Skanky Sylveon

@food158 I think that wireless makes a very good compliment to wired, and can be a good replacement in certain instances.  Emphasis on certain. 

The removal of the headphone jack is part subjective and part objective. 

The subjective part is that many people perfer certain headphones over others, and most of the better sounding headphones (subjectively speaking of course) tend to be wired. 

The objective part is that apple removed functionality that doesn't have a proper replacement, and that wireless audio has a lot of disadvantages as well, many of which are convenience related. 

The problem with OP's logic is that he's assuming that wireless audio is competing with wired, which is far from the truth. 

Many wired speakers are geared toward the outdoorsman, having features like water resistance and portability, while a wired pair will focus on sound quality and ease of integration.  While there is overlap they are largely geared towards separate audiences.  One isn't inherently better than the other, it's purely dependent on the individual's needs whether or not wireless is more valued then wired technology.  Apple shoving what they think is best down everyone's throats is what people largely have a problem with. 

47 minutes ago, food158 said:

Apple is not a god that wants to save the planet.

If apple cared about this planet then they would be in support for right to repair, and I'm not even talking about legislation, I'm talking about supporting independent repair technicians repairing what would normally be trashed by apple.  E-waste is a rather large problem. 

@mr moose

While phones are hardly a good device when it comes to backwards compatibility I would like to see some kind of standard across the board such as the ATX standard on desktops.  Don't need a headphone jack?  Great, populate that module with more storage or RAM.

I've seen a few single board computers that have an EMMC slot for adding whatever amount of storage fits your budget. 

I would imagine that a slot with simaler dimensions could be used as a PCIe slot for phones of sorts, perhaps only an x1 connection, but that would still provide an insane amount of flexibility and customization to one's mobile device. 

53 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

U do realize what Apple is right?  Ya they are a company no shit. But they are also a brand, that people and more importantly brands will follow, meaning they have clout in the industry THAT NO OTHER HAS. 

What the hell does them being a brand have to do with them pushing technology forward?

53 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

U are partially right on this. But AGAIN that is not the point they aren't here to innovate on the tech. They are here to popularize it so that the market aka the masses with shit tons of cash spend it on that new tech. Meaning while Apple doesn't RnD the new tech what they do is popularize let it be the tech with there own shit (Airpods) or they popularize the idea of it. 

 

It seems u are really missing that bit. U act as if they are apple and also Samsung. THEY AREN'T.

 

Apple waits until the tech is ready and people like Samsung have done the grunt work they didn't want to do publicly because they aren't that sort of brand. So again u need to get your head in the right place with regards to WHAT Apple is before u start telling me who they are. Cuz that shit doesn't work as u can hopefully now see........

All that I can see is that you are defending a choice that apple made which heavily inconvenienced thousands of people.  People have a right to be mad about that decision, and to be frank, I don't give a damn what apple is.  All I care about is if they make products that I'm interested in.  Nothing more, nothing less.

53 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

Your right this is one reason as to why the adhesive loses its adhesion to the two surfaces. Sure but one u are missing the others and two this only applies to the Apple watch. iPhones and phones in general have MUCH SMALLER strips of adhesive and if u knew about the other reasons why adhesives lose adhesion then u would know why these two are different. 

 

TLDR its surface area, the watch has more and the small strips on phones have less. I could explain more but to bad look it up later, i don't got the time. 

So back to my point even if companies used only flat to flat adhesives like the ones we are using today (And not the worthless gaskets) we would still have the problem of it wearing out TO FAST. 

 

The issue is there size and that can't be overcome chemically not for QUITE A while that is. Seeing as 3M doesn't seem to have anything new up their sleeve. So then we are back to making the adhesive strip bigger which also won't happen because phone space is limited especially with regards to the horizontal space needed to put in a larger strip. 

 

I wish we could do more but phones are just a shitty thing to waterproof. IN essence u would need to redesign the chassis structure to accommodate waterproofing like we have on the Apple watch. And that won't happen anytime soon.

 

So TLDR we got nothing. :///

If you saw the ifixit teardown image that I linked you, you would see that the apple watch actually uses less adhesive. 

53 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

Please show me your data?

 

Because I'm going off Apples results which have been done FOR years and years. They have to do this for liability so I trust there research since they have to be right or they can get sued because they weren't. 

 

So no don't give me false data that u made up just because thats how it worked out for you. U are one sample size Apple has sample sizes of MILLIONS. So try again...

https://www.permabond.com/technical_support/temperature-effects/

https://www.hotmelt.com/blogs/blog/how-temperature-changes-can-affect-hot-melt-adhesivbuy-1080-gtx

A quick Google search will give you the information on the stability of certain adhesives at various temperatures. 

Furthermore, the anecdotal evidence strawman can be taken apart due to the fact that adhesive performance can and has been understood for decades.  It doesn't matter on what device the adhesive is applied to, they will perform the same if they are in identical environments. 

58 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

If that were true then companies would have increased the pressure put on the gaskets to therefore increase the water pressure they can withstand. BUT THEY DIDN'T key part here bud. 

 

They did it for many reasons a few are as follows:

- The phone body itself aka the metal housing can't handle the pressure from the screws over long periods of time. (meaning they will break in a pretty short amount of time)

- U can't just tighten the rubber gasket till whatever u want, there is a point at which it is the most efficient and after that u have a diminishing return for what is done. 

So to fix this ya u could get a better quality rubber or a bigger gasket sure. But then your just making the problem bigger and worse. 

 

So no u can't just tighten the gasket its not just that simple geez kid; they are multi billion dollar companies I get it u don't like them. But to think they wouldn't try every situational instance on a product that makes them INSANE amounts of money. Is just preposterous to say the least. 

 

And thats in theory in reality its also not true because they test this shit. And what they found TLDR version is that gasket have a point at which they are either good or not good. And to get better water pressure resistance it would require to much for what u would expend to get it. Hence the diminishing return. 

A gasket design isn't real thin, but if you actually had any experience with taking electronics with you when diving you would know that pretty much every waterproof (not water resistant, actually water proof) camera case uses gaskets and screws with a specific torque specification. 

Gasket designs are also particularly expensive, phone manufacturers didn't remove screws because they were inferior to plastic clips, they were removed due to them adding thickness and price to the final product.  

Also,calling me a kid when you are using "u" instead of "you".  Priceless. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Again sorry bud but if we went by the "LETS WAIT till its ready logic" then we would be waiting forever. Haven't u ever heard that saying?? Sure doesn't seem like it lol

No, we wouldn't be waiting forever, take firewire for example. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Your missing the point bud. U have to understand how humans work to then understand how u can properly push them to accept a new technology and rid themselves of an old one. IN this case its wireless from wired connections. 

I get it seems flawed from a perspective where u don't understand but that doesn't make it flawed just means u haven't learned enough about it to decide if it is or isn't. 

 

Its ironic really, cause if no one had the logic that I explained Apple uses along with many companies before them. Then bub we wouldn't have anything close to what we have now. Know why??? because if we didn't throw away (relatively speaking of course) the old and jump into the new no matter how bad or good it is. Then we would be behind by centuries technologically. 

 

This is how humans adapt u can't have them gradually adapt. Ya it works but its to slow and not efficient fucking at all. Hence why u need to tell them to stfu take there old tech burn to shit and MAKE THEM (market talk wise) buy the new one. 

Humans are stupid creatures they need to manipulated like this or we would still be centuries behind. I wish u could see the realities that would have taken place if this logic base hadn't been established in the minds of the top companies back in the days and now. Then u could really see reality for what it is or I guess better put what it would have been. 

Don't group the entirety of humanity in the same relm as your line of thinking.  Doing so is an insult to just about everyone who isn't a shill for their favorite company. 

Also, apple isn't even a century old, so no, we wouldn't be a century behind if your favorite company didn't exist. 

I REALLY hope that apple is paying you good money to spout your nonsense, because if not, you're a rather sad individual. 

18 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Caching happens because of the time it takes for a slow USB memory device to write data, not because of any processing power or responsiveness.

"This prevents the program from spending a large amount of time saving to a slower drive"

To be frank, I have better things to do then arguing with someone who is acting like Sheldon from the big bang theory.  Have a nice day.

29 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The default has always been "quick removal" for USB drives.

Alright, then this thread was pointless.  Sorry about that.

26 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Caching works by temporarily storing the data somewhere else while it slowly buffers to the USB in the background.

Either way it takes the same amount of time for the data to get onto the USB.

That's what I said.

"write commands are sent to system RAM and get sent to the external storage drive."

28 minutes ago, Enderman said:

I have no idea what you're talking about with write commands or the "PC being busy".

Let me re phrase that.  Instead of photoshop saving directly to the flash drive, it will be sent to system RAM and be stored until Windows decides that it's a good time to send it to the drive.  If multiple things are being saved to the drive in a short amount of time, the operating system may store the saved data for a prolonged period, then send it all at once.

This prevents the program from spending a large amount of time saving to a slower drive, thus making the system more responsive when it comes to saving data, especially if it's multiple saves during a short amount of time.

34 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Either way it takes the same amount of time for the data to get onto the USB.

I never stated that transfer speeds themselves would be faster, I made a few typos and worded it in a way that someone could think that though, so I corrected it.

21 minutes ago, Enderman said:

You do realize that caching the file transfer does literally nothing to speed up the time it takes to get the file onto the drive, right...................

From my understanding write commands are sent to system RAM and get sent to the external storage drive when the PC isn't busy doing something else, correct?

Wait, I said drive instead of PC, didn't I?  Oops, I'll correct it so it's less confusing. 

13 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The worst part is that the article noted that this feature was a coming up one in the May 2019 Update, only to post an update that it is the current version of Windows 10, despite comments noting that it was always there even one saying that it is in Windows 7.

I've known about it for a few years.  Is Microsoft changing the default setting for removable devices to "quick removal" correct though?

UPDATE:  Soooo, Windows already defaults to "Quick removal" when it comes to removable USB drives.  So the article is wrong, and I'm dumb for not knowing that.  Sorry.

https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/microsoft-changes-how-windows-10-disconnects-usb-storage-devices/

Quote

Until now, the default policy in all previous Windows versions when disconnecting a USB storage device was the "Better performance" setting.

 

Starting with Windows 10 v1809, this will become "Quick removal."

This has been a setting that I've known about for a while, but let's have the article explain it for us.

Quote

"Better performance" means that Windows manages data transfers and storage operations in a manner that improves performance. This includes caching data while it's being transferred, opened, or in preparation for certain operations.

 

This constant readiness on Windows' part meant that any user who wanted to disconnect a USB or Thunderbolt-connected storage device had to go through the "Safely Hardware Removal" process, which meant triggering a manual Eject.

 

All Windows users know the procedure.

 

But starting with Windows 10 v1809, the default state for all USB and Thunderbolt storage devices will become "Quick removal," which is a state where external storage devices can be disconnected without following the "Safely Hardware Removal" process.

First off, you'll probably still get corrupted data if you remove the USB device when it's in the middle of a write, but I largely believe that this is a good change (as long as Microsoft doesn't mess it up that is).

The article tells you how to switch individual drives back to performance mode, which is reccomended for anyone who is responsible enough to click "safely remove hardware", or if you have an external USB hard drive hooked up to your PC long term, but the vast majority of people just pull their drives from their computer without clicking the safely remove hardware button, and while the chance is real small, it's still possible to corrupt data if your computer was caching your data, as it wasn't quite on your drive yet.  This happens most often with large file transfers on a slower drive, but if you pull it at the right time (or wrong time in this case) it can happen with pretty much all drives that are set to "better performance".

Whether this will affect your PC depends on sevral factors, how fast your drive is, how fast your connection speed is, how powerful your CPU is, etc.  But performance shouldn't be affected too much, although prolonged writes on a slow drive while doing something intensive (like video rendering) could cause performance to drop slightly, especially if you're using an older CPU.

Again, I think that this is largely a good change, but the people on these fourms are a bit more tech savvy than your average consumer, so I can see this change irritating some here.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

Damn right I'm biased

People need to stop throwing the word "biased" like it's a negative thing.  We're human beings, not robots, we all have preferences.

My preferences are that I would like a device that I spent a grand on to be user serviceable, the fact that I need a heat gun to open it is disgusting, and that's a note 9, so I have that problem with all modern flagship phones, not just apple.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

No actually I wouldn't, because CD's provided the exact same reliable, convenient way to store 300x or more data in a small form factor

The "old technology being replaced" comparison is a strawman that's rather easy to pull apart. 

I already brought up the AC power comparison, but should we switch exclusively to SSDs?  HDDs provide by far the best GB to dollar ratio.

Speaking of HDDs, @TheReal_ist did you know that hard drives were invented in 1954, while the LaserDisc (the precursor to CDs) were invented in 1978?

CDs are on their way out, many PC cases still have 3.5 HDDs, but not so much have 5.25 optical slots anymore, the newer technology is becoming less relevant then the older technology. 

But your logic would state that's bad.  Your backwards logic would suggest that newer was always better. 

To be frank, comparing a storage medium to a connection standard is like comparing apples to oranges.  It would have been far more appropriate (and assist in your strawman argument better) if you talked about Firewire being replaced by USB 3.0 instead.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

However, I'm NOT content with having NO OTHER OPTION when I'm fed up of dealing with the compromises that come with BlueTooth. 

I think that's people's biggest issue.  To be fair, dongles do exist, but it's not as convenient as just having the 3.5mm jack built into the phone.  You have a pair of Jaybirds?  So do I.  I cannot use them outside my house without them cutting out, I live near a truck stop that has a radio system which uses the 2.4 GHz frequency.  I CANNOT use the bluebirds outside, they will immediately cut out, I understand that's an unlikely problem for most, but it just shows how unreliable bluetooth can be, especially since I can still use my 2.4 GHz wifi just fine.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

They're the furthest thing from the right mindset when it comes to audio

One could argue that apple has never prioritized sound quality, they usally try to prioritize convenience and aesthetics. 

Let's take my sansa MP3 player for comparison.  Cheap plastic, white flickering AMOLED screen, but it has an excellent DAC/AMP for the price, and can drive my HD 598's just fine.  Most people who are really into audio are not going to use an iPhone unless they attach something like the dragonfly DAC/AMP to it.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

We're just lucky that Apple hasn't purchased other big-name audio companies just yet, because without Sennheiser I'd be lost for decent audio products offering a flat sound signature and true to life mids that aren't drowned out by the bass and highs that consumer focused products command.

I doubt that apple will ever purchase Sennheiser.  A bit off topic, but I have a pair of HD 650's, I really like them, but I perfer my HE400i's from hifiman.  The mids aren't as forward though.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

while motherboard with built-in WiFi are awesome, I have yet to see those same motherboards to drop the Ethernet jack even though we have WiFi capable of 1 Gbit in the consumer space. Why? Because it gives consumers a choice of WiFi convenience or wired stability

Not to mention that wired data transfers tend to be more stable in terms of transfer speed.  It's very unlikely that you will fully saturate a 1Gb wifi connection.  Not to mention that wifi (and bluetooth) are much more susceptible to people breaking into your wifi network.  They are much less secure then wired. 

Really, I'm not against a universal port that you plug in adapters such as a 3.5mm jack, which is what I'm seeing with the USB C port.

But if the jack gets removed, I would like another USB C port, it would not only allow for using a pair of headphones when you're charging, it would also allow for you to transfer between 2 USB sticks via USB OTG.  It would give the phone a lot more functionality. 

As far as my experiences, I almost exclusively use witeless charging now.  I would argue that's more suitable of a replacement then the headphone jack to be honest.  I transfer files through SSH, which uses my wifi network, so yeah, outside of audio, I mostly use wireless functions, but even then, there's the occasional scenario where wired charging makes more sense, just like there's the occasional scenario where plugging in my phone to my computer to transfer my files makes more sense, such as when traveling.

TLDR removing functionality without a proper replacement is dumb, and will be met with criticism. 

The SnapOnAir PCB allows your Raspberry pi zero (or zero w) to become a portable Linux PC of sorts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fossbytes.com/turn-your-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-portable-linux-pc-with-this-10-pcb/amp/

Quote

When it comes to low-power single board computers, Raspberry Pi Zero is one of the cheapest minicomputers priced at $5. For an additional $5, you can get in-built Wi-Fi and Bluetooth by purchasing Raspberry Pi Zero W. However, to set it up and running, you need accessories like a display, a keyboard, and a mouse.

I would like to add to this.  You need adapters for the Raspberry pi zero.  You need a micro HDMI to HDMI cable/adapter, and a USB OTG adapter, as well as possibly needing a USB hub due to having only one USB data port. 

You trade convenience for the tiny form factor.  But for the price, and form factor, it's great, so great that Adafruit limits to only one raspberry pi zero per purchase, or else they would be bought out.  There is no shortage in demand for these tiny computers. 

Quote

What about a standalone accessory that turns Raspberry Pi Zero W into a portable Linux PC? Here is the SnapOnAir Raspberry PI ZERO PCB available on Tindie that allows you to add a 2.8 Color ILI9341 TFT display and a TCA8418 I2C chip based keyboard.

While attaching a small display to a raspberry pi is nothing new, a PCB that has a keyboard and screen would make for a very versatile little device, while you may question the usefulness for such a device when we have smartphones, the android operating system isn't really good for getting actual work done.  It's great for content consumption, and you can use it as a word editor, that's really about it.  Having a PDA like device running  raspbian could be useful for several people.

Quote

You can also connect a buzzer, a mono-audio source or a digital microphone in the 3.5mm audio port provided. Also, the SnapOnAir Raspberry PI ZERO PCB is compatible with nRF24 trx sub-boards.

3.5mm jack?  I guess they're brave enough to not mimic Apple .  Ok, petty jokes aside, an nRF24 board is a wireless 2.4GHz audio streamer, you can read more about it here.

https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Low-power-short-range-wireless/nRF24-series

So this board has some robust options when it comes to audio and audio transmission.  You could possibly use these as a walkie talkie, or perhaps a radio of sorts.

Quote

As a cherry on top, the PCB is available at a dirt cheap price of $10.

The PCB itself, yes, but keep in mind that the screen, keyboard, and anything else is not included, so it's going to be a decent amount more to set this up.

Quote

A recent update has hinted that the PCB could also support an 1800 mAh battery which makes it further useful in making DIY projects like handheld pagers and other IoT devices.

While ot would be possible to strap this onto a phone charger, that would be less then elegant, so in built battery support would be nice. 

Quote

A word of caution — there is a lot of DIY involved as it is but a standalone PCB and you need to attach additional accessories to make a functional handheld Linux PC. Nonetheless, the board looks exciting and is a must-buy for DIY enthusiasts.

Yes, from the looks of it, there will be a lot of surface mounted soldering, which is a lot more difficult then through hole soldering, although this could make a decent soldering project that's not too expensive (so if you mess it up, it's not the end of the world).

And now some of my personal thoughts, there has been a lot of neat little projects involving the raspberry pi zero, from the mintypi to a hidden compact surveillance camera, to even a projector.  That in itself has proven that the pi zero is extremely versatile, and is the right price for DIY projects.  While I would consider the SnapOnAir board rather niche, it has its place, although the pi zero is rather slow, so don't expect this to be the snappiest of portable PCs. 

52 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Their W1 chipset.

The W1 chipset makes paring easier on a grand total of 4 headphones, furthermore, Android has a tap to pair option on many bluetooth devices as well.  There are a few ease of use advancements, but nothing that a decent pair of bluetooth headphones had due to built in play/pause buttons and whatnot.

That chipset does nothing to improve on connection reliability when interference is introduced or range.

It does seem to help with input delay though, so there's that, as well as improved battery life.

I didn't really include it due to it being heavily proprietary, needing the earpods or a newer pair of beats headphones with an iPhone, but I suppose that's an improvement so I'll redact my statement. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

I can tell mate, its cool it happens. 

 

Most people can't even see other view points its common really.

 

Best thing to do is Say the cliche 
"I agree to disagree, and have a nice day"

 

 

so I'm stick with that. thxs for replying tho, any discussion is good discussion.  

My problem with understanding you is that your sentence structure was rather lacking.  I have debated people in the past that had far more reasonable arguments then you and came to the conclusion that the removal of the headphone jack isn't that big of a deal due to the widespread adoption of wireless charging and dongles.  While I still would perfer that the headphone jack be replaced with something like a second USB port for what should be obvious reasons. 

My argument with you stems from you stating that apple is pushing new technology (when bluetooth is over 20 years old mind you) when they have created nothing substantial in regards to wireless headphone standards.

Apple has innovated in the past, that much I can agree with.  Android phones would probably be non existent if it weren't for the iPhone, but apple isn't the forefront in innovation when it comes to everything, they have done their fair share of bullshit in the past and continue to do so.

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

When it comes to the wireless front, Apple definitely wants to push forward, despite inherent disadvantages of wireless, that we can't overcome without harnessing quantum entanglement (which opens another can of worms), for the sake of aesthetics. They basically want a Mac Mini to just be a box that you place on your table, powered wirelessly, along with all your peripherals. Same with your monitor, speakers, etc.

I'll agree with you halfway.  Apple definitely wants to push the tech onto people, but they are doing nothing towards making innovations towards bluetooth technology in order to make it a proper replacement. 

Everything else I pretty much agree with. 

56 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

The current state with regards to water resistant phones is sticking flimsy ass seals on the big holes and then glueing the front and back panels shut. Sounds good right, no its not. This method has MANY flaws and bitch I am not explain them all for u to just say "nope your wrong I'm right." So u best not bitch about this main one I know has a higher chance of getting ANYTHING across to u. 

So here it goes:

You're right that it's a crappy system, but not nessacarlly in the ways that you mention. 

58 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

While the glue used to seal the front and back of your device is pretty good with regards to water pressure, and the ageing of the glue over time. It will still fail as all will this method will just fail later as u can TELL from the Apple Watch and its 50m depth range. compared to what the 2-3 m one the bitch ass Phone method we are using has. Ya difference is easy to spot. 

The adhesive used breaks down due to fluctuations in temperature, this is why you use a heatgun to heat up the adhesive to break it's bond.  Furthermore, the apple watch uses adhesive to keep itself together as well, as can be seen from this teardown pic from ifixit.

That's not to say that apple's claims are false, but they are using the same system more or less then everyone else.

In normal operating environments, this adhesive should last for several years.

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

So with this phone method u have one major failure point. Which is of course the rubber gaskets that are used on the bigger but more weird shaped openings to the phone. While these are GREAT for splashes and fairly low water pressure environments as u can imagine of course. THEY AREN'T good for anything else.

I opened my galaxy s9, there was no rubber gasket, the USB port detects when there was a short in the connectors (which it assumed was from water) and disabled the port until the short stopped.

So, why is adhesive a bad idea?  Because it makes it much harder to repair the phone, you have to use a fucking heat gun to remove the back plate, which is not only dangerous to the electronics and casing, but dangerous to the end user if they are inexperienced, those things get over 1000 degrees.  Rubber gaskets would be fine for water pressure if the torque specification was high enough. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

BUT THEY DON'T so stop thinking that. All they being Samsung did was stick a gasket on the actual jack module.

Samsung did not do that, I already told you, they detect a short, and disable it until the short is gone.

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Again I swear u guys dont read. Whatever tho.

 

JUST BECAUSE the transitioning technology we have now sucks in some ways. THAT DOES NOT mean its not worth it push that technology to its fullest form. What would your smartass have the forsight to SAY "hey u know the first ever silicon based storage method for thing, YA its pretty shitty compared to hold punch method we are using right now. Lets get rid of it and focus on WHAT WORKS"

Let's use your logic against you.  Wireless power is a thing, so let's remove AC power outlets from all future housing and replace it with wireless power. 

Until the technology is mature enough to fully replace the older technology (which in some cases it will never be) we should still have the option to use old technology.  But, dongles do exist, so you can still use old technology with the phones without headphone jacks. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

The fact u can't see this obvious flaw in your logic is appalling at the least and at the worst its good because I'm happy u were never in charge of directing the market.

We would be in the stone age by comparison to today if us enthusiasts were in charge. 

 

This serious RESPONSE by this guy shows that point EVEN more then I could ever imagine showing. 

Your argument has the serious flaw that we should throw out perfectly functional technology because it's old, hell, wireless audio is nothing new either, have you ever heard of the FM radio?  That's decades old, still being used, and is the basis of bluetooth headphones.  If everyone used your logic we would be in the stone age.

1 minute ago, TheReal_ist said:

I love how even when someone is objective in nature. U KNOW how I am the LITERAL opposite of the mainstream people I talk about . Therefore verifying I have vested interested in both the Casual idiot along with the picky fuck that is the enthusiast.

 

But hey U SURE seem to more objective then a person coming from my background. So go ahead bud.

I honestly have no clue what you're saying right now. 

I'm honestly not sure what to think about this topic, it honestly sounds quite degrading, but whatever. 

Let's start with your first point.  You state that the 3.5mm audio jack is obsolete, while it's old, it's quite ubiquitous.  It has stood the test of time, as a reliable, simple, and cheap connector.   Meanwhile wireless/bluetooth requires batteries for your headphones, a AMP/DAC to be built in the headphones themselves, increasing cost, is subject to wireless interference, has a delay (which is fine for music, but is quite noticable in games and even video) among other disadvantages, and what's the advantage?  No wires?  And you call that an upgrade?  Clearly, for some people, they are willing to make that tradeoff, no wires for them takes the highest priority, but that's not the case for everyone. 

Now that we've established that there are pros and cons for both technologies, let's ask ourselves why apple decided to remove the headphone jack.

There are a few reasons, but saving a few bucks is probably not one of them.

https://www.amazon.com/Lsgoodcare-Connector-Terminals-Nuts-3-5MM-Headphone/dp/B013AP77T8/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=1O1MNE3ZYTBGN&keywords=headphone+jack+solder&qid=1553823499&s=gateway&sprefix=headphone+Jack+sol&sr=8-5

Here's a pack of 10 headphone jacks for 11 dollars. 

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1699?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4fHkBRDcARIsACV58_FjUi2m-tLyoLu8pkEKdG52RDmLuAZGqvgqFC-9jhvBlTBGQNJIR7oaAlKOEALw_wcB

Here's a headphone jack that's even able to be used for breadboards, and that one is less then a dollar, but look at this.

Quantity discounts.  Apple still probably buys thousands of headphone jacks for their other products that still uses the jack, so apple probably gets much better prices then even that.

So if it's not about the money, then what is it about?  Some people have said that it takes up a lot of space on the PCB.  Well, below is a picture of the Samsung Galaxy s9.

I circled the headphone jack, it definitely uses up space, but not that much.  But that's one of the more realistic reasons. 

It has been stated that the headphone jack was removed to make the phone more water resistant, but Samsung doesn't seem to have a problem with keeping the headphone jack and making their phone water resistant. 

Perhaps the onboard AMP/DAC saved apple some money, but I don't see the onboard speaker sharing that AMP/DAC.

So let's get to your claim, that apple is pushing technology forward.  Apple, a company that has lobbied against third party repair, blames their consumers for not using their products right when actual flaws are brought up about their products, and has compromised the durability and longevity of their products in trade for aesthetics wants to push technology forward?  Give me a break.

The headphone jack was probably too thick for their future phone plans, I remember seeing a D shaped headphone jack patent by apple several years ago, so that's probably the most logical solution, the jack is simply too big for their upcoming phones.  I personally don't like it, because it's compromising functionality for aesthetics, but I don't give a shit either, because wonderful things like this exists. 

2 minutes ago, Arika S said:

going to guess this is to compete with the Intel NUC line? needs to come with a case though

Not really, while it could be used in a similar fashion, the arduino compatable pinout makes this board suitable for robotiics, cnc, automotive, and other hardware integration. 

6 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

You where probably writing te above when it was posted. Better OP though in my opinion.

Well, I reported my post and it's still here, sooo.

1 minute ago, SlimyPython said:

Already done

Oops, didn't see it.

https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-20-radeon-rx-graphics-card-ray-tracing-gcn-architecture-rumor/amp/

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AMD Navi 20 GPU To Be Featured on Enthusiast Grade Gaming Graphics Cards, Features Enhanced GCN Architecture and Ray Tracing Performance Equivalent or Faster Than an RTX 2080 Ti

First off, this is a rumor, so take it with a grain of salt, but if it's true, it would be a very good thing.  Nvidia's RTX GPUs are a bit overpriced in my opinion, and a healthy dose of competition may help reduce prices. 

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So starting off with the Navi 20 details, we first have the alleged Ray Tracing support and to be honest, I think it’s very likely that AMD would introduce their own take on Ray Tracing, especially when Crytek recently demoed their first ray tracing demo based on their CRYENGINE on an AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 graphics card. AMD would like to support Microsoft’s DXR API and provide a more open-source ray tracing feature support as they have done so with many other technologies in the past, e.g. TressFX, Freesync, OpenCL.

I think that's important to note.  If AMD comes out with a GPU that supports their own implementation of real time ray tracing, it probably won't be Nvidia's implementation.  Which makes sense, Nvidia has a track record of not wanting to share their technology.

Just in case anyone that sees this doesn't know about the Crytek real time raytracing demo, here it is.

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But we have to take into consideration that AMD’s Navi 20 GPUs will be launching a year after the Navi 10 mainstream parts. So that puts the launch to around 2020 which is still pretty far away. At the same time, NVIDIA states that they don’t have any plans to rush to 7nmright now as they can achieve much competitive performance to watt figures on 12nm FinFET process so it’s possible that NVIDIA could be aiming for the enhanced 7nm+ or 5nm node, completely excluding the 7nm process off their tables.

That's something to keep in mind though.  Nvidia may have something a decent amount more powerful a year from Navi 10's release, so even if it performs better then the 2080ti, that might not mean that it outperforms Nvidia's current flagship at the time.  Still, if it's not that far off from Nvidia's current flagship, it may keep their prices from being too unreasonable. 

5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

It's definitely not for everyone, and one certainly needs to go into it understanding the risks.  Having said that, I generally avoid risky campaigns, opting instead for ones that seem more certain.  If I'm on the fence about it, I'll typically pledge at a low amount, so I don't risk losing much if it all goes wrong.  Even in cases where the product releases, it's not always as envisioned from the campaign marketing.  To date, I've only had one KS that delivered both on time and exactly as promised, Battle Worlds: Kronos by King Art Games (a very underrated studio in my opinion, I recommend checking them out).

If I had a bit more disposable income then I would probably do it, but I just can't justify it with my current income. 

43 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

We tried to get Udoo to increase the eMMC to 64GB, and they did seem to listen by adding it as a stretch goal, unfortunately the goal wasn't met so we're stuck with the 32GB.  Having said that, it does support SATA, M.2 SATA (2260) and M.2 NVMe (2280) for expansion, so there's plenty of options to add additional storage.

I would have preferred if they took hardkernel's approach with their odroid lineup.

An EMMC slot that allows you to put however much EMMC storage that you want.

That would also reduce the base cost of the UDOO BOLT by not nessacarlly needing EMMC storage with the bare bones board.

46 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

That's the only reason I backed them, as I typically shy away from hardware crowd funding campaigns.  The last one I backed never came to fruition, and I was just out $47 (which is a shame, because I really liked the concept).  This one seemed a fairly safe bet given their track record.  Unfortunately, they also have a track record of going beyond the original delivery date and not maintaining proper communication with backers.  Still, it's closing in on the end now, so all that's left is to wait in eager anticipation.

That's why I don't participate in kickstarter or other crowdfunding campaigns, there is always a chance that you will never see the product, and you will probably not get a refund. 

31 minutes ago, ActuallyMediocreOC said:

Maybe jsut as a PC for a younger sibling or something but its solid enough I wouldnt mind doin some wacky things with it

It would probably do very well as a light PC for a younger sibling, no proper way to add a GPU down the line though, again, you could perhaps install a GPU through the m.2 slot, but that's hardly optimal.

The arduino compatable GPIO means that it should be able to do everything that an arduino can do, but hopefully with a much more powerful CPU backing it.  It may be a good board for CNC milling.

3 minutes ago, ActuallyMediocreOC said:

I was thinking more for things like crazy projects, like fitting a fully functional desktop into a gumball machine with candy themed rgb

I wouldn't use an SBC as a desktop replacement due to the lack of expandability.  Mini ITX is plenty small enough if I wanted to go small form factor. 

The UDOO BOLT may make a good vehicle dash computer though, low voltage and whatnot.  The lattepanda alpha has a wide voltage power header meant for lead acid batteries, so that particular single board computer may be the best bet for that application though. 

I have my eyes on the odroid h2 due to it being able to emulate Gamecube games, a 3D printed Gamecube mini sounds like a fun project. 

So yeah, I have ideas other then a desktop replacement. 

6 minutes ago, porina said:

For the average LTT forum visitor maybe, but if you take the bigger picture it could be enough for a lot of basic use cases. Look at the cheapest laptops, they have similar.

And the biggest complaint of those laptops are that there isn't enough space to install anything, and that it's necessary to use the micro SD card slot if you want to store anything locally.  That's with the Windows laptops that use 32GB-64GB EMMC storage.  The chromebooks seem to fair better in reviews when it comes to available storage space.

8 hours ago, WereCatf said:

UDOO has already kickstarted several similar boards before, I see no reason to worry here. As for being late.... well, I always say that one should always prepare for at least a 6 month delay in any and every Kickstarter-project. Only a fool expects the originally-planned schedule to stick.

I knew that UDOO had other products, but I wasn't aware that they kickstarted before.  I suppose that does make them a safer option.

8 hours ago, justpoet said:

This would make a great linux personal server sitting at a relative's place for remote backups and the like on an attached HD.  I might even be able to find an older large HD case that I could put this and a couple 3.5's both in.  Please post back up when this is actually available to the public, not just kickstarter.

I'm personally interested in it myself, so I'm gonna keep an eye out for it.

8 hours ago, porina said:

Windows 10 has a compact mode which it picks by itself when it detects a small OS drive. So it is definitely possible to have a Win10 install on 32GB. I have an older generation nettop which also has 32GB internal storage with Win10 on it. Even major OS updates can be installed, although it requires you have a USB stick to work as temp space. Of course, that doesn't leave a lot of space for... anything else, but it is workable as a basic system. 

I would argue that for the vasr majority of people that's too small.  I suppose that you could put everything else on an external drive.

8 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Ever since i heard of this thing ive wanted one. Only thing i would want from it is a couple of small PCIe connectors.

More robust PCIe connectivity would be nice, again, you can adapt the m.2 to a PCIe x4 slot, but designated PCIe slots would be nice.

3 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Yeah, they ship this week....but only to the first 300 backers on a certain tier (which I, sadly, am not a part of despite spending even more money than that tier required).  Still, I have high hopes for it and am really looking forward to playing with Linux and Proton on it.

You'll probably get yours rather soon then.  I tend to not participate in crowdfunding campaigns, but when it becomes a product that the masses can purchase, I will most likely get one.

22 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Would it be enough to run CSGO on 1080p@60fps?

The V1605B can play Overwatch at 720p 60FPS.  So probably?

12 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

I wonder how expensive this will be.

Lowest configuration will be 229 dollars.  The upgraded CPU will probably tack a decent amount on to the cost though. 

16 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

Hell, it would make a fantastic media center pc (connecting to services like Netflix or Plex). Wish it had 10 gigabit tho.

The lattepanda alpha is a popular Plex server option, the odroid h2 can be used as one as well, but it can't stream to as many devices simultaneously. 

The h2 also has 2 gigabit ethernet ports. 

As far as 10 gigabit, the cheapest available 10gb cards are about 100 dollars.  That extra cost would be prohibitive for the intended price bracket, especially since most people won't take advantage of it.

You may be able to add a 10gb card through an m.2 adapter.  Such as this one.

It was originally meant for miners, but people have used it to expand their PCIe devices. 

21 minutes ago, Schnoz said:

I hope it will ship with a heatsink attached. It would be a pain to have to find a proprietary cooler for it once you get it.

I'm pretty sure it comes with a heatsink, that would be nice if it was standard PC heatsink spacing, but I don't think so.

Single board computers come in all shapes and sizes, from the Raspberry pi, to the odroid h2.  While there are several differences between all of them, they usually have all of the nessacary components, or at least the essential components to operate all in a single PCB, thus the term "single board computer".

A new addition to the rather large (and loosely defined) family is the UDOO BOLT, which is a single board computer that will have an embedded Ryzen CPU.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/liliputing.com/2019/03/udoo-bolt-single-board-pc-with-ryzen-embedded-starts-shipping-this-week-crowdfunding.html/amp

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AMD’s Ryzen Embedded line of processors are based on the same architecture as the Ryzen chips that power laptops and desktops. 

So don't expect the same level of performance as the desktop CPUs, but this may be one of the most powerful single board computers on the market. 

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The UDOO BOLT is a 4.7″ x 4.7″ single-board PC with support for either a Ryzen Embedded V1202B processor with Radeon Vega 3 graphics or a Ryzen Embedded V1605B chip with Radeon Vega 8 graphics.

First off, let's talk about the form factor.  While I could talk about how small that is, I think that showing would be better. 

4.7 inches equates to roughly 120mm.

So if you have a 120mm fan lying around, you can roughly judge the size, which needless to say, is quite tiny.

Now let's talk about the CPU options.

Both of those are low power, both of them having a 15w TDP.

The V1605B is the same exact CPU that the upcoming Smach Z is using, which seems to play most modern titles at around 720p at 30-60FPS, which for such a low powered CPU, is rather impressive. 

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UDOO says the system can power up to four displays with resolutions up to 4K thanks to its dual HDMI 2.0 ports and dual USB 3.1 Type-C ports. There are also two USB 3.0 Type-A ports, and the system features Gigabit Ethernet, a headset jack, an IR receiver, Arduino-compatible pins, and other I/O connectors.

 

It comes with 32GB of eMMC 5.0 storage and supports SATA hard drives or SSDs as well as M.2 PCIe NVMe solid state storage. And there are two SODIMM slots for up to 32GB of DDR4-2400 RAM.

While this won't be a proper desktop replacement for gamers, it could serve that purpose for general use, the Arduino compatible pins are what's going to interest tinkerers though.

32 GB of EMMC is too small for a Windows installation, but it should work with most linux distros.  There are SATA ports for HDDs/SSDs though, as well as an m.2 PCIe slot, while you would traditionally think to put an SSD there, you are able to hook up an external GPU to the lattepanda alpha (another powerful single board computer) with an adapter, and I wonder if the same thing could be done here.  Strapping on an external GPU and PSU (since the GPU needs to be powered) kinda defeats the purpose of the small form factor though. 

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The developers of the UDOO BOLT raised over $600 thousand through a Kickstarter campaignthat launched in May, 2018 with the goal of shipping the device to backers by December of that year.

That didn’t happen, but in an update posted to the campaign a few days ago, UDOO notes that the system has passed all necessary certification tests, and the first 300 units should ship to early bird backers of the campaign within days.

And now the elephant in the room.  This is a kickstarted product, that's not nessacarlly bad, but kickstarted projects tend to have a rather bad reputation of not delivering, this product was already supposed to be shipped out last year, and it's almost April. 

However in the grand scheme of things, 1/4th of a year isn't the end of the world, and it seems like the early bird backers will get the first batch.

So not available to the general public yet, but that will hopefully change in the coming months. 

And now for an opinion piece from me.  I have recently gotten into single board computers, and this interests me for several reasons. 

First off, I don't think that I have ever seen a Ryzen single board computer, and second, this is a lot of power in a small form factor.  The most powerful single board computer currently is the lattepanda alpha, which I already mentioned briefly, but that board has some limitations, soldered in RAM, no SATA ports, etc.  It's a great board, but it's limited in expansion, while that makes it very thin (as well as smaller then the UDOO BOLT footprint wise) it limits what you can do with it. 

Furthermore, the GPIO on the lattepanda alpha can only be controlled by the on board ATMega32u4 microcontroller, which connects to the CPU via serial interface, further limiting what you can do with the board. 

So my hope with the UDOO BOLT is if it gives similar, if not greater CPU performance without the shortcomings of the lattepanda alpha. 

On 3/17/2019 at 9:25 AM, poochyena said:

I'm kinda worried about ray tracing. All the demos I have seen have made everything look like freshly polished chrome. Its over done/exaggerated. I feel like future games are going to look like this to show off their "new ray tracing technology"

Reminds me of when bloom was excessively added.  The term "brown and bloom" was created for a reason.  I remember when Nintendo decided to add bloom to their Wind Waker HD remake, and it kinda ruined the cel shaded look in some parts. 

Although I find the raytracing less annoying then excessive bloom in my opinion.