CanCeralp

Video! Please take recordings. Lots of them. With your phone, with internal softwares. Record with all possible combinations. Try to pick problematic places in games. This topic needs more material to see and judge correctly. Otherwise, everything is just words with no evidence.

OK. I'll be monitoring this topic but won't be writing anymore. I'm eagerly waiting for your solutions and proofs of it.

No problem. It takes a great character to accept it and say sorry (and very rare in internet :)). Respect! I can't explain how some people "have it" and some don't, and some used to have it then "fixed". However, I know aliasing when I see it from a hundred meters. And I ajve really studied about it, why it happens, how it happens, etc. I'm trying to be analytical here. Where I see and can "define" aliasing, I tell you guys the reasons for it. However I can not clearly "define" the peoples' explanations of "having it" or "not having it" or "fixing" it. Many of the claims here fall into the gray area, that's the problem. That's also why I proposed to make clearer definitions and seperate problems here, as it looks like there are more than one type of visual problem here. For example, I have watched the video KenJorY just shared. If my screen doesn't display things different than anyone's display, I can easily tell this is aliasing, and I can dissect them one by one, telling you their reasons. Plus, of course they are not supposed to look like that. But they do, and there is no way for us to fix it completely. Only "real" solution is to buy a powerful hardware and force higher resolutions. I know it's a shame, but it's kind of what depelopers and hardware manufacturers secretly trying to force us to do. That's how capitalism talks to gamers. Thats also why I proposed a big protest with our wallets. A "user/gamer" shouldn't even have to fix it, in the first place. No matter how much one likes tinkering and tweaking, keeping the graphic fidelity on a decent level is not our duty. We pay for it, whoever takes the money must do it.

Why are you so angry? It's a forum, where there is always people who will disagree with you. I'm not all-knowing, nor telling people what to do with their money. You are just unnecessaryly aggressive, and unable to obey simple rules of the forum which clearly tells us to be polite and understanding to each other.

They are just other PCs, which use the same hardware like you and me. They use AMD, Nvidia and Intel, just like us. Being a super powerful PC won't change the fact that they are subject to the same drivers and play the game just like any other computer. My PC does a scene in 15ms with low quality driver filtering, GeForce Now PC does it in 3ms, with the same low quality driver filtering then sends it to me as a video streaming.

Those who insist its electricity, they are the reason all those GPU manufacturers and game developers are laughing at us and feel absolutely no need to fix their s**t. It's not, electricity. One more time, it's not electricity. It's a deliberate design choice to lower the texturing quality from developers, as well as lowering scaling quality from GPU driver makers. Please try to imagine this; 20 years ago a texture for a game was approx 128x128 in size. And a surface had only one texture file. Today, we have textures as big as 4096x4096 for a stupid pebble mesh, and it's not even a single texture. A 4096x4096 diffuse texture, a 1024x1024 normal map, a 512x512 specular map. They are processed and placed on top of each other. Plus, the scaling filter that does the processing is also low quality, because GPU makers want to brag about how fast their GPUs are. Now, one more time but for the last time aslo, I'll say this. Scenerio 1) Imagine a 2007 game. Meshes are low on polygons, things are simple. Their texture files are small and low on detail. Every mesh has only one texture file. So no processing needed. Things are forward rendered and the resolution is fixed. That's a decent result. Scenerio 2) Imagine a modern game. Meshes are extremely complex, also some of them are tesellated. They have many texture files and those textures are stretched and layered on top of each other. Every single texture layer processing and scaling has its own error. Place them on top of each other and you have many many errors come together. It's not done. They are also needed to be shaded for lights and shadows and glowing, etc. They are also at lower resolution. Scenerio 2 has more details in every aspect, ok but also has much more errors and low quality parts. Add that, classical MSAA won't work with these solutions, and all we can do is either rely on TAA or brute force VSR/DSR. This is the final time I say this. Even though I believe this topic is important, having 127 pages and still being unable to differentiate some problems and label them correctly is leading everyone to a dead end. One more note: hardware manufacturers are just after our money and ego satisfaction. They won't tell you the truth. Only we can force them to do so by voting with our wallets. Let's take anti lag or ultra low latency technologies, for example. Limiting FPS yields much better solutions under Directx 10 and 11, however, instead of telling us to limit our FPS in those games, they give us a low latency button. Because they want us to be starving for more FPS without a reason. If a pc gamer loses their interest in absolutely maxing every option and still expect a 17474 FPS at 128K resolution they won't be able to sell their top tier hardware and game developers won't have the freedom to be sloppy while developing their games (actually unoptimized farts, sorry, ports) Imagine an educated global group, who refuses to pay extreme money's for a pc and refuses to buy half baked games, even refunds them if they have terrible aliasing problems and lack some mandatory options like an FOV slider. That group is their nightmare, and is our solution for this topic. So, please stop buying electricity devices.

The solution by our hands may not exist. However, that doesn't change the cause. There is no "dirty power" for a digital product. Please, everyone, google "difference between digital and analog" and you'll see why electricity can not create aliasing. BTW, there are some people here, whose problem is clearly about the screen itself, like the whole screen flashing, or vibrating. This is entirely a different problem and must be seperated from aliasing problems. This is why I'm patiently asking for videos from everyone. Because here we have 126 pages, hundreds of people (if not thousands) and rarely have samples of the problem. We have to identify it correctly so we can actually discuss. The aliasing problem I'm talking about here since my first post is unsolvable by us, however people with other problems/physical monitor problems should realize that their problem may have a solution.

I did. Destiny 2 is specifically terrible. But I assure you, that's not an error we can fix, nor about our computers. That's purely the result of game developers' choices. That is called specular aliasing and is one the most expensive type of errors to fix. Also, fixing it has its own side effects, like slight blurring or reduction in detail. So game developers simply condemn us to live with it. Do you want to see it fixed? Try this: Information 1) Specular calculations are run through shaders. This shader runs on 2x2 pixel blocks in most games (like infamous GTA V and Destiny 2), so every 4 pixel has only calculation to cut down it's performance penalty. That means; when you select 1920x1080p in the game options, specular shaders are run at 960x540. Total pixel ratio is 1/4. Information 2) For reducing the pixel crawling effect, you want a "spare/extra" information between every 2 information. In this case, information is pixels. Imagine you have 2 pixels and suddenly a quarter pixel movement happens. Neither of them can display that, because the movement wouldn't affect their center. However, if you had an extra virtual pixel between them, that extra pixel would catch this movement and reflect it on one of the actual pixels. What that means? Simply, it menas that we need a 3rd pixel for every two pixels to catch movements that are "smaller than a pixel" in one dimention. That 150% more pixels for one dimention. Since our screen are 2 dimentional, 150% x 150% = 225% resolution is what we need. Let's combine two informations: One says, we need to go as high as 225% times of our actual screen pixel size to combat movement flickering. The other information says, specular shaders are run at quarter of our selected resolution. To match the specular shader resolution to your screen resolution's 225%, you have to select a game resolution of 9x of your screen. TL; DR If you have a 1080p screen, set the in game resolution to 5760 x 3240. You'll see that the specular errors will be gone. Should you play the game at that resolution? Of course, no. Do you have to live with that? Unfortunately, yes. It's the developers' sh*tting. What else would fix that? A proper optimization of the game, so post processing things like shaders can run at higher resolutions, and a high quality TAA. These can not be altered by the user. So, the only way to fix this is to start a proper and informed community and vote with out wallets till developers/companies can pull their heads from their.... Ebooks of "how to screw more customers and make more money at 10 steps".

Could the people who have problems with TAA post an in-game video here with; 1) no AA 2) TAA Preferably a less moving scene, not a fast gameplay, so observing and comparing the scene would be easier. TAA is supposed to be the best AA, because it's not just AA, it actually is SSAA which increases the rendering resolution to 4-8 times. It's only downside is it's a little blurry. However, those of you who are old enough would remember, classical SSAA was also blurry and we had to play with LOD bias settings to comoansate for it. Now, we simply change sharpness and that's way easier. A well implemented TAA should actually be the solution to aliasing problems. Considering it's open source, not implementing it well enough is almost impossible. PS: Assassin's Creed Black Flag is using SMAA Tx2, but they could not specify it on the menu because the studio signed a deal with Nvidia to promote TXAA. SMAA Tx2 blends the current frame with previous one, effectively increasing the resolution to x2. And then apply SMAA on top it. This is why it's so successful. It's also on Crysis 3 and Watch Dogs 2.

I have watched both videos on a 15.6" laptop screen @1366x768 to be fair. Because one of the videos was 720p the other was 1080p. I didn't pay attention to object or shadow pop-ins. However, as for the regular aliasing problems like jagged edges, pixel shimmering or pixel crawling, I can say they are identical and they are both good. Of course my screen resolution and size is not enough for judging and Youtube really destroys the tiny details, so commenting on these videos wouldn't be fair. I know it is too much to ask but when uploading a video to Youtube, please upscale it before. If you record something at 1080p, make it 4K with very high bitrate with something like Davinci Resolve, then upload to Youtube. So, it will not lose any detail to compression and the artifacts will be visible.

The only common thing among them is not electricity, it is the development preferences. The game makers prefer it to be like that. Without convincing them, there is no way that we can solve it. The only way we, users, can make a game that is free of those errors is that we create our own game engine and our own game. Only then we can solve it once and for all.

@Kladmaster all the hopes are on the 8xTSAA with Halton sequence jittering + a Gaussian based sharpener.

PPI simply tells us how close we can get to the screen. For example, for a 1080p, 16:9 screen, the closest we can sit to it is aprrx. 1,5x of the diagonal size. For a 22" screen that value is 33". If we sit NY closer to the screen, we can see the pixels (not the aliasing). For a 4K screen, that's half of it. So, it's approx. 16,5" distance for a 22" 4K screen. There are various ways to calculate it but one can use web pages, too. However "seeing the pixels" here refers to seeing the structure and gaps between the physical pixels. It is not the same as aliasing. Aliasing is a matter of high contrast difference among neighbors or the previous state of a pixel. The stair effect can be less visible when displayed from further distance. However motion artifacts (temporal aliasing) will still be there. PPI is only useful when comparing two different resolution screens. Higher resolution display defines a closer distance for the viewer to sit in front, that's all. After a certain distance, a 4K screen is no different than 1080p display to human eye.

Short answer, Yes. When we are talking about resolutions we must define two different terms: Image quality and error reduction. Image quality is about how close we can look at the screen, how clear and crisp the image is. This is where higher resolutions shine and take the crown. Error reduction is about how small the aliasing rate, compared to non-error areas of the screen. When DSR and VSR are in use, they match (even sometimes exceed) the error reduction rate of the same resolution of a non-VSR/DSR screen. That means 4K DSR/VSR has as low aliasing as a native 4K screen, or even lower because of the additional downfiltering. (native 4K just displays it, VSR/DSR 4K is first processed and then downscaled)

You're right. It can only be reduced with super high resolutions and some post processing layers. That's all.