Nigh74ury

Hi, sorry for the delay it was the end of my vacations so I wasn't there.
 
If you use the A240 in one separate loop and a copper GPU block in another completely separate loop than the A240 loop you'll be fine since both loops lives in their own small world.
 
By separate loop I mean separate pump/res, separate rad, separate fittings, separate tubing, separate blocks.

Leave this with me and ill look into it on the new site we are building from the ground up.

And thank you for your input.
 
Mick

This is going to be a bit lengthy so buckle down.
 
It has recently been brought to my attention that documentation surrounding the safety and contents of typical watercooling pre-mix coolants to be inconsistent, inadequate, and sometimes outright incorrect. I'm going to be firing in particular to Mayhems and EKWB because that's the ones I've been looking at so far, but I am sure it is a widely spread practice (or lack thereof). I would love to hear the opinions of Industry Affiliates @EK Luc, don't know if there is a Mayhem's affiliate here, I've tried to ask their company but failed to get through so far.
 
Before the distilled water community come chorusing in about their superiority, I would quickly mention that this technically applies any common additives as well; so unless you are running literally only water, this applies to you too.
 
It all started with a minor inconsistency observation about the Mayhems Pastel Extreme 100ml that clearly stated on their product page (all information shown here was true at least on the 4th of July 2017)
 

 
which is fair enough, however I noticed in the safety documentation sheet (SDS) the next inconsistency:
 

 

So clearly, this coolant is supposedly 99.8% ethylene glycol (commonly used antifreeze) which is not "that safe". However the more disturbing thing is that firstly, the SDS states rather boldly that the product "Can be disposed of down normal waste drain" in clear contradiction to their product webpage. It is also strange that the two components of concern, zinc oxide and titanium oxide, do not feature at all in the safety data sheet. There are many instances like this within the Mayhems series of coolants - but this was the most striking.
 
In EKWBs case, this was more of inconsistencies, where the 100ml concentrate show 3 components:
 

 
where the pre-diluted 900ml mix only documents 1 component
 

 
This brings into question really, how many more components are in these pre-mixes sold by companies, and generally brings into question the usefulness of the SDS they provide if so much information is hidden. If Mayhems want to claim all their things are non-toxic because its 99% glycerol, and thats what they document (for example), and not talk about the nasty 1 %, that is not very good practice in my opinion.
 
Now I suspect the most of this is going to be answered with "its so dilute that its not worth writing down", but we should all be aware that it is not necessarily the concentration of a chemical that determines whether it should make it into a SDS. If it clearly at a concentration that carries out its function, then I believe it should be noted. Unless of course the companies would like to admit that they are actually operating on the basis of homeopathy.
 
My opinion is that since we as an end-user of these product (I personally am using the EK-CryoFuel and very happy with the results), but we really should be allowed to know what is actually going on inside these coolants and be provided with good quality information. Please do not get me wrong, I will still continue to recommend people to use pre-mixes over homebrewed solutions (-insert toothpaste argument here-), I just feel more information would make it even easier for me to wholeheartedly recommend these products.
 
Thanks for your attention.

Having a single loop with multiple radiators is equivalent a bigger radiator and will help in every case scenario except for when both the CPU and GPU are under full load (which is almost never)
 
You can think about it in terms of heat per radiator surface. Say you have 2x 240 mm radiators (480mm total) and you run a dual look with 1 loop for the CPU and 1 loop for the GPU.Then at full load, your CPU (120W, say for example) will have to dissipate its heat using 240 mm of rad space (0.5 Watt/mm, not a real unit, but whatever), and your GPU (240 W, say for example) will have to dissipate using 240 mm of rad space (~1). So the GPU loops is taxed more since it is generating more heat with the same amount of rad space.
 
On the other hand if you ran a single loop at full load, you will be dissipating and the 360W using 480 mm of radiator space (0.75). So while your CPU may heat up a bit more, the overall system will have an easier time managing the full load since you aren't pushing one loop harder than another.
 
And since most applications don't put a full load on both the CPU and the GPU at the same time, having a single loop is like having a big radiator for that component. For example in a CPU intensive task you may use 120W on the CPU, but only, say, 80 W on the GPU, but in a single loop that will be dissipated using the full 480mm rad space  (0.42), whereas if you had 2 loops, the CPU loop will be pushed at (0.5) as before, whereas the GPU loop will be sitting around doing almost nothing (0.33).
 
That is why from a practical perspective single loops probably perform better. You might observe slighted warmer idle/semi-load temps but you are less likely to saturate your radiator with heat.
 

Nope, dont do it. ThermalTake radiator is aluminium and phanteks water block is still nickel plated copper. 

mmm I would urge you to consider the more full copper one with the kit i suggested (the most expensive one), it actually gives you really good value for the price. I forgot to add in the cost of extra fans you would need, so add 2 fans to each of those options.
 
But ultimately, your choice. Be aware that a dual-loop is actually worst performing than a single loop in some scenarios if you look at it as a system as a whole. 

I suppose if you pump your coolant with anti-corrosives, then you are at the same level as AIOs. But it really is like "I wouldn't recommend you to jump a red light" you'll probably be okay for a while, but one day you may get hit by a car.
 
 
TT tried to address it by putting a sacrificial layer of zinc on it, but that caused some more problems with Pastel fluids. 
 
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=1188197
 
Just don't do it, is my recommendation.

I'm bored before going to sleep, so I did some maths for you too
 
Basically for the full copper loop you need: 
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-kit-p240 - 325.19 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc1080-gtx-ti-aorus-nickel - 116.83 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-acf-fitting-10-13mm-nickel x 2 - 9.12 euro or x4, if you want the extra rad
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-pe-240-dual - 67.07 euro (optional)
 
Totalling: 527.33 euro for a 2x 240 rad setup with a nice D5 pump. 451.14 euro if you opt not to get a second radiator
 
You can get the slim variant if you don't have space, it'll be a bit cheaper but you only get an SPC pump (same as the Fluid Gaming pump) its ok, but not great
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-kit-s240 - 203.27 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc1080-gtx-ti-aorus-nickel - 116.83 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-acf-fitting-10-13mm-nickel x 2 - 9.12 euro or x4, if you want the extra rad
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-se-240-slim-dual - 55.85 euro (optional)
So 394.19 or 329.22 euro 
 
The equivalent for the dual loop would be....(going for cheap now)
https://www.ekfluidgaming.com/ek-kit-a240 - 172.73
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc1080-gtx-ti-aorus-nickel - 116.83 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-se-240-slim-dual - 55.85 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-acf-fitting-10-13mm-nickel x 6 - 27.36 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-100-spc-60-mx-pwm-incl-pump -77.19 euro
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-duraclear-9-5-12-7mm - 15.19 euro
 
465 euro
 

With a powerful pump like a D5 or DDC, the water goes through the system so quickly that there are no temperature differences (major ones, anyway) in any segment of the watercooled loop. The whole loop gradually warms up and gradually cools down. This is why order of the loop doesn't matter and you don't need to have a radiator between each component.

So this build continues from a previous build where I used an AIO and air for a dual GPU setup. However although the AIO worked beautifully, I got gradually annoyed at how the twin turbines that the GTX1080 Turbo was in comparison. So I decided to go full custom watercooling - so yes, AIOs can be a gateway drugs towards a full custom loop. This is my first loop on my first PC
So this was the air-cooled build, as nice as it was, the GPUs were loud AF.

 
To make watercooling worth it with the 7700L, obligatory delid. You can see how much TIM there was on the die.

 
and on the IHS

 
Cleaned using scraping and isopropanol. The TIM was replaced with ThermalGrizzly Conductonaut.

 
Boys and girls, make sure your computer still POSTs after doing something crazy like a delid. Also, wasabi is not a good thermal compound, would not recommend.

 
Dissassembly of the GPU block. I was very lucky to find a waterblock for the 1080-Turbo. Bitspower was the only company that made a full cover block for this card.

 
Cleaned the GPU

 
Following the instruction with the pads, and using the EKWB method with arctic MX-4 thermal compound.

 
Assembled block

 
 
While Bitspower blocks are perceived as more expensive than for example EKWB. One should remember they come with backplates by default.

 
Since space is such an issue in the Define C, I bodged up some custom feet for my D5 pump using the UNI-holders from EK. Super-glued some HDD spacers for rubber feet and velcro for extra stability.

 
Make sure you get a drain port. This is made from a male-to-male dual rotary, T-splitter, and a ball-valve.

 
Installation of the monoblock. Its for the Strix motherboard, but is also compatible for the prime.

 
After re-mounting the motherboard, the next thing that had to go in was a 360 mm radiator with the fans - any other order meant that this wouldn't go in. White chromax for accents, but removed from the side that contacts the radiator for a better seal against the radiator. 3 fans connected to one header with a splitter.

 
Returning the dual-GPU block. Note for future builders, would highly recommend removing the SLI bride when building.

 
Mounting the top 240 mm radiator.

 
Much darker in the interior as a result.

 
Looking into ways to mounting the floating reservoir. Currently trying the uni-holder + res mounts. Notice how the D5 pump barely clears the PSU shroud and so the custom feet was necessary since other methods made the pump too tall.

 
In the end I used just a uni-holder to prop the res from the bottom, and the hardline tubing also keep the res up to a degree.

 
Installation of the Koolance flow meter & multiplier, my original intention was to hook this up to the CPU_FAN header so that if flow dropped too low, the PC would shut down. However the multipler takes too long to kick in and I was sometimes failing to post (Due to cpu fan error) and so after establishing I had a good flow rate, this was removed.

 
 
System was filled up using EK-CryoFuel. However I managed to kill quite a lot of my LED strips, presumably during the filling process because some of them were still plugged into the PSU molexes. So you can see that the monoblock is dead, and that the left LED strip bottom section was fixed to yellow for some reason. Also the SLI bridge was also fixed so some kind of green. Lesson learnt: unplug even unimportant components like LED strips during the filling .

 
So I replaced the LED strips and the SLI bridge (didn't like the ROG one too much anyway, I think it went well with the original build, but the EVGA looks much better for this waater one). Also, custom cables! I also removed the koolance meter since I was getting more than 1 gpm so was happy to settle for that knowledge.

 
Chaos in the back, the panel still closes, but it is very tight

 
RAM clearance. Basically none, the 30 mm rad + 25 mm fan barely clears the LPX memory.

 
GPU clearance, again barely clears with a 30mm rad + 25 mm fan. This can be made easier if you mount the fan outside of the case between the front panel. But I take pride in the face that everything fits inside my case.

 
The only thing I don't like is that the bottom tube is not quite parallel to the bottom of the case. Maybe to be redone in the next scheduled maintenance.

 
 
Side panel still fits, yay

 

Edit: There should be a line going from the 2nd rad back to the pump viva la ms paint.
 

 
Avoid thermaltake rads all together, they should not be used with any copper/nickel blocks
 
Radiators from EKWB, Hardwarelabs, Alphacool are all copper/brass, there are many more too, thermaltake is an outlier.

In one loop? You can use lots of radiators with only one pump, only thing is if you use like 4 or 5 rads you might need more pumps for more flow.

and FYI, all Thermaltake radiators are aluminium, so you would not want to use it with a copper GPU block, same issue.

DUAL LOOP:
 
One loop - all copper/nickel/brass for GPU
and 
One loop - all aluminum (EK A240) for CPU only.
 
Neither has any connections to the other.
 
ANYTHING ELSE:
Single loop, galvanic corrosion, and many other problems.

You're right there. Running them in two separate loops is fine. You only get an issue when the same water is flowing over aluminium and copper.

If you are looking to expand the loop, I think it would be premature to invest in the aluminium series. Its a great kit if you are going to use it as is. I also wouldn't use the rather janky looking rads that come with the barbs pre-installed. Don't fall for false economy, perhaps consider spending a little bit more to save money in the long run.
 
Surface area > rad thickness. Thicker rads mean you need to run the fans faster to get sufficient flow, and so I prefer not-so-thick rads.
 
The DDC pump is respectable, but inferior to the D5, but I think its not a bad choice per se.
 
Obviously depends on your budget, but I think full custom is the way to go if you can dish the cash out. For instance, if you regret your purchase in future and want to upgrade to a D5, you should have just gone out with the top-of-the-range to begin with.
 
Or wait a year or so, and wait for the aluminium series to mature.

I think the OP received it's information from the CS team already.
 
Also, in the upcoming weeks/months we will offer more "accessories" like coolant, fans, mounting brackets, etc... directly in the Fluid Gaming website.  This way, customers will be able to add everything in one cart.

That's awfully expensive for a 2TB HDD At lower sizes like that I'd consider going with a 960 EVO, they're not much more I don't believe that cooler is very good Any reason for the huge wattage PSU? Don't get the OEM version of Windows unless you don't plan on reusing it Ryzen might be better unless you only game Welcome to the forum!