mihapiha

It's not about the class of boards, it's about the design. Yes the Rampage VI Extreme is the same, but it looks awful and its RGB are super annoying. It also doesn't offer 2x 8-Pin for the CPU, which for a higher OC on multiple cores I'd like to see. It just doesn't get me excited at all. The Strix X299-E is just a more "reasonable" compensation, because I sort of was just looking for a quick solution as my system was starting to die on me a couple of days ago. I've always had high-end gear and I didn't plan on going with a "mid range" 1151 socket or AM4 socket now. It is not a small investment in money, so it is worth considering all options. My CPU's tend to always cost around 500 Euro and up... Even the last AMD I had was the dual core was the top tear Athlon 64 FX-60. However you did make a really good point for the Threadripper just there. It is still being optimized, and properly improve for a few percentage points. I am now leaning much more towards AMD's TR4 solution, I must say.

Your advice is much appreciated and I would like to make sure you understand, I haven't made up my mind. I am still torn; very much so. The TR4 Build I'm looking at ist the following: - Asus ROG Zenith Extreme - Corsair Vengeance RGB DIMM Kit 32GB (DDR4-3200 MHz) - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X - EK Water Blocks EK-FB ASUS ROG ZE RGB Monoblock Total cost locally: about 1.750 - 1.800 EUR Alternatively I was looking at a X299 core system: - ASUS ROG Strix X299-E Gaming - Corsair Vengeance RGB DIMM Kit 32GB (DDR4-3200 MHz) - Intel Core i9-7900X, 10x 3.30GHz - EK Water Blocks EK-FB ASUS Strix X299-E RGB Monoblock - EVGA Pro SLI-HB-Bridge, 60mm (due to the new MB PCIe layout) Total cost locally: about 1.750 - 1.800 EUR Alternatively, I could get the 8-core i7-7820X or the 8-core Threadripper 1900X and save a couple hundred EUR. And the third option I see is a pretested i7-7820X from Der8auer which I know I'll be able to run at 4.9 GHz. And let me tell you why I'm torn: The Zenith is just such a sweet MB that it actually makes me really thrilled, and I know I'll have that for years to come. And with Threadripper it just makes more sense going with the 12 core over the 8 core, especially with that expensive MB. It also has 2x 8-Pin CPU power connectors, which means it will be able to handle OC and future CPUs much more easily. However, that is a banging productivity and rendering foundation, and not really a "gaming" setup. Singe threaded performance won't be much beyond what I have now, maybe even lower than my 4930k @ 4.4 GHz. At least that is my main concern. The X299 makes much more sense gaming wise, however is yet again, Intel. And after I think more than a decade I do want to switch, especially because AMD is competitive. The recent Intel news in terms of security aren't good, nor is the fact that I need the damn 10-core CPU for 44 lanes seem reasonable. The MB doesn't even remotely get me excited and the new Rampage's RGB is just annoying. I know I can run that system for probably 3 years gaming wise, and probably I won't change much on it for the next couple to 3 years and then replace the core components again. Also proper memory support can't possibly be an issue @ 3200 MHz with an Intel CPU. I'd love to have the Zenith MB, with the single core performance of the 7820X wihtout it being an Intel CPU, with all the annoying crap that Intel has. Basically as soon as the Ryzen 2 comes out and hopefully allows clocks to 4.5 GHz, I will be more than happy. Either way I will not buy a CPU with a low core count anymore and I wan't to disable HT/SMT for 24/7 use, something I can't do with the 6-core 4930k I've been using now, without significant changes in performance.

Good points. Actually I don't have too many reasons apart form Gaming. And there is hardly anything I do which takes advantage of my system other than gaming. I don't do editing or rendering or anything like that. For the productivity crap I do, I couldn't tell the difference between a 4 core and a 12 core CPU. The benchmark which made me consider Intel over AMD was Civ 6: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-threadripper-1950x-cpu,5167-5.html My current CPU needs about 21 seconds for that AI Benchmark. 19 if I turn off HT. That game loves high frequencies apparently, and the idea was getting a very capable CPU and because I hardly ever need more than 8 cores for gaming, I'd deactivate HT. A Core i7-7820X could be overclocked past 4.5 GHz with my cooling (I hope) and with HT off I could improve the round time from 21 down to around 15 seconds, which would be nearly 30% faster. And that does feel like money well spend and me actually noticing a difference in gameplay. The TR4 CPUs are at around the 20 seconds to maybe 18 second mark with SMT turned off and an overclock around the 4 GHz, which doesn't really make it that much of an improvement. However it would be so nice to switch to a TR4... Indeed the Ryzen 2 and especially newer Threadripper generation will run on that MB, so I could change parts much more easily. Also the TR4 has no PCIe lane limitations, which is something Intel just doesn't want to provide unless you pay premium money. That is the big big plus point for any AMD rig. But I'd also have to worry about the possibility that the newer Gen will still be quite a few 100 MHz behind Intel, which really sucks. And who knows whether these CPUs (which are high-end) will be resellable in a few months time when the newer gen comes out. If you spend premium money on a MB would you buy a cheap used CPU? Ideally My rig will hold up for a few more months, but I am legit torn between the two systems and I cannot find the right solution. I really don't play any other game that utilises the processor that much. I only know that No Man's Sky, which I also play on a regular bases (even after +300h) won't run stutter-free with HT turned off. That means 6 cores + 2 GPUs for a game that poorly optimized is also no good, and I think it will benefit form additional cores. I tell you if I could push the AMD CPUs to 4.2 GHz to 4.5 GHz than I'd absolutely favor the AMD TR4 over Intel. With the short-comings of AMD in terms of OC potential I am not sure if an TR4 would be justified right now.

I didn't know that the cables could die on me. But because the fan connected to the MB didn't spinn and it didn't post, I suspected a short circuit somewhere. Luckily I had a spare 24-pin cable to test my theory, and even luckier that it actually proved to be the reason for my instability and merely replacing it, did the trick. But the scare was legit, and I have to have a solid plan A in place if that thing actually dies on me. Thanks for the compliments. I did build it back then. I build that thing in 2009/10 because it went through a few evolutions... The finished result looked amazing, but you had to pick the angle... I didn't have sleeved cables. So I bought extensions. I had also 3x Radeon HD5870 before switching to the GTX 480s. The initial idea was using 2 loops with a red loop for the AMD cards and a blue loop for the Intel CPU, which was the weirdest looking tube-mess I ever had... It then improved somewhat with the graphic cards and with all blue tubing, and the new GPUs. But still it didn't look that amazing from the outside in: I also added a MORA radiator in order to cool the graphic cards which sits behind the case. But if I was really careful with the angle of my camera I could an image worth looking at: But that rig did teach me a lot and I was much cleaner the next try I took my time building the computer which core components I am now planing to replace. I must have had the case and most of the water cooling quite a few months before buying MB or anything like that. I wanted it to be as perfect as I can can get it done, and it is still performing well, that's why I find it quite hard taking it apart and replacing it with something if it isn't going to kick ass. The water cooling on my current rig also cost about 1.000 EUR, so I feel a little weird putting some mid range stuff in there, which won't be able to take advantage of its two monsta 80 mm tick 480 radiators. That's why I'm debating (with people and myself) what to get. I feel like many people can't use a X299 and properly overclock it without cooling issues and the same is true with TR4. On the other hand an 8700k? It feels odd putting that much cooling for that as it's heat spreader is just crappy and it won't overclock past a certain voltage independent on the cooling, unless you change the thermal paste under neath and void your warranty...

Thanks for the offer, but I don't think it's wise to ship across the pond. Also the plan was to sell it to my sister so she'd use it as a secondary computer. But yeah, I told her €400 for MB, CPU and memory. I'm just so relieved that my PC seems to still be running without crashing....

Opinions of others are much appreciated, because it makes you consider other options otherwise ignored. It indeed is a very recent development. I had the issue of my system crashing randomly for a couple of days to three days, however not realising it being a development the first couple of times it happened every 6 to 8 hours. Yesterday it was really bad though, with the system crashing every 20 minutes, independent of load. So I started trouble shooting and looking for the cause of that issue. I still have my fingers crossed that I may have found the issue. The 24-Pin cable seems to have an issue. I ordered (years ago) the Corsair slaved modular cables for my Corsair AX 1200i PSU, so I still have the original 24-pin cable. With the original cable, there are no more crashes ... or at least none since yesterday. Indeed, I tend to upgrade my system every couple to three years, and I have set the money to do that once again, however, I have the hardest time finding something worth upgrading to. Since January 2014 my core components remain unchanged, which for me is really a long time. I initially started this topic in the hopes of finding a solution or getting a suggestion which may intrigue me. I still thing my computer parts are worth some money and I thought I could resell them for somewhat decent amount of money before they die on me. So the last few days have been really scary, because I it appeared as if I wouldn't have been able to resell them either...

I haven't considered the Z97 option. Maybe worth the smaller investment, because I'd only need MB+CPU and no memory. I'll look into that. That does sound very AMD Fanboy-ish indeed. I am looking at reasons how to justify AMD, because I do like what the Ryzen has done for AMD and competition is always good. Unfortunately, due to the lower clock-speeds, specifically for gaming in the high-end sector, I cannot justify investing more money into a TR4 build, if a Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz is basically just as expensive of a setup, however better for gaming...

Rather than answering those questions, I seem to have run into some issues with my rig. It just shuts off at a random point and won't post without a CMOS reset. And I'm really worried now because I put everything into stock and let it run in the BIOS and I just watched if the temperatures went up. Everything remained cool, but the system shut off again. The fan connected to the MB won't start spinning without the CMOS reset and it won't even post an error message. My fear came true it appears. My system is getting old and the danger of it just dying on me increased since yesterday dramatically. I am stress-testing right now with the memory, hoping that a faulty memory module might cause the issue, but it doesn't appear to be the case. The only other thing I could test later today, is using secondary 24-pin and 8 pin cables for the MB. But if that doesn't help I will have to buy a replacement MB/CPU and memory kit... I was really hoping to wait for the next gen CPUs and MB's, but it doesn't appear that I will be this fortunate. If this those happen, it seems I will be forced to go with my initial idea of: - Asus ROG Strix X299-E Gaming - Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR4-3200 MHz 32GB - EK Water Blocks EK-FB Asus Strix X299-E RGB Monoblock - EVGA Pro SLI-HB-Bridge, 60 mm (because of the new MB layout of the PCe slots) - Intel Core i7-7820X, 8x 3.6 GHz Really the only thing I'm not sure about is whether I should invest more into that system and get a Core i9-7900X to avoid any lane issues. Also for the same money of the 7900X I could go with a Core i7-7820X @ 4.9 GHz from Der8auer which is pretested....

I appreciate the info. I must admit that I am trying to find reasons as an enthusiast to go back to the AMD system, which I haven't used since the first Core2Duo came out. It sucks so much though, that for gaming Intel is still king because of the higher clock speeds. Also, I feel my kick ass water cooling be really wasted cooling a Ryzen ATM. My AMD consideration actually was a TR4 build using the 1900X which is the 8-core CPU... But I cannot get myself to do it. In the benchmarks with the low clocks, I'd barely notice a difference. Hopefully with a Ryzen+, Ryzen 2 and a newer Threadripper clocking to 4.5 GHz it would be easier to justify. I haven't found a review yet demonstrating whether it's best to disable SMP on a Threadripper for gaming. I figure at 8 or 12 cores, you really don't need the double up the threads for gaming... going from a Piledriver architecture (FX-8350) to Skylake (i7-6800k) is a major upgrade; however I don't think that coming off Ivy-Bridge is that much of an upgrade, unless I could afford the 7900X which seems like such a waste of money for Gaming, just so I could get the 44-lane CPU... I also don't trust Intel to just come out with a new CPU gen without a new chipset forcing users to switch MBs too. That would be actually a small miracle. I know Crossfire/SLI are going out of fashion, but I still love it. If I have nothing better to do, I'd leave one or a couple of the GPUs mining or folding@home. The look of a few graphic cards is just priceless IMO. One of my favorite builds I ever had was the 3-way GTX 480 + GTX 460 for PhysX build I had years ago. I was a disaster to use on day to day bases, but I still like looking at the pictures of it. Isn't that amazing? Totally useless or justifiable and probably more stuttery than most other systems, but looking at it next to you on a desk was the high light. I just cannot imagine using one card and it really bugs me, that this trend is catching on. Gaming on 4k a second 1080 is actually quite beneficial, especially if supported properly. I know of the MB layout issue. I was looking at the carefully as it would require me to purchase a new HB-Bridge... I use the Corsair 900D so the fact that the layout is a little messed up isn't the main issue. The case does have room for 10 slots. The more annoying is the issue that the graphic cards wouldn't be aligned and that might make it look horrible. So far I always bought the high end motherboard every time, because you generally don't upgrade the MB on regular bases. On X299 I was looking at the Rampage VI Extreme. Yeah. It is not the performance making me want to move, it's its age. I fear for my crappy little overclocker and outdated hardware just dying on me and then getting a headache which could be avoided. I really hope the thing can hang on for a few more months without issues, so I can upgrade to something much more reasonable...

Rather than giving you a list, I figured the easiest is CPUz: https://valid.x86.fr/wjxmj5 Indeed I was very unlucky. I can't even hit 4 GHz with stock voltage and 3.9 GHz is it's boost. At 1080p I would assume that the higher CPU frequency is really beneficial, even more so than at 4k. The thing I noticed is, that you cannot use a 3-way SLI/CrossfireX without a 6 Core CPU at at least 4.2 GHz. At least that used to be the case years ago. I don't know whether that has changed much. The fact that I tend to use multiple GPUs really made me realize that I need more Cores than 4. However, I figure that at some point, at 8-10 Core CPUs you can really deactivate HT without loosing performance in a few games (i.e. No Man's Sky) I am not worried of my system dying either, however, it can happen now that it's quite past it's warranty. The bigger problem I actually have is the fact that all of it is Water-Cooled; meaning trouble shooting is a pain in the ass. Rebuilding it with new parts also means that I won't be able to use my computer for at least a week or two... So if it does die on me, it's a huge problem, while I can plan the replacement and change parts when I know I have a weekend off...

Two problems I have with the 8700k: 1. It doesn't seem worth investing in, if I remain with the same core count. This upgrade I think would still cost me around 1000 EUR, which I have a hard time justifying. I thought that this time around I'd hit 8 cores (or more) but disable the simulated threads (HT/SMP) because my gaming testing indicated a much smoother and faster experience if a Game can't utilize more than a hand full of threads/cores. For example if you deactivate HT for GTA 5 and Civ IV your FPS goes up and your round time in Civ 6 goes down. 2. I don't like the fact that it has so few PCIe lanes. I have two GPUs now, however it is not impossible (but rather possible) that I'm gonna move to 3x AMD again. I do have 2x 480 or 120.4 80mm thick radiators and I did like the look and the performance I had with the 3x R9 290Xs. Because of that I don't have a real issue cooling even three high end hot cards. Indeed, it's its age. Unfortunately I wasn't lucky with it either and I saw some much nicer overclockers and it kills me that it can't handle more than 4 RAM modules installed. It's memory controller is just too crappy. I bought a second 16 GB kit a year or so ago and had to resell it, because I couldn't make the 8 slot situation work stable even at stock MHz; never mind XMP. Lucky for me, the 16 GB I have now, is still plenty for most games and tasks I throw at it, but I definitely would like to go to 32 GB with a newer system. Another reason why the upgrade right now seems very odd, because the RAM prices are just ridiculous...

I disagree: I am not sure how much TR4 or Ryzen make sense for gaming, especially considering I'm coming off a 4930k. I do think that I would turn SMP/HT off with an 8 Core CPU or more, because my testing indicated that some games much prefer the single higher clock vs. HT. The problem was that with two 1080s my performance would crash in some games without HT. It is really odd... In some games my average and low FPS would jump nicely, while in others, my min FPS would fall to a very stuttery experience. It feels like 4 cores are nice for a singe GPU, but as soon as you have SLI/CrossfireX additional cores are really beneficial.

the 7900X feels really like wasting too much money on a gaming PC... But I do agree from a hardware point of view.... I just wasn't and still am not prepared to spend that much on a CPU...

It is odd, though. Usually a PC would hold up a couple of years to 3 years before a full system change might be necessary to remain high end. I haven't updated my rig CPU wise since January of 2014.... It feels like it will die any day now, although this is probably not true... I I was thinking the exact same thing. I can't seem to find a reason to update just yet...

Hmm... That is pretty much where I'm at indeed. 5 years seems very long for PC hardware and I do worry if could fail on me, which would be even more horrible. The M.2 SSD reason really doesn't bother me at all. I really highly doubt I will see any benefit in gaming moving from a regular SATA SSD...