FALC0N

I have been trying to tell them that for a month now.  It's dead reliable.  The AK47 of power supplies. Before it was a budget PSU, it was the unit you purchased to power SLI, Crossfire, Pentium EE systems, overclocked Thuban X6,  Overclocked Core 2 Duo's and Core I7's, overclocked Bulldozer FX chips, and everything in between, all of which drew a LOT more power than today's systems do. That's where its stellar reputation came from.  Powering hard core gaming machines for over a decade and powering them reliably, just like it does today. You can't fake that kind of performance or reputation. It may not be the best PSU anymore, but it's damn reliable. Most veterans know that already.   I suspect the problem on this board is a large number of posters in their teens and early 20's who know nothing about it.

I have been trying to tell them that for a month now.  It's dead reliable.  The AK47 of power supplies. Before it was a budget PSU, it was the unit you purchased to power SLI, Crossfire, Pentium EE systems, overclocked Thuban X6,  Overclocked Core 2 Duo's and Core I7's, overclocked Bulldozer FX chips, and everything in between, all of which drew a LOT more power than today's systems do. That's where its stellar reputation came from.  Powering hard core gaming machines for over a decade and powering them reliably, just like it does today. You can't fake that kind of performance or reputation. It may not be the best PSU anymore, but it's damn reliable. Most veterans know that already.   I suspect the problem on this board is a large number of posters in their teens and early 20's who know nothing about it.

It's always interesting how much pricing varies from country to country.  Be quiets in particular seem to always be either great deals or overpriced.

I have been trying to tell them that for a month now.  It's dead reliable.  The AK47 of power supplies. Before it was a budget PSU, it was the unit you purchased to power SLI, Crossfire, Pentium EE systems, overclocked Thuban X6,  Overclocked Core 2 Duo's and Core I7's, overclocked Bulldozer FX chips, and everything in between, all of which drew a LOT more power than today's systems do. That's where its stellar reputation came from.  Powering hard core gaming machines for over a decade and powering them reliably, just like it does today. You can't fake that kind of performance or reputation. It may not be the best PSU anymore, but it's damn reliable. Most veterans know that already.   I suspect the problem on this board is a large number of posters in their teens and early 20's who know nothing about it.

I have been trying to tell them that for a month now.  It's dead reliable.  The AK47 of power supplies. Before it was a budget PSU, it was the unit you purchased to power SLI, Crossfire, Pentium EE systems, overclocked Thuban X6,  Overclocked Core 2 Duo's and Core I7's, overclocked Bulldozer FX chips, and everything in between, all of which drew a LOT more power than today's systems do. That's where its stellar reputation came from.  Powering hard core gaming machines for over a decade and powering them reliably, just like it does today. You can't fake that kind of performance or reputation. It may not be the best PSU anymore, but it's damn reliable. Most veterans know that already.   I suspect the problem on this board is a large number of posters in their teens and early 20's who know nothing about it.

I suspect the video is bit more reflective of his personality.   Text-only communication loses emotional context very easily and can seem a lot harsher than intended.

No reviews = no tiering.
 
(Also the tier list is terrible don't use it) 

The PRO's aren't the ones who do that. This board has a corps of wannabe PSU experts who are very vocal, but not particularly skilled.  They are the usual suspects.  

Except I'm not wrong.  And I glad you mentioned this because there is a REASON I object to this nonsense.
 
A couple weeks back a guy with an S12II 620 came here looking for advice on a new GPU.  He wanted to know if his PSU could handle it.  This was NOT a new build.  He was just upgrading the GPU, which was fine with his setup.  He was immediately descended upon by posters trying to convince him that his system was going to blow up and he should buy a System Power 9 or Pure Power 11.  
 
It's one thing to argue that the System Power 9 is better for a NEW build, but this guy already had a perfectly good PSU in the same class.  You guys were trying to convince him to basically waste $60-80 based on a completely nonsensical narrative.  Being that far off the mark when its just a theoretical exercise is one thing.   Convincing people to waste their hard earned money is something else.  Sixty to eighty bucks is a lot of money for some people. That's not cool.

Except I'm not wrong.  And I glad you mentioned this because there is a REASON I object to this nonsense.
 
A couple weeks back a guy with an S12II 620 came here looking for advice on a new GPU.  He wanted to know if his PSU could handle it.  This was NOT a new build.  He was just upgrading the GPU, which was fine with his setup.  He was immediately descended upon by posters trying to convince him that his system was going to blow up and he should buy a System Power 9 or Pure Power 11.  
 
It's one thing to argue that the System Power 9 is better for a NEW build, but this guy already had a perfectly good PSU in the same class.  You guys were trying to convince him to basically waste $60-80 based on a completely nonsensical narrative.  Being that far off the mark when its just a theoretical exercise is one thing.   Convincing people to waste their hard earned money is something else.  Sixty to eighty bucks is a lot of money for some people. That's not cool.

No.  It's supposed to trip before a hazardous electrical fault occurs.  Exceeding the ATX ripple spec for less than 10w at a 150w overdraw is not a hazardous electrical fault.  This unit performed perfectly fine.

 
 
Be honest, I don't feel super good about that one either, but it's not enough to justify not ever using it.  This is tier list, not a personal preference list.  I don't buy EVGA at all.  I have my issues with them and this type of quality control is one of those issues.  That said, its still a 1 in 10,000 issue and the G3 is still one of the best units out there.
 
 
 
 
Of course I can prove it.   Like I said, it's competitive with the low end DC to DC designs, like the Pure Power 11, and System Power 9.  And they win one category by default.   What chance do think a unit without that advantage is going to have?  I haven't done it to date because I don't think you guys really want to know.  I mean how have you guys gone 2+ years believing this nonsense?   At some point, someone should have asked themselves how Seasonic developed their amazing reputation when their best selling unit was over the past 15 years is supposedly an "office grade" unit.  You should have asked yourselves why Antec, XFX, Corsair, and PCP&C, all had such great reputations when using it.   Not to mention the excellent pro reviews.  Something should have clicked, but it didn't because you really didn't want to know.
 
BUT......if you are genuinely open to the idea that you might have been wrong all this time.....I will make the case.  But the idea that you were misled for 2 years isn't an easy pill to swallow.  Trust me.  I have been there.
 
 

jrivers010, I think the problem is the tier list, not you.  One reason I tell people to ignore tier list and do their own research is that such lists tend to be compromised in a number of ways, particularly personal bias. Case in point are these three units. I have SERIOUS issues with the way things are assessed by LukeSavenije and a few others on this forum.  Their conclusions are not necessarily shared by the greater enthusiast community.  Lets have a look, shall we:
 
 
1)   The Seasonic Focus issue with shutting down with big time GPU's was a real issue that did occur, but it was infrequent, limited to a few GPU's, and has been corrected in more recent iterations., The alleged "ripple" issue he referenced occurred during an overload test of a 750w Focus near the 900 watt mark.  In fact, the issue only occurred right before shutdown.  At 888 watts, the ripple was 50mv.  It then shut down at 900 watts. Any load that high would trip the OPP before the ripple could manifest itself. So its a complete non-issue. 
 
2)   The EVGA G3 had a couple of hard shutdowns during an overload tests.  While that was not a pleasing outcome at all, sticking it in tier D based on that is nonsense. It has excellent overall performance
 
3)   The Seasonic S12II and M12II still have a strong case for being the best best budget PSU's out there.  Seasonic hasn't dumbed it down at all.  It's still just as rugged and reliable as ever. Now it does have some impressive competition, particularly from the Corsair CX and BitFenix, and many now take the view that independently regulated units are always better options. But tier D, with about 18 group regulated units in Tier C?  That is absolutely ridiculous. The S12II is probably the best group regulated unit ever made.    
 
Just as a case in point, the FSP Raider (the original version) is listed as tier C.  The S12II beats it up, take its lunch money, and steal its girlfriend, and it does it in almost EVERY CATEGORY.  But somehow he thinks the Raider is Tier C while the S12II, Focus, and G3 are tier D.  If the S12II can do that to the Raider, imagine what the G3 and Focus would do to it.  And this is FAR from a comprehensive list of problems with the tier list. 
 
 
 
 

Except I'm not wrong.  And I glad you mentioned this because there is a REASON I object to this nonsense.
 
A couple weeks back a guy with an S12II 620 came here looking for advice on a new GPU.  He wanted to know if his PSU could handle it.  This was NOT a new build.  He was just upgrading the GPU, which was fine with his setup.  He was immediately descended upon by posters trying to convince him that his system was going to blow up and he should buy a System Power 9 or Pure Power 11.  
 
It's one thing to argue that the System Power 9 is better for a NEW build, but this guy already had a perfectly good PSU in the same class.  You guys were trying to convince him to basically waste $60-80 based on a completely nonsensical narrative.  Being that far off the mark when its just a theoretical exercise is one thing.   Convincing people to waste their hard earned money is something else.  Sixty to eighty bucks is a lot of money for some people. That's not cool.

Except I'm not wrong.  And I glad you mentioned this because there is a REASON I object to this nonsense.
 
A couple weeks back a guy with an S12II 620 came here looking for advice on a new GPU.  He wanted to know if his PSU could handle it.  This was NOT a new build.  He was just upgrading the GPU, which was fine with his setup.  He was immediately descended upon by posters trying to convince him that his system was going to blow up and he should buy a System Power 9 or Pure Power 11.  
 
It's one thing to argue that the System Power 9 is better for a NEW build, but this guy already had a perfectly good PSU in the same class.  You guys were trying to convince him to basically waste $60-80 based on a completely nonsensical narrative.  Being that far off the mark when its just a theoretical exercise is one thing.   Convincing people to waste their hard earned money is something else.  Sixty to eighty bucks is a lot of money for some people. That's not cool.

If you are going to spend that much more on your PSU, then consider the Corsair RM550x.  It's currently on sale at Newegg for $79 after rebate.  It's a significant upgrade in quality over the Be Quiet for about the same price:
 
https://www.newegg.com/corsair-rmx-series-rm550x-cp-9020177-na-550w/p/N82E16817139231?Item=N82E16817139231
 
 

I'm not as high on the RM as I am on the RMx.   If that is the regular RM, I probably go with the Seasonic Focus.

I'm inclined to agree.  BitFenix is an intriguing PSU

Your rig built itself?  That's extremely impressive!  

Your rig built itself?  That's extremely impressive!  

I probably should have warned you that there is an active group of Seasonic M12II haters on this board. I have no idea how this started, but most of them just repeat the same three talking points over and over and have no idea whether its good or not. The M12II a very good budget PSU and very reliable.  Seasonics reputation for reliability is in no small part based on this units long term performance. It has anchored their low to mid range offerings for 15 years.

I probably should have warned you that there is an active group of Seasonic M12II haters on this board. I have no idea how this started, but most of them just repeat the same three talking points over and over and have no idea whether its good or not. The M12II a very good budget PSU and very reliable.  Seasonics reputation for reliability is in no small part based on this units long term performance. It has anchored their low to mid range offerings for 15 years.

I probably should have warned you that there is an active group of Seasonic M12II haters on this board. I have no idea how this started, but most of them just repeat the same three talking points over and over and have no idea whether its good or not. The M12II a very good budget PSU and very reliable.  Seasonics reputation for reliability is in no small part based on this units long term performance. It has anchored their low to mid range offerings for 15 years.

To answer your first question, the S12II has been the AK47 or Chevy small block of the PSU world for the past 15 years. It's one of the most reviewed PSU's of all-time, with at least dozen pro reviews that I can think off the top of my head. It boasted an impressive reputation that played a big role in Seasonics own reputation for quality, and that reputation is well deserved.   I'm not accustomed to having to explain how good it is to people.  But I promise I will just as shocked the next time someone questions the reliability and performance of the AK47 or the Chevy small block.
 
By the way, that XFX XT isn't an S12II.  A dozen pro reviews over 15 years, remember?   I know exactly what an S12II performance curve looks like.  That one isn't even close.  In fact, its grotesquely worse than any Seasonic model I have seen tested. Even the brown box OEM models do MUCH better than that.  Either the XT isn't based on an S12II at all, XFX made significant changes from the reference design, or they just ended up with a defective unit.  The actual S12II 520 produces 3% regulation under a max 12v cross load.  The OP's unit, the M12II 620 also produces 3% regulation at max 12v crossload.  At the OP's projected load of 430w, the M12II 620 does 2% regulation on a 12v crossload. This data comes from full spectrum crossload tests for the 430, the 520, and 620 in my archives, all taken from professional reviews.  And that alone should give you an idea how much attention I pay to such matters.
 
This is why you do your own leg work instead just believing what you read on the internet..  People have agendas and biases and get caught up in group think.  You can let them do the thinking for you, or you can verify the data yourself.  If more people on here chose to verify the data themselves, I suspect the views on the S12II would be quite different.
 
Make no mistake, the S12II is an older design and there are much better PSU's out there.  I'm particularly fond of the Corsair RMx series.  But other unit being BETTER is not the same as this one being bad.  Its rugged and reliable and still makes a excellent entry level PSU if the price is right.

To answer your first question, the S12II has been the AK47 or Chevy small block of the PSU world for the past 15 years. It's one of the most reviewed PSU's of all-time, with at least dozen pro reviews that I can think off the top of my head. It boasted an impressive reputation that played a big role in Seasonics own reputation for quality, and that reputation is well deserved.   I'm not accustomed to having to explain how good it is to people.  But I promise I will just as shocked the next time someone questions the reliability and performance of the AK47 or the Chevy small block.
 
By the way, that XFX XT isn't an S12II.  A dozen pro reviews over 15 years, remember?   I know exactly what an S12II performance curve looks like.  That one isn't even close.  In fact, its grotesquely worse than any Seasonic model I have seen tested. Even the brown box OEM models do MUCH better than that.  Either the XT isn't based on an S12II at all, XFX made significant changes from the reference design, or they just ended up with a defective unit.  The actual S12II 520 produces 3% regulation under a max 12v cross load.  The OP's unit, the M12II 620 also produces 3% regulation at max 12v crossload.  At the OP's projected load of 430w, the M12II 620 does 2% regulation on a 12v crossload. This data comes from full spectrum crossload tests for the 430, the 520, and 620 in my archives, all taken from professional reviews.  And that alone should give you an idea how much attention I pay to such matters.
 
This is why you do your own leg work instead just believing what you read on the internet..  People have agendas and biases and get caught up in group think.  You can let them do the thinking for you, or you can verify the data yourself.  If more people on here chose to verify the data themselves, I suspect the views on the S12II would be quite different.
 
Make no mistake, the S12II is an older design and there are much better PSU's out there.  I'm particularly fond of the Corsair RMx series.  But other unit being BETTER is not the same as this one being bad.  Its rugged and reliable and still makes a excellent entry level PSU if the price is right.

I probably should have warned you that there is an active group of Seasonic M12II haters on this board. I have no idea how this started, but most of them just repeat the same three talking points over and over and have no idea whether its good or not. The M12II a very good budget PSU and very reliable.  Seasonics reputation for reliability is in no small part based on this units long term performance. It has anchored their low to mid range offerings for 15 years.