BlueGoliath

A friendly reminder to LTT that the last time y'all covered Linux in your Manjaro gaming video, bad things went down on places like Reddit as a result of your content. If you plan on doing a misleading click-bait YouTube video praising Linux's upside without carefully phrasing and wording things you're going to end up causing another crap show. There are already many supposed benefits listed by others in this thread that either blatantly aren't true, half truths, or replacing Windows/Mac problem X with Linux problem Y. I ain't saying that there aren't 10 reasonable upsides to Linux over Windows/Mac but rather to be careful...
 
Or don't. I kinda want to read and archive all the terrible comments. Should be fun.
 
 
 
 

I mean, the 1800x isn't a good gaming CPU by a long shot but it's very good at software compiling which I do more often than you'd think. 
 
Not that there where any reviewers talking about the various BIOS/firmware update issues to begin with to base my decision on but OK, asking people to dig through random game forums for information is kinda fair I guess. I'll just have to google "ryzen <game> <potential issue>" and see what results I get. /s
 
 
Ah, so you fall on that side of the political spectrum.
 
 
I took it that way because this isn't relevant at all. Does this in anyway make the statements made by LTT in their newest video valid?

(Note: tried to make this reasonably calm in order to avoid any possible reason for a moderator to take this down. I don't post here and I don't know how removal/ban happy the moderators are. If you are a moderator and have any issues with this please PM me or something first and I can change it. Thanks.)
 
Hey LTT, can you stop with the flip flopping on AMD's CPUs? 
 
This has kind of been an on-going thing but... your remarks regarding AMD's CPUs in your recent video don't at all match what was said in your previous Ryzen CPU reviews at all. At no point in ANY of your reviews did you EVER say that first or second generation are "top-tier performance". 
 
Here in the Ryzen 1 review conclusion it was even said that(and I quote):
 
 
which isn't even close to being "top-tier performance".  A CS:GO benchmark earlier in the same freaking video even backs that claim up.
 
and again with the Ryzen 2 review, not ever at any point was Ryzen 2 claimed to have top-tier performance. Once again, in the same video, it was said that:
 
 
In other words, it doesn't have top-tier performance.
 
While i'm at it, that CS:GO benchmark you tech YouTubers do is not in anyway representative of actual in-game performance. You will and do get abnormally high framerates that you would never see in-game at any reasonable level of consistency.  I get that CS:GO has no actual official benchmark but people are going to just take those numbers and expect that's what they will get in-game. That CS:GO benchmark is so unrepresentative of any actual real-world performance that it causes a power limit bottleneck on a GTX 1080 FTW2(215 Watt default). No actual real world GPU load does this EVER. It may get close but never enough to trigger the power limit performance limiter from NVML. You're misleading people using this benchmark and you should know that.
 
Then you take simply misleading to downright being idiotic territory in your LTT gaming lounge video when you compared Intel Vs. AMD gaming performance, . Since freaking when is the massive performance difference in CS:GO and Apex Legends on AMD Vs. Intel not a big deal?
 
 Do you even play CS:GO?
 
Have you ever even uncapped the framerate and let it go beyond 144Hz/whatever the monitor's refresh rate is? 
 
I feel a LTT  "you can only see 24 FPS" moment here. Playing a game at extremely high framerates, especially for CS:GO, is big deal. Hell, you don't even need a 144Hz monitor to see that, even with a  basic OEM at 60Hz you'l notice a massive reduction in latency between your mouse/keyboard movements and what happens on-screen. This shouldn't be news to anyone, especially not someone who uses such high-end hardware like LTT.
 
And of course, the video shows that AMD once again is beaten by Intel.
 
Yet, despite this, you say that AMD has had top tier performance for 3 generations. That's blatant BS and your previous videos state and prove that.
 
While i'm at it, can I just point out the irony in you people saying you(and I quote):
 
 
 
in one of your YouTube video titles despite using AMD for your gaming lounge which you released earlier. Really? I know your company is hurting for money since Linus keeps dropping all the expensive hardware all the damn time(/joke) but this is blatant BS. You obviously had plenty of faith in AMD if you used their CPUs in your gaming lounge despite the massive performance differences between the two. In fact, your faith was so great you ignored the massive performance difference and used them regardless.
 
Which, by the way, what the actual hell happened there? This is Linus Tech Tips, you don't compromise, remember Linus? LTT is always balls to the wall. You throw in Titan graphics cards just because you can despite it not really being for gaming, remember? So why are you settling for so much less for your own employee gaming lounge now all of a sudden?
 
But back to your recent video....
 
 
 
There is absolutely no guarantee that a first generation motherboard would be able to safety handle a third generation CPU, as many didn't have extremely good VRMs.
 
 
OK, so why aren't you or anyone else for that matter calling them out for that? They promised full forwards compatibility when they first revealed the AM4 socket, didn't they? Aren't you supposed to criticize them for that? Hello?
 
Something tells me that if Intel pulled this ya'll would be all over them but because AMD is an underdog and is apparently new to the CPU business(they aren't, actually) they get off the hook? Really?
 
 
Like removing BIOS features and not supporting newer CPUs when they said they would?
 
Why does LTT pretend that AMD is somehow new to the CPU game and that CPUs are made within days without years of planning and/or research and development? Your telling me that they didn't know approximately how large their firmware was going to be or that motherboard vendors would need better VRMs in order to insure safe usage with newer CPUs and couldn't release public recommendations of base motherboard hardware? Really?
 
 
Excuse me, but are you or are you not tech reviewers? Is it not your responsibility to review products fairly without bias, report on things that affect said products(BIOS/Firmware update bugs), and criticize companies when they do something bad? Why are you just sitting there and shrugging like you're some innocent bystander and not a channel with over 9 million subscribers and major industry influence who reviews these products and follows the industry? YOU should be ass-blasting them for breaking their promises, but instead you're basically kissing their ass. Really?
 
Furthermore, why does LTT keep ignoring BIOS/Firmware screwups from AMD and their board partners? There was a major firmware bug that affected many Ryzen systems in Frostbite engine games which didn't get fixed for months. Absolutely no coverage on that whatsoever. What about motherboard vendors reducing the features on their motherboards? Does LTT even use more than one motherboard/BIOS version unless they absolutely have to switch to something else? It took Asrock over 10 BIOS versions to get the HD UEFI to run at good performance with their Taichi X370! How can you even claim that your reviews are representative when you don't ever seem to test with any other motherboards/BIOS versions? Why do you pretend like the platform doesn't matter when clearly motherboard manufacturers can and will violate specifications in order to get better results on their boards?
 
 
And how many times does AMD need to screwup before you and other tech YouTubers realize that AMD is, as they've historically always been, inept when it comes to drivers and firmware? How many "forgot to add UEFI firmware to our GPU" level moments does it take for you to start criticizing them? At what point do you take off the training wheels on a huge long-established corporation with a record of bad driver/firmware releases and start calling them out for it? 
 
Your reviews aren't even long. Why not bump those reviews to 12 minutes at least by spending time talking about the underlying platform? Why not revisit these motherboards in a roundup every month or so and compare performance? 
 
Why not give honest, complete, and fair reviews? Your reviews(not even specific to AMD products) are so all over the place with points being made about one product but not about another. Sometimes there are good explanations for these(price, for example) but there are also other cases where there isn't. It's like every review is just kinda winging it and whatever jumps out and remembered is mentioned. This has gotten better over the years but some reviews still seem like there isn't any real structure. Again, they aren't even that long so why not extend them a tiny bit and give a more complete review?
 
Why do you flip flop so much?

Unfortunately we live in a clickbait world. We've got the entire recorded history of humanity at our fingertips, we can view any amount of entertainment whenever we want so content creators have to try to get those clicks in order to get the ad revenue to stay afloat before we get bored and move on to something else.
 
We, as both a culture and a species, are suffering from an overload of content and information in our daily lives and the clickbait titles/gaping mouth screenshots are what currently works as the best business model. 
 
I don't like it, but I acknowledge that it works. I would love for LTT to have serious video thumbnails with direct titles, but unfortunately that's not what pays the bills and puts his kids through college.

Then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how language and communication works. Never have I said that Ryzen outperforms a 7700K in GTA5. 
 
Good day, I shouldn’t have even commented on this post. 

A lot of effort went into a post that is simply explained away by newer Windows updates, Driver updates, BIOS versions and micro-code updates. AMD is simply the CPU of choice for most people in 2019.  

(Note: tried to make this reasonably calm in order to avoid any possible reason for a moderator to take this down. I don't post here and I don't know how removal/ban happy the moderators are. If you are a moderator and have any issues with this please PM me or something first and I can change it. Thanks.)
 
Hey LTT, can you stop with the flip flopping on AMD's CPUs? 
 
This has kind of been an on-going thing but... your remarks regarding AMD's CPUs in your recent video don't at all match what was said in your previous Ryzen CPU reviews at all. At no point in ANY of your reviews did you EVER say that first or second generation are "top-tier performance". 
 
Here in the Ryzen 1 review conclusion it was even said that(and I quote):
 
 
which isn't even close to being "top-tier performance".  A CS:GO benchmark earlier in the same freaking video even backs that claim up.
 
and again with the Ryzen 2 review, not ever at any point was Ryzen 2 claimed to have top-tier performance. Once again, in the same video, it was said that:
 
 
In other words, it doesn't have top-tier performance.
 
While i'm at it, that CS:GO benchmark you tech YouTubers do is not in anyway representative of actual in-game performance. You will and do get abnormally high framerates that you would never see in-game at any reasonable level of consistency.  I get that CS:GO has no actual official benchmark but people are going to just take those numbers and expect that's what they will get in-game. That CS:GO benchmark is so unrepresentative of any actual real-world performance that it causes a power limit bottleneck on a GTX 1080 FTW2(215 Watt default). No actual real world GPU load does this EVER. It may get close but never enough to trigger the power limit performance limiter from NVML. You're misleading people using this benchmark and you should know that.
 
Then you take simply misleading to downright being idiotic territory in your LTT gaming lounge video when you compared Intel Vs. AMD gaming performance, . Since freaking when is the massive performance difference in CS:GO and Apex Legends on AMD Vs. Intel not a big deal?
 
 Do you even play CS:GO?
 
Have you ever even uncapped the framerate and let it go beyond 144Hz/whatever the monitor's refresh rate is? 
 
I feel a LTT  "you can only see 24 FPS" moment here. Playing a game at extremely high framerates, especially for CS:GO, is big deal. Hell, you don't even need a 144Hz monitor to see that, even with a  basic OEM at 60Hz you'l notice a massive reduction in latency between your mouse/keyboard movements and what happens on-screen. This shouldn't be news to anyone, especially not someone who uses such high-end hardware like LTT.
 
And of course, the video shows that AMD once again is beaten by Intel.
 
Yet, despite this, you say that AMD has had top tier performance for 3 generations. That's blatant BS and your previous videos state and prove that.
 
While i'm at it, can I just point out the irony in you people saying you(and I quote):
 
 
 
in one of your YouTube video titles despite using AMD for your gaming lounge which you released earlier. Really? I know your company is hurting for money since Linus keeps dropping all the expensive hardware all the damn time(/joke) but this is blatant BS. You obviously had plenty of faith in AMD if you used their CPUs in your gaming lounge despite the massive performance differences between the two. In fact, your faith was so great you ignored the massive performance difference and used them regardless.
 
Which, by the way, what the actual hell happened there? This is Linus Tech Tips, you don't compromise, remember Linus? LTT is always balls to the wall. You throw in Titan graphics cards just because you can despite it not really being for gaming, remember? So why are you settling for so much less for your own employee gaming lounge now all of a sudden?
 
But back to your recent video....
 
 
 
There is absolutely no guarantee that a first generation motherboard would be able to safety handle a third generation CPU, as many didn't have extremely good VRMs.
 
 
OK, so why aren't you or anyone else for that matter calling them out for that? They promised full forwards compatibility when they first revealed the AM4 socket, didn't they? Aren't you supposed to criticize them for that? Hello?
 
Something tells me that if Intel pulled this ya'll would be all over them but because AMD is an underdog and is apparently new to the CPU business(they aren't, actually) they get off the hook? Really?
 
 
Like removing BIOS features and not supporting newer CPUs when they said they would?
 
Why does LTT pretend that AMD is somehow new to the CPU game and that CPUs are made within days without years of planning and/or research and development? Your telling me that they didn't know approximately how large their firmware was going to be or that motherboard vendors would need better VRMs in order to insure safe usage with newer CPUs and couldn't release public recommendations of base motherboard hardware? Really?
 
 
Excuse me, but are you or are you not tech reviewers? Is it not your responsibility to review products fairly without bias, report on things that affect said products(BIOS/Firmware update bugs), and criticize companies when they do something bad? Why are you just sitting there and shrugging like you're some innocent bystander and not a channel with over 9 million subscribers and major industry influence who reviews these products and follows the industry? YOU should be ass-blasting them for breaking their promises, but instead you're basically kissing their ass. Really?
 
Furthermore, why does LTT keep ignoring BIOS/Firmware screwups from AMD and their board partners? There was a major firmware bug that affected many Ryzen systems in Frostbite engine games which didn't get fixed for months. Absolutely no coverage on that whatsoever. What about motherboard vendors reducing the features on their motherboards? Does LTT even use more than one motherboard/BIOS version unless they absolutely have to switch to something else? It took Asrock over 10 BIOS versions to get the HD UEFI to run at good performance with their Taichi X370! How can you even claim that your reviews are representative when you don't ever seem to test with any other motherboards/BIOS versions? Why do you pretend like the platform doesn't matter when clearly motherboard manufacturers can and will violate specifications in order to get better results on their boards?
 
 
And how many times does AMD need to screwup before you and other tech YouTubers realize that AMD is, as they've historically always been, inept when it comes to drivers and firmware? How many "forgot to add UEFI firmware to our GPU" level moments does it take for you to start criticizing them? At what point do you take off the training wheels on a huge long-established corporation with a record of bad driver/firmware releases and start calling them out for it? 
 
Your reviews aren't even long. Why not bump those reviews to 12 minutes at least by spending time talking about the underlying platform? Why not revisit these motherboards in a roundup every month or so and compare performance? 
 
Why not give honest, complete, and fair reviews? Your reviews(not even specific to AMD products) are so all over the place with points being made about one product but not about another. Sometimes there are good explanations for these(price, for example) but there are also other cases where there isn't. It's like every review is just kinda winging it and whatever jumps out and remembered is mentioned. This has gotten better over the years but some reviews still seem like there isn't any real structure. Again, they aren't even that long so why not extend them a tiny bit and give a more complete review?
 
Why do you flip flop so much?

Must be shadow banned or something...
 
 
The Windows Vs. other platform comparisons are missing some much needed context. Every single one of those platforms are walled gardens to some extent. There is no proof that Linux's way of doing it is secure nor is it always easier. The fact that you need to add third party PPAs using a web browser alone cripples the whole security argument.
 
And updating software isn't black and white either. Windows just takes a "Do it yourself" approach to software management on the developers side. Yes, it can be less convenient but you know what? There are far fewer risks of a single piece of software breaking the whole update mechanism like there is with Linux.  A bad/buggy update to any package manager could literally prevent you from installing/removing software. 
 
Package managers upgrading themselves is also completely nuts. 

Must be shadow banned or something...
 
 
The Windows Vs. other platform comparisons are missing some much needed context. Every single one of those platforms are walled gardens to some extent. There is no proof that Linux's way of doing it is secure nor is it always easier. The fact that you need to add third party PPAs using a web browser alone cripples the whole security argument.
 
And updating software isn't black and white either. Windows just takes a "Do it yourself" approach to software management on the developers side. Yes, it can be less convenient but you know what? There are far fewer risks of a single piece of software breaking the whole update mechanism like there is with Linux.  A bad/buggy update to any package manager could literally prevent you from installing/removing software. 
 
Package managers upgrading themselves is also completely nuts. 

Modified paste of my comment on Reddit to be more forum friendly:
 
I'm going to be that guy that points out the nonsense before this thread inevitable turns into a giant circlejerk:
bUt LiNuX juSt WORks.
Seriously, the Linux community has been pushing the narrative that everything "just works" for a long time now. Either it does or it doesn't. Stop lying to draw people into Linux and then when people complain about issues say that they didn't do their research.
There is some middle ground where neither Linux nor the user is as fault(firmware bugs) here but the Linux community knowingly lies about absolute problems that aren't.
 
Seriously, I think Linus even perfectly highlighted this when his computer crashes but you're going to just ignore that fact.
 
 
Christ, it makes NO difference for games that actually need the extensions or game/engine specific quirks. I did a comparison between the Vulkan beta drivers and the standard ones and there was literally NO DIFFERENCE in Doom, GTA 5, and Skyrim SE. There was a performance jump between 390-400 that I personally observed but that probably had more to do with the removal of legacy code than anything else.
IIRC it wasn't even possible to find the Steam package via gnome-software in Ubuntu at the time. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Steam updates itself anyway. You rarely, if ever, get updates for it via the package manager.
Not correct? Nothing was shown that wasn't par for the course. A normal user just installing Ubuntu would have a very similar experience. You just want Linus to jump through hoops to make Linux look better despite, again, the claim that Linux Just Works(TM).
Seriously, stop being dishonest.
 
Linus in his Proton video:
 
ouch.
 
Linus's video on Proton/Linux gaming was fair and representative. I'd even argue he went above and beyond what he should have given the Linux community's lies that Linux Just Works(TM).

Modified paste of my comment on Reddit to be more forum friendly:
 
I'm going to be that guy that points out the nonsense before this thread inevitable turns into a giant circlejerk:
bUt LiNuX juSt WORks.
Seriously, the Linux community has been pushing the narrative that everything "just works" for a long time now. Either it does or it doesn't. Stop lying to draw people into Linux and then when people complain about issues say that they didn't do their research.
There is some middle ground where neither Linux nor the user is as fault(firmware bugs) here but the Linux community knowingly lies about absolute problems that aren't.
 
Seriously, I think Linus even perfectly highlighted this when his computer crashes but you're going to just ignore that fact.
 
 
Christ, it makes NO difference for games that actually need the extensions or game/engine specific quirks. I did a comparison between the Vulkan beta drivers and the standard ones and there was literally NO DIFFERENCE in Doom, GTA 5, and Skyrim SE. There was a performance jump between 390-400 that I personally observed but that probably had more to do with the removal of legacy code than anything else.
IIRC it wasn't even possible to find the Steam package via gnome-software in Ubuntu at the time. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Steam updates itself anyway. You rarely, if ever, get updates for it via the package manager.
Not correct? Nothing was shown that wasn't par for the course. A normal user just installing Ubuntu would have a very similar experience. You just want Linus to jump through hoops to make Linux look better despite, again, the claim that Linux Just Works(TM).
Seriously, stop being dishonest.
 
Linus in his Proton video:
 
ouch.
 
Linus's video on Proton/Linux gaming was fair and representative. I'd even argue he went above and beyond what he should have given the Linux community's lies that Linux Just Works(TM).

Modified paste of my comment on Reddit to be more forum friendly:
 
I'm going to be that guy that points out the nonsense before this thread inevitable turns into a giant circlejerk:
bUt LiNuX juSt WORks.
Seriously, the Linux community has been pushing the narrative that everything "just works" for a long time now. Either it does or it doesn't. Stop lying to draw people into Linux and then when people complain about issues say that they didn't do their research.
There is some middle ground where neither Linux nor the user is as fault(firmware bugs) here but the Linux community knowingly lies about absolute problems that aren't.
 
Seriously, I think Linus even perfectly highlighted this when his computer crashes but you're going to just ignore that fact.
 
 
Christ, it makes NO difference for games that actually need the extensions or game/engine specific quirks. I did a comparison between the Vulkan beta drivers and the standard ones and there was literally NO DIFFERENCE in Doom, GTA 5, and Skyrim SE. There was a performance jump between 390-400 that I personally observed but that probably had more to do with the removal of legacy code than anything else.
IIRC it wasn't even possible to find the Steam package via gnome-software in Ubuntu at the time. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Steam updates itself anyway. You rarely, if ever, get updates for it via the package manager.
Not correct? Nothing was shown that wasn't par for the course. A normal user just installing Ubuntu would have a very similar experience. You just want Linus to jump through hoops to make Linux look better despite, again, the claim that Linux Just Works(TM).
Seriously, stop being dishonest.
 
Linus in his Proton video:
 
ouch.
 
Linus's video on Proton/Linux gaming was fair and representative. I'd even argue he went above and beyond what he should have given the Linux community's lies that Linux Just Works(TM).