FALC0N

19 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

It's whack complaining about failed protections, when the failures seem to be when someone significantly overloads a power supply. If something is failing in an expected environment then yeah it should be lambasted, but no one should be surprised something fails when you completely disregard every bit of common sense surrounding its use. Power supply calculators exist for a reason.

Agreed.  Its worth considering as part of a balanced assessment, but they take it WAY too far.

3 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

so you posted in an obscure topic that got no traffic and we were somehow supposed to see that? you didn't even mention me or hit the agree button so nobody got pinged, how was anyone gonna find out

 Which is why I offered to quote ALL OF MY PAST SUGGESTIONS.  It's almost like I could predict what your response was going to be.  Yet you still wrote it.

Quote

and you sill didn't give a reason why the Photon should be a leg up. You didn't point out the specific flaw in the tier list that misrepresents the difference in the Photon and the RMX so what was even the point. therefore

it wasn't actionable information, just an opinion you threw out during a mini rant.

As suggestions are often opinions, this criticism is irrelevant. 

Quote

no thanks, all your posts are recorded already. If you truly believe that we wouldn't go back to reevaluate, don't waste your time posting again here and spinning your tires in the mud.

you have constantly said that every criticism levied against many seasonic PSUs were not true, and have stated multiple times that the entire concept of a tier list is bogus and this one should be disposed of. This entire remark is a boldfaced lie.

Could you be more specific?  Exactly what is a "bold faced lie" in your mind? 

And if you are aware of my past input, then why did you incorrectly state just a few posts before that such posts were never made?  In fact, you just alluded to a couple examples in the form of the questionable categorization and criteria applied to several Seasonic units. You are repeatedly contradicting your own logic.  I am not even sure what your point is anymore, other than you don't like my opinion.

Just for clarification, believing a tier list is pointless and offering suggestions for it are not mutually exclusive positions.

3 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

let me say something as simple as this

 

i do nothing with complaints anymore, as they don't contribute in any way

 

constructive change can be done, but otherwise you can go on all you want, but that would rather increase the chance of getting ignored rather than i'd actually make work out of it.

 

and seeing you called me a liar, my work bs and i've explained multiple times why your precious units are in it's place, i'm done

You never listened to the criticisms to begin with.  How is this any different than before?

I think you are confusing me with one of the many others who criticized the list.  I never called you a liar and I don't recall calling your work BS either.

3 hours ago, Fasauceome said:

Yeah sorry but your "contributions" have amounted to

"List sux delete it"

And

"Seasonic rulz"

So I'm not sure what you're doing is in any way constructive.

1 hour ago, MEC-777 said:

We asked you, very politely, in the last tier list thread, to share your ideas and received no response. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3 hours ago, Gegger said:

if you can't be civil or/and have constructive feedback please leave

We don't even have to leave tonight's post to put that claim to rest.  Four hours ago, in the thread titled "Rosewill PHOTON 50W vs Corsair RM650x PSU?" I wrote:

"The tier lists in this forum are a hot mess and barely worth considering. The Corsair RMx should be at least a tier up and has a solid advantage over the Photon." 

There you go.  An example of a clear and actionable information that will be ignored like all the others.  I didn't even have to leave this evenings posts to prove you wrong.  And Fasauceome, you posted in that thread.  I have a lot more where that came from.  Just give the word and I will happily quote them for you going back two months. I could also restate all those criticisms and suggestions if you wish.  But claiming that I wasn't offering them is just bizarre.

20 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

Funny, the people who love to hate on this list go out of their way to throw shade at it, but don't like to contribute ideas or be constructive.  Haters 'gon hate eh?

I contribute ideas all the time.  So do most of the other critics.   They are simply ignored.  Which especially shocking when you consider how knowledgeable some of the critics are.  

1 hour ago, LogicWeasel said:

You seem kinda ranty about this "Tier-D" power supply of yours, care to help make more sense out of your posting and actually TELL us what model, since you seem so keen on sharing about it?

that's neat  are you sure you didn't just throw the word "BIOS" in there to make that sound fancier?  Cuz not sure how you stress test a GPU Bios.

 

To confirm that a power supply you own, is currently able to supply voltage to your CPU while it's under a stress test?  That's super neat also.  That clearly contradicts any idea that there was ever a PSU manufactured that has better design or performance than whatever that is.

Given the number of really solid to great PSU's that end up in Tier D, it wouldn't shock me at all if he was right. The list in its current form is a joke.

3 hours ago, FaxedForward said:

 

Based on the existing tier lists I had my sights set on the Corsair RM650x PSU as it seemed perfect for my planned build. However Newegg has a DEEP discount on the Rosewill PHOTON 650W right now. On the old tier list, at least, these PSUs were neck and neck...

 

Should I pull the trigger on this Rosewill for $65 or hold out for the Corsair to go on sale?

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16817182322?Item=N82E16817182322

The tier lists in this forum are a hot mess and barely worth considering.  The Corsair RMx should be at least a tier up and has a solid advantage over the Photon. 

That said, I agree with Fasauceome that the Photon is a great value at that price point.

1 hour ago, artbywaqas said:

That would be great! But how do I figure out what's wrong?

Was this your first build?

1 hour ago, artbywaqas said:

With my first power supply my computer just wouldn't power on one day.

This time it randomly restarted one day while the computer was idle? 
I thought maybe it could be some kind of driver issue so I made sure the graphics card driver was updated. 

So once in a while it would restart. But now this friday morning it shut down. It would not power on at all. Then when I came back in the evening it was on by itself !?  However when I logged into Windows it would just keep restarting and not even make it to the windows log in screen. 

That's pretty much what it's doing now. If it lets me log in it will either restart right away or after a bit. Then it gets stuck constantly restarting. I had to unplug it to get it to stop.

This is even after I turned off the automatic restart option.
 

I'm not convinced that this is a PSU issue.

10 minutes ago, minibois said:

Feel free to suggest a different PSU from what I suggested 

A tier list should never be the 'Be-all And End-all' of discussion, but can serve as a helpful guide to not choose garbage.

That is true.  At least there isn't much garbage in the upper tiers.    Hard to make a recommendation without knowing his location.  Pricing varies so much from country to country.  I guess I will ask.

On 11/1/2019 at 10:09 PM, Jhunxkie said:

My rig:

Gigabyte ga-h81m-ds2

I5-4460

2 hyperx 1600 8gb

1 asus 750ti 2gb

1 kingston ssd 240gb

1 wd blue 1tb

2 wd blue 500gb

4 generic fan with led

May I ask where you are located?   Do have any preferred web sites you like to purchase from?

31 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

I suspect it could be a quirk of the older plattform of the s12ii.

A fair point. That sort of thing is always possible, even with newer units.

Quote

Navi isnt power hungry, but its likely it has some demands certain older PSUs, like perhaps the S12ii, simply cant deliver.  Assuming its a non-modified S12ii plattform. 

That particular card can push 300 watts.  It's not exactly a lightweight.  I just know that I see a lot of issues with them that are finally resolved with new PSU's.  It's a good card, but I am wary of it if you aren't sporting a meaty PSU.  Remember, a little more wattage can help with big transient spikes too.  It's not strictly about sustained load.  Just don't downgrade quality for wattage.  That would be a mistake.

Good point about it possibly being modified.  S12II based XFX units always seem to display odd behaviors.  I have no idea what they change but I never trusted them as much as other variants.  Especially true of the TS series, which the specs claim has DC to DC .   I am not aware of any reviews of this unit either.

2 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

just thinking... have you ever shown me crossload data?

Have you? 

There have been links to 3 or 4 reviews of S12II and S12II based units posted here in the last two months, including at least one by you.  None of them have displayed the behavior you describe.  I could post more if I really wanted to, but your the guy doing the PSU tier list, remember?  This is one you should be able to figure out on your own.  Especially given that the S12II is one of the most reviewed units of all time.

On 11/2/2019 at 10:16 AM, Vejnemojnen said:

I would highly recommend a tiny undervolt, -5% voltage. Will cause a bit drop in power hunger and temperatures, won't affect performance 

This is actually a really good suggestion.   I have seen a GPU undervolt solve a few of these types of issues.

On 10/31/2019 at 9:46 AM, Jaime said:

 

650 Watts its enough ?

Yes.  GoldenLag isn't totally wrong when he says a good 550 would probably work too, BUT I have seen that particular card cause a lot of psu issues. In your case, it has already done so once.   I think the safest thing to do in that instance is to make sure you get a high end PSU and up the wattage a bit.  Don't break the bank doing it, but its $20 more to get an RM650x instead of the 550x. 

On 10/31/2019 at 11:06 AM, GoldenLag said:

Makes sence why falcon commented then. Suggesting more wattage when its not the issue. The real issue is the age of the S12ii

 

 

If age is the issue then why did the cx600 not have issues?  Its a double forward, group regulated unit too.  Its not out of the question, but my sense it that there is something more at work here.

Quote

A good 550w is more than enough for any consumer config. 

ANY config?  How about a Radeon R9 295X2 and an FX 9000 series cpu?

On 10/31/2019 at 9:52 AM, LukeSavenije said:

ts bronze is as far as i'm aware a Seasonic S12ii, a rather outdated 10 year old platform that i wouldn't put much stress on, as it's group regulated and too much load on the 12v compared to the 5v can bring it out of spec

No it won't.   We have had this discussion a few times.  The S12II series does not go out of spec on 12v crossloads.

On 11/2/2019 at 12:07 AM, minibois said:

They Grey units are fine, the orange label units were... Less good.

For a system like you mentioned it will work, but if you want to upgrade specifically your GPU in the future, you can consider going up a tier (see the PSU tier list linked below) and get a 550w model to offset the quality increase and get a PSU fit for all but the most high end dual GPU systems:

 

The Pure Power 9 from Be Quiet would be my go to, but it depends on the availability where you live.

The tier list is a waste of time.  Too many units incorrectly categorized.

15 hours ago, SupaKomputa said:

You can't use a program, a program can be used to predict, and it's not accurate.

To do it properly you have to use a watt meter, that should accurately count how much power the PC is using through the power cable.

 

Bear in mind that the reading on such a device does not account for the psu efficiency curve.  A certain percentage of power is lost to heat during the AC to DC conversion.  That percentage usually falls between 8% and 20%, depending upon your PSU and the system load at that particular moment.  Meaning the components after the PSU will be using a little less power than the power draw reading from the wall.  

3 hours ago, Jaime said:

 

I tried my pc using a different psu ( Corsair CX 600) and i had no problems , no reboots.

There isn't that much of a difference between the output of the TS 550 and the CX 600.  Either the TS just needs replacement anyways or your system is right on the edge of its power requirement and thé CX gave it enough of a boost to stabilize it.

The RX 5700 XT Nitro is a pretty vicious card.  I see a lot of people reporting PSU issues with it.   Going with another 550 watt unit is highly ill-advised in my view.  I recommend  650w minimum here.  

2 hours ago, The Torrent said:

ahhhhhhhhhh

 

well imo stupid decision from corsair still, destroy the aesthetics for a few little caps that make at max 25mv difference.

I disagree.  I take the extra performance every day of the week and twice on Sundays.   Besides, there are plenty of other options if you feel that strongly about the in-cable caps.  The RM for example (non-X or I edition). 

34 minutes ago, Liborio said:

No problem. Will do. I have downloaded the latest. What test would you like me to run? The power test again? The other options are attached. Thank you.

Run the same test you ran before

2 hours ago, Liborio said:

Thank you for your input.

 

Regarding the PSU test, the results were from a troubleshooting application (OCCT) - please see 

 

Another member noticed a power spike. This is the only thing pointing towards PSU.

 

As for your comment on CPU, i was told these are normal temps but perhaps that is a good observation about the difference in temps.

 

What would you suggest i do from here?

 

Thank you kindly.

Could you download the latest version of OCCT, which I think is 5.4.2 and rerun that test?   I want to see if we get same temp reading this time.  It almost looks like it's throttling and coming back when it cools.

1 hour ago, Liborio said:

Appreciate both your responses. I noticed this occur not long after i purchased it. I have a background in IT (Cyber Security particularly) so i wanted to figure out what is was. After years of troubleshooting, testing, forums etc. No one is able to pin point it. Some forum threads around this:

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/windows-10-pc-freezing-randomly-since-bought-in-2016.3483402/

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/suspected-psu-fault-occt-error.3489370/

I cant begin to explain how many threads ive made and the amount of troubleshooting ive done to try pin point the issue. From replacing SSD, reinstalling Windows, RAM tests, GPU tests, CPU tests, temperature monitoring etc. I have come down to a process of elimination starting with the PSU then MOBO. If that all fails, i dont know what else to do.

 

Any further help would be really appreciated.

 

Thank you.

There is a lot data to sort through there.  Two things did catch my eye:

1)  You mentioned a PSU test of some sort that apparently failed, but I didn't see any mention of the type of test, posting of the results, or the precise nature of the failure.  

2). In one of the tests you did post, the CPU temperature was cycling between 60c and 85c during what appeared to be a CPU stress test.  This strikes me as very odd behavior as temps usually stay fairly stable under stress tests and 80c+ is pretty darn hot.

Can you shed any light on either of these events and have you observed any correlation between temperature and the freezes?

Edit:  I figured out which test was the PSU test. Odd CPU temps were in OCCT

1 hour ago, seon123 said:

If anything is overclocked, disable the overclock. If you are completely sure that the PSU is the issue, get the PSU replaced by the store, or by Seasonic under warranty.

I agree with seon123.  You don't want to spend $100+ only to find out that it was something else all along.  Could you walk us throughwhen the symptoms occur and what troubleshooting you have done so far?

1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

except that atx spec allows up to 120mv, which i personally already find high

Not how that works.  They only have to stay in spec for the rated load.  Nor are they required to shut down before going out of spec.  It's certainly nice if they do, but 150w+ is neither an issue nor any cause for concern.  

Quote

that one finding was @-The_Mask-

No, I wasn't talking about Mask.  It isn't important anyways.