saltycaramel

The confusing (and, let’s admit it, intentionally misleading) ways Qualcomm is doing the comparisons with Apple Silicon has been giving me headaches, both at the time of the initial unveiling and at today’s controlled-environment press hands-on event. 
 
It’s a constant game of apples to oranges comparisons and deliberate confusion.
 
First of all, what even is the equivalent Apple chip to compare against the Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite (or SxE)? The M2, the M2 Pro or the M2 Max? Or maybe more appropriately the actual Apple chips for 2024 (M3, M3 Pro and M3 Max, being released tonight)?
 
The SxE is a 12 P-core homogeneous design, with no E-cores.
 
Additionally, the SxE, compared to Apple’s chips, is heavily skewed towards allocating its transistor budget (or die area if you will) to the CPU section of the SoC, and has a comparatively smaller GPU. Apple’s M3 chips will run circles around the SxE in terms of GPU, roughly with the M3 being 1x the SxE, the M3 Pro being 2x and the M3 Max being 4x in terms of GPU results, not to mention they’ll most certainly have hw ray tracing, which the SxE lacks (edit: or lacks temporarily, apparently).
 
The best way to approximate what the SxE is ballpark-comparable to could be “the CPU of an M2 Max in MT terms + the CPU of an M2 Pro in ST terms + the GPU of a base M2”. (Or swap “M3” for “M2” after tonight’s M3 unveiling)
 
Hence:
- comparing the ST performance to the M2 Max is theatre, ‘cause you might as well compare it to an M2 Pro or even a well cooled M2, it’s not like ST changes much accross the M2 family, but saying “faster in ST than the M2 Max” sounds more impressive
- comparing the MT performance to the humble base M2 (with its 4p+4e cores, vs 12p cores in the SxE) is…what is it, even? Really?
- comparing the GPU performance to the humble base M2…is cherry picking the only M2 chip the SxE can beat in terms of GPU. (Probably the base M3 tonight will take away even that)
 
Just pick one Apple chip to go against Qualcomm, and then be consistent with the comparison, power efficiency and all. 
 
The way they did it has been just confusing. 
 
ps: someone smarter than me should explain what’s the deal with the Linux GB6 ST score of 3200 that according to Anandtech benefits from the fans being at full blast at all times…was it misleading to quote that score in their presentation or is it fair game? The Windows GB6 ST score with a normal fan curve profile is much closer to the M2 score, probably on par with the M3 score.

Ask the makers of ForeFlight?
 
Maybe because Android tablets never really took off as a premium software platform where real people and professionals spend actual money for premium apps?
 
Maybe because iPads are stable, predictable and dependable hardware-wise across the years? 
 
You may have made the case for the closed system with that example.
 
Looks like it's Apple's fault even when competitors can't get their sh..strategy together. 

My iPhone 15 Pro Max feels so intentionally nerfed by Apple. 
 
My AirPods Pro 2 are so low quality, those darn share buybacks.

I hate my 16" MBP to my guts, I wish I wasn't locked in this whole ecosystem thing.
 
 
...said no one ever.
Some of the wording in that suit feels like there's literally someone at the DOJ drinking the stereotypical "Apple hater in every comment section on the internet" kool-aid. That's gonna cost a lot of money (for the years of pointless court battle) to US taxpayers if their case is so weak and Apple manages to turn it upside down. On the other hand, usually they take on cases they can win so they may have some damning evidence (like emails, etc.) up their sleeve. But for the time being, there sure are some dumb takes in that 88-page suit.

My iPhone 15 Pro Max feels so intentionally nerfed by Apple. 
 
My AirPods Pro 2 are so low quality, those darn share buybacks.

I hate my 16" MBP to my guts, I wish I wasn't locked in this whole ecosystem thing.
 
 
...said no one ever.
Some of the wording in that suit feels like there's literally someone at the DOJ drinking the stereotypical "Apple hater in every comment section on the internet" kool-aid. That's gonna cost a lot of money (for the years of pointless court battle) to US taxpayers if their case is so weak and Apple manages to turn it upside down. On the other hand, usually they take on cases they can win so they may have some damning evidence (like emails, etc.) up their sleeve. But for the time being, there sure are some dumb takes in that 88-page suit.

Ask the makers of ForeFlight?
 
Maybe because Android tablets never really took off as a premium software platform where real people and professionals spend actual money for premium apps?
 
Maybe because iPads are stable, predictable and dependable hardware-wise across the years? 
 
You may have made the case for the closed system with that example.
 
Looks like it's Apple's fault even when competitors can't get their sh..strategy together. 

Listening to WAN right now, I have a few questions:
 
1) if I wanted to buy 10 million screwdrivers from Linus, would I be able to bargain for a quantity discount from him just like Netflix haggled for a quantity discount with Apple? Are quantity discounts illegal? And how can he compare actively breaking compatibility via a RFID chip to passively not putting in the extra work (and continued support, forever and ever) to add Android support to Apple accesories? Should the government force companies to "put in the extra work and continued support till the end of times" for something that doesn't make business sense to them? 
 
2) close your eyes and think about how many accessories, peripherals, SSDs, gamepads, etc. you've come across in your tech life that could only be firmware updated on Windows (or via their gaming console for gamepads) and not on Linux/macOS. Just like the Airpods firmware can only be updated on the OS that is used by the vast majority of their users. (iPhone users worldwide are 1.2B, Airpods users worldwide are in the ballpark of 250M, a subset of the iPhone population, I have a feeling the overlap may be pretty high, maybe even in the 90%...whereas Beats sales may tell another story, but those can be updated on Android)
 
3) should the government force Floatplane to put in the extra work to support macOS natively (not via iPadOS app compatibility) or release a visionOS app? Should the government force Meta to finally release a native iPadOS app for Whatsapp? 
 
4) I'm gonna go full whataboutism: what about all the proprietary accessories ever that would only work with their respective same-brand products? Is the Sonos ecosystem completely illegal? Could the Wii U gamepad/tablet be connected to a PS3? What about some cameras and their proprietary accessories? What about some car accessories, can I install them on cars from other brands? Can I connect a Sony PSVR2 headset to macOS? (well actually that may happen, but only because they're having weak sales, not because the government is forcing them). So why can't the Apple Watch exist as an iPhone-only accessory? 
 
What I'm trying to say is that it's not that these business practices are unheard of or egregiously bad (Linus getting all triggered about them notwithstanding, "this is sPiTeFuL") per se, for the most part.
 
The framing should be more: Apple is TOO BIG to do this kind of stuff. A "gatekeeper", as the EU calls these kind of companies.
 
But Apple wasn't "TOO BIG" when all of this started.
So, of course they will keep doing what they used to do until someone forces them not to, they will defend their case, they will comply kicking and screaming all the way. Anybody here happily pays more taxes than they're supposed to? 

Hello, Linus and team. This was such an excellent video. I work in the A/V industry, and seeing it get some notice is cool. I've been a video engineer for nearly 25 years and dabble in projection occasionally. I wanted to share a photo of the biggest projection map I've been a part of. 48 projectors in total, the front main screen was over 300' long, seamless with scenic elements. (We had columns that were projection-mapped, the projectors are on their side.) 6 Projectors for delay screens and one projector backstage for the client viewing area. 

Likely most everyone who watched this video was watching it alone.

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

This whole movie happened in your head.
 
I didn't misrepresent anything. I didn't use quotation marks.
I've now added a "Read the whole thread" warning to that post because apparently we now have to write under the assumption people won't click on external links and we have to bear the blame of people failing to read the whole linked source (makes so much sense!).
 
Show me where I implied they were "happy", unless the idiom "good old" INEVITABLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY implies the idea of "being happy about it" (English isn't my first language but I don't recall this to be case). And anyway that was ME speaking (= mockingly translating his corporate-speech tirade), without quotation marks.

It's important to keep a few things in mind when it comes to info like this.
 
I know it's been said before, but it's worth repeating. This is not a VR headset, it's using augmented reality.
 
Apple likes ot very strongly control the perception of their tools. They don't want this to be considered against something like the Quest 3 or Valve Index. Apple is trying to push AR computing into something new and advance along what they see is the future for the tech. That leads to messaging and branding peculiarities such as Apple communicating to developers that they should not use terminology like AR, or VR to describe their experiences on this hardware, but also decisions like this that can be puzzling. Could Apple have included more onboard storage? Yes, of course they could have. It probably wouldn't have even moved the needle on their price. Sometimes the decision to include less storage is a nudge by Apple trying to control the end user experience. They include less storage which can then nudge developers in the direction Apple wants them to go in terms of software for this device.

Apple’s goal: make the product so compelling the consumer will get over the price, including the price for upgrades from purposedly “not peace of mind” base specs.
 
Is the consumer being “compelled” somehow being “duped”?
 
Yes and no. 
The compelling aspects are very real and very worth the price of admission. 
 
And some of the profits are reinvested to make even more compellingly amazing products, at the bleeding edge of the industry.
Case in point: the Vision Pro. (pat yourself on the back if by overpaying for storage upgrades and buying iPhones you contributed to the $100B R&D behind that)
 
As a capitalism story, it isn’t that bad. (euphemism, it’s a capitalism success story for the ages and it changed the world)
But cue the armchair experts explaining how it’s done. 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

I love that this video, coming just 3-4 weeks before the actual launch of the Vision Pro, manages to never mention high end 4K-per-eye XR headsets as an alternative to these monster TVs. It’s like this video is a perfect “time capsule” of the world just before the impeding XR headset revolution. 
 
And yet Linus makes the perfect case for the 100-feet Vision Pro cinema mode display compared to this unwieldy monstrosity (that also happens to draw orders of magnitude more power compared to VR headsets), both from the consumer standpoint (“good luck taking it down to get support for a dead pixel”) and the manufacturing standpoint. 
 
Cost-wise, this TV costs like 3 Vision Pros or like 5-6 of the eventual Vision “Air” headsets. Could equip a whole family with headsets. Said headsets also come with an integrated computer and can display 3D movies. 
 
ps: one funny tidbit, the Vision Pro too can simulate the light from the virtual screen casting light on your room and furniture 

PL2 on laptops CPUs are vastly higher than TDP, to the point TDP is near not relevant unless you do lots of very long sustained workloads that put the CPU in to PL1 the entire time, otherwise the power usage is PL2 over total time in that state.
 

https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/743844
 
As you can see in the above PL2 is way higher than TDP, way way higher. AMD's is typically 35% above TDP unless vendor has changed it as it is configurable (user software configurable too).
 
Sure these CPUs are 28W TDP but a realistic expected PL2 figure in my opinion for these would be ~70W. The 7840HS PPT (sustained boost) is 47W and is what appears to be commonly configured on actual laptops on the market.
 
Aside from battery capacity differences the AMD CPU being a little better for battery run time is probably correct. Although Intel 13th Gen is actually quite close to sometimes better depending on configured CPU power for the AMD CPU and workloads being done so 14th Gen could actually be ever so slightly better.

https://9to5google.com/2023/11/18/nothing-chats-sunbird-unencrypted-data-privacy-nightmare/

and that kids is why you shouldn’t do this kind of stuff.

https://9to5google.com/2023/11/18/nothing-chats-sunbird-unencrypted-data-privacy-nightmare/

and that kids is why you shouldn’t do this kind of stuff.

https://9to5google.com/2023/11/18/nothing-chats-sunbird-unencrypted-data-privacy-nightmare/

and that kids is why you shouldn’t do this kind of stuff.

https://9to5google.com/2023/11/18/nothing-chats-sunbird-unencrypted-data-privacy-nightmare/

and that kids is why you shouldn’t do this kind of stuff.

https://www.tomshardware.com/software/macos/apple-spent-dollar1-billion-to-tape-out-new-m3-processors-analyst
 

The M1 Pro was just a cut down M1 Max.
The M2 Pro was just a cut down M2 Max.
 
This time around the M3 Pro is its own thing.
And it’s been rebalanced to be more skewed towards e-cores. (6p+6e or 5p+6e, instead of 8p+4e and 8p+2e of the previous generations)
 
Why is that?
Why was it deemed worth it to be ad-hoc designed this time around?
Why was it made slightly smaller/cooler/less_poweful than its predecessors?
 
Are we gonna see some new products that will use the new&smaller M3 Pro? (A gaming oriented AppleTV Pro? A redesigned slimmer MacMini? The base iMac Pro? Or, heck, even the highest end 13” iPad Pro? Maybe a downclocked M3 Pro could fit in a fanless design?)
 
Or maybe this repositioning of the M3 Pro is simply meant to make the upsell to the M3 Max more enticing?