used a rather generous amount of thermal paste.

So basically, i need some advice. Hopefully a quick one. While replacing the CPU cooler, somehow my top PCIE slot gave up the ghost on my motherboard. I'm 95% sure its the top slot and not the gpu, as i tested the gpu in a lower pcie slot and it seems to output to my monitor fine, but doesnt when its plugged in to the top slot. I may be able to get a refund for the motherboard, but im not sure about prospects for a replacement. Unfortunately i can't find another motherboard that has the same features and IO i want, other than this one, so it looks like im going to need to replace it with one of the same model, or similar. Specifically, its the MSI Pro Z690 DDR4 Motherboard. However if i were to get a refund, purchasing a replacement would cost me more than the refund as supposedly they've gone up in price since i bought it last year. However, the Wifi model is actually cheaper. I realise i would probably need to reformat if i were changing chipset, or brand of motherboard, but....would i need to reformat my PC if i were to replace my non-wifi motherboard, with the cheaper wifi motherboard that is (seemingly?) the same model? As far as im aware the only difference is that one has inbuilt wifi and the other doesn't, though im not sure. If i do need to reformat anyway, could anyone reccomend a possible replacement DDR4 OR DDR5 motherboard (Been thinking about upgrading at some point anyway, even if i would have to buy new RAM) to put in its place? Ideally one with easy undervolting that the MSI ones have (lite load), and similar IO. My other components are i5-13600k and rx 6800 xt, with an nvme ssd (though i imagine most motherboards have m.2 nvme slots these days). Thanks!

Okay just an update. I put in a Thermalright Peerless assasin after returning the cooler i had. So far, it seems quite a bit better. Idles are in the area of 40-50. Though sadly it does seem to thermal throttle almost immediately after running cinebench, where as before with the water cooler it basically never throttled and if it did, it didnt do so until after a good 10 minutes, but i guess that's just the difference between Watercooling and air cooling. Still, even when it does thermal throttle, it only loses 0.2ghz on the P cores so its not like its throttling all the way down, even when running at 100%. I also installed a contact frame. Unforunately, somehow, while replacing the cooler my motherboard decided now was a good time to give up the ghost, and the top PCIE slot stopped detecting my gpu (still detected in other slots, just not the top one, so pretty sure its the motherboard) So yay for me, gonna have to get that sorted now too. So until that's sorted i wont be able to tell how it performs while gaming or using tasks that need the GPU. Wew.

I've been looking at coolers ever since i saw its probably a flawed cooler. Saw the Peerless assasin as a potential buy, as im not sure if im comfortable going AIO route again, even if i do want the extra performance it provides. Like i mentioned, while running cinebench with lite load turned down, it never throttled. Though i hadnt seen or heard about the frost spirit? I've also looked in to getting a mounting frame. I just hope its not bent already. And what...is a cold plate? You mean the block that makes contact with the CPU itself? Won't that just cause the CPU to shut itself off after a minute or two? Please explain what you mean.

Okay well i've emailed MSI support about possibly getting my issue sorted, because as far as im aware its still within its warranty? Never done an RMA before so i dunno. No idea if they'd be able or willing to simply refund me, considering its been well over a year since i bought it, and amazon, where i bought it from, only offers refunds for up to 30 days, obviously. In the meantime i may try re-pasting the CPU but honestly, im not sure how that might help. Because like i say, as recently as a few months ago, it was working flawlessly...But honestly i don't know. I don't know what could cause it to go bad so quickly, because from my experience thermal paste doesn't degrate that quickly, and not suddenly after being fine for over a year. Though this is my first time using an AIO/Watercooling a system. Any other help i could get in the meantime would be appreciated.

That article mentions E series coolers, but mine is a C series. I can't find any mention of a C series recall, or issues. Soooo....Not sure what to think.