AngryBeaver

13 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

I'm skeptical about this. A 2°C drop isn't very conclusive. Even if it's true what are you going to do with that 2°C? Not a whole heck of a lot.

 

While technically the first rad after the heat producing components is going to be hotter than subsequent rads a high enough flow of liquid is going to spread that heat across them fairly evenly after everything hits equilibrium.

 

I would propose an additional test. What pump are you using? A Laning D5 such as the MCP655 has a very high flow rate with high head pressure. If you adjust the flow rate from low to high in the before mentioned "not advised" configuration this may increase the cooling performance and negate the worth of re-plumbing a loop.

I actually am using a single d5 atm and it is running at 90%. So not much if any gains to be had from flow. I think the biggest gains are the fact the exhaust rad is dumping heat before it hist the intake which is really helping keep internal temps down and thus making the other rad more effective. 

So my loop order right now is Res/pump > Exhaust rad (xr7 360) > Intake rad (xr7 480) > Cpu > GPU.    All I did was just flip 2 hoses to make the top exhaust rad first.

Now on to equilibrium in theory with enough flow you are right, but we still know that a rad with colder air can reduce the temp lower than one with hot air. So if you hit the hot rad after the cooler one you pose the risk of adding heat back or reducing the thermal transfer. 

Anyways I am curious to see what other people have found. I am pretty confident in what I have seen, but always open to further results.

So while I know that traditionally loop order doesn't matter... I have found that this isn't as true as it once was. Let me explain a scenario.

With the new GDDR6x cards there is a LOT of heat being pumped into both the loop and into the case via the backplate (silly hot vram). If you are like me and run multiple rads (exhaust and intake) then this next statement is very important to you.

When you setup your loop going forward make sure you are always having water flow to the exhaust radiators FIRST before flowing to the ones as intake. Other components don't matter at all, but the order of radiators DOES make for a big difference. Let me explain. Let's assume we are talking a simple 2 rad loop with one exhuast and one intake. If you flow to the intake radiator first 2 things happen. First you get access to nice cool ambient air from outside the case, but having an exhaust radiator after it just adds heat back into the loop since it is getting warmer case air. Second, you are letting the brunt of the heat get dumped into the case.

Now if you were to hit the exhaust rad first. The brunt of the heat being dumped could be outside of the case. Then when it flows to the second radiator which is getting cooler ambient air it can then see a further reduction in temp. So in the end you are killing 2 birds with one stone. You are reducing the internal temp of your case, while also making sure that the maximum amount of heat is being removed from your loop.

For me the gains were fairly noticeable with a 2c deltaT drop. I am also using a case that has good airflow (Enthoo 719) so I was actually shocked to see the effect this had. 

Anyways I haven't been very active on these forums lately, but figured I would drop this message here in hopes it might help someone else.

On 2/24/2021 at 3:55 PM, itslit said:

Is it safe? Also, like in amazon, does the price include tax and shipping? Delivery will come to Turkey. Does it have a guarantee?

 

 

 

https://www.newegg.com/global/tr-en/white-phanteks-eclipse-p400a-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811854087?item=N82E16811854087&nm_mc=knc-googletradwords-global&cm_mmc=knc-googletradwords-global-_-cases (computer cases - atx form)-_-phanteks company-_-11854087&source=region

 

It's more cheap than our local seller.

 

https://www.qp.com.tr/phanteks-eclipse-p400a-rgb-temperli-cam-mid-tower-atx-bilgisayar-kasasi

 

I will buy from local dealer if there is no international guarantee.

Maybe I am just a little salty, but I think newegg is crao and should be avoided.

 I have ordered 3 things from them (and/or their 3rd party seller system) in the past month and had problems with each one of them.

2 were the 3rd party marked items as shipped and took payment yet didn't expect the inventory for 2 more weeks (which was never communicated) newegg doesn't get involved despite their policy saying you are charged when item ships. Then to avoid the rules further the sellers just mark it as an RMA that they claim to instantly receive to issue a refund in 5-7 days. Mind you this happened on two items with 2 separate sellers.

The one I item that newegg did send got magically lost in the mail and when I called to inform them they accused me of lying. Despite the fact the shipping company clearly acknowledged it was currently unable to locate the package.

Anyways this was the first month I tried using them again and it will also be the last.

4 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

Did +10% power limit, +75 to the core, +200 to the memory. Seems that resulted in around 1900-1950ish core and 9700 memory frequency...my Superposition went up a few points.......idk about framerate in games, LOL.

 

Thermals are pretty okay so far. CPU got a bit hotter while gaming (77 max) but nothing to sweat. Motherboard VRM under 60. GPU core didn't go past 70, memory was a bit hotter at around 85. Noise - didn't really hear much of a difference either way.

 

 

My poor x trio and even ventus 3x all stay at 100% power limit with some undervolting and I see low 2000 in clocks and both can do over 1000 on vram (without errors and ecc causing fps loss)

Honestly the power limit on these can help, but apparently doesn't offer much for gains.

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

I think this review is mostly based on overclocking potential... and yeah vrm etc seems really bad - on the other hand it has at least 3 fans I guess. 

 

Also seems to vary with models, I seem to recall the 3070 trio was also really bad... the only msi worthy of the heritage was the "suprim". 

The OC potential on these cards has seen ti be pretty limited anyways. Sure you can get a little more with custom water and a huge power increase, but people have seen good results undervolting these cards too.

I mean if we are talking benchmark flexing sure there is a real advantage of the high end cards Supreme, ftw, etc, but none of these cards are more than a few percent of each other.

On 1/1/2021 at 11:57 AM, Mark Kaine said:

Sure. 

 

It's a bad, hot running card with bad Vrm cooling and should be avoided at all costs. 

 

1/10

 

 

Here's an interesting review you should check out about MSI practices, especially on 3000 series. 

 

Ventus has always been their worst line, there's no reason to believe that would ever change. 

 

 

 

 

 

I was running a 3080 ventus 3x before I got the x trio 3080 (huge waste lol) it was on air and honestly all the temps were fine. It would boost into low 2000s and the fans on it inside a glass case could be audible at times, but only barely. 

I landed a waterblock for it and the x trio from byskyi and honestly they are identical. The xtrio apparently doesn't take advantage of having more power limit (which is sad)

So if the 3060ti variant is anything like the 3080 it should be fine. The difference between all but the highest end cards are so close in terms of performance that you would never notice a difference. The high end cards just have massive power limits and better coolers which give them  slight edge.

So I am going to chime in here. I have been mining when not using my gaming rig and it is something like a 2750% profit margin when looking at energy cost.

Now that I have shown the wife the fact it is very profitable and relatively easy... I am going to invest between 8-10k on a mining setup. Which with current eth value my payback period would be sub 3 months at which h point it becomes all profit. 10k investment will land me enough to turn a little over 4k in profit monthly (after power costs)

The hardest part is getting the gpus since I am limited to 1 per 30 days here, but with myself, wife, and a teenager I can score 3 per 30 days possibly more depending on friend family availability on drop days.

My new ultimate goal is going to be aim for 5-6k of passive income after other costs (including taxes) as my wife isn't working I will probably let her claim it and all the tax write offs you can also claim as a business expense.

I think with how things are playing out it is a good idea and a pretty straight forward investment with minimal risks. There is always the risk of the bubble bursting, but as we have seen several times it recovers and comes back stronger.

On 2/7/2021 at 6:00 PM, bloodsnapper said:

Hey, I have problems with joining Ark Servers it takes me back to the menu screen right after joining the IP. I have updated my bios and grapichscard does anyone have a fix or solution for me I am clueless sometimes it feels some games keeps me for not playing it when I have good specs for playing it.

If you have the game on a hdd then it can take a long time to load. Try giving it 5 minutes or so.

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

Yep. As far as Ryzen is concerned, memory settings still matter more than core frequency especially since the cores don't overclock that much.

It isn't that they don't even overclock much. The problem is they are more reliant on undervolting and pbo. 

I mean when I can have 4/12 cores hit in the 5.2ghz range that is nuts with the IPC on these chips.

Honestly, PBO as it stands is great. It is very effective at using the capacity of a user's hardware. Means that with a single setting any user can see some gains. I mean sure you can tweak it to get a little more out of it, but that is only really noticeable in benchmarks anyways.

Best way to overclock is tweaking pbo. I would first undervolt as far as possible with the curve optimizer. From there I would try raising the max pbo boost value to 200-250 ish.

Now if you want to get more advanced to that you can tweak the above and run a lower curve offset like -5 in your first and second best cores.

This allows your all core and single core speeds to perform much better.

My 5900x can see core boosts up to and sometimes slightly over 5.2.ghz on my best 4 cores ( 1st and 2nd on two ccxs) and the rest of my cores all break 5ghz from time to time. Now where things get interesting is my all core which will run at 4.8ghz. The problem I have is after about 5 minutes that drops down to high 4.6 - low 4.7ghz despite good temps. So it is more than likely a time threshold on pbo I haven't found yet.

Anyways my point is these overclock much differently than previous chips have.

@OP are you using a riser cable?

Most microcentera do not release stock from trucks on Tuesday. Tuesday they open an hour early and try to keep that day less crowded as it is setup for people who are at a high risk for covid.

3 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Personally feel my 3080 will last longer than I'm willing to accept it's performance level.

 

Currently can play most games at 4k with relative ease, but I play at 1440p max.

 

I am almost certain this GPU will be able to play games at 1080p/60 with any number of resolution settings changes for at least 5 years.

 

But at a certain point, I won't be willing to play at 1080p/60 and then I'll upgrade to something else. It's likely that time will come sooner than later, that way I can upgrade another PC in my home with the 3080 as well while it still has useful life.

Seeing I gave an old 780ti to a nephew and he can still play without issues at high settings now...  I mean sure 3gb of vram isn't much these days but at 1080p it isn't an issue. All goes to show you will probably be fine.

Also worth noting the 780ti is like 8 years old now. So for more apples to apples look at the 1080 it is right at 5 years old and doesn't struggle at 1080p at all

8 hours ago, MobileGeek said:

I want to do a top mount of the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 in my Thermaltake View 71 case, but I want to do it in a Push Pull configuration. Has anyone tried this? It seems like there is enough room, but I thought I would see if anyone has already had experience with this.

 

My desire is to purchase the cooler and replace the stock fans with  Noctual NF-F12 Industrial PPC 3000RPN fans, and adding 3 more to get the push/pull setup. I am looking to push the overclock on my Core i9 9900k, which is currently running just fine with a Notcua NH-D15 at 5GHz, as high as I can go (yea I am that bored). 

 

Thanks for any suggestions

Looking at the rad it is atleast a decent thickness with a high fair (good for high airflow), but as it is still sub 40mm push pull 3000 rpm fans aren't really worth it.

Now if you were going for low noise, lower rpm usage then there is a real benefit to push pull, but if you plan on running high rpm fans then the returns are going to be greatly reduced or even not present at 2k+ on a rad with that thickness.

4 hours ago, Moonzy said:

From what I've seen around the tech news thread and this thread, water-cooled 3080 have VRAM temps below 70, but I'm not too sure how accurate that is, maybe someone will have to dig deeper into this rabbit hole

 

3090 have VRAM on the backside, so that's a whole other story to cover -sigh-

My mining temps with 1002mhz on memory can hit 88c from timd to time. I double checked and my memory all has thermal pads making contact with the block. The back plate gets hot as F, so I know it is doing it's job.

The only thing I can think of would be to water cool the back too, but so far all of those options us tiny tubes to connect it and seem to be a disaster to make look clean.

12 minutes ago, Nick R said:

Appreciate the welcome! Bios is not beta, from MSI bios site, Jan 26th version. 

 

Sadly my buddy is in another state, he's been video calling me about it. 

All of the bios on that page are alpha bios 7C91vA5  = Alpha 5

This is for example another motherboard. The v## are official bios the ones with a letter then number are generally alpha/beta drivers (unless something has recently changed)

Also I would go with the A4 bios and see what happens.

 

I agree with everyone here. The amount of time he has taken doesn't align with the job. He has prioritized other more profitable work over you it sounds like and you will need to let him know you have run out of patience and either need all of your parts back or the finished product.

3 minutes ago, Carson Tate said:

ive tried multiple cables, cat5e and cat6, both around 10 feet

 

Try a different port on router.

Try resetting the router to default settings.

Try making a bootable linux usb drive and see what speeds you get on it

Update bios

check bios settings

If all else fails consider it could be the ethernet port on your mobo and try a pci-e / usb one.

Just a few more things to test or look in to

4 minutes ago, Carson Tate said:

i have updated the drivers, the msi b350m bazooka that i have says it is capable of 1000mbps

This is with a new cable correct? Is there anything between the computer and the router/modem like a switch? What is the length of said cable?

51 minutes ago, Carson Tate said:

i tested another cable and its still capped at 100mbps, i have this screenshot of it at 100mbps, the odd thing is that the motherboard stated that it supports up to 1000mbps 

Unless the motherboard is pretty old I would suspect it has gigabit as well. Have you tried updating your lan drivers? 

2 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

That would mean a lot more if I were not comparing people wanting one single card VS people buying up multiple cards to make money off of them. 

While this is still possible from certain places most of the big names have took measures to prevent this or at least make it much harder to do.

3 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

MSRP on every product exists for a reason, and just because people are reducing available supply by over-buying doesn't mean that's OK. These are consumer products, they shouldn't be rare or difficult to buy.

Even if we didn't have covid, miners, etc... there would STILL be supply issues. There has pretty much always been supply issues with new product launches for months and months after they become available. Look at the 5xxx series cpus. They are in short supply and aren't even effected by the mining craze.

It comes down to this.

You pay the scalper costs
You spend the time to secure a card

You wait until availability is up

You keep using what you have.

All of them have their pro's and con's. All of them are viable choices. So it comes down to how important and how much investment the cards are worth to you.

33 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Why would I pay way over retail for a scalper card? I’m not trying to make money on them I’m just trying to upgrade my card from 2016. Your mindset makes no sense to those of us just trying to play games.

Noone is saying you have to. The miners are actually buying scalper cards because they are still profitable.

The thing is that no one group deserves the cards over another. It doesn't matter what you intend to do with the card. It comes down to wanting a card, availability, and effort you are willing to put in. If you want a card, but put in minimal effort then you are not going to get the card unless availability is also high. It is a scale and you need to compensate in areas you control when the other areas are low.

18 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

It is true and you won’t convince me otherwise. I’ve been trying for months to get an RTX card and continually seeing all these setups of crypto miners pulling every card they can out of retailer’s inventory. I have gone through checkout online four times and been screwed-over each time, maybe the back order I have right now will get me a card in the next six months.
 

I want one single card, not a dozen of them, where’s my right to own one? Oh that’s right, I don’t get preferential treatment like miners do because I’m just buying one.

You are making a lot of assumptions. Do you really think they get any preferential treatment? They truth is they don't... it is just some retailers don't care who buys the card and in what quantities. So they aren't getting any preferred treatment in that scenario the retailer is just neutral and only cares if the card is sold vs unsold.

The funny thing is I have been able to get people cards even in the last few weeks. I have reserved a spot in line, which I know how to do from home, at microcenter. I watch to see if the truck had cards (normally announced 30-45 min before opening) then if there were cards I forward the text to a friend/family member who then gets in at opening to get a card. This is assuming they didn't just reserve the slot themselves since it isn't hard.

There is also bestbuy here who also has drops at the store. Which again can be followed so you know when to be there and get in line. Then you have newegg who is doing a random lottery so as long as you go on there and get in the lottery within 4-6 hrs of them posting the stock you have the same chance as anyone else to get one. I am not relying on anything questionable like bots. I am just paying attention to the ways available to get a card and as I said I have been successful. Does it require a little more investment than usual... sure, but if you are really wanting the card then that is a small price to pay.

13 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Except we cannot buy graphics cards to do anything with, they’re not available. What’s the main reason for that? Crypto miners.

That isn't true either. People are getting cards all the time. You just have to be vigilant if you want one. I will be going back to microcenter in about 10 days to get another 3080 (30 day cooldown on buying them) Meaning that in that 30 day cooldown window if I was mining I could have paid for about half of my next card. I might try the newegg lottery system too to see if I can get some from multiple sources.

People always want to blame the miners, but honestly it comes down to supply/demand and the ways retailer are protecting customers from people buying cards up in bulk. Hard for miners to clear out inventory when retailers have a good system in place to prevent it. The people mining with these cards have just as much right to own one as anyone else.