mvnb

First of all, the whole Billet Labs stuff is completely absurd if true. I don't think they would intentionally sell something they couldn't, probably some massive fuck up in communications happened between the team responsible for sending it back and the people choosing the items to be auctioned, but it's still a huge issue and 100% LTT's responsibility to fix it and make sure something like this never ever happens again. 
 
About the rushed content, it's something that a lot of times crosses the border of "fun jank" to being just frustrating. Every single project they do seems to be rushed, unfinished, untested and plagued with issues and oversights. And that could be their content "brand", seems like many people enjoy the jank. But if they now want to present themselves as serious testers, someone the community can look up for reliable data with Labs, that mindset needs to change, FAST. How the hell can I trust someone who has to correct themselves almost every video? And makes errors that a basic review of the content could catch? 
 
You need to pump out 7 videos a week? Sure buddy, but maybe allow more time sensitive projects to be properly planned, executed and reviewed and throw some "here's 10 fun crap we found on aliexpress" videos to make up for it.

We're not here to jump on LMG, we're here to help you make better content regardless of how it may seem, We wouldn't be here if its not something we cared about, on wan show this weekend you mentioned wanting to make some sort of fact checking squad, weather that is internal or external it is something that I think is good start. - A passionate LTT fan.

You're putting out content that some people are going to use for large purchases. If your reviews are inaccurate, then they have much less value.
 
You need to be thorough and accurate, especially in benchmarks.
 
When errors are found, there needs to be an injection of voiceover during post.
 
All that energy, and money, you're pumping into the labs project is going to be for naught if your accuracy isn't there.
 
Start slowing down on the content, and do more checking. Steve raised a lot of valid points, I think you should look internally at processes to improve everything.

Omg you've missed the whole point....

If you've watched Steve's video and can honestly, with straight face, and pure 100% faith in LMG, reply to the thread that Steve is out of hand for making the video, you're delusional and need to seek help. Not only that but you've proven what he's saying in the whole video.
 

 
 

100%. So many ppl here defend those mistakes by arguing 'LTT is only for entertainmet', but LTT themself advertise their lab data and their superior quality all the time. In every test the lab is mentioned and the large number of automated benchmarks and so on. In reality the quality is decreasing.

Just came over to see what the response on the forum would be (purely out of curiosity), and am somewhat disappointed in the handling (I don't frequent the forum enough to know if this is the norm).
 
First: why is it that an editorialized version of the title of the video used as the "main discussion post", instead of the topic that was properly title-ized (and the properly title-ized post was closed because this one is first? This feels oddly similar of the complaint of the timeliness of the videos vs accuracy, funny enough). While we all laugh and point at Reddit for its various failings... if there's one thing that most news-oriented subreddits try to do correctly, it's forcing correct title-ing to prevent misrepresentation. While it may seem like this topic's title it has a similar meaning, I can tell you that no such exacting wording was used and is far more inflammatory. In fact, that egregious AF title is what led to me actually bothering to write this up.
 
Second, some people seem to think that the "pointing out of [insert person here] being a former big brand representative" or "working with [insert brand name]" is some sort of shade throwing? While that is an (unlikely, IMO) possibility, I think it's more illustrating that it's possible to die a death by a thousand ("kinda sorta maybe" suspicious) cuts. From the point of view of a LAYPERSON (this is important, not a regular watcher's point of view), you can start deconstructing all these small, potentially harmless or even good, "odd" decisions easily and create a "death by a thousand cuts" situation for LMG; ie if you start questioning this one big thing LMG did wrong, you could easily spiral down a rabbit hole questioning every little thing. You don't want to give ammunition to your shooter if they're trying to deconstruct you. You don't want to someone picking out, what they consider to be, one bad thread out of your shirt, to eventually unravel the whole shirt when there was nothing (or just a very small thing) wrong with the shirt.
 
Third, some people are thinking that "LMG is being purposefully inaccurate to line their own pockets". I'm looking at one of you in particular. Listen to me: If you post a video where you know something is incorrect, that is unfortunately the truth. The real benchmark is the degree. Small error that is fixed in text, or is used for entertainment purposes and explaining "we're definitely doing this wrong but this is for fun" like has been done many times before? No biggie (FOR ME, not everyone). Using a product the known wrong way, not reaching out, and then saying the product is bad? That's pretty egregious.
 
Fourth, calling out GN for being a competitor to LMG and therefore their message is somehow lessened (even going so far as to call it a conflict of interest). Let me explain with an example how that's just not right. Tradespeople (plumbers, electricians, etc) will gladly point out each other's bad work. Are they financially incentivized to do so? Yes. But if they're right, what the hell does that change? Nothing. If anything, in the case that either or both pointed some failing in the other, it doesn't mean to ignore both/either; it means you have stuff to fix, unfortunately.
 
I'm sure everyone on both sides, LMG and GN, and even commenters here, MEAN WELL ENOUGH. I'm sure many will take extreme positions, but I'm going to stick to Hanlon's Razor.
 
If there's any changes I'd like to see, personally, I think its that reviews might need to get spun off into their own LTT Labs channel, so that people can take more time. And the LTT Labs channel would be given free reign to take the amount of time necessary that *even LMG employees admit they'd like to take*, where everything is triple-checked. And if there's anything I hope for, it's that Linus actually watches the video instead of just reading the comments.

This is not a casual wan show response anymore, this warrants a big main channel release about every point Steve made. Been a long time I view every single video for pure entertainment and nothing else because of lack of accuracy and lol yolo vibes with everything. That waterblock thing if true. Absolutely unacceptable. Get that block back from whoever got it and return it with public apology and reshoot of the video while removing the original 

The Billet Labs situation is unacceptable and needs to be addressed publicly. Trashing their product after knowingly using the wrong GPU then failing to return it and putting it up for auction at LTX is a super bad look for LTT. 
 
I also do largely agree with a lot of what Steve said. The number of corrections in videos the editors must make is absurd and shows that scripts are not getting fact checked. I know Linus addressed this recently. However, this has been going on for a long time and shows the culture at LTT that comes from the top is that quantity over quality is what Linus expects out of his employees and until that changes videos will continue to have numerous errors (sometimes they are caught in editing and sometimes not at all). Or there are issues like leaving the film on the mouse pads and then blaming the company for it after you told your viewers LTT does not recommend that product. 
 
For everyone saying that is just Steve being salty over LTT Labs I don't think that is correct. Steve and GN have a loyal following and people are not going to stop watching GN because Linus built a lab. When videos like CPU reviews get released after embargo I personally watch videos from multiple sources. You don't have to be on team GN or team LTT. I personally watch most videos from both channels. I have been following LTT since it was just Linus sitting at his kitchen table. Now they are worth over 100 million and have over 100 employees. Crazy to think about.
 
I don't have a problem with Linus investing in Framework or partnering with industry members in a way that financially benefits LTT so long as they disclose such in videos relating to products produced by those companies. 

I didn’t get that from Steve at all, you could see the reluctance he had in making the video ……. let’s not forget who took the swing at GN.

I was honestly expecting less of Linus in videos so other LMG talent can be in videos, especially laptop content as its bad optics with the Framework investment. I don't mind their investment, and I like Framework as a company however I'd rather see someone else review laptops that has no involvement with Framework.

This needs to be addressed, and not just in a WAN Show segment. 

I'm not running a multi-million dollar company, and I'm not responsible for hundreds of people's livelihoods, but in my opinion, it would be the best thing to do to cut down the quantity of videos in favor of quality. A mistake here and there is fine; after all, we are all just human, but some of the bigger ones just can not happen. 

Again, I don't know how it would affect their bottom line, but some changes need to happen. In the end, LMG has a responsibility to their viewers because many of us influence purchasing decisions by implicitly trusting the accuracy of reviewers. This is not to be taken lightly.

I love LMG and I hope they can learn from this.

Him sharing his unfiltered thoughts is not a quirky thing any more but rather something he needs to revisit: he is a representative and ostensibly the primary shareholder of LMG and his words carry far more weight than any one else. Same goes for the Labs Tour, while he may not be used to speaking he still is an employee in that capacity and that has real world impacts on viewers and companies alike. 


To everyone with the whataboutism to GN: 

This isn't about what GN has or has not done in the past, the goal is to shed light on increasingly concerning behavior that affects everyone at LMG, the viewers, and the companies they interface with (Billet Labs for example). We need to hold them to the standard that they presenting themselves, a tech review channel + some entertainment; if they want to just be entertainment, segment that to a different channel than the serious review work. 

Overall mostly agree with Steve, I think he left out some context at some points.  A couple examples:
My main ugh was the WAN show clip on the block results - Linus sharing his thoughts unfiltered every week is a part of the reason we trust him.  Without context it just sounds like him telling BIllet labs to jump in the lake you can't touch me.  While the end result is indeed that's what Billet Labs probably heard, I doubt that's what Linus's intention was. Also the labs tour - I still haven't gotten clear what exactly happened but it's obvious the host of the tour (Tim) isn't used to speaking and IMHO did not even intend to speak for LTT - he sounded just genuinely excited to be a part of LTT and seemed to misspeak.  (Terren's first decree, the usual corporate statement of these views are my own and aren't necessarily the opinion of LTT). In general he should have asked LTT for comment, especially on the Billet Labs, no? Labs is obviously in Alpha and should just get better, Linus has repeatedly mentioned that he knows there are growing pains as they figure out a system. But overall these don't change the end result and general vibe:
The amount of corrections needed lately and miscommunications is definitely increasing and it seems fair for GN to say enough is enough. Asterisks everywhere is annoying, but IMHO there is ZERO excuse that something like techquickie should have ANY asterisks.  It's short and its literally branded as purely educational.  There are several posts on Reddit of Professors using it. Steve really hand picked solid examples, a big kudos.  Not (IMHO) medium hanging fruit like ASUS customer service or reaching backwards to LTT store warranty. This all feels like the same category of Linus still not bothering to add proper subtitles to videos - we're too fast paced to do it properly.  While I think most of us treat LTT as entertainment, Steve is very accurate that Linus, you just can't remotely act like that anymore.  LTT needs to make accuracy (and accessibility) their main priority, full stop.
 
(@LinusTech if you read this, we are still fans and mean this as constructive criticism.  We want LTT Labs to be a smashing success and the channel to only get better.  We're sure nothing here is malicious, and hopefully your new role as not-CEO will allow for more immediate quality control.)

I'm gonna copy my YouTube comment:
 
"That's the way I feel about LMG recently. I'm a long time LTT viewer but currently I only watch it for entertainment value. I pretty much skip all of their CPU/GPU/cooler reviews. They're not reliable.
 
And that copper cooler review...man...that was outrageous. They specifically tested it with the wrong card on a premise that it might work and when it didn't they just said "Eh, it is what it is. It sucks". That's not what a journalist does. And the fact that LMG auctioned the cooler without permission is borderline illegal in my opinion."
 
Steve summed up what I've been feeling about LMG and more. I'm still gonna watch the WAN Show and probably most of the LTT videos but the company needs to get their s**t together. At the size of LMG (as much as Linus wants to call it small company) some things are not acceptable.

What in the video is going to be "debunked" at some point? Steve came with receipts. He didn't say anything where he didn't have a screenshot or clip to back it up.
 
About the only thing that I could see being "debunked" is what happened with the waterblock that was sold at auction at LTX. Maybe there is an alternative explanation for what happened there and the public is missing some important details that happened behind the scenes. But other than that, LTT did make the mistakes Steve pointed out - I remember almost all of them, and for a few the videos are still up in their original state. Linus did say all of the things that Steve pointed out - I remember some of those as well, and the respective WAN Shows where they happened should still be available for viewing.
 
What is there to "debunk" in the video? You can disagree with the severity of the issues, but I don't see anything that will later be shown to be factually incorrect. (Except perhaps that aforementioned auction situation)

While I have been sufficiently entertained by LTT, I really do agree that the content is seemingly rushed, and there is a general lack of attention-to-detail that is leading to all these issues. I hope that a callout like this will get the conversation started to allow for videos to spend more time in production. Even the fun "janky" projects have felt very rushed and half-baked, and the constant "*" everywhere is pretty jarring. If it means that their video output should be halved, so be it. Make it a video that I will be more likely to watch multiple times.
 
Sidenote: Yeah, selling a startup's best prototype is... wow... I really hope there's some sort of resolution to this. I know that if LTT fucked my startup that hard, I'd be out for blood.

Different people can have differing opinions though I would argue that yes. It does matter, if the content produced by Linus Media Group is designed to help guide purchasing practices I think that the least that can be done is stating that the primary shareholder is invested in a company that has a product in that field. Even if that shareholder's intention with the investment was to lose money to omit that I think isn't great. Since relying on assumption of not impacting peoples judgement is really not a great idea for a business to do.

I might trust Alex to be honest about his taste in laptops. At the same time I could say that it would be easier to trust him if he purchased all the laptops for review rather than was an employee of a company that is regularly sponsored by laptop manufacturers and was given the laptops by the companies, as well as the owner and one of the C suite executives has shares in a laptop company.

Personally and I understand that Linus responded to people asking and said why he couldn't but I still hold the position that it would have been better if Linus had donated the money to Framework instead of becoming an investor.

Even the employees and Luke have publicly said things should be properly tested/they should focus more on quality than numbers.
a.k.a. it is a well known problem and Linus won't budge.
 
The prototype auction is the cherry on top. Criminal stuff.

If you want to say something negative about Apple or Microsoft, you do it publicly in a review, not try to privately call Tim Cook or Satya Nadella to tell them about your concerns. Why LMG should be treated any differently? They are a big corporation with big profits and a big impact on the industry, not a bunch of goofy YouTubers making silly videos

Try plugging more screens so you can run the games at the same time

I'd say it overheats, but idk try it for the lolz

I'd say it overheats, but idk try it for the lolz

My  grandparents gave 50 US$ more or less, and I don't know if I should buy a 250GB SSD or more games.
My current storage setup consists of 2x500GB HDD ( one is a WD Blue 5400RPM 2.5 inch for various kinds of data and the other is a Samsung Spinpoint 7200RPM 3.5 inch for OS), and 1x1TB ( a WD My Passport).
What would you recommend?
P.S: I have bad english