Rexper

On 6/22/2022 at 12:12 AM, jonnyGURU said:

Yes.  They're very common these days.  It's to bypass the inrush current.

Then the PSU has some other means of limiting inrush current. An NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient) thermistor is the most common means.  Newer safety requirements now require the bulk cap to discharge with every power cycle, so this puts more strain on an NTC if you power cycle a lot.  And with newer efficiency requirements, they have to use more efficient means, and an NTC is less efficient, so they use the relay to limit inrush current and still meet those efficiency requirements.

How would the mechanical relay "bypass" inrush current?
I've always thought the relay was just to bypass the NTC thermistor once the caps have charged. This would be to increase efficiency, and to cool down the NTC thermistor so its ready for the next power cycle.

I think what's happening is your washing machine is drawing a big inrush current. This inrush current momentarily causes a drop in your AC voltage. It looks like your computer is on the same circuit as your washing machine. They should probably be on seperate switches.

If your old PSU was shit then this brownout could've affected the PSU performance, which would've affected the lifespan of the GPU.

An online/line interactive PSU W/ a good PSU, like your current setup, should be fine.

4 hours ago, StableBoy said:

Clarrification on wether 1000 Watts on 120v is the Same as 240v which is the typical AC wall outlet except the Americas and Japan.

Linus, only you have the power to prove to the world, all you need is a combustion engine's car battery, an Inverter (Capeable of the 240 VAC) and a power metre on the AC outlet.

That's been tested on power supplies. A lot. Just read a PSU review or cybenetics report.  Efficiency is a tad better on 240V, inrush current is at least double on 240V.

You suggest using an alternator / charger -> 12V battery -> 12V to 240V inverter? Why not just an AC power source or transformer...

5 minutes ago, Mayrice said:

I see. That does seem troubling. I assume this issue can be mitigated with a UPS?

The UPS can keep your system on during some brownouts. It'd also give you time to shut down your computer safely.

I'm guessing it wouldn't be much of an issue unless your power drops out often. Also, try avoid flicking off the PSU / disconnecting from mains.

If you get a lot of brownouts then a UPS would be a good idea.

2 hours ago, Eugene28 said:

nothing to worry about, its just less than 17 ms from awakening from the sleep..

You are thinking about the hold up time. The hold up time affects how long the PSU can last with the input power switched off. The hold up time is kinda low in this PSU, but that's not what OP was asking about.

The PWR OK signal is the power good signal. It's the signal the PSU outputs that says if it's power delivery is, well, good.

What Ari's tested in the review is the 'PWR_OK inactive to DC loss delay'. Intel requires atleast 1ms, whereas Aris measured -0.2ms, to which he calls the PWR OK signal "fake". What does this mean?

Imagine your computers running, and your AC power suddenly drops out. There is some power stored in your PSU caps (about 11ms worth), but eventually the PSU voltages will go out of spec and DC output will stop. The PWR OK should go inactive before the voltages go out of spec.

If there is no DC output, would you say the power is good or bad? Obviously is bad, but as the review measured -0.2ms on that PSU it means the PSU is saying no DC output is good (for 0.2ms).

For a fraction of a second, whatever is using the PSU sense wires (motherboard) thinks the power supply is feeding it good power when there actually isn't any power.

In the end, your computer components could be damaged whenever your AC suddenly drops out.

That is my understanding.

All the power the CPU consumes is converted to heat. So a CPU at 60W produces half the heat as a CPU at 120W.

The 3700x does not use 65 watts. Under full load w/o PBO it uses 90W and thus produces 90W of heat.
The 2700x uses 105W at full load.
 

What you're missing is efficiency. A 100W (max) CPU may only draw 40W to get equal performance of a 65W CPU that's running at full load.

3 hours ago, K_BadAtPC said:

I just have a few questions about PSUs. First off, what's the difference between the corsair RMx and the Corsair RM? Secondly, what's a good cheap 850w power supply?

 

The RMx uses in-cable capacitors. They don't really help anything and just make cable managing harder. The RM doesn't have these.

I don't think Newegg sells any PSUs with the Euro plug. They're like $5 anyways.

2 hours ago, Gamerboy1996 said:

Yes idk about power cord, how to get european one? 

Wow, so most of higher end power supplies can use from 100V-to 240V huh? nice, to be honest i want to buy corsair coz i  want all corsair build, Are RM 850 W 80+ Gold power supplies good?  

Does Newegg even ship to Armenia? If you order from the US Newegg, it'll probably come with a US plug.  

If it doesn't ship with Euro plug then search around local shops for a "C13 cable".

Corsair RM PSUs are great. 850W overkill for an RTX 3060 though.

The Asus ROG Strix has specified input voltage as 100V-240V. That will work in any country so long as you have the right power cord.

7 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

30 series cards have huge transients, so while the 3060 Ti might consume a max of 206w average, it will likely peak for a split second at over 300w. There's a reason the minimum recommended unit for a 3060 Ti is 750w, though you can usually get by with a 650w unit.

 

It's the same way that if you do that math with a 3080, it uses 350w, the 5600x uses ~100w (easier math), and the rest uses ~50. Good luck running that system on a 700w PSU without shutdown issues. 750w is about the lowest you can go for that system, and you need a pretty great 750w in order to not have power down events. That 550w isn't that great.

Here is a review showing the power transients of the RTX 3060 ti. It can peak up to 320w.

Again, how does that add to near 550w.

Good quality PSUs can handle those transients now anyways, without them triggering protections.

11 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

and 550w is pretty borderline for a 3060 Ti.

The RTX 3060 Ti consumes max 206w.
The Ryzen 5 5600x with Pricision Boost Drive consumes 93W.

The rest might use 50w.
How could 550W be borderline?!
 

Ignore any software/bios PSU voltage reading. They are inaccurate. You'd have to use a multimeter if you want to know your PSU voltages.

1 hour ago, AzowiX said:

So what is your advice here? replace it or not?

 

Seeing it's already 4 years old, I recommend replacing it with a good quality PSU.

That Antec hasn't been properly tested from what I could find, but we do know what the internals look like.

For example, https://www.techlegends.in/antec-vp500pc-review-a-worthy-budget-gaming-psu/

I'll do a brief analysis here:

Has an MOV which is a nice (protects from input voltage spikes).

Cheap bridge rectifier without a heatsink... Don't expect that to last long.

Bulk cap is very small. I doubt hold up time meets Intel specs.

Capacitors are pretty cheap too.

Primary topology is double forward, and secondary uses group regulation. Probably poor electrical performance in modern systems. Don't know much about its protections.

Overall it's a cheap and outdated design.

You only need a 450w/550w PSU. You want quality, not wattage can you link a webstore you're usinq

The green label is completely different from the yellow label Antec Atom B. Really wish people would stop referring to that tier list when someone asks for help.

You can see the 12V rail on the green Antec Atom has max wattage of ~550w. This is indicative of DC-DC converters on the secondary side. It means it probably has better decent voltage regulation in modern systems.

With that said, Antec doesn't specify over temperature protection (which can prevent further damage if the PSU fan dies), only 2 year warranty, and I couldn't find any reviews or internal photos.

Better to go for a more well reviewed PSU. That EVGA B5 is pretty good. For about the same price I'd go for the fractal design ion gold, except it's out of stock.

I would go for the Be Quiet U9.

be Quiet U9 review

MWE V2 review

The MWE V2 lacks an MOV. This is the component responsible for protection against voltage spikes in the mains.

Both are better than the Corsair CV.

It looks like EVGA changed their box design for the N1. No worries there.

Here's a review of the PSU: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-650w-n1-power-supply-review

If you haven't used it yet, you could return it and get a better PSU.

It's not terrible, but definitely not suited for any modern computer that needs 750w. Not even for mid range gaming computers.

If you post full system specs and budget we can help find a better PSU.

9 hours ago, Ryan829 said:

Yeah. He could probably find a dirt cheap used non modular corsair/evga 550w psu and throw that in there though. Probably would be safer too. OEM power supplies are notoriously bad 

OP already has one of those "dirt cheap EVGA/corsair's", if not better (EVGA BR). Why would anyone swap with another one?!

What do you mean by OEM PSUs? The EVGA BR wouldn't have come from the Dell Optiplex.

@Tashipirin

450W is without a doubt enough watts for a GTX 1650 system. That system would consume only about 150W at full load.

The EVGA BR is fine for your system in terms of quality. Here's a review.

If your max load is 400w why are you looking at 750w power supplies?

Those voltage readings are wrong. Ignore them.

To check your PSU voltages use a multimeter.

Intel specifies the PSU voltages should be within +- 5% of the rail's norm. E.g. 11.4V to 12.6V.

Here's a German review of your PSU. The only one I could find that also tests the protections.

Its voltage regulation is pretty bad, it is possible your voltages are going out of spec.

It's 12V OCP and OPP protections don't really work. It's got OTP but not implemented well.

The "group regulated" topology your hearing basically means it probably has poor voltage regulation in modern computers, which your PSU definitely does.

10 minutes ago, PeteyPete said:

I know, that’s why I looked up Igor‘s review, he does incredibly in depth analyses from my understanding, and yes — The 3070 does spike to way higher than TDP, but still only to 305 Watt.

Yeah, they're very in depth.

His test shows 370w spikes (1-5ms in length) on an aftermarket RTX 3070.

Even if everything in your computer peaked in power at the exact same millisecond, your PSU would still handle it.

The RTX 30 series cards exhibit very large power spikes. These spikes are so quick that most reviewers don't even see them with their testing equipment. They are also so high they trip protections on some PSUs (especially <750w units.. Though, this is more an issue for the RTX 3080/3090.

Your PSU would probably work fine. If not, protections would safely shut it down. You can worry then.

The efficiency and lifetime argument is a myth. The price you spend to get a higher wattage PSU so it's running at "optimal efficiency" with your PC isn't even covered by the efficiency savings.

But those myths still float around which is why we see such high wattage recommendations.

2 hours ago, Eugene28 said:

Go for antec its made by seasonic 

No, go for the Corsair it's made by CWT.

Point doesn't make sense, nor does it help.

I thought the Seasonic platforms didn't handle the transient spikes of the new GPUs well, compared to Corsair RM/RMx.

Internally, the Antec HCG is a seasonic Focus Plus. Here's a review:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/antec-high-current-gamer-850w-psu,5578.html

A couple of their samples died during protection testing, but hopefully antec/seasonic corrected that issue.

Otherwise the Corsair RM has better cables and is quieter.