Legion

I hung out out with people at LTX from as far away as Europe and Asia.  So seeing an American complain that Vancouver, which is a whopping 41 kilometers (26 miles) from the US border, is 'too far away' is kinda laughable.
 
Get a passport and go see the world.  It's out there, waiting for you, and you won't regret it.

typical american🤣

Its been like this for years. I pretty much gave up watching LTT videos as the quality dipped continuously over time.
Watching Linus focusing on a single point he can contest rather than acknowledging properly he needs to slow the hell down is the same thing he does every other time this shit comes up.
 
He intentionally misses the wood for the trees every single time and its getting exhausting.

Its been like this for years. I pretty much gave up watching LTT videos as the quality dipped continuously over time.
Watching Linus focusing on a single point he can contest rather than acknowledging properly he needs to slow the hell down is the same thing he does every other time this shit comes up.
 
He intentionally misses the wood for the trees every single time and its getting exhausting.

I see it as they are basically competitors in the space. Both of them are making "labs" to test stuff. Both of them invested significant amount of money into it.
 
Then LMG employee publicly takes shot at them for how they test stuff while being wrong and not fact checking first or reaching out to them to confirm.
This creates a conflict of interest as LMG is huge and while likely not intentionally, they are throwing GN, HUB, etc... other channels under the bus and making them look bad because "we do it better" while they don't and as GN pointed out, there is plenty of publicly available evidence from LTT videos to back it up.
 
@treestain


 
But they were incorrect in saying how they are different because they didn't fact check how GN and HUB does their stuff so that statement was wrong and it made GN and HUB look bad because of the language used. That's the main issue there. Larger channel making the smaller channel look bad because of wrong assumptions. Then smaller channels defending themselves and taking shots back at the larger channel.

so did the mouse guys, so did HW, so did Billet. Maybe LTT went to far to piss so many people off this way ever think off that. Worst then the clown stuff is the constant replies to it in a obviously asinine manner.

This thread is already overloaded, but I felt the need to leave a comment for the first time in this forum over this. I haven't read through all 1,600+ comments on this topic, but I've read through many. There are a few points that I have not seen anyone mention that I feel are worth discussing.
 
Corrections in reported testing data. Obviously errors are bad, and LMG should strive to minimize these. However, I see many people bashing LMG on this topic, and saying they should strive to do better. Linus has specifically talked about this topic on numerous WAN shows, and stated that they are doing exactly that. He has even opened the dialogue up to the community for input. A large part of the reasoning behind bringing in a new CEO is so that Linus would have more time to work with the writing team, and he's specifically mentioned wanting to improve the workflow process between the Labs and the writers to minimize mistakes. Why bash someone for an issue they have already identified and stated they are trying to improve? One important factor that I have not seen discussed (again, I haven't read all 1,600 comments), is the fact that with the introduction of the Labs, LMG is beginning to overlap the content created by Steve and GN to a much higher degree. It's no secret that GN prides themselves on being the go-to source for data driven testing, and have earned that with years of hard work and proven results. With LMG entering this territory, there is a significant risk to the GN channel. LMG comes with a large built-in viewer base, and if they are able to provide similar (or better) testing results on a much wider variety of products than GN is able to produce, GN is likely to lose considerable viewership. I couldn't help but notice the tone throughout the GN video seemed to be "look how bad LMG is at this type of content, you can't trust them. We do it better, and here's why you should trust us.". LMG has frequently stated that they're new to this and are working on improving, and it feels like GN is worried and trying to discredit before LMG can get a foothold in the space. Many people have called for LMG to slow down and create fewer videos with higher accuracy. Doing that would result in a significant loss of revenue for LMG. While I'm aware that they make a significant amount of money, Linus is largely a pioneer in the fact that he is reinvesting an extremely high percentage of this money back into the company. He has grown a small tech review channel into a large player in the tech media space. He has expanded the type of coverage to appeal to more people, and uses this money to employee well over 100 people. Most YouTube creators with similar (or more) subscriber counts may employee a handful of people, but largely pocket the profits. Linus has even stated that one of the primary goals of the Labs is to create a unified repository of reliable* data that consumers can access to make properly educated decisions. As Linus stated, this doesn't happen over night, and they're continually working to improve. I know that I'm being very pro-LMG in all of this, but I really think that much of this criticism is uncalled for. Are mistakes bad? Yes. Should LMG strive to do better? Of course. I'm just saying that the guy has literally invested millions of dollars into a lab that is largely designed to benefit the community, so maybe trust him bro, they'll get it figured out. 

It's the internet. The internet ALWAYS lacks tact. It's been lacking tact since the very beginning.

Linus has been in the game for a LONG time and by now he not only knows what to expect, but has a support structure to console him in times of extreme stress.

There will be a time to defend him on this in the future after they have fixed their processes and they have proven that they are serious about doing better. Now is not the time to defend him. Now is the time to take lumps.

None of that is going to matter until Linus has a change in attitude and pulls the reigns back a little but as you said they can't realistically do that with the financial obligations. That is no one's fault but their own and as GN/Steve said a self-inflicted problem. Even still, Linus refuses to acknowledge some of the problems like the Billet Labs waterblock video he doubled down on WAN and triple downed on in this thread. You have to admit to mistakes before you can fix them and blame shifting or saying, 'but we're people!' isn't admitting to problems. Its burying yourself deeper into the hole you dug yourself. 
 
If LTT Labs is giving them bad data right off the bat then that data needs to kept out of their videos until they're ready and not one second before. I get that Labs is a money sink and Linus needs to recuperate the cost as fast as possible but you're shooting yourself in the foot and growing too fast if the excuse for bad data is urgency in pumping content out. A lot of this space relies on accountability and trust. All that money sunk into labs is going to become a liability they can't recoup if people's first impressions of their product is one of questionable data and taking a dig at HUB/GN. Like it or not LTT has been taking shots at GN for a while now that attitude comes from the top down to where random employees that are in tour videos feel comfortable taking shots at other YT creators. 

If I refused to give you back your, I dunno, your gaming PC - I assume you have one if you're here, I think that's fair. If I refused to give you back your gaming PC, but only AFTER you threatened to call the cops I revealed to you that I sold it but only now am I willing to pay you back - would that be reasonable?
 
Also, you shouldn't have threatened to call the cops, that wasn't cool of you. Clearly I would have been willing to pay you back all this time, despite not doing so.

That's a self inflicted issue, just like a lot of the points made have been. 

All of this is irrelevant to the point being made. It doesn't matter if it was the worst cooler on the planet or the best. The prototype given was for a specific card. Linus did not use the proper card, felt this was sufficient, as evidenced by the fact the video wasn't stopped then. He then claimed the product was poor without having actually used it in its intended use case, and proceeded to say, twice now, that this is not a problem. 
 
If I make an exhaust for a Honda Civic, and you review it on a Nissan Altima, and claim the whole thing is trash anyway so why bother getting it for a Civic, there's a problem there. (edited to fix a sentence)

Man GN is spending months figuring out fan curves via pressure testers and LTT can't even fucking turn off DLSS.

Its been like this for years. I pretty much gave up watching LTT videos as the quality dipped continuously over time.
Watching Linus focusing on a single point he can contest rather than acknowledging properly he needs to slow the hell down is the same thing he does every other time this shit comes up.
 
He intentionally misses the wood for the trees every single time and its getting exhausting.

If I don't do my job properly I get fired because clients who pay us a lot of money get angry.
 
Linus does his job improperly and has a massive band of merry men ready to keep his coattails from settling on the dust.
 
Nobody is above criticism and you aren't helping anything by pretending they are.

*Before I get come at by certain people, I want to preface this response by saying that I have been a long-time supporter of Linus Tech Media Group and always will be a supporter until the end of time, but I am a firm believer in excising benign tumors before they become malignant and ruin the integrity of the body of a company as a whole. Take this statement as you will*
 
The same can be said with your direct statement... The simple fact that your response was immediately directed toward jealousy and LMG attempting to move into more hardware tests to "directly compete" with GN just shows the drama and sensationalism on your end lol. Not to mention you stating that GN "feels" like LMG "copied" some of their merchandise sales? If their focus was on financial competition in any regard the video that they just made in regards to the Accuracy, Ethics, and Responsibility of LTT would be made monetized- But it isn't. Imo this just reeks of a lack of accountability strictly on the end of LMG and their supporters that blatantly see the inconsistencies with their production and reviews, but will fail to call them out on it while also likely watching other content creators for their actual legitimate reviews when buying products, but will never voluntarily seek out LTT first.
 
And in regard to the statement in which you said, this wasn't the first time by GamersNexus either, I honestly would like to see some examples. I have found inconsistencies on their end in regard to what I deem partially biased reviews, but as with Linus Tech Media Group, no channel or review can ever be perfect, but in the accountability department I do see significantly more.

Its been like this for years. I pretty much gave up watching LTT videos as the quality dipped continuously over time.
Watching Linus focusing on a single point he can contest rather than acknowledging properly he needs to slow the hell down is the same thing he does every other time this shit comes up.
 
He intentionally misses the wood for the trees every single time and its getting exhausting.

Its been like this for years. I pretty much gave up watching LTT videos as the quality dipped continuously over time.
Watching Linus focusing on a single point he can contest rather than acknowledging properly he needs to slow the hell down is the same thing he does every other time this shit comes up.
 
He intentionally misses the wood for the trees every single time and its getting exhausting.

Since this has become a feedback thread, I'll take it as an opportunity to vent out my thoughts about LMG I've just kept to myself for the past few months. 
 
I've been watching Linus for 10 years now (this is my 3rd post in this forum in the past 8 years), and it increasingly feels like LTT videos are becoming like *that* Verge video, the one which he and all other tech YouTubers made fun of.  That is perhaps the shortest way to phrase it. Unplanned execution, lots of mistakes or lack of knowledge, complete denial after the mistakes get pointed out, etc.  and overall being targeted for a dumber audience in a world which cares a lot more about nerdy tech like the shiny new Nvidia GPUs than 10 years ago.

I'm just not excited for LTT and ShortCircuit videos anymore. ShortCircuit does not put out reviews for actually interesting new tech like laptops, and when they do, it's already been out for a long time - I've just not seen any proper videos about laptops I'd want to buy ever since the Framework investment. SC used to be my favorite LMG channel for a while. Now it seems like only Dell can afford to pay to have their laptop be in a SC video - a laptop which is largely the same as last gen, while other brands have been launching new completely new SKUs (ASUS/MSI/Lenovo).
 
And the LTT videos - they start with a great idea, and just leave me blue balled due to the lack of effort and utter chaos throughout the video. It's fun if it's something going wrong for like a couple of minutes, but the entire videos are just so chaotic that it's become tiring.  
 
It seems like LTT is trying to be the jack of all trades unfortunately. There's a better YT channel out there for everything that LTT is trying to be and they're still pumping out good videos so it's not like everyone has completely run out of ideas. If I wanted to know about ultra fast gaming monitors and SFF builds - I'd go to Optimum Tech. For laptop there's Dave2D, Jarrod's Tech, GizmoSlipTech and MobileTechReview. If I wanted concrete data on hardware, I'd go to Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed. If I wanted some unserious tech content, I'd try Austin Evans or Unbox Therapy. Plenty of smaller channels for every specific Mechanical keyboard related content I'd want to check out. Plenty of audiophile channels and mainly Reddit for anything headphone related. RTings also covers a lot of these points. 
 
I'd visit LTT for cool projects like whole room watercooling or 7 gamers 1 PC or 16K gaming but there's hardly been any triple-A content like that pushed out in the past few years. Wish that more of the budget - actual cash AND most importantly, time, was spent on the new projects. It's not like LTT even tries to hide the rushed style of content publicly - it has become a running joke - an excuse for the sorry state of things in some videos.
 
Also, this has nothing to do with new hosts or employees. I've seen the same hosts (including Linus) get affected by all of these points. Since you guys launched LTT TV, how about you go back and watch some old content to see what made your channel grow?
 
Mac Address puts out way less content but the videos are top notch. It absolutely shows how much the fast pace of videos is affecting the quality of content on LMG.
 

I got four words for you Linus - slow the fuck down!!!
 
You are like that kid in high school who could never pay attention beyond 5 minutes, exhibits all the symptoms of ADHD and is a handful for parents to manage.
 
As for Steve's video, I feel it was a long time coming to finally address many of the issues. These hit personal to me too as for many years I was doing the same job - reviewing tech gear online. The big difference in my work routine was I adhered to one golden rule - NO DEADLINES!!! I would take however much time I needed with a product to look at it properly, test it, review it, take it through its paces and form an educated, hands-on opinion before sitting down and start bashing away at the keyboard.
 
And while I was nowhere near pushing out multiple articles a week, the work that I did do was well put together, accurate and detailed. I honestly cannot recall where I needed to get back and significantly redo a piece because I had made a serious error, and you would be hard pressed to find a piece where there even is an "EDIT" remark - and that's across over 100 credited articles.
 
To be honest, I have stopped watching LTT videos this year. It's just not worth my time any more. The clown-show antics, the ads, all your fucking segways... I don't need to hear it. If you are that desperate for ad revenue then you are doing something wrong, more so when other tech reviewers survive without all the nonsense sprinkled in.
 
Case in point - for years I have been bashing you guys over your horrendous laptop reviews. Not once has Alex criticized a manufacturer when they sent him a laptop with a horrible keyboard layout. Not once!!! How the hell can he call himself a serious laptop user and expert critic if he is missing those glaring deficiencies??? I have been using laptops for 22+ years and can immediately tell if a keyboard layout is rubbish or not. Alex has no business reviewing laptops when he doesn't even know his way around keyboards!!!
 
The result of this lazy attitude from leading review outlets - manufacturers become lazy too. In shopping for a replacement laptop I have found it next to impossible to find one with a proper keyboard. They either mash the cursor keys together, screw up the zero on the numpad or place the damn power button where the delete key should be. Try editing a document where instead of replacing text you power down your laptop - an absolutely maddening experience!!! In years past I would have expected BS like this from the likes of Clevo and Acer/Gateway but today even the big names like HP and Alienware have decided not to give a shit when it comes to placing a proper keyboard on their $2000+ products. And when manufacturers become lazy that's when consumers suffer.
 
So yes, what Steve did had to be done, because when reviewers get complacent manufacturers follow, and that's never good for the consumer.

So is this a commitment to improving processes because right now they're kind of in shambles given the resources at disposal.

Didn't they?
 
"OH THE RESULTS WOULD BE THE SAME ON A 3090, TRUST ME BRO, ITS GARBAGE."

This is a very knee-jerk response with little thought put in to what Steve was actually trying to suggest to you, and frankly, some plays at sadness/crocodile tears at the end to avoid criticism you really REALLY should heed. 
 
I've been a fan of yours for nearing a decade now, and seeing this type of reaction to a video very kindly suggesting that you fix the fundamentals, and thereby is warning us, the viewers, that misinformation is awry on LTT videos, really really disappoints me. I would have expected more care put into sage advice on something you personally built from the ground up, but clearly my view and understanding of you was misinformed.
 
The combination of cited issues with your channel given by a respected member in the tech space, and your response being essentially "nuh-uhh," "look at my 2 newest videos," and "*cry* our team members are people too and you hurt their feelings!" in order to avoid taking real responsibility says loads about how much you actually care.
 
I'm disappointed. And I hate to say it. 

Their story was about the videos, the videos are already out in the wild, the information is already out there... they did a piece on the videos, videos that are still online... They have no duty to ask you for your comments, they have no duty to ask for you to influence their findings, they have no duty to you at all... At best, they could have asked you to provide comments on what they were going to report, and they would then be able to choose to publish those responses or not. But, youtube, as the ability built in for you to provide comment on their reporting.
 
Either way, the Linus "im right, everyone else is wrong" attitude, isnt going to help make LTT, or Labs, more accurate. The common thread to all the problems here is you. I like LTT, i like you, but you are coming across as the type of person who wont accept that they are falable and are completely incapable of admitting to your mistakes.
 
You have a choice, be a genuinely trusted media outlet for tech... Or be the "Top Gear" of tech and just be a bunch of clowns who make funny videos tangentially related to tech.

Made an account to make this post. Honestly, the entire defense about inaccuracies seems to boil down to "we're not perfect", which frankly isn't good enough for a company that was offered to be bought out for a hundred million dollars.