drumn_bass

@Zando_ Wow. Thanks for the quick reply. So I guess I might have been pretty close with my assumption. Do you have any idea why a BIOS update causes it to start experiencing these bandwidth limitations? The one from September 2022 was introducing 13 gen support, so I think it might be a clue right there. Did they change how it handles PCIe lanes for newer gen CPUs? Maybe allocating more to it, thus creating a bottleneck in M.2 slots. If this makes sense, I feel like I'm probably sounding really dumb right here. The whole PCIe thing... I admit I never fully grasped it. Also, you mentioned USB, One of my USB hubs started randomly getting kicked out, like it would say USB not recognized, until I unplug it and plug back it. It's starting to paint a picture. Bonus question, if I may. Will using something like the ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIe 3.0 X4 Expansion Card to host Gen3 drives help? Instead of having them in the motherboard's M.2 slots?

A little over a year ago, I had this thread going, where I was trying to find a solution to a very weird issue: My ASUS Z690 mobo hates Gen 4 NVMe drives:/ - CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory - Linus Tech Tips I was all over the place in that thread, but finally found a solution, which was to replace my mother board, and keep it on the last known good BIOS version and never update it. The brought this up because I recently upgraded from 12700K to 14700K, and in order to do so, I had to get a newer version of BIOS with 14th gen support. And you guessed it. The problem is back. On a whole new motherboard (same model, but a new unit). Specs: ASUS TUF Gaming Z690 D4, 64GB DDR 4 RAM 3200MHz, 14700K, 4090FE, 850W Corsair PSU... Four NVMe drives: 1TB WD SN850x Gen4, 1TB WD SN750 Gen3, 1TB WD SN750 Gen3, 500GB Samsung 980 (non-Pro, DRAMless). I've used my computer with these 4 drives, 12700K and first a 3070 and for the last 5 months a 4090FE, with no issues. It was on BIOS from August 2022, and everything worked perfectly fine. A couple of weeks ago, I decided to get a 14700K to better match my recently purchased 4090FE. To do so, I had to update BIOS. Since then, I started experiencing the same issue I had over a year ago, which I was only able to resolve by replacing my motherboard at that time. The problem: When transferring a large amount of data between SSDs, or installing a game, one of the drives involved in the process can randomly become unresponsive. It simply suspends all activity, transfer fails, and while the drive still shows in the Explorer, I can't copy or delete any data on it. WD dashboard doesn't see it anymore either. The only way to "restart" it is to reboot the system, and even then, it doesn't always start working on the first try, sometimes I reboot and the drive no longer shows in the Explorer, but re-appears after a second reboot. If this happens to the system drive (SN850 Gen4), it means an instant BSOD, eventually system files corruption and no more boot, but thankfully, this time I haven't had any of those, and only experienced the issue with the other 3 drives. So it can happen to any one of the other 3 drives in my system. It's not a drive issue. To save time, I'd just say the only hardware that I can suspect in causing this is my motherboard. If you want more details, feel free to check out my previous thread. Kicker: Removing some of the M.2 NVMe drives from the system appears to reduce the frequency of the issue, or eliminates all together. If I remove one of the 2 WD SN750 Gen3 drives, and keep the other 2 drives plus the system drive (Gen4), it appears to work fine. If I remove the Samsung DRAMless drive, then one of the 2 750s will randomly stop responding during large file transfers, it can be easily replicated. So with a 850, 750 and 980 it works fine, but If I transfer data from a 750 tp 980, and at the same time transfer data from my Gen4 SN850 to a network drive (which is a slow transfer), one of the those Gen3s will stop working again. It can happen to either drive, the one data is being copied from, or the one it's being copied to. It never happened to both drives simultaneously. Guess: My best guess is that it has something to do with overwhelming my PCIe lanes, or lack of bandwidth. Maybe the Chipset? I have the latest drivers and Intel ME driver. It's not the 4090, as I had the same issue with the 3070. It's not the 14700K, as I had the same issue with 12700K. It's possible that it's a combination of 4090 and 14700K, plus 4 NVMEs, but again, I and the same problem when I used a 12700K with 3070. I also had the same issue with Samsung 980 Pro and 990 Pro drives, in fact with 990 Pro as a system drive it was the worst, almost instant BSOD without even transferring anything, just seconds after booting into Windows 11. Feels like the faster the drives are, the more likely it is to trigger whatever is causing these drive shutdowns. And it wasn't happening on any BIOS before September 2022. Seems like any BIOS after that one brings the issue right back. It could be a simple BIOS setting, but I was not able to figure it out, yet. Question: What the hell can be causing this? I've reinstalled my Windows several times, I played with any and all driver combinations. I'm out of ideas. I recall seeing other people mentioning seeing the same thing with Gigabyte Z690 boards. Again, is it a chipset issue? No other posts on the internet with similar claims got any replies. For example, this looks like it might be the same issue, and it was posted around the same time I was asking about it at the end of 2022: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?131587-z690-Nvme-gen-4-crashes-system-old-gen-3-works. It never got any replies. Right now, my system works fine with 3 drives. SN850x, SN750 and Samsung 980. I have to keep it with this combination, and I have to remember to only do one data transfer at the time. If I try with 3 Western Digital drives, it will not be stable. I'm actually able to use more faster drives now that I did the last time I was dealing with this, and this is with much faster CPU and GPU (which may actually be the reason why). The key is to find the perfect balance of drives that will not all be too fast all together, as dumb as it sounds, I know. And it's just too effin' weird. Help me out here, guys. P.S. Some people say you can't use all 4 M.2 slots at the same time. I am skeptical of this. I did use 4 NVMe drives for over a year, just fine, but a BIOS update reintroduced the issue. It's got to be something else.

@Echothedolpin That does make sense, but on the other hand, if instead of doing that, I just buy a top tier card now and let's say 6 years later, wouldn't it still likely be at least around the same level as a second tier card from a couple of years ago at that point? I hope it makes sense. Just to make sure I understand, when you say a second tier, do you means something like 3080? So when the 50 gen launches, I can get a 4080? 60 gen a 5080, or even 5070/70Ti, and finally say 6070Ti when the 70 gen cards launch, assuming a new generation every 2 years. Let's say it cost $500 to upgrade in this fashion, in 6 years I'll be looking at $2000, minus say I resell my previous cards for $300 a pop, $1100. Or I buy a 4090 now for $1440, it's technically a bit more, but I get to enjoy the top tier power for the whole 6 years, can still sell it at that time, let's say for $400-$500, so actually around the same overall, if not even a bit cheaper, plus less hustle with buying/selling used cards. I have a feeling, and there are some rumors, that Nvidia might be going away with the whole new generation refresh every couple of years, which might make things even more complicated, plus I just saw some reports of 4090s actually going up in price in Europe... IDK man, just the uncertainty of how these things will develop, plus the inflation/world state and stuff like that, I kind of feel like who knows, this might be the last chance to grab something really good, before it all goes to sh...

@ewitte Sorry, I assume you mean the 4080 is not worth it, right? I think they both make sense in their own way, to be honest, but with 4090, it definitely looks like we just don't have the games yet to take a full advantage of all of its power.

Ok guys, thank you all for your input. Just to close the loop on this, and in case anyone else finds it looking for the same info, here is what I did. I posted at first that I was keeping the 4080, and it would have been fine, but I have a confession to make. I'm an idiot and have that money burning a hole in my pocket, so changing my mind for the 50th time, I saw the 4090 available for order at Best Buy with a 10% coupon and a free game again, so I ordered it. All the reason be damned... I want it. Conclusion: 1. A smart thing to do would be to keep the 4080. 2. Nothing wrong with being a bit less smart if you have a few extra bucks and get a 4090. Either one would make most gamers very happy. Another part of this decision was a release of new Intel CPUs, and seeing how much power they demand, and how little of the actual real life gaming improvement they offer, I feel better about using a 12700K. If I needed a new CPU from the latest refresh, my 850W PSU would definitely have to be upgraded, but with 12700K and its 125W TPD, I don't think I'll have any issues for a while. When the time comes when I feel I need more, I will probably just build a new Ryzen X3D system.

Well, that's a great point. I can technically still live with the 3070, so I suspect whatever I get, I probably won't be using it for 5-7 years anyway. Thanks for your input!

No I get it, I said it myself: "...as we all know, trying to future-proof in PC world is a pointless endeavor...". So, would you say there no point to go with 4090 hoping it will meaningfully outlast the 4080 in performance? I know my post is a wall of text, and I'm sorry about that.

Hey guys, I know the 4080 vs 4090 question has been asked a thousand times, but I want to run my scenario by you all and see what you think. Here is the deal, completely honest. I don't even "need" either one of these GPUs, but a bit of a background... a few months ago, I upgraded my 3070 to 4070Ti, and was happy with it, but shortly after, I found out that I will be losing my job within 2 months (lay-offs), and had to do a responsible thing, and return the 4070Ti with a plan to upgrade after I get my employment situation resolved. Now I have. Got a new job, and still got a decent chunk of severance money left, so I decided to not only go ahead and get that new GPU I wanted, but also sort of reward or spoil myself and go ahead and get something a bit nicer, like a 4080 or 4090. (not considering Radeon. Tried them. Didn't like them. No offense to anyone, just not for me).= I can technically afford either one. I'm not rich or anything, but $400 price difference is not a concern. There are a couple of things I keep getting stuck on, however. I actually already picked up a 4080 FE, and it's great. I game at 1440p, so performance is awesome, it stays cool and quiet. There is a bit of coil whine, but I only hear it if right next to the case. No complaints at all. Love it. But I keep thinking that, heck, why not just go for 4090 FE at this point? Might as well, no? So the more I think about it, the more I can't decide what I want to do. With everything in consideration, I figured that for me the most important points at this time are: 1. How long should either card last? I know that right now both are an overkill, with 4080 technically making a bit more sense for 1440p, however, with that extra power of the 4090, and 8GB more VRAM, I keep wondering just how much longer it can remain a good performer over the years compared to 4080. For example, if the 4080 is expected to be relevant around 5 years, and 4090 around 7 (before new games become too demanding for them), that's around 40% (of extra time with a card), which is basically in line with that 35% more money for the 4090 anyway, and around 30% more performance, so that makes no difference. But if we're talking 5 years with 4080, vs 10 years with 4090, their price difference starts making a lot more sense (I suspect it will not be the case). 2. Power consumption. I see that under load, both cards stay at around the same temps, within 2-3 degrees. The PDT however is around 100W higher on the 4090. Trying to convert it into electricity cost savings is pointless for me, the amount I spend on gaming makes it like $6 more per year to run a 4090. Who cares? What I am thinking about is my PSU, which is a 850W Corsair, and it is technically enough, but cutting it close with the 4090. Also, the issue with some melted power cables/connectors. I know it's not as widespread as some people may want to make it sound, and also both 4080 and 4090 are supposed to have an updated power connector design, but I keep hearing of some new cases of this happening even today, and while it mostly affects 4090s, there were some 4080s having this issue as well, just not nearly as often. It seems, so that extra 100W may be the differentiating factor there. Those are basically the 2 main things. The rest of my system is: 12700K, 64GB DDR4 3600, M.2 gen 4 SSDs. I know both cards can take advantage of a more powerful system, but the idea is when it's time to build a new one, the same card should still be good for it. There are a couple of small things, like the 4090 comes with a free copy of Alan Wake 2 right now, not a dealbreaker or maker, I don't need it, but a free game is a free game:) On the other hand, for that $400, well, there are a lot of other nice things I can buy. I'm leaning towards keeping the 4080, but that "I can have the best", at least for now, feeling is eating me up. How can I shake it off? There are also rumors of possible Ti models coming out soon, but I don't want to wait. Waited long enough, plus both cards have a 10% off coupon at Best Buy, which may or may not work on those new cards, assuming there is enough stock. My price is actually $1080 for 4080 and $1440 for 4090. What would you do? It's really looking like the 4090 is ~35% more money for ~35% more card, so there is really no real advantage, in my case, it all comes down to future proofing, and as we all know, trying to future-proof in PC world is a pointless endeavor, right? Plus the power related considerations, will it be a waste to go with 4090? (BTW, I have no one I can brag about having the best card on the market to, my wife won't be impressed, so there is that:)

@MisterBeast2169 You're welcome, my friend

@Paul17 I use Crucial Ballistix Ram. Nothing fancy, but reliable. Since we both use Asus products, what's going on with them? Why are big YouTubers are talking about dropping them as sponsors and stuff like that? Like Jays2cents and Gamers Nexus. I didn't have time to dig into that. Sounds like it has something to do with bad BIOS updates, which I'm kind of familiar with, and I swore I'm not touching BIOS on this TUF z690 board unless I absolutely have to. Still on August 2022 BIOS.

@Paul17 I like this 4070Ti TUF I got here. It matches my TUF Gaming motherboard (which is OK, I guess, I had my fair share of issues with it too, had to replace it once, I have a thread on that here somewhere). There is a bit of coil whine under full load, but it's actually quieter than the XFX MERC 310 RX 7900 XT, and much quieter than the MERC 6950 XT I tried before it. I returned them both. 20 gigs of VRAM and performance closer to 4080 than 4070Ti looked good on paper and in benchmarks, but in 2 weeks or so, I've experienced several driver and hardware related issues with both AMD cards. Computer was sometimes failing to go into sleep, and I had to manually shut it down by holding the power button, others are seeing it too, and it's still unresolved. Removing Adrenalin and using a driver only may be a workaround, but not confirmed. I've experienced a memory leak issue with Davinci Resolve, causing it to crash after about a minute of use. This issue went away with a beta version of DR, 18.5. In general, Resolve was laggy while editing, frequent playback freezes, but exports were great, very quick. Forza Motorsport 7, which should be easy to run, had a stutter once every second. I fixed it by disabling ULPS, but later tried again after a clean W11 install with no Adrenaline, and it worked better, but still had a stutter here and there. Other games had crazy stutter too, even when they displayed high FPS, it was just very noticeably not smooth. Might be a Freesync issue, I don't know, I gave up and exchanged it for 4070Ti. 7900 XT uses about 10 times (!) more power on idle, with 2 monitors, one being a high refresh 1440p, and the second a standard 60 1080, it was drawing 85W, on idle! While 4070Ti draws 8-9W. I had several game freezes and crashes. It made my computer boot slower, by about 12-15 seconds. And I'm sure there is more, it's just what I ran into, so idk if I can recommend the 7900 XT to anyone. People often talk about AMDs terrible drivers, and I thought by now, they would surely have it figured out, but it was definitely not my experience. I figured I'll just go with 4070Ti for now. I don't have any issues with it so far. Not a fan of only 12GB of VRAM, but I will probably swap it with something better in a couple of years and pass it down to my kid (who just got my older 3070 upgrade from 1070). Lots of people say Nvidia got too greedy, and I get it, 4080 is too expensive, 4070s have only 12GB of VRAM, so people look at AMD as the better option, and on paper they look like it, but in real life, for me at least, it was nothing but a pain in you know what... Just thought you should know if you're considering it.

@Paul17 You were right, it seems. Thank you! Don't ask me how I know, but yeah, it is in fact available in the Studio version. So odd... open source codec and all. Oh well. At least I know now. Does AV1 even worth it? I see some people say since it's in the MP4 container, the sound quality can be bad, especially when uploaded and re-converted by YouTube. Smaller file size is nice, but it is basically the only advantage over H.264?

@Paul17 I did try posting on BMD forums, about 8-9 hours ago, it said my post needed to be approved by moderators first, and it's still not there. Their forum is kind of weird to be honest, they insist on using real names, and apparently the content is curated, so they may or may not allow it, and if they do, god knows when. I'll be surprised if it does in fact require a paid version of software, because it's available in the free one with an AMD gpu. I tested it again, replaced the 4070Ti with the 7900XT, and the AV1 option appeared under MP4. Back to Nvidia... it's gone. (But, I guess it may be possible that it's enabled in the beta for AMD for testing purposes, and once it moves into a stable version, it will become a paid version feature. There is no trial, the free DR is the trial, so idk, may be a way to test, but I probably can't talk about it here, you know what I mean?) I also posted on Nvidia forums 8 hours ago. Silence. It was a clean Windows 11 installation last night when I first tried it, there should be no driver conflicts, it's just not there, while both BM and Nvidia say it's supported.

Thanks guys. Well, it was definitely included when I used an AMD card, in the free version, but IDK, maybe some special treatment for AMD vs Nvidia. And yes, I tried both the latest stable release of DR, and the latest beta. The AV1 support for AMD was added in the beta. Nvidia was supposedly supported for a few months, and Intel Arc for about a year, from what I can see. At the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal, just something I assumed would be there, and it's not:( You can't be too picky about the free software, that is already so powerful, it's hard to believe they're giving it away.

Hi everyone, I searched and read some conversations on this topic from a few months ago, but with no definitive answer. It was my understanding that Davinci Resolve 18 Free (18.5b2 right now) will support AV1(one) encoding with Nvidia 40 series cards. There are YouTube videos showing it working, in the mp4 container, with 4080s, and 4090s. I just got a new 4070Ti yesterday, and was excited to try it out, but the option is not there. I tried the latest stable release of DR, and the beta, as well as the latest Nvidia drivers, and it's still not available. I had a Radeon RX 7900 XT before, and the AV1 export was available and working for me with the DR 18.5 beta, and it was pretty impressive, but Resolve itself had a lot of lag and severe stutter with that card for me. Does anyone know if it's supposed to be supported? And if it's not in there, is there anything I can do to add it? I keep seeing some conflicting answers, mostly guesses. Like the AV1 is only available in the Studio version vs free, but others say it's listed in the features of the free version, and I definitely had it with an AMD card. Or that Nvidia only supports AV1 decoding, not encoding, but this also doesn't seem right, as there are videos of people outputting AV1 media with Nvidia cards. My only other suspicion is that it works with 4080 and 4090 level cards, but not cheaper ones, but Nvidia states that lower level cards have all the same encoding/decoding features. They specifically pointed it out with the 4070 release? I use a free version of Resolve Asus Tuf Z690 D4 motherboard Core i7 12700K 64GB of DDR4 RAM 3200 MHz Nvidia RTX 4070Ti (Asus Tuf OC) Gen4 NVMe SSD WD sn850x 850W Corsair PSU RM850x